Harry Reid says he has the votes for a public option, but not sure he wants one!!!

[defendandprotect]

Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-NV) says he has the votes for a public option, but he’s just not sure he wants one. Call Democratic voters in Nevada and ask them to tell Harry Reid to include the public option in health


http://action.firedoglake.com/page/content/warroom/

[chimpymustgo]

1. What an ASS. God, we've been PUNK'D.

[clear eye]

16. The constructive response to a post like this

is "Will do," not a whole bunch of wailing as though it's already dead.

On edit: Reid is on the fence; he hasn't said no, and an organization is making it possible for us to push him onto the right side. What more do you want?

[ddeclue]

22. Why should we ALWAYS have to push these clowns - including Obama!

[clear eye]

36. Why is the sky blue?

O.K., seriously. Most of the time we are asking gov't to do its prime job as a regulator to protect the mass of the citizenry against unfettered activities of the wealthiest and most well-connected. In these cases the outcome those interests want is the opposite of what the public needs. The special interests exert their pressure by trying to buy gov't officials. We exert ours by reminding them that they need our votes. That's the set-up. Nothing is free.

[tigereye]

165. that would be called democracy, I think

sorry, all these posts have made me feel a bit pissy.

[chimpymustgo]

80. I'll respond as I choose, and welcome you to do the same. I will NOT accept this bullshit bill, nor

will I refuse to acknowledge how we've all been played for fools in this sham process. I have called, written - and will continue to do so. We must KILL THE BILL.

[walldude]

163. Yeah because we haven't pushed yet

:eyes: Gimme a break, do I need to go down there personally and shove the public option up his ass? He knows what the people want. They all do. They are choosing to ignore it, probably because they live in a world where there are no foreclosures, everyone has great health care, and jobs, and people don't need to decide between food and medicine because their budget won't cover both.

[tigereye]

166. thanks!

:thumbsup:

Light a candle, don't curse the darkness

[HuckleB]

33. We may be getting punk'd by fdl on this one.

[LiberalAndProud]

41. Ya think?

But you know, if fdl says Harry Reid is obstructing, it must be true. Because we Dems are just noodles.

[WeDidIt]

44. They punk'd everybody over Kucinich yesterday

Why wouldn't they be punking us even harder over Reid today?

[Hekate]

139. I have a sneaking hunch you may be right--FDL/Hamsher isn't behaving too credibly these days. nt

[freddie mertz]

2. If only the PRESIDENT, bless'im, would step in on our behalf! nt.

[clear eye]

18. If only folks would go to the site and sign up to make calls.

Not sure if people are understanding the OP. FDL has set up a phone bank for us to call NV Dems to encourage them to contact Reid.

It's a little to early in the morning NV time to call as I'm writing this, but at 8:30am their time I'm going to start making calls. Either do it or don't, but don't call it dead before the push has started.

[freddie mertz]

24. I do! I have! I will keep doing it! I've been posting this stuff all week.

I am totally committed to the reconciliation fight.

[tigereye]

167. yes!

[WeDidIt]

58. Made calls all summer

I refuse to make any calls when Jane Hamsher says to call.

She's a fucking liar.

[Name removed]

3. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[clear eye]

19. No, but not hearing that his constituents want it might.

So please, stop talking as though you've already been betrayed, click on over to the FDL phone bank, and start making calls.

[el_bryanto]

4. When did he say that - the link isn't clear

The link does suggest that he should use reconciliation to get the public option, which suggests it is somewhat out of date?

Bryant

[clear eye]

5. Crossposting this on the Nevada forum.

Thanks for posting.

[madokie]

6. You really believe what you just posted as fact?

I coulda' I woulda' until I seen the link

[clear eye]

21. What she's posting is that FDL has created an online phone bank

to call NV Dems and find those who want a public option, and encourage them to contact Reid.

That's a fact.

[freddie mertz]

27. And it is a worthwhile effort we should applaud and support.

Say what you will about Hamsher, THIS is not something that should be incredibly controversial.

[WeDidIt]

56. Lying shouldn't be controversial?

Yeah,...okay.

:eyes:

[freddie mertz]

61. That is not what the link is about. It's about contacting Reid.

To pressure him to stand for public option et al.

We don't have to agree with everyone on everything to find common ground on particulars.

[WeDidIt]

63. IT'S A FUCKING LIE

She's LYING, and all she is doing is getting people to call Nevada voters and LIE TO THEM!

Fuck that shit.

Go ahead and call up Nevadans and lie to them. You're doing the world a good turn. The ends justify the means.

:eyes:

[freddie mertz]

64. Lie about what? nt.

[WeDidIt]

65. Reid claiming to have the votes for a public option but not knowing if he wanted one.

That is a lie.

[freddie mertz]

69. I seem to think it is a very old quote. But I don't really care...

It is a useful phoneline to use to call him and make the case in the 11th hour.

[WeDidIt]

71. Sure, lying is fine if you get what you want.

The ends justify the means and all that.

:eyes:

[freddie mertz]

73. I think you are straining here.

It's a phone bank.

[WeDidIt]

75. Right, to call Nevadans and say..

"Harry Reid says he has the votes for a public option, but not sure he wants one!!!"

Yeah. In other words, calling Nevadans AND LYING YOUR ASS OFF!!!

Sure.

Ends justify the means and all that.

:eyes:

[freddie mertz]

81. I never use scripts.

And besides, I'm not even going to call in Nevada.

I am using the link below it, to pressure politicians.

[defendandprotect]

There are 51 votes for Public Option . . . here's more on it . . .

Jon Tester Would Vote For Schumer’s Public Option: That’s 51
By: Jane Hamsher Friday October 9, 2009 10:46 am

Jon Tester
Jon Tester confirms to Chris Bowers that he’d vote for Chuck Schumer’s "level playing field" public option:

This pushes the Senate whip count to 51, even without Joe Biden casting a tie-breaking vote.

Since there are now finally 60 active, voting Democrats, it is possible to break any Republican filibuster. Hell, it actually only requires 51 votes to break a filibuster, if Senators were more honest about process. Further, if they didn’t even want to both with filibusters, they could always just go with reconciliation, since Tester now gives them enough votes even if Robert Byrd (who is opposed to using reconciliation for health care) defects.

Senate Democrats have the votes. No more process excuses. Pass the public option.

So there are now enough votes to pass a public option in the Senate. It may not be a great public option, but the notion that we "don’t have enough votes" just exploded. On the other hand, not one single member of the Democratic caucus who said they oppose a public option says that their vote will change with the opt-out. Nor have they admitted that they would take the historically unprecedented step and join a Republicans in a filibuster.

Somebody explain to me again why the veal pen is pushing the "opt-out cop-out" that gives the insurance industry such a big happy?

http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/10/09/jon-tester-would-vote-for-schumers-public-option-thats-51/

[Better Today]

96. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it still needs 60 to get cloture when the

revised bill come back from the House, right?

[HuckleB]

114. You are correct.

This is all about FDL pushing emotional buttons to get more traffic.

[defendandprotect]

134. Hamsher is after Emmanuel/Freddie-Fannie Mae ....if that's what you mean . . .

HOWEVER, it's only 51 votes to pass a bill --

You have to make them Filibuster ---

It's the information which comes out during the filibuster which forces them to

quit --

Make the Repugs say they are against Public Option/Health Care Reform --

make them say it over and over again!!

[Better Today]

143. They have said it, long and loud, what more will a filibuster do?

Furthermore, they're more likely to filibuster on the mandate aspect, which most Dems don't even like. So you're being way naive.

[defendandprotect]

154. They haven't been forced to actually filibuster . . . make them do it ...

[defendandprotect]

155. Well, why are we suppoting a "mandate" that Democrats don't want ???

[HuckleB]

173. In other words, the reality is not something you want to deal with...

... I'm not surprised.

[annabanana]

129. Yes.. And this would never fly with

LIEberman or the quisling dems.

[defendandprotect]

131. So you're not contesting that Dems have 51 votes for Public Options?

[Better Today]

140. I don't know if they do or not, what I'm pretty sure of is that it doesn't

make a hill of beans if it doesn't get past cloture.

[defendandprotect]

161. You have to fight -- first by making them actually filbuster . . .

Waving white flags and compromising at the drop of a hat won't get us where

we deserve to be --

[WeDidIt]

98. FDL is NOT a legitimate source

Sorry, you've got to do better than that shit.

[defendandprotect]

132. Obviously, not for those who don't want Emmanuel's feet held to the fire over Fannie/Freddie ...

and, in fact, see Kucinich's comments on that -- he's going to hold hearings.

I'll post what Kucinich said next time I come across it --

However, whether it's Hamsher or Kucinich or Nader who has been telling you about

this stuff for 40 years and more -- you eventually have to deal with the information.

Too many here who want TRUTH only if it's truth about the Repugs!!

[Better Today]

142. WTF, you have no position to clump the two and make such

broad statements. For example, I now have dramatically less respect for FDL, over the past weeks Hamsher has gone to places I just cannot support, and I see a lot of spin in her rantings. This does not effect my dislike of Rahm or his influence.

Seems you are exceptionally guilty of your last sentence.

[defendandprotect]

158. So you don't support an investigation of Freddie/Fannie and Rahm's role in it???

[Better Today]

170. You are not capable of reading what's typed and responding

without bullshit strawman one liners. People like you posting here make me very suspicious.

[defendandprotect]

179. Thanks for making yourself so clear . . .

"Speak so we may know you -- "

You're on "ignore" --

Bye --

[WeDidIt]

145. Funny, Kucinich said nothing at all about hearings involving Emmanuel

Even though Jane Hamsher tried to insinuate he had.

She's a fucking liar, and her site is as trustworthy as worldnetdaily.

If you want the truth, you most certainly will NOT find it at Firedoglake. They are all about LIES!

[defendandprotect]

159. True -- but eventually someone should get to it -- and I'd be pushing for it --

Fannie and Freddie have been corrupt cesspools for years, a place where presidents of both parties parked friends like Dennis DeConcini and Rahm Emanuel, giving them lucrative spots on the board of directors as political payoff. As government sponsored entities (GSEs) selling shares to the public, they operate like hedge funds that socialize losses and privatize profits. From the LA Times last year:

"This week ... news broke that until August, the lobbying firm owned by McCain campaign manager Rick Davis was paid $15,000 a month by Freddie Mac, one of the mortgage giants implicated in the current crisis (now taken over by the government and under investigation by the FBI). Apparently, Freddie Mac's plan was to gain influence with McCain's campaign in hopes that he would help shield it from pesky government regulations."
It appears they kept looking. The Democrats have been too intimidated by leadership to start looking into the utter corruption at these entities, but Kucinich just doesn't care.


This is the final part of the Hamsher blog at Firedog --

which I got in an e-mail from the Re-Elect Kucinich Committee --

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7367381

[babylonsister]

7. Anyone have a link to what Reid actually said, besides fdl? Thx. nt

[NJmaverick]

38. The tin foil hat brigade

and those lemmings that want to follow Jane off the cliff

[clear eye]

49. What cliff would that be?

Calling NV Dems to encourage those who want a public option to contact their Senator. I see no cliff here, not even a steep step.

I guess I'll risk it.

[NJmaverick]

52. The cliff of reality

making up fake headlines is a job best left to the National Enquirer and the Weekly World News

[EFerrari]

99. I can't find one. n/t

[Don Caballero]

8. He is the worst

When can he be voted out?

[madokie]

9. The people of Nevada is going to do that for us

looks to me like anyway as the polls I've seen shows he's in a heap of trouble in his re-election bid coming up.

[Don Caballero]

10. Who is running against him in the primary?

I would like to send some of my limited funds to their campaign. This Reid needs to go. He bent over for the Bush regime and is now bending over for the insurance/pharmacy industrial complex.

[laughingliberal]

46. No primary opponent that I know of

Looks as if he will be defeated by a Republican as it stands now. He has, however, faced very tough races in the past and won.

[Tesha]

121. Please understand that he's about to be voted out in favor of a Republican.

The only reason he's hung on is seniority, and no other
Democrat that we could pitch against him would have that
advantage with the Nevada electorate. Harry has sealed
his fate, and almost-certainly ensured his contribution
of "-1" for Senate Democrats in this upcoming election
cycle.

http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2009/dec/06/democrats-quash-mining-tax-bolster-reids-reelectio/

Someday, Democrats will realize that picking their Senate
leadership from among red-state barely-hangers-on is a
monumentally stupid, losing strategery (sic).

Tesha

[defendandprotect]

135. Why are we again seeing this reversal with NOT running Dem opponents . . .

Do we think everyone in Nevada is happy with Reid being "Repug Lite"?

And was anyone here at DU going to send Harry money for his campaign?

Anyone but DLC here, that is?

[newspeak]

168. Tarkanian may be the repuke

son of the UNLV basketball coach that was very popular in Vegas. I believe Tarkanian is a land developer, and I won't be voting for him any time soon. There are some others who are putting their hats in the ring. Just have to wait and see.

There are ads running here all of the time about how Harry has helped Nevada, but there are people who are disenchanted with him. I was up north a month ago and in one town I went through there were signs stating 'ANYONE BUTT REID." (notice the BUTT). Of course, up north is Cheney country, as I believe Cheney's sister lives up there and they are very pro-mining. I believe it was the north that gave us our dear Governor, Gibbons. Yep, it's the gift that keeps on giving. They voted for him after some money scandal came out-they voted for him when he allegedly attacked the young woman (it's amazing she looks like his mistress). So, I don't have much hope for Nevada. There are some progressive voters--we were kind of drowned out during the primaries by the clash of the giants "Obama vs Clinton." We'll have to see who throws their hat in the ring. I'm thinking maybe a progressive hooker (we do have all kinds of interesting people here).

[defendandprotect]

88. Evidently in Nevada they call Reid "Repug lite" . . .

and, personally, I've always felt betrayed by Reid and Pelosi --

from the first days of taking "impeachment" off the table -- and

after '06 failing to END the war -- and refunding the wars for 3 years!!!

There is actually video of Pelosi the day after the '06 eleciton acknowledging that

the Dems were elected "to end the war."

This is DLC leadership -- not what we deserve from the Democratic Party!!

[Edweird]

11. But but but 'political reality' and all that apologist bullshit.....

[cali]

15. lol. I love how people swallow something with no quote or link

just like hungry little guppies.

[Edweird]

32. Glad you're amused. Unfortunately, for a lot of people this subject is no laughing matter.

[WeDidIt]

50. Yes it is. Jane Hamsher is LYING

and you bought the lie.

[Edweird]

57. I don't know shit about Jane Hamsher. Don't care one way or the other.

But I damn sure know RW shit when I see it, and this bill is it. I also know betrayal when I see it, and it's happening right now. There is a shitstorm of backlash brewing.

[WeDidIt]

59. Bullshit

Obama's numbers amongst liberals continue to rise. Liberals are loving this.

Jane Hamsher, on the other hand, made up a LIE about Harry Reid and it got posted on DU.

You bought into a LIE.

[Edweird]

67. Mmmhmm. Liberals loving privatization? Liberals placing party over people?

Not likely. I have no doubt there are a few misguided souls, just like there are some 'free trade' supporters hanging around here.

Go sell your pro-corporate bullshit to someone else. I'm not buying it.

[WeDidIt]

68. The polls say what the polls say

DU is way off the mark overall on this one. Liberals favor this.

[Edweird]

86. This bill is RW garbage. No poll will change that.

As far as DU being 'way off the mark'... well, good luck with that. I was a lurker for years before I joined. DU is ahead of the curve and nails it 9/10 times. Believe what you want, I don't give a fuck. I will not support any more RW corporatist bullshit coming from a Dem administration.

[WeDidIt]

94. The only RW garbage I see

are opponents to this bill.

[Edweird]

103. Whatever works for you.

[HuckleB]

111. There are also ivory tower opponents, as in evidence at DU.

The danger of killing a bill that helps the people of the country appear to be the same regardless of the source of opposition, however.

[HuckleB]

74. Sorry, but you're the one placing your ivory tower over people on HCR.

Now that is what I call misguided.

:mad:

[Edweird]

87. Good luck with your corporatism.

[HuckleB]

104. Good luck with your fantasy world and BS labeling.

Your ivory tower is leaning.

[defendandprotect]

136. "Corporatism/fasicism" is now fantasy world and BS labeling . .. ????!!!!!

:evilgrin:

:rofl: :rofl:

[HuckleB]

174. What else is it?

If you're also calling me a fascist, I would like a clarification, so I can alert the mods.

Thanks.

[defendandprotect]

180. The fact that you don't understand corporatism/fascism is alarming . . .

No -- neither I nor the previous poster called YOU a "fascist" . . .

However, you're failure at communication and your ignorant certainty suggests

you should be on "ignore."


Bye --

[MadBadger]

78. And yet the same people cry about how Americans believe anything the MSM tells them.

[cali]

12. There isn't a link or a quote in that snippet from FDL

Anyone have a link for it?

[SemiCharmedQuark]

20. Maybe she's saying Harry Reid has 50 votes for reconcilliation?

:shrug:

I don't know. But I would bet money he didn't say 'I have the votes for a public option, but I don't want it!"

[cali]

23. looks to me as if she pulled that right out of her asshole

I can't find anything to back her up.

[WeDidIt]

54. You can say it. Jane Hamsher is a bald faced LIAR.

No ifs ands or buts on this one.

She blatantly LIED to get people to make phone calls for her.

She's no fucking better than a Republican.

[bvar22]

101. "I am not a crook"

"I did NOT have sex with THAT woman".


"I did NOT campaign on a Public Option".

[Tailormyst]

13. We were taken for a ride. 2006 and 2008- they sure fooled us.

I'm so fed up with all of them. I would love to find some sort of movement to really change things. So sick of being used and lied to. I feel like a fool for giving them my time and money.

[LiberalAndProud]

14. Is there another source?

I read on this board once that Ben Nelson would consider voting against cloture when Alito was confirmed to SCOTUS.

So you'll understand if I'm a little skeptical of the 60 votes claim. I call bullshit.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

17. I googled and found something *close-ish* but from Late August/Early Sept

Do you have a link to what was actually said?

[Nikki Stone1]

25. This means that neither Reid nor Obama nor Rahm wants a public option.

OR else it would be a no-brainer.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

26. Do you have a link to Reid saying this?

Because FDL doesn't and I can't find anything about it anywhere else.

[Echo In Light]

28. Is it not within the OP's source?

[SemiCharmedQuark]

29. Nope.

[Echo In Light]

I'll take your word as I haven't read it yet

[SemiCharmedQuark]

34. There's nothing *to* read really. It's two sentences:

"Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-NV) says he has the votes for a public option, but he’s just not sure he wants one. Call Democratic voters in Nevada and ask them to tell Harry Reid to include the public option in health care reform."

And then a phone number to call.

[HuckleB]

35. There's not much to read.

It's very short.

[clear eye]

55. Hi--hope you'll make some calls no matter what he did or didn't say.

I've seen how you feel about this, so you'll probably want to take advantage of the opportunity FDL has offered to mobilize NV Dems in favor of it. Here's the link to the action: http://action.firedoglake.com/page/content/warroom/

[no limit]

30. When did making shit up become ok on this web site?

[NJmaverick]

40. good question, one the Jane supporters can't answer

[HuckleB]

31. No quote to back up fdl's claim.

It's great that fdl is pushing advocacy, but it's not good if the advocacy is based on BS.

Where is the quote to back up fdl's claim?

[NJmaverick]

37. FDL is now just making shit up

this is truly pathetic. We have watched Jane self destruct in front of the world:nuke:

[berni_mccoy]

39. They have NO QUOTE that Reid has made. Please validate this from another source.

[Teaser]

42. another post beamed in from Planet Hamster

they have their own facts there.

[WeDidIt]

43. I call BULLSHIT on this one

It's from Firedoglake.

I do not accept that Reid said this at all. I need a legitimate source for it, not Firedoglake. They fucked with my head over Kucinich yesterday and their misleading bullshit about his investigation, so I cnanot trust a word that comes from that fucked up site.

[shadowknows69]

45. Just to throw a little salt on our wounds Harry? WTF???

[WeDidIt]

47. Got a legitimate link to a quote?

Didn't think so.

[shadowknows69]

51. Just what the poster put in the header, so what? Has Reid ever shown backbone for us?

Or is it not being a good Democrat to criticize this long time DINO now like we all used to in the Bush years. Hey if it's from the mouth of one of our dear leader's you seem to believe it. Well I believe firedoglake. What's the difference?

[WeDidIt]

53. There is NO QUOTE at that link

There is a LIE.

Reid DOES NOT have the votes for a public option.

You have been DUPED by a lying Jane Hamsher.

She just makes the shit up now, and gullible people buy her fucked up LIES!

[shadowknows69]

70. It could have been passed with reconcilliation are you denying that?

Why didn't chessmasters Harry and Barack make that move?

[HuckleB]

76. What are you talking about?

Prove your assertion.

[WeDidIt]

82. Yes, I am denying that.

There were not the votes to get a PO through reconciliation.

There still aren't.

You need fifty + Biden.

At best, you'll get 48.

Feingold is not on board for it because it is an abuse of reconciliation to him.

Byrd is not on board for it because it is an abuse of the reconciliation rule HE WROTE!.

There are ten conservadems who will not support a Public Option.

So no, there are not enough votes for a pu blic option via reconciliation.

[freddie mertz]

91. All valid points. And we will never know, will we?

Another factor: the president seems to have wanted the broadest possible support for whatever he ends up signing, thus the persistent (and it turns out, misdirected) courting of Pubs like Snowe, Grassley, Gregg, et al.

I understand his motives here, but am not impressed by the final result.

[WeDidIt]

92. Reconciliaiton would have been extremely hazardous

and most likely would have failed for a variety of reason.

"You take what you can get" has always been how the Left has progressed this nation.

[freddie mertz]

97. Well, we may disagree on the last point, but I understand the larger one.

Let's hope for better results and less rancor among peers in the new decade.

Have a Happy one.

:toast:

[laughingliberal]

48. I'm skeptical. Would love to think this is true but highly doubt Reid has votes for a PO

Is there any source for the information?

[clear eye]

60. To my mind it's mostly irrelevant.

Whether Reid did or didn't say he has the votes, I think the WH would find them if the public option were in the final bill, because they've shown how much they want a bill. They'd horsetrade w/ Snowe and ride herd on Lieberman (he could lose his committee chairs), etc. The insurance cos. might even signal they want it b/c there'd still be more treats than tricks in the bill from their standpoint, which should get the Blue Dogs on board. Look, they gave Sanders the community clinics to get him to sign on. They'll find carrots for Nelson, Landrieu, & Lincoln as well, if they have to.

On edit: So starting at 8:30am PST, I'm going to take advantage of the FDL phone bank and make the calls. I don't plan to say anything when I call that I don't know for sure. (Haven't read her script, but I always alter phonebank scripts so that I'm very comfortable w/ what I'm saying. I seem to get positive responses that way.)

[freddie mertz]

66. I never use scripts either. Just use the phone numbers.

[laughingliberal]

84. I think the White House could always have gotten the votes for the PO if they had wanted it

I think they were the driving force behind making sure it gets in. I believe they had Snowe waiting in the wings to vote for the bill if any progressives had threatened filibuster. I also believe they would have traded something for her vote that would have made the bill even worse than it is already.

If people want to continue to push for PO, that is fine. But, I think the continued focus on it to the exclusion of focusing on many other things we need changed in conference is a mistake. Think about pressuring the House to get their version of funding and community rating models into the final bill. At the risk of heresy here, if the House version of PO made it in as weak as it is and the tax on benefits and the community rating model from the Senate are adopted this will still be a horrible bill. We would do better to get the House version of funding and their community rating model even without the PO. JMO.

[clear eye]

90. Please explain "the community rating model".

Though I agree w/ you, we can't always decide what people choose to mobilize around. Until I saw the phone bank, I didn't think anyone had organized any mobilization at all. I may change what I say from their script, but I have no control over what others say. Perhaps FDL decided that since the PO is the best understood of the important things missing from the Senate bill, that was what would give the best response. It wouldn't be very useful if the phonebankers plugged the most important provisions, but the listeners didn't understand them or get their importance and didn't call Reid.

[LiberalAndProud]

102. From where?

Olympia Snowe? Ben Nelson? Joe Lieberman? Which two of those three could have been pursuaded to vote for cloture on a bill with a PO? WHICH ONE?

I can guaran-damn-tee that one of those votes is not Ben.

[laughingliberal]

120. Since it can not be proven one way or the other, this is a waste of energy

I do believe the Blue Dogs will do whatever they are encouraged to do by Rahm. I think they would definitely have gone with the opt out for states option if the White House had pressured them for it. But I have no way of proving that and you have no way to disprove it. It is my opinion based on the behavior of the White House from the beginning of the debate and from the statement of Russ Feingold whose credibility is not in question for me.

[defendandprotect]

137. The legislation is meaningless -- or even less -- without a Public Option ...

[clear eye]

151. Ah! I did a little research & here's a translation for the terminology-challenged like myself.

Community rating model--when everyone in a plan (the whole community) is charged the same premium (not counting subsidies).

Revenue model--where the money is supposed to come from. In the House, part would come from a tax on the ultra-wealthy, part from fines on non-participating businesses and individuals, & the rest from Medicare savings, while in the Senate, what's not paid for out of Medicare & fines is paid for by a tax on the best employer health plans.

I think elimination of the anti-trust exemption for health insurance cos. is extremely important as well.

[defendandprotect]

89. Evidently, Jon Tester makes 51 votes for Public Option . . .

There are 51 votes for Public Option . . . here's more on it . . .
Jon Tester Would Vote For Schumer’s Public Option: That’s 51
By: Jane Hamsher Friday October 9, 2009 10:46 am

Jon Tester
Jon Tester confirms to Chris Bowers that he’d vote for Chuck Schumer’s "level playing field" public option:

This pushes the Senate whip count to 51, even without Joe Biden casting a tie-breaking vote.

Since there are now finally 60 active, voting Democrats, it is possible to break any Republican filibuster. Hell, it actually only requires 51 votes to break a filibuster, if Senators were more honest about process. Further, if they didn’t even want to both with filibusters, they could always just go with reconciliation, since Tester now gives them enough votes even if Robert Byrd (who is opposed to using reconciliation for health care) defects.

Senate Democrats have the votes. No more process excuses. Pass the public option.

So there are now enough votes to pass a public option in the Senate. It may not be a great public option, but the notion that we "don’t have enough votes" just exploded. On the other hand, not one single member of the Democratic caucus who said they oppose a public option says that their vote will change with the opt-out. Nor have they admitted that they would take the historically unprecedented step and join a Republicans in a filibuster.

Somebody explain to me again why the veal pen is pushing the "opt-out cop-out" that gives the insurance industry such a big happy?

http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/10/09/jon-tester-... /

[WeDidIt]

100. Using FDL as a source is as legitimate as using WND as a source

which is to say, it's not.

[defendandprotect]

125. Trying to kill the messenger isn't going to work . . .

we see the same thing over and again even when a Democrat is criticizing the

party . . . re reluctance to listen --

Nader has been telling us about the co-option of government and both parties --

the tyranny of both parties -- for more than 40 years --

Same with Kucinich -- he's telling you the truth about what is going on in the

Democratic Party -- and Democrats are holding their ears and trying not to hear it.

Doesn't change what is actually going on --

Attack the info -- not the messenger.

[WeDidIt]

147. The messenger killed her own credibility by joinging the TEABAGGERS

She's a lying sack of shit.

Kucinich isn't investigating Emmanuel, but Hamsher and her Firebaggers want you to believe that.

[laughingliberal]

106. Thanks. The OP was not clear how they were getting to the numbers nt

[WeDidIt]

107. So, to prove a statement from FDL only requires another statement from FDL?

:crazy:

[laughingliberal]

112. Much as White House talking points seem to be enough for others

I simply asked how they arrived at their count. I made no statement whatsoever about the credibility I attached to it. But, by all means, continue to bash anything FDL without further investigation.

[HuckleB]

116. When a source has proven itself to be untrustworthy, why continue to push it?

Why should people have to investigate to see if every claim from a dubious source has any accuracy. After a source has bashed you on the end with BS over and over again, isn't it time to find a more legitimate source?

[laughingliberal]

118. I would note I feel the same way about Rahm's message discipline team but I still verify

the talking points coming from there without dismissing them out of hand.

[HuckleB]

175. So imaginary BS is the same as a crap web site?

:rofl:

[defendandprotect]

133. Couldn't be Hamsher's pursuit of Emmanuel that's bothering you by any chance?

[HuckleB]

176. So projection is all you got to defend Hamsher's repeated deceit?

:eyes:

Seriously, if that's all you have, then you really need to challenge yourself.

[defendandprotect]

126. Why don't you work on disproving that there are 51 votes ?

Attacking the messenger doesn't work --

[WeDidIt]

146. Hamsher's s a lying sack of shit

I don't have to prove shit about Jane Hamsher. To know she's lying, all you have to do is see her lips move or see her by line on any article.

Or see anything at all on FDL.

[laughingliberal]

156. Very persuasive. I feel exactly the same about Rahm Emanuel.

But I still don't dismiss what I hear from him without checking some other sources. I don't take anyone's word for anything. By the same token I do not, automatically, dismiss information out of hand, either. Killing the messengers has never seemed the most judicious tactic, IMO.

[defendandprotect]

162. Kinda the way I feel about Emmanuel and the DLC . . .

[HuckleB]

109. So 51 (assuming that dubious number) votes get you past cloture?

:shrug:

[laughingliberal]

119. I think you are responding to something I did not ask, perhaps? nt

[WeDidIt]

144. There is one cloture vote to get to reconciliation

under the rules of the Senate.

[laughingliberal]

152. I'm just confused by people answering a question I did not ask.

All I asked was where Jane felt Harry had the votes for a public option. I got an answer and I dropped it. I am far more concerned with pushing the House to stand firm on their revenue sources and communitiy ratings model at this point than I am with spending energy on the weak PO the House bill contains which is a lost cause IMO.

[HuckleB]

177. Link?

[HuckleB]

178. It's a part of the equation.

Just because you didn't ask something, doesn't mean the real world won't intrude.

[ProSense]

62. He has the votes? The bill is in conference. What the hell is calling Harry Reid going to do?

This link is probably months old. Why wouldn't it include Pelosi? In fact, Pelosi is the person who needs to stand firm.

[freddie mertz]

72. I agree that it looks like an old quote.

But the substance is that Reid might have the votes for a PO under reconciliation.

Hey, it is a VERY long shot, but the fight is still worth it, maybe even more so as the hour draws nigh.

[ProSense]

77. "But the substance is that Reid might have the votes for a PO under reconciliation."

The bill is in conference.

[freddie mertz]

79. Right.

Got that.

[WI_DEM]

83. Wouldn't Lieberman, Nelson, etc fillibuster it?

[defendandprotect]

127. Make them filibuster . .. stop folding every time they threaten it -- public would react . . .

[defendandprotect]

85. Let's find out . . ..

What they have specifically re what Harry Reid has "said" on this . . .

www.FDLaction.com

However, there is this . . .


Jon Tester Would Vote For Schumer’s Public Option: That’s 51
By: Jane Hamsher Friday October 9, 2009 10:46 am




Jon Tester
Jon Tester confirms to Chris Bowers that he’d vote for Chuck Schumer’s "level playing field" public option:

This pushes the Senate whip count to 51, even without Joe Biden casting a tie-breaking vote.

Since there are now finally 60 active, voting Democrats, it is possible to break any Republican filibuster. Hell, it actually only requires 51 votes to break a filibuster, if Senators were more honest about process. Further, if they didn’t even want to both with filibusters, they could always just go with reconciliation, since Tester now gives them enough votes even if Robert Byrd (who is opposed to using reconciliation for health care) defects.

Senate Democrats have the votes. No more process excuses. Pass the public option.

So there are now enough votes to pass a public option in the Senate. It may not be a great public option, but the notion that we "don’t have enough votes" just exploded. On the other hand, not one single member of the Democratic caucus who said they oppose a public option says that their vote will change with the opt-out. Nor have they admitted that they would take the historically unprecedented step and join a Republicans in a filibuster.

Somebody explain to me again why the veal pen is pushing the "opt-out cop-out" that gives the insurance industry such a big happy?



http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2009/10/09/jon-tester-would-vote-for-schumers-public-option-thats-51/

[WeDidIt]

93. FDL is not a valid source

especially when trying to prove some bullshit spouted by FDL.

[HuckleB]

105. Indeed.

And yet how many DUers continue to push their BS?

[Ed76638]

108. Here's some friendly advice.

Instead of shitting on Jane Hamsher and FDL, why not focus on the real villains of health care reform.

:-)

[WeDidIt]

110. The Republicans are the real villains

and Jane Hamsher isjoining with them, which makes her a real villain, too.

FDL is not a valid source for anything. Prove their bullshit with links to legitimate sources.

[HuckleB]

115. +1

[Ed76638]

117. THE REPUBLICANS ARE IRRELEVANT

Dems have a 60 seat majority in the senate.

Who do you think the rube voters are going to blame for the corporate mandates?

It's going to be the good guys like Russ Feingold, Barbra Boxer, and Chris Dodd(is he a good guy)

[HuckleB]

113. This OP is from FDL. It's BS.

So how about calling BS for what it is?

That's not shitting on anyone. That's trying to live in the real world, and make actual changes to that world.

[defendandprotect]

128. So -- if this were true -- you would be quite shocked?

Let's see . . . do you remember Pelosi 3 years ago confirming that Dems

were elected to end the war? That's on video!

What happened in the last 3 years except she took impeachment "off the table"

and has re-funded the wars for 3 more years!!???


Or would you be shocked that Reid would not want a public option?

[berni_mccoy]

149. You won't get 60 to vote for cloture on a PO. 51 votes is not the number.

[Ed76638]

95. The public option has a majority of votes.

It's just 4 worthless, bottom-feeding, decrepit fucks who are blocking it.

[brooklynite]

122. Unrec'd for lack of detail

All this is is a one sentence statement that then asks people to write in and complain. No details or sourcing of the comment, which I can't find referenced anywhere else

[uponit7771]

123. It's OBAMA'S FAULT DAMMIT!!!

[The Backlash Cometh]

124. Oh my God.

Can it possibly get worse? We win, and instead of getting the spoils, all it does is force "our leaders" to remove their masks.

Jesus Christ. We are so manipulated as a country by false prophets.

[Hekate]

130. This is from Firedoglake. Doesn't Jane Hamsher have a pretty big ax to grind? A discredited ax?

Just asking about the source of this information, is all.

Hekate

[defendandprotect]

138. Hamsher is after Emmanuel re Fannie/Freddie Mae ... if that's what you mean . ..

Same with Howard Dean, Kucinich -- and Nader -- and others --

If it's anything that exposes the corporate-Democratic Party, then they want

to kill the messenger.

But without Dean, Kucinich or anyone else -- the message of whose side the Dem leadership

are on is quite clear!

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

148. Harkin said a week or so ago that there were "barely" 50 votes...

So it's possible that one or more Senators has come around. The problem, as has been noted upthread, is that there are 60 votes required for Cloture. So we're back to the same issue we had last week.

Now a few people have suggested that we put the Public Option in the final legislation and force the Republicans to kill it through the filibuster. Demand that they come out and, in the presence of their constituents, put their hand on the knife in the back of this legislation.

There's something to be said for that. But I don't know if anybody would be better off by our getting no legislation through this session of Congress.

[Sheepshank]

141. Why not speak your mind

directly to the person in the OP? http://reid.senate.gov/contact/index.cfm

Time for Dems to come together as a froce rather than whine on the sidelines!

[guardian]

150. WTF? the world has gone crazy. n/t

[karynnj]

153. This is patently untrue

There is no Republican voting for the bill even without it. Looking just at Lieberman, he is very clear that he is a NO on this - therefore no 60. I assume that this is either a quote from months ago or Firedoglake is lying. Either way it is dishonest.

[Kid Dynamite]

Ah and political fantasy football rings in another new year

As though the needs or desires of US workers hinge even a little bit on what Harry Reid wants

[LostInAnomie]

157. Unless he's got 60 of them, it doesn't mean shit.

And, he doesn't.

Hamsher is full of shit.

[walldude]

160. Uh he has great health insurance so who gives a fuck what he wants?

So a bunch of people with the best cheapest health care in America is deciding that "they" don't want a public option. ARRRGGGGGHHHHHHHHHH!!!!

[Kltpzyxm]

164. F HARRY REID!!!!

How dare he hold back health care reform that the American people want.

[PopSixSquish]

169. While There May Indeed be Fifty-one Votes in the Senate for the Public Option

there have to be 60 votes for cloture before the vote on the bill can take place. Let me repeat that one more time and in ALL CAPS.

THERE HAVE TO BE 60 VOTES FOR CLOTURE. This has always been and will always be the case unless the filibuster/cloture rules are changed.

Jane Hamsher probably correct in her assesssment that 50 Democratic Senators plus Joe Biden would vote for the Public Option but unless there are 60 votes for cloture, these 51 folks WILL NEVER GET TO VOTE ON THE PUBLIC OPTION.

She is conviently ignoring this fact as have many posters on DU.

Why do you think we went through the whole fandango on Opt Out/Opt In or expanding Medicare? The Senate was trying to come up with an alternative to get 60 votes for cloture when Schmoe Liberman decided to take his ball and go home because Anthony Wiener liked the expanding Medicare idea. Or has everyone forgotten the month of December?

60 VOTES TO END DEBATE AND KILL THE THREATENED FILIBUSTER and then 51 votes for the actual bill.

Sweet Jeebus...

[johnaries]

171. When did he say that? There's no source and no date.

Obviously, he didn't have the votes. FDL fucks-up AGAIN.

[mzmolly]

172. Is there a quote or some actual evidence of some kind?

:shrug: