What do you know about a four-day school week?

[Brickbat]

My kids' district is considering it to save money. They say that there is no lack of academic progress in schools that have four-day weeks with slightly longer days, and that the main down side is inconvenience for the parents and guardians trying to find child care for that last day.

I'm leaning toward being OK with the change if it must be done, and I will certainly take it over cutting programs/teachers. If you have any experience with a four-day week, either as a student or with your children, how did it go?

Thanks!

EDIT: <Insert standard "why the hell would someone unrec this" question here.>

[Davis_X_Machina]

1. We have one, de facto, half the year...

...because of a combination of holidays and snow days. It plays hob with a alternating-day schedule -- you can go e.g. Thursday to Tuesday without seeing your troops, but for non-departmentalized schools, say k-6, it works fine.

My preferred mechanism in moving to a longer school year has always been more four-day weeks, provided the missing day is Monday or Friday, and shorter vacations.

[Brickbat]

3. We do too, with snow days...

...and that's another factor -- fewer make-up days, fewer missed days, more flexibility with the weather.

As I understand it, the missing day would probably be a Friday.

[timeforpeace]

39. Gosh, do you really think teachers would want to work for 4 days and get paid for 5?

[roody]

40. Most teachers will continue to work 5 or 6. You can

get so much done when the kids are gone.

[greenbriar]

2. I would ABSOLUTELY LOVE IT

as a teacher

[Brickbat]

4. I think more professions should go to four days a week.

When Mr. Brickbat was working construction, some contractors worked four 10s, and it was just awesome -- a 10-hour day isn't that much worse than 8, and then you get a three-day weekend every week. A couple even went to three 12s, with separate shifts. More flexibility in all positions would make use workers bees a lot happier, IMO.

[doc03]

5. If you count snow days, 2 hour delays, teachers conferences

summer vacation and all the other misc days off we have about two days a week.

[tritsofme]

6. Seems like it could be rough on working parents

especially with younger kids, to make daycare/babysitting arrangements for a whole day every week.

I can see the appeal of a four day work week, this past year we instituted flex scheduling at my office. I have lots of people that are able to work 10 hour days and be off on either Monday or Friday, some also chose to work 9 hour days Monday to Thursday and then a half day on Friday.

Everyone really likes it, and if anything I think it is making the department much more productive.

[Igel]

38. Quite the opposite.

Some school districts have a 4-day week so that the kids can be dropped off when the parents head to work and picked up when they're done. So the school day matches more closely the work day. For 4 days.

The other day the kid has to be farmed out to somebody. It's a hassle, and one parents can't really avoid. The few examples I've seen discussed usually require proof that the parent is working (or parents are working) jobs that make the usual school day inconvenient, as well as have incomes below a certain cut-off.

But the 5-day week is a hassle, too, because the kid comes home a couple of hours before the parents arrive back home. So do they arrange for somebody to watch the kid? Probably not, because it is precisely such a hassle. Should they? Absolutely.

I have trouble with the academic side of it, though. Yeah, I know people say that academics don't suffer. But after 7-8 hours in school most kids are zonked, and the last period or two the kids are dragging. So we'll add an hour or two at the end of a day that's already too long?

Dunno.

[Warpy]

7. I can see it being better for the kids

who will get a real block of decent rest on the weekends, but a scramble when both parents work.

As for the savings, they'll be on keeping the school lights off and the heat down one day a week and they can be considerable over the year, probably enough to keep one teacher per school working instead of laying off that teacher and cramming in more kids per class.

I'd say it's a good deal for the teachers, the kids and the taxpayers. I do sympathize with working parents. Eventually activities will be created to fill the breach for parents able to pay for them, the music and art that schools already have had to cut.

Until then, it's going to be tough.

[Brickbat]

18. We have an excellent before- and after-school program that also does a good summer care program, and

I assume they'll run the off-day program, too, but I guess I don't know that.

[LisaL]

8. I think it's a horrible idea for parents who work 5 days a week.

What are they supposed to do with the kid?

[glowing]

11. What did they do with their kid before they got school to babysit their child?

There's about 4 to 5 yrs there that a parent is alone figuring out what to do with a child 5 days a week.

[LisaL]

12. Yea well some countries have government sponsored child

care for younger kids.
:eyes:

[liberal_at_heart]

13. exactly

Here in the US, people pay a substantial percentage of their paycheck on daycare. I think it is great that other countries subsidize childcare. We should be doing that too.

[LisaL]

14. Exactly. And if there is a four day school week, poor parents

will have to pay for their school aged children during that fifth day. Which is extremely inconvenient, and costly, to say the least.

[glowing]

17. I wish we did have this in our country. I wish daycare centers were under

govt supervised control. Some of these places are scary little kiddie centers... The only thing I'm trying to point out is that parents are on the hook for the first 4 to 5 yrs... and there are so many holidays and half days and summer vacations... most parents have to deal with arranging something for their children.

[Brickbat]

24. While I sympathize, I'm not interested in my school district bankrupting itself for the sake of kids

whose parents have trouble finding day care. I'm sympathetic, and I also know that there are some good options for poorer families in my district and through my county's services.

[REP]

9. It would be hard on teachers

I'm not one, but one of my close friends is, and while the extra day off would be nice, there wouldn't be enough time to teach everything that is in her guidelines, especially with her very mixed class (lots of behavior problems/academically troubled, academically challenged, a few GATE and some academic averages). Plus, longer days with a class of 30+ kids - not all angels - would be hard on teachers and kids, especially younger kids.

[LiberalFighter]

10. What was it like when you were in school towards the end of the day?

Were you tired?

Would that be good for the kids education?

[Brickbat]

19. My children's school day is much shorter than mine ever was. If the four-day plan gets the day

closer to what I had, I can support that.

[Iggo]

15. The 5-day school week is tied to the 5-day work week.

I get the feeling there'd be a shitload of problems if you change one without changing the other.

[liberal_at_heart]

16. You make a good point

There seems to be some animosity towards parents who need their kids to be in school while they are at work but people forget that is the way it was set up to work.

[tonysam]

20. School schedules aren't set up 9 to 5,

just so you know. Parents can adjust to a four-day week; they have to do it in the summertime, too.

[liberal_at_heart]

22. People who can afford it adjust to it

Why is there so much animosity towards poor parents who have a hard time paying childcare? I don't get it. Instead of attacking people maybe we should be looking at ways to help them. I happen to have the luxury of staying home with my children because my husband makes a good living, but I don't have many job skills. If I were on my own and working a minimum wage job I would be very poor and have a very difficult time paying childcare.

[Brickbat]

21. We live in a rural area

where there's a lot of very casual in-home child care, kids staying with relatives, and so on, and also the school runs a good before- and after-school program that also includes summer care, and I wonder if that program would just pick up the final day. It's highly subsidized, but parents do pay for part of it. I think that some of the problems a larger district might face wouldn't be nearly as hard for ours.

[Iggo]

32. I suspect you're right.

I was thinking more along the lines of city school districts like the LAUSD in Los Angeles.

[NYC_SKP]

23. We Should have a 4-day School Week AND a 4-day WORK WEEK.

Problem solved.

Thanks very much.

:P

[Iggo]

33. I'm right there with ya.

[LWolf]

25. I'm teaching one this year.

We did it to save money, of course. Last spring, we took a pay cut, rif'd 43 teachers, lost our pe teachers and prep periods, and went to a 4-day school year for '09-'10 to make up the budget shortfalls. Since the state economy is worse now than it was then, we're looking at double the shortfall for the '10-'11 year, if the bills in this month's special election raising corporate taxes fail. Who knows where we'll cut then. :(

The 4-day school year:

We were told the same thing. It's not true.

Here is our experience with the 4-day year so far:

WE'RE TIRED. Learning happens best with shorter, more frequent periods, not longer, fewer blocks of time. Our school doesn't get out until 4:15, and we're not learning more that last hour. We are all, parents and students alike, brain dead at that point.

We're a K-8 school. My 6th - 8th graders handle the late day better than the younger students, which is to be expected. K-2? They struggle. The first month, many were crying the last hour before the day was out.

So...we have fewer days to teach. And our days are longer. We've cut way back on homework, incorporating what we used to send home into the classroom so that our students can do chores, eat dinner, and have a life before bedtime. They still get some, but not what they did before.

We chose the 4-day week over a drastic increase in class sizes. We probably still would. But we're all looking ahead to the time when we can go back to a 5 day week.

Of course, that takes up the "extra" time, so we are trying to meet all the same curricular requirements in less time than before. It would be less time anyway, because the new calendar cuts out all the extra minutes above and beyond the minimum the state requires that we USED to teach.

So, we are 1/3 of the way through the year, and already behind as far as required curriculum goes.

Staff and student burnout is high, and began much earlier than usual. October, instead of April.

Our district has worked with community organizations to provide places for kids to go on Fridays, with some enrichment activities. That's good, for those who can afford the $15 per kid per Friday. Many can't.

The general consensus, (and there is an official consensus; our district has met with each school several times to have this discussion, and compiled responses,) is that we don't like it. Teachers get many, but not all, Fridays off. That's nice. It takes an extra day of rest to keep up the grueling schedule the rest of the week. With the loss of our prep period, and the need to fit all the meetings we attend into a 4-day week, we spend our Fridays catching up on all the paperwork we aren't getting done the other 4 days, whether we come in to work or take it home.

While our district is listening, we don't expect the 4-day week to go away until the economy and the state budget improve.

[Brickbat]

26. Thanks so much for your perspective.

I have several teacher friends and haven't had a chance to talk with them about this yet; we just heard about it in the last couple days. I hate that it's a choice between whether they spank you on Ass Cheek A (smaller class sizes, more teaching positions) or Ass Cheek B (four-day weeks).

I'll keep your info in mind when I talk to people about it. Thanks.

[LWolf]

29. You are welcome, of course! nt

[liberal_at_heart]

27. I'm sorry you and your students are having such a hard time

I hope you can go back to a 5 day a week schedule very soon. When you brought up the issue of kids having a life outside of school that made me think of my son's schedule. I am a very involved parent. My kids do homework as soon as they get home from school then they play or do extra curricular activities. So we do homework and then my son has swimming two days a week from 6 to 6:30. With homework, dinner, chores, and extra curricular activities I can't imagine trying to squeeze in more class hours.

[LWolf]

28. That's a common problem with any family

that is engaged in anything in the community after school.

And those experiences are an important part of developing a well-balanced, well-adjusted adult.

[GreenPartyVoter]

31. Wow. I really feel for the kids and staff. That sounds like a terrible situation. I know

from coaching an after school sport that goes until 4:30 that yes they sure do fry by that hour. Or they get goofy. Either way they don't focus too well.

[LWolf]

36. It's true.

While the end of the day bell rings at 4:15, we don't get to dismiss all the kids until 4:30. Those whose parents pick them up are dismissed with the bell. Most ride the bus; we're a rural school, with a far flung population. We hold them in the room until their bus shows up, and when the bus is called we dismiss them. I don't dismiss the last students until 4:30 or so, and, this far north at this time of the year, it's dusk. They get dropped off in the pitch black darkness of a rural area, and some have a mile or two to walk to get home. Most parents have someone waiting at the bus stop to take them home, but not all.

I'm looking forward to the days lengthening, to say the least. Trouble focusing late in the day? Absolutely. They have trouble focusing the last hour of a normal-length school day.

[Ter]

30. Why not stick with a 5 day school week

Then abolish college requirement for 90% of all jobs. You shouldn't have to go to college to be a postal worker, police officer, sanitation worker, or work for the fire department. Your 20's are your prime. I know so many people that age wasting their youth, never having time to do anything with school and work.

[Iggo]

34. You have to be a college graduate to be a postal worker?

Where?

[Ter]

35. Not a graduate

But last I heard you have to have 40 credits. Every state and local country has different requirements.

[patrice]

37. It would be perfect with a work week that was 4 10s too, but don't expect anything like THAT

to happen ever.