Who Benefits by Bashing the Liberals of the Party?

[laughingliberal]

I have been following the feeding frenzy on the more liberal members of the Democratic party with interest. For the sake of full disclosure, let me say I am liberal on most issues facing our country. I am to the left of many but not all Democrats. I am also pretty good at taking a pragmatic view when warranted if it does not sacrifice too much for too little gain.

I am reading posts here on DU where those perhaps not as far left are just bashing the bejeezus out of liberals. Any article posted that supports the people who are not happy with the HCR bill is met with vitriol, contempt, personal insults, sarcasm, name calling, etc...
I understand. People feel strongly about their opinions. Liberals in the party, right now, are questioning if they still belong here. We have been feeling sold out and we are very suspicious the President we helped elect has double crossed us on health care. We read reports where his CofS has called ads we raised money to run in support of a public option "fucking stupid." We read that this CofS considers the left insignificant and feels there is much more to be gained by throwing us under the bus and insulting us than to try and reach any agreements where we get some of what we thought we voted for. We notice the President does not seem concerned about this and have to assume his CofS does this with his blessing. If not, we reason, why is he still there or why has the president not moved to show some indication we are still valued members of his coalition?

So, we come to DU and we express our outrage at continuation of conservative policies. We are dismayed and fearful of policies which continue to support the destruction of the working and middle classes to benefit the wealthy and powerful. We question the lack of spine in our leaders and we indicate we do not appreciate being sold out in the name of campaign contributions from the very entities that have harmed us economically and physically through the years.

We are met with mean spirited attacks. We are told we are helping to elect Republicans if we question the actions of Democrats who act like Republicans. So, we are insignificant in the eyes of the administration but, it seems, we are to be blamed if we don't show up and vote for a D in the next election and the R's gain power.

All this brings me to one question. How is beating us up here supposed to convince us to support the Democratic party? Human nature being what it is people will eventually just pack up and leave if they get treated that way long enough. Hell, I quit talking to my own parents when I realized nothing was ever going to happen to convince them to quit being vile and mean spirited towards their children. I thought I did not owe them continued relationship if they could not afford me common courtesy in their interactions with me and I did not see the fact that they spawned me as reason to decide otherwise. That is where I am with the party at present. What I really want to know is-does anyone think beating me about the head for my opinions is the way to keep me in line? And, if not, who is going to benefit if people manage to so thoroughly alienate the liberals that they really do pack it in and leave? I ask the liberal bashers, as they have repeatedly asked us, do you want Palin for president?

[cali]

1. it works the other way around too.

And no, not every criticism of the HCR legislatio is met with the response you claim, anymore than every piece supporting it is met with such venom. There are people on both sides of the divide who rush to do such things. I prefer to think that they're in the minority.

I'm always perplexed by what I see as gobsmacking obtuseness when I see posts such as yours- from either side of the divide.

[laughingliberal]

3. I realize that

There is plenty of blame on both sides. My problem, however, is that those doing the liberal bashing are expressing great alarm that the liberals may not support the party and may, by omission, help elect Republicans. This infers they are quite concerned that Democrats remain in power. My question is whether discounting, belittling, minimizing our issues is likely to produce more support from us or less? And if less (which is likely the case) who benefits from these attacks on liberals?

edited spelling

[G_j]

5. have fun with President Palin

:sarcasm:

actually, I was recently accused of being a card carrying GOPer.
I see your point.

It only takes a few though, witness the concerted attacks on Kucinich lately.
I believe progressives are still in the majority here.

[cali]

6. people have differing opinions here. It's that simple.

And another thing to keep in mind is that the vast majority of people posting here identify as liberals and or progressives.

[laughingliberal]

8. I see that they do. I guess I'm getting at the vitriol towards those of us who voice opposition

to some of what we see the current administration doing. Perhaps I should have said those of us now called the 'looney left." How are the tactics of insult, etc...supposed to help this situation and who is going to benefit from alienating us from the party?

[tomp]

60. what they call themselves and what they are...

...might actually be two different things.

[27inCali]

49. too many children on both sides

getting in the way of serious grown-up talk.

[xchrom]

2. Recommend -- follow the money? Nt

[NoUsername]

59. Bingo. n/t.

[jaxx]

4. It's nobody's job to convince you to support the Democratic Party.

You're here, at the DU, so it's accepted that you do. If you can't, then that is a problem you will have to discover your reasons as to why, and decide what you are going to do about it. Complaining about being berated by berating isn't the answer.

[laughingliberal]

7. Not the point of my post, at all.

I have every right and no problem leaving if I feel it is too taxing to be here. What I am, specifically, addressing here is the posters who are bashing the liberals over and over and saying they are concerned our lack of support will help elect Republicans. I am wondering why pushing us further away is considered a good way to meet their stated goal of keeping Democrats in power.

[jaxx]

14. If that wasn't the point, then it was lost.

I'm a liberal. It seems there is a thing now in trying to out liberalize the other liberals. Maybe this is where the term progressive comes in. If you are pushed away, which I think you can only take yourself out, then why are you being pushed? Or is it just a perceived notion because ideas are being questioned? As you state your rights, remember the rights of others. Democrats are a diverse group, not given to sheeple thinking, it's what keeps us going. What does keep us going is the united effort to help direct the movement of this country by keeping the Democratic Party in power.

[laughingliberal]

32. Well, you can't win 'em all. I am seeing some responses where people do see what I was asking

n/t

[jaxx]

37. LOL yes, the great divide has another brick in the wall.

[valerief]

11. It's not exactly accepted that we're supportive of the Democratic Party per se.

Who We Are: Democratic Underground is an online community for Democrats and other progressives. Members are expected to be generally supportive of progressive ideals, and to support Democratic candidates for political office. Democratic Underground is not affiliated with the Democratic Party, and comments posted here are not representative of the Democratic Party or its candidates.

Supporting Democratic candidates for political office doesn't mean embracing the entire Democratic Party. And we're expected to be generally progressive (as opposed to DLCish). Ben Nelson is a Democrat but he's no progressive!

[jaxx]

29. Most democrats don't run under the republican banner.

In supporting Democratic candidates you also support the party per se.

[struggle4progress]

9. Trolls, idiots, DLCers ...

[Cleita]

10. Who benefits from bashing liberals?

The business friendly DLC Repub...er Democrats do.

[tbyg52]

12. >>if we question the actions of Democrats who act like Republicans.

Exactly. If we can't do that, what's the point?

[Name removed]

13. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[valerief]

17. Disappointment with HCR does not equate to "blaming the black guy". Sheesh. Talk about childish. nt

[Chulanowa]

23. Where did I say that it did?

I said skipping over the people who wrote, debated, and voted on the bill in an effort to pin the blame on Obama does.

Read. it helps.

[valerief]

33. I'll play.

I'm willing to allow that this may just be that many of my fellow liberals are dipshits who don't know how things work. But I can't help but wonder if a fair number of these "liberals" aren't just trying to find a way to pin the blame on the black guy, whether through active maliciousness, or because they were expecting a Magic Negro and instead got an actual person.

Edited to add: This is from your post #13, Chulanowa.

[Chulanowa]

56. Don't play games you don't know the rules to

This is, however, what many of your "liberals" are doing. They stretch and stretch to find any possible reason to blame Obama for anything and everything and always give the people who are actually responsible a free pass in so doing.

From the same (now deleted) post.

Y'know, there's a saying. When you throw a rock into a bunch of dogs, the one that yelps is the one you hit. Well friend, you seem to be yelping about my suspicions that a number of so-called liberals are basically trying to shoot at the man because he's not as shiny white as say, McCain or Palin. It's hardly an unreasonable suspicion, given the attitudes, opinions, and actions I've seen on DU these last few months. Why are you so bothered by this that you're going so far as to take it out of context, refuse to recognize what's being said, and then pout and whine?

Perhaps a nerve was struck?

[valerief]

58. Buh-bye, 'one of those' people! nt

[laughingliberal]

21. I rest my case

We do know who benefits if the liberal wing of the party is alienated. We are wondering who thinks they benefit from that.

[walldude]

50. Well that is a huge crock of shit. There are many who offer reasonable

solutions to the health care bill but those posts drop like stones. You have been explaining basic reality to me but I am wallowing in my own shit? Let me explain some "basic reality to you" because apparently you think you are the only one who is educated.

The HCR bill can be resolved in reconciliation with 51 votes. Which we already have. A medicare buy-in for all can be added to the bill with just a 51 vote majority because it's already an existing program and can be entered as a budget reconciliation. It could be a deficit neutral program with higher wage earners paying a slightly higher premium to cover subsidies for the poor. It also allows anyone who wants out of the shitty health care system an option, while leaving the tea baggers with their shitty for profit insurance, and no new taxes.

It would re-energize the base, bring both sides together and give Obama back some of his lost clout. It's an easy viable, affordable solution and would pave the way for single payer in the future. Once the Genie is out of the bottle even the baggers would realize they are being ripped off and the tide against universal single payer would shift.

But don't listen to me, I'm just an uneducated moron who wallows in his own shit every time someone says Obama. :rofl:

[Chulanowa]

57. I have no idea if you're wallowing in shit

Your name is unfamiliar.

However, I do know we have a large contingent of "progressives" who, rather than address the actual problems - that their congressmen and senators are bought and paid for and that the "progressive" attempts at protest are weak and ineffective, decide to just shake their fist to the heavens and blame that damn black devil Obama. These are the people I was addressing.

Like you they tend to start sniffling and pouting about how everyone's against them when they're called on their halfwit BS. Rather than bite onto your position - which I agree is a good idea - they just want to shove their hands into their pants and cry about how awful Obama is.

He's definitely got room for improvement, but their act isn't helping anyone. And you, with your apparent belief that these people who have done nothing for years except flick boogers at their computer screens are the actual "liberals" who are being "bashed" certainly aren't helping.

[kenfrequed]

15. Don't worry

As time goes by "remember 2000" and "Naderite" will be the spin to cow progressives into Democratic Calesthenics (holding your nose and pulling the lever).


To counter this I recommend focusing on caucuses and primaries as a means to push progressive candidates to the top. Do NOT let the DCCC (currently run by a very conservative blue dog) or other out of state 'party people' or 'professional strategists' sell people in your district on going moderate or selling it to the suburbs or whatever other nonsense they put out this next year.

After all with two or three more Wellstones, and/or a couple dozen Kucinichs it really won't matter what the DLC (and their computer friends) think.

[laughingliberal]

22. +1 nt

[patrice]

16. Right- and Left- "Third" Partyers.

[HBravo]

18. Agreed but.........

The different opinions I feel are people venting. When it comes down to the end (reading between the lines) we all want the same thing and will rally around it.

[laughingliberal]

34. I hope so. Thank you for that. nt

[HBravo]

36. You are welcome

And I hope everyone has a Happy and Safe New Year!

[Nikki Stone1]

19. Wall Street.

.

[laughingliberal]

26. On my list of possible beneficiaries of the current liberal bashing in the party that ranks way near

the top. Thanks for the response. :)

[KittyWampus]

20. I'm pretty damned far Left and recognize progress even when it isn't as far-reaching as I'd like.

Take yourself off the cross.

[laughingliberal]

24. Not my point, at all

Once again. If I don't like the heat, I am perfectly capable of getting out of the kitchen. My question, again, is who benefits from alienation of the left wing of the party.

[Goldstein1984]

25. I involved myself on DU because I believe in democracy...

the Democratic Party is not my concern. I left the party when it bought into voodoo economics under Clinton.

I believe in democratic and liberal principles, the Democratic Party just happens to be marching in the same direction as I am most of the time. If the party goes marching off in what I think is the wrong direction, I have no problem watching it leave me behind.

I think the answer to your question is that nothing is gained, and much is lost--nobody benefits. I can handle the bashing (and the unrecs)--I'm not here for a popularity contest or group hug. But I see the bashing from the Right side of the party as evidence that the party is threatened and believes the best defense is a good offense--the bashing is a tactic to invalidate a competing point of view and those who voice that point of view. The ease with which Progressives were dismissed this week is something I am going to remember.

[liberal_at_heart]

28. +1

[laughingliberal]

30. You are always able to put what I am thinking in words so well. Thanks nt

[Goldstein1984]

39. It's because I've been thinking and feeling the same thing

The give and take I've experienced over the past few weeks has reinforced a belief that I have had for some time--the two-party system has become nothing but a chess game that is being played very well by those for whom democracy is an impediment to power. The two parties are a means to keep the people squabbling, divided and occupied with an artificial struggle between two abstract philosophies.

The Left/Right struggles within each party are just smaller versions of the same distraction. Everyone thinks they're in control, plotting their own moves, being "pragmatic" and "tactical" with their votes and support, but their moves are all covered already. That's why the huge difference between George Bush and Barack Obama in political theory has barely manifested itself in political practice.

Somewhere on high, those with the real wealth and power are planning their next moves.

[laughingliberal]

42. I think you're correct on that. I see no way to resolve it, either

I have always known the fight is between the haves and the have nots. I have always seen that the racial, gender, nationality, and religious divides were to keep us occupied so we could not organize any power against those who really stand in the way of progress for the masses. It has just been since the election of this President that I see the Democrat/Republican divide as the same game. It is overwhelming to think what we are up against and I am without answers. The old ways no longer work. Is there really any chance for democratic rule? I guess my question is, what now?

[Goldstein1984]

46. I don't know, "what now?"

I look around and see a mostly pacified and frightened people, many too poorly educated to understand what is really happening, or too busy struggling to survive to pay attention.

I was pleased to see that Arianna Huffington called for divestment from big banks today. If a tactic like that were practiced by enough people, and if it produced a measurable result, it might empower people to demand more.

I'm just going to keep educating myself and trying to raise the awareness of others.

I want to be prepared if the moment comes when we can kick the chess board off of the table.

[laughingliberal]

48. I noticed Huffington's call to divest from the big banks, also

There was a thread here on it but did not seem to get much attention. I've been thinking starving the beast is the only way to make any headway. Many, I've noticed, are suggesting getting out of the big banks and into credit unions, etc...I think most around here are aware of trying to shop with local merchants when possible. Shopping less probably helps. Perhaps as unemployment eases people will curtail spending more in the future. Enough people taking all of these steps would, eventually, get their attention.

I know there is huge anger on both sides of the political divide at Wall Street and the continued corporate bailouts. I wish there were some way to push all that populist rage into some sort of united front that would push for more 'main street' friendly policies. Unfortunately, those on the right aren't happy about the bank bailouts but are still not of the mind to see where government spending directed in the right areas could resolve a lot of the problems of workers. It's frustrating. Two sides of the divide hurt by the same policies but unable to come together to fight the real enemies of the people.

[Goldstein1984]

51. We aren't the nation we once were

I don't know if a return to New Deal-style democratic capitalism is even possible.

When FDR stimulated the economy, he did it with projects that employed people and created infrastructure that is still a benefit. When Bush and Obama tried to stimulate the economy, they just propped up Wall Street and relied on the same trickle-down nonsense that got us into this mess.

There is a concerted effort to discredit any departure from the easily-controlled two-party system. As we heard this week, Progressives have been labeled as irrelevant.

[liberal_at_heart]

43. Wow, you are very articulate. Well said.

[Goldstein1984]

47. I spend a lot of time in my office

complaining on paper and in emails.

And I work in a job where I often have to convince our clients and my superiors to do things that they would rather not do.

[patrice]

53. +1 = I identify with every word.

[OHdem10]

27. They mistakenly think bashing Liberals helps them with RWers.

This no longer works, RWers are not going to change their
minds now. Either like or Obama or don't. They have decided
it is to their advantage to bring Obama down. The bashers
may wake up too late from their clueless approach.

The Centrists and DLC have no love lost on Liberals or Progressives.
If they could manage without our votes and money they kick us
to the curb forever. For over 20 years watching all kinds
of TV expecially C-Span, people let their real feelings slip.
Sometimes they forget their mike is still on. Sometimes
they just slip and show their disdain.

[laughingliberal]

38. That is one of the things I think is part of it

That they think pissing off the liberals, somehow, comforts the centrists and right wingers and may garner them votes. As you said, the RW wouldn't vote for them if they walked on water. And I'm not sure they can garner enough centrist votes to make up for losing the left. We have always known that turnout is key to Democratic wins. This current round of liberal bashing feels like a voter suppression operation. Just a thought.

[Jakes Progress]

31. Kinds makes you think that if you wanted to help republicans

the very best thing you could do is hide on a site like DU and alienate the left by calling them name and say that you are doing it to support the president.

Nah. That couldn't happen.

[laughingliberal]

35. Heaven forbid! nt

[liberal_at_heart]

40. although the trolls can get us riled up I think it is what the politicians themselves are doing that

really has us upset. If the democrats in Congress were actually writing legislation that supported liberal ideals then all the trolls in the world couldn't make us as mad as we are right now.

[laughingliberal]

44. true nt

[valerief]

41. Badda bing! Bash a liberal, support a centrist (or worse). That's what they're doing.

Maybe even what they're paid to do.

[LouKneeLib]

45. What liberals in which party?

All many of us see in the politics of today is Conservative and Conservative-Lite. Bashing a DINO (which describes 95% of the current Democrats) or a Republican - what's the real difference?

Some of us are sick of the "never mind the left" philosophy that Obama and many of our congress critters have embraced.

[Atticus]

52. Corporate America. Already considered "citizens", they are about to be givin the Supreme

Court's official "okey-dokey" to just outright BUY elections.

The corporatists depend on having BOTH parties controlled by people who are always willing to "go along to get along". No damned liberal boat-rockers will be allowed more than an occasional token "moment in the sun" before "somehow" their candidacy or their leadership position gets torpedoed.

Good post. The older I get, the "libber" I become.

[Faryn Balyncd]

54. Blue Cross

k and r

[Laelth]

55. Good question. n/t

:dem:

-Laelth

[rudy23]

61. I think some people are here solely to ruin the site. I strongly suspect the DLC is not crazy about

us having a voice here on the internets.

I see thread after thread where DLC thugs throw shit at liberals, then act persecuted when we fight back. Then THEY start diaries lamenting the vile tone on DU, and calling for rules changes so they can "come to a Democratic website that supports our Democratic President."

They have the distinct advantage of not wanting DU to be around, and not being sincere in their beliefs. So, just like the teabaggers, they LOVE to derail threads, change the subject, throw out ad hominems, etc. It really speaks volumes about Obama's long term political strategy that Rahm would send his Message Discipline team out here to bully Progressives out of the Democratic party, so they can brag about how they're equally hated by the left and right.