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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-30-09 09:09 PM
Original message
"vivir bien — living well — food enough for all and living in harmony..."
From a report on Copenhagen by Ron Ridenour, including quotes from Evo Morales and other Bolivarian country leaders...

"At the press conference,...Morales posed the problem and the solution to it thus: 'The rich countries seek to divide the rest of us ... by offering crumbs of money. Mother Earth can’t be preserved with money alone. Europe’s food almost entirely depends upon petrol. What happens when there is no petrol? This dependency on fossil fuel is a threat to humanity, so we have to change the structures of food. It is a structural problem of two forms of life: one way of living is the way of over-consumption and waste, the way of luxury, of egoism and individualism-capitalism. The other way is vivir bien — living well — food enough for all and living in harmony with others and our Mother Earth, in solidarity and complementarily.'"

-----------------------

I think that these other remarks of Morales are also thought-provoking...

-----------------

"Morales: 'There is profound difference between their document (26 rich countries drew up a so-called `Copenhagen Accord')(2) and the peoples fighting for humanity and the planet. This group of friends led by Obama accept that temperatures can increase by 2 degrees Celsius by 2020. This will end the existence of many island states; it will end our snow-capped mountains. And Obama only seeks to reduce gas emissions by 50% in 2050. But we want and need 90 to 100% reduction, in order to save the planet...'.

"President Morales was referring to one of the five questions -- to be answered yes or no-- that he proposes for a global referendum on climate change. The other four are:

1. Do you agree with re-establishing harmony with nature, recognising the rights of Mother Earth?

2. Do you agree with changing this model of over-consumption and waste that the capitalist system represents?

3. Do you agree that developed countries reduce and re-absorb their domestic greenhouse gas emissions so that the temperature does not rise more than 1 degree Celsius?

4. Do you agree with transferring all that is spent on wars to protecting the planet and allocate a budget for climate change that is bigger than what is used for defence?"


http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/analysis/5042
(my emphases)

------------------------------

I especially like no. 4, since our government is wasting so much of our tax money on wars and massive and unnecessary U.S. military presence all around the globe. What are we doing spending $6 BILLION of our tax dollars on militarizing Colombia--a government with one of the worst human rights records on earth--and planning to spend yet more on SEVEN new U.S. military bases in Colombia, and an agreement that places NO LIMIT on the number of U.S. troops and 'contractors' who can be deployed there?

These and other war profiteer projects are draining our coffers, at a time of grave economic crisis and potential environmental catastrophe; they encourage the wrong solutions to every problem--the militarist solution, the solution of violence-- and they benefit global corporate predators, in their war games, their oil games and their "free trade for the rich" game. Our humongous military budget does not benefit the people of this country, it threatens the people of other countries and cripples our ability to face the greatest challenge that humanity has ever faced: global climate destabilization brought about by our own over-consumption and consequent pollution.

I think that we should cut our military budget by 90%, down to a true defensive posture, and get on with saving the planet and creating a world of fair trade, social justice, peace and--as Morales says--harmony with Mother Earth.
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naaman fletcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-30-09 09:13 PM
Response to Original message
1. Just curious..
Is there some example that you have of when humanity has lived with better fair trade, social justice, peace, and harmony with Mother Earth than today?
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-30-09 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. Whatever progressive and other advances that humanity has made,
it has not been enough to prevent our destruction of the planet--both its climate/atmosphere and the biosphere (the already catastrophic loss of biodiversity). Every civilization prior to our own--with the exception of some tribal hunter-gatherer societies that lived very lightly upon the land--has made the same mistake, all the way back to the Greeks and well beyond. Plato descried the deforestation of Greece and its islands and the consequent impacts of floods and mudslides. It has always been the same wherever you look--China, the Middle East, Europe, England, North Africa. Cities, harbors, ships, armaments, the manufacture of goods, eat up forests, and in modern times, have added vast pollution.

Our problem is the highly accelerated rate of industrialization and consequent pollution. I'm not saying that the pleasures and conveniences of modern life are bad. Refrigerators. Mobility. iPhones. All of it. It is what it is. It's what we've done, trying to make life better for ourselves and others. But we have made a grave and very possibly fatal mistake, that we MUST correct, or the human race is over. Fini. Kaput. We MUST stop polluting the planet.

And our western economic organization--capitalism--is most certainly exacerbating this crisis. It is a conscienceless system. It refuses any value except profit. The rich have organized this in such a way that we can't seem to change it--these everlasting corporations, corporations that can live forever, gobbling up land, wealth and power. It is those powerful entities that drive war profiteering and "free trade for the rich." No one controls them. We, the people of the U.S., certainly don't.

But the environmental crisis requires something quite different, and unprecedented--a collective human effort, on a global scale, that puts the survival of the planet FIRST. Profits are fine. I'm not against business and trade. I love it! I think the marketplace is a human NEED. But we cannot let it go forward as a blind force, unheeding of what are very likely fatal impacts.
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naaman fletcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-30-09 09:43 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. you said "And our western economic organization--capitalism--is most certainly exacerbating this"
Things were much, much worse in the former Soviet Union and Eastern Europe.

I am not arguing that we don't need to pollute less, and am arguing against using the environment as an excuse to reimpose the totalitarian economies that strangled half of the world 30 years ago.
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-31-09 06:14 AM
Response to Reply #6
16. My dear, will it really matter when you are freezing to death or burning to death,
or society has descended into barbarism because there is no food, whether the commies are coming to get you?

The danger now--a far, far, FAR worse danger than humanity has ever faced before--is mainly the fault of Corporate Rule, and, believe me, Corporate Rule is totalitarian and is strangling not just half the world but all of it, and all life to come.

The answer is DEMOCRACY--real democracy, not tyrannical corporatism. Why do you think it is that Evo Morales and Hugo Chavez spoke the truth at the Copenhagen conference, while "first world" countries hemmed and hawed, backfilled, lied, secretly drafted their own document, and served the monopolistic interests of the corporate rulers rather than addressing this catastrophe head on? Because "the will of the people" is listened to, in Bolivia and Venezuela. They in fact have far better democracies than we do! Their leaders are not hogtied by the rich and the corporate. They are free to speak the truth.

You mistake cooperation, socialism, social conscience, alleviation of poverty, humanism, respect for Mother Earth--for Stalinism! Do you know that anti-Stalinism is a major theme of Chavez's socialist party in Venezuela? It is a victory of our lying, disinformationist, corporate monopoly press that many people don't know this. Chavez is no more of a "dictator" than FDR was.

But, because you seem to have misinterpreted what I said, I will amend it this way. It is not "capitalism" that is greatly quickening the end of life on earth; it is predatory capitalism. Simple capitalism is merely a development strategy--a human system for pooling resources and organizing product manufacture and services. But what we have now is NOT simple capitalism. It is NOT a free, unfettered, fun, interesting, colorful, prosperous marketplace. It is a deadly system of CONTROL by the super-rich. It is characterized by big monopolies and the destruction of the rights, dignity and well-being of MOST of humanity.

If you set up a world, in your mind, that has to be either Soviet tyranny OR predatory capitalism, you miss quite a lot of solutions in between. One of them is real democracy, in which good ideas rise to the top--are not stifled by corporate monopolistic control of the media--and in which the needs of the many are well-balanced against the desires of the rich and powerful. People need strong government to protect everyone's rights, to PREVENT the tyranny of the rich--who have forever trampled on the rights of the poor, if they can get away with it--AND they need great freedom to pursue their own happiness, as Thomas Jefferson put it.

Just want to mention one more thing that most people--or rather, most north Americans--don't know, which helps put things in perspective. The Chavez government--which is strongly socialistic--created a sizzling economic growth rate over the previous five years in Venezuela--10% economic growth, 2003 to 2008, with the most growth in the private sector (not including oil!). This was the result of socialist policies--of spending on PEOPLE, bootstrapping the poor, promoting literacy and education, providing loans and grants to small businesses and coops, land reform (putting the best farmers--campesinos--back on the land, with an intelligent program of incentives, and without draconian land seizures from the idle rich), while implementing fair taxation and strong regulation of big and multinational enterprises. The Chavez government is NOT Stalinist. It is intelligent. And it operates entirely within the Venezuelan Constitution and the rule of law. It is NOT repressive. It is not predatory. It is extraordinarily democratic. And it has produced such hot economic growth that now they have to worry about inflation!

It is Exxon Mobil, Monsanto, Dyncorp and their ilk who are tyrannical, not the Bolivarians. And it is the corporate monopoly press that has twisted this around to its opposite (i.e., lied) in portraying these corporate tyrants as favoring "freedom" (i.e., freedom for the rich and powerful) and countries that exercise real democracy as "dictatorships" because they don't cater to the rich and powerful.

The solution to the peril we are in from climate destabilization will come from democracy--not corporate tyranny and predatory capitalism, which are causing vast pollution AND blocking remedies. I suppose one could imagine an absolute monarch ordering up restoration of the natural world, and enforcing it with death by hanging, as the kings of England once did, in protecting England's forests. But that is not likely in our world. And it has, in any case, been replaced by the "sovereignty of the people." "The people" are the sacred rulers now, and must act to preserve nature for all.

I remember reading some polls, sometime back, in which 70% to 80% of the people in the U.S. favored strong environmental regulation. Did they get it? No. Why not? Why did they get Bush and the Forever War instead?
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clear eye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-31-09 10:40 AM
Response to Reply #16
17. Thank you for this glorious, clarifying essay.
Edited on Thu Dec-31-09 10:44 AM by clear eye
I wish it were up on billboards in the major cities of the world.

Maybe you could find a way to get a collection of your DU writings published in book form, or have them reprinted as a column for The Nation or similar weekly?
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naaman fletcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-31-09 12:19 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. Of course, the "western capitalist" nations are the cleanest
While Caracas is not exactly a very clean city. So the point is that the whole thesis that Chavez somehow knows how to live in a clean world is BS. It's the western nations that are the cleanest.

Take a look at the 25 most polluted places. Not a single one is a capitalist nation. These are almost all places where guys like Chavez are friends with the crackpot leaders:

http://www.forbes.com/2008/02/26/pollution-baku-oil-biz-logistics-cx_tl_0226dirtycities.html
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-01-10 10:13 AM
Response to Reply #19
20. It's true that Caracas has auto pollution, but it's still a miniscule contribution to climate
destabilization. The biggest contributor is the USA, by far, with China a close second. And the USA has greatly contributed to China's pollution with "free trade for the rich." U.S. corps outsource to China and other countries BECAUSE they have no environmental or labor regulations. And U.S. corps have done nothing but undermine and sabotage environmental regulation here. Is the air in Los Angeles still highly polluted? Yes, it is. Are the redwood forests down to their last 5% of old growth and fast losing that final 5%? Yes. California's environmental regulations are under constant attack by global corporate predators, and Californians have lost significant environmental rights over the last decade due to that relentless and highly corrupt attack. California supposedly has the strongest environmental regulation in the U.S. That has become a lie, under corporate rule.

Bolivia has no pollution problems that I know of, and, like Ecuador--another leftist Bolivarian state--its constitution and its leaders hold Mother Earth ("Pachamama") to be sacred and are greatly influenced by indigenous culture in this respect. And the only pollution in Ecuador is Chevron-Texaco's massive oil/toxic dumping (the "rainforest Chernoybl," as it is called), which Chevron-Texaco refuses to clean up and compensate the indians for. Though Caracas has auto pollution, the Chavez government is learning because it is a responsive government, in which the indigenous and environmentalists have a strong voice. The government has halted several polluting/environmentally damaging projects in response to these voices.

Chavez's and Morales' point, at Copenhagen, was not that "third world" countries don't pollute. Some of them do. Their point was that "third world" countries CAN'T SOLVE THIS PROBLEM ALONE!

And if the U.S. had its way, the Chevron-Texaco's of this world would never, ever, ever pay for the massive damage they have done, and the U.S. military--one of the biggest polluters of all--would be enforcing "free trade for the rich" (free polluting for the rich, free slave labor for the rich, no rights or sovereignty for the poor or for any country) everywhere. The reason they hate Chavez is that he and his government, and the people of Venezuela, were the first in this hemisphere to declare their independence from U.S. global corporate predators, and are the leaders of this movement. If the U.S. had its way, the bloody-minded, rich, white separatists in Bolivia--who slaughtered some 30 unarmed peasant farmers in Sept. 2008, aided and abetted by the U.S. embassy--would reassert fascist white rule in that country. If the U.S. had its way, the richest man in Ecuador, a banana magnate, would be Ecuador's fascist ruler, and Chevron-Texaco wouldn't have a thing to worry about from Ecuador's courts. And if the US had its way, the fascists in Venezuela--whose first act in 2002, in their brief coup, was to suspend the Constitution, the National Assembly, the courts and all civil rights--would topple the elected government, again, and hand the oil back over to Exxon Mobil.

The U.S. corporate rulers have raped and plundered smaller countries throughout the last century. They have destroyed their democracies, time and again. They have created vast poverty and deliberately sabotaged the ability of smaller countries to address both poverty and environmental damage. And, more recently, through mechanisms like the World Bank/IMF and the WTO, they have tried to impose a global system of rampant exploitation that DIRECTLY ATTACKS all countries' environmental and labor laws.

I repeat, the answer is real democracy, and the U.S.--because it is not ruled by the people, because it is ruled by global corporate predators and war profiteers--DOES NOT SUPPORT REAL DEMOCRACY ANYWHERE, including here.

And I also repeat: Capitalism is not the problem. PREDATORY capitalism--the global corporate predators and monopolists who now control "western" policy--are the problem. The Soviet Union was a polluter, and also tried to cover it up. China--with its weird, hybrid, Stalinist communist/predatory capitalist system (--a system I really don't understand) is a big polluter, and also tries to cover it up. Communism, on that scale anyway, is obviously not the answer, as to this mortal threat to humanity from global pollution. (Cuba, on the other hand, has strong environmental regulations and is unpolluted--but Cuba is rather unique as to communist systems). But the kicker in all this is that, with the fall of the Soviet Union, western capitalists went nuts, and have consolidated their power, over us and others, in such a way that we here in the U.S. cannot break this tyranny (or haven't been able to, thus far), and the global corporate predators spawned from our shores--built of our labor, and our liberty, and our tax money, and our infrastructure--are now the biggest tyrants and the biggest polluters on earth and are killing the planet.

Venezuela, Bolivia and Ecuador all have mixed capitalist/socialist economies. They are not against business. They are not against trade. They are not against a healthy marketplace. All of them engage in business, trade and marketplaces. But they have learned--like many European countries have learned--that, a) capitalism MUST be tempered with socialism, if the best political system--democracy--is to succeed; and b) predatory, monopolistic, unregulated capitalism is huge destroyer of the environment, of workers, of society and of democracy.

It is FALSE to pose Soviet communism and the current predatory capitalist system in the U.S. as the only alternatives--for governance, or for solving the pollution problem that now threatens all life on earth. We need, instead, to foster real democracy here, in other countries and in international bodies. The U.S. is NOT doing that. It is DEMONIZING the very countries where real democracy is in progress, and allying itself, and FUNDING, putrid cesspools of fascism, corporate tyranny, rightwing death squads and vast toxic spraying of farm lands like Colombia!

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naaman fletcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-31-09 12:06 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. Funny you mentioned food shortges and power problems
As they are going on in Venezuela right now.
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-31-09 03:20 AM
Response to Reply #4
14. Thank you for this Op. I especially like Point four.
Edited on Thu Dec-31-09 03:22 AM by truedelphi
You can not be pro environment and pro war.

Armanents and the amounts of money that are spent on them literally are the difference between people starving and people eating.

Wars are unnecessary and those wars that have been fought in the USA since the sixties are simply for the profits of the MIC. And the MIC doesn't even care if we win them or not - they simply are an industry that continually demands that they be making and selling more weaponry and satellite systems etc.

I find it very curious that the amount of money that middle incomed and lower Americans will be forced to pay as penalties if they don't embrace the new insurance mandates come to one hundred and sixty six billion bucks, while Congress just approved 168 billion bucks for the war in Iraq and the expansion of war in Afghanistan.




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niyad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-30-09 09:16 PM
Response to Original message
2. k and r
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-30-09 09:27 PM
Response to Original message
3. K&R
Morales is right on the nose in his remarks.
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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-30-09 09:41 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. They are lucky to have such a wise leader. And on an international level so are we. nt
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leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-30-09 09:55 PM
Response to Original message
7. K&R
Thanks for posting this!
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-30-09 10:08 PM
Response to Original message
8.  Isn't it good to see how accessible Evo Morales is, and the others.
Clearly the real citizens are close to them, and they are open to each other. Sounds like dmocracy, doesn't it?

Glad to think of their slogan, "Change the system, not the climate."

Evo Morales words couldn't come at a more desperate time as the glaciers which supply what little water they have are disappearing rapidly, and the Bolivian ski lodge sits on a rock which hasn't seen snow in ages now, and never will, again. Even their greatest lake, South America's largest freshwater body is falling rapidly after eons of supplying water for Bolivians, income for for many various trades simply dropping and dropping constantly.

As Bolivia has very little polution, it's profoundly cruel, since they have done very little to degrade the environment.

Thanks, Peace Patriot. I hope there are enough conscientious people left to save some part of what was a beautiful environment for all living things.
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Dream Girl Donating Member (153 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-30-09 10:50 PM
Response to Original message
9. k&R
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amborin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-30-09 10:54 PM
Response to Original message
10. K&R
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-30-09 10:57 PM
Response to Original message
11. They are SOLVING problems in Latin America.
The recent populist reforms that have swept across Latin America gives me hope for The World.
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lunatica Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-30-09 11:00 PM
Response to Original message
12. Gracias Presidente Morales. Son palabras de un hombre sabio y inteligente.
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-31-09 01:35 AM
Response to Original message
13. Looking forward to the big steps the people of Bolivia will be taking in the near future.
Hope the old, racist oligarchy will never regain the chance to dominate the very people they refused to allow to even walk on the sidewalks their own taxes went to buy and maintain, as they did until 1952, when there was a revolution.

The vicious racism continues, but at least they can walk on the sidewalks almost everywhere in THEIR country.

Best wishes to the real Bolivians.
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Vidar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-31-09 03:32 AM
Response to Original message
15. Bravo Evo! Recommended.
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