Joe Klein purports to help those he knows NOTHING about. Joe Klein: PLEASE CALL me, YOU need help.

[Land Shark]

In addition to yesterday's column in TIME about the left's "inexplicable" opposition to health insurance bailout bills that preserve the right to put out donation buckets at cash registers to help those WITH "insurance" pay for their health care needs, I found this two or three week old blog post by Klein on time.com's site:

There are millions of poor people who have no health insurance--tens of thousands of them with serious illnesses--who will be subsidized to buy health insurance and able to receive both preventive and chronic care for the first time if this imperfect bill passes. This is a massive move toward progressivity, an enormous new entitlement for the working poor. {..} I'm just dumbstruck by those on the left who would oppose this for whatever ideological fetishes they imagine are being traduced. It is simply amazing and absolutely disgraceful. Grow up.
http://swampland.blogs.time.com/2009/12/16/the-left-blogosphere-melts-down/

Nearly every clause of this post is objectionable or ridiculous but a few select points:

I have no health insurance myself, having been self-employed for too long, and I've had serious illnesses in the past three years plus. I suppose I'm a "poor person" but that is almost entirely due to inadequate and overly expensive corporate health care and corporate health insurance.

Although people like Joe Klein purport to help me and others like me, Joe Klein's definitely never talked to me, nor has anybody else pushing the bill, and apparently Joe Klein in particular has never spoken in any detail with one of the uninsured "poor" he's so keen on helping. I'd be happy to speak to him, he can email me at [e-mail], and he should know that the "unwashed" poor ain't so unwashed, and my Juris Doctor degree and life experience will help insure that I can articulate the circumstances and considerations that I'm not detailing in this post.

You know, when you want to HELP someone, you ought to talk to the person you wish to help to make sure that the help you give is a good fit with their needs. Makes sense, no?

Surely, since Joe Klein is "dumbstruck" by the opposition on the left, he's sincerely interested in understanding that opposition, no? Well, I am sincerely interested in EXPLAINING that opposition to him, preferably on the telephone, with the added perspective of being one of the people he fancies he's helping.

If Joe Klein's not sincerely interested in understanding that opposition or the people he's purporting to help, then I for one will be "dumbstruck" or at a loss for words to explain Joe Klein's state of mind and intent when he writes words like the ones above.

So, presuming Klein's in good faith, I've offered an email contact address of [e-mail] so that he can satisfy his dumbstruck curiosity AND speak to one of the people he's purporting to help, all in one contact. It would be efficient and productive use of his time, in these regards.

Joe Klein's out of touch with the realities of the people he purports to be helping. It seems many on the left are at least AWARE of those realities. But again, I sure hope Klein will email me so we can iron this out on the telephone.

[HughMoran]

1. .

[Land Shark]

15. All the substantive points re HCR are deliberately NOT here - blog-reading ain't workin' for Klein

and I don't want him to fall into the trap that has already left him flabbergasted and unable to understand the left when he admits elsewhere there are many articulate and intelligent voices on the left.

Telephone or in person conversation has a much different dynamic for achieving understanding, which appears to be what Joe Klein is seeking. The internet's great for a lot of stuff, but not dialog. E.g. it's a whole lot easier and more common to be totally snarky and go on and on via a tangent on the internet, where there's no other conversationalist to interrupt and clarify, etc.

[Hello_Kitty]

2. So how many articles have Joe and the rest of the shills written about Nelson and Stupak?

Who actually have threatened to kill the bill if they can't sniff womens' panties.

[Land Shark]

6. Let me guess. NONE? ? n/t

[WeDidIt]

3. SCREAM A LITTLE LOUDER!!!!!

TEABAGGERS PROVED IT WORKS!!!!!

[Land Shark]

17. Howdy, saw you on this thread calling Kucinich = "Arrogant Elf" & the MI attorney-witness to 12-25

terror incident a publicity seeking "nut." I'm wondering how you distinguish yelling like a teabagger from the rhetorical style you are engaging in with all CAPS?

Here's the link to the foregoing http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=7374509&mesg_id=7374509

[WeDidIt]

18. I call Kucinich an "Arrogant Elf" whenever anybody calls Rahm an "Angry Dwarf"

Haskell is an attention seeking nut. His bullshit story doesn't square with the easily verifiable facts.

And as I understand it, taking one debate from one thread inbto another thread is a violation of DU rules, though I could be mistaken.

[Land Shark]

20. Oh, Ok, equalizing the playing field so two wrongs make a right. Got it.

Send me the rule if there is one and you've got it. I've never heard of any such rule.

[dorkulon]

4. Why not explain it to us? Because all I get from this is you're mad at Klein for calling you poor.

In fact, for the really poor, there's already medicaid--the idea, I thought, was to cover those not poor enough to qualify for medicaid, and yet not rich enough to afford health insurance.

BTW, putting 'unwashed' in quotes makes it seem like you're quoting Klein, which you're not.

[Land Shark]

5. No, the idea is that he's either curious enough to make the effort to contact uninsured and/or left

writers or bloggers, or else his inability to understand/"Dumbstruck" pose is just - a pose.

I'm not upset about being called "poor" to the extent it describes a socioeconomic level (I've also been upper middle class, maybe will be again someday, who knows). Rather it's the combination of some condescension combined with apparent ignorance (or, alternatively, uncaring) about the opinions of those he's purporting to advocate a "gift" for, or an "entitlement."

There's more than one proper use of quotation marks, more than simply quoting someone else. They are also used, as I suspect you already know, to suggest doubt or even a loose paraphrase of one's self or another person, and it's discernible from the context. I'll review the passage but I'm not convinced I did anything wrong except, perhaps, be slightly ambiguous or vague, but then it didn't fool you at all.

If you're seriously interested in my perspectives, you can make the slight effort to use the DU google feature and search on "Land Shark"

[Hello_Kitty]

7. Don't sweat it, Land Shark

The shills have nothing but condescension and guilt trips at this point.

[dorkulon]

9. You misjudge me.

I think the bill stinks too, although I suppose it may possibly be better than nothing. I just didn't see much merit in this OP.

But I suppose anyone who offers the least bit of criticism must be a "shill".

[Land Shark]

13. The "merit" in the OP is, among others, an invitation to speak to one of the targets of HCR largesse

I'm not posting all the substantive detail here since Joe Klein, and I'll be others, have not been able to divine or assemble all the merits from reading the blogosphere, and since that blog reading is clearly not working for Klein, I'm inviting him to email and establish telephone contact, since it's obvious that Klein reads the blogosphere, especially when it is ABOUT HIM. In that respect, he's like a lot of people.

[Land Shark]

11. Well, if that's all they have then I want to see it come & then they have same probs as Klein

Anyone who continues to engage in condescension in the face of one of the people they purport to be helping so much really just exposes themselves, unfortunately.

[Hello_Kitty]

14. Well, any time someone like Joe Klein starts acting like he cares about poor people.

Be wary.

[Land Shark]

16. I don't know any "poor people" but I know people making < 30K. Using term "poor" distances him...

That distance, in turn, is an odd vantage point from which to "help" people.

[Starry Messenger]

8. His pupils here have been busy, too.

recommend.

[grytpype]

10. Klein is 100% right about this.

[Land Shark]

12. He's right that both he, and you, can't understand the left opposition?

Professed ignorance is not a very powerful position to be coming from unless it's joined with a sincere desire to learn.

[HuckleB]

19. +1

The ivory towers may allow the pointless screams to carry a ways, but it doesn't mean the screams have any substance to them.

[Land Shark]

21. Who's got the ivory towers? who owns the towers? I'm a little puzzled by the reply. n/t

[HuckleB]

22. You should know. It appears that you built a rather tall one for yourself.

[Land Shark]

25. I'm one of the "poor people" other folks are trying to help, remember? Does this include you?

I don't have the money for an ivory tower, all I have are ideas. Don't claim there aren't any in the OP: for starters, there's the idea that if you want to help people, it's a good idea - to the point of being necessary and required if you want to operate on common sense - to talk to those you wish to help and to understand their situation. For example, I don't want to be mandated to buy products like insurance I've purchased in the past that helped ruin my life for a number of years. Can you understand how i might reasonably feel that way?

[Land Shark]

29. Three identical posts on different threads with this text. n/t

[DefenseLawyer]

23. "I have neither the time nor legal background to figure out who's right."

That quote is all you need to know about the journalistic and intellectual prowess of Joe Klein. He's worthless.

[Land Shark]

24. Thanks, that is a telling quote... n/t

[Marr]

26. Isn't it interesting how so much of the establishment, right and "left",

is ridiculing, mocking, and admonishing their respective bases to "grow up" and otherwise get in line?

People are not fat and happy anymore. This is not 1993, and you cannot rape people with policy and then get them back into line with the same old "our team/their team" political bullshit.

Klein is a relic. He's out of touch. Ten years behind.

[Land Shark]

27. Yeah, "Grow up" and accept WITH GRATITUDE what we're going to force you to accept! n/t

[Land Shark]

28. I checked the email, and so far, NO WORD FROM JOE KLEIN. G'night, see ya tomorrow. n/t