How do teachers discipline children in this day and age?

[Toots]

When I was a child the paddle was always there, a threat hanging over every child that would sass the teacher or fail to do their homework or ??? Kids had a basic fear of being paddled, which was much more of an embarrassment than it actually hurt. I believe when you hit a child as punishment, you teach that child that hitting is the way to solve your problems. I am not in favor of hitting any child but what do teachers have now as a way to discipline? They send the kid to the Principal's office and the kid might get sent home. WOW big punishment for the kid.. Gets a few days off from school. When kids talk back to the teacher what recourse does the teacher have? I think a lot of the problems with our education system is that kids no longer Respect and fear their instructors. The kids have the power now and they are not afraid to use it..

[Taitertots]

1. Nothing

Why do you think so many act like little assholes.

What do the parents do? Nothing either

[wordpix]

2. send child out of room to "discipline person." Call parents during class or after. Then

nothing happens, for the most part.

[proud2BlibKansan]

3. Principal - the princiPAL is your pal

The day we start hitting them again is the day I quit teaching.

I am also not in favor of my students fearing me. It's about building trust, not scaring them.

The problem is the parents. If they send well behaved kids to school, they get an education and thrive. If the parents haven't taught their kids to behave, they are more likely to disrupt.

I also think suspension is a good thing. But perhaps the kids should be sent to a detention center instead of allowing them to just stay home and play video games.

[Toots]

4. See I should have been paddled for my spelling.....

:spank: Me bad

[proud2BlibKansan]

5. Not if you were in my class

:)

[goclark]

55. I was a "Pal" for many years

: )

I was in the field when it was OK to use paddles and later without the switch.

I prefer now.

I never hit a child during all my years in Education and I was able to work with the tough and the sweet.


In many ways I preferred to handle the Tough because I had such success with them when others could not -- yes Ms. goclark 5 feet tall could handle the best of them with conversation and conferences with parents and using the Services of the School District personnel.

[Rabrrrrrr]

6. All they can do is tell the parents and hope the ensuing libel lawsuit isn't too bad.

"How dare you suggest that my perfect angel Dakota is disruptive/doesn't do homework/has an attitude problem/spoke back to you/etc.?!?!?!?!?! I'm calling my lawyer!!!!!"

The lawyers control our school systems, now.

[Warren Stupidity]

7. Huh? So you went to Catholic School?

I'm most likely at least as old as you and nobody was paddling anyone in any public school that I knew of. The kids who came in from the local Catholic private schools did have lots to tell about sadistic nuns.

[Toots]

12. Going on 65

I grew up in a US Territory which did not become a state until I was in High School. Maybe things were done differently then. I also grew up in an all white school because Alaskan Natives were not allowed to attend. They had their own school and Blacks simply did not live in my town at the time..

[GreenPartyVoter]

14. I can remember there being paddles in my first and second grade classrooms in public school. This

was the late 70s.

[greenbriar]

25. I taught 2 years in Arkansas in 99-01 and they still swat

in HS.

the boys have the option to take in school or get swats, many choose the swats

I had to witness it three times. I think it was more unpleasant for me to watch than it was for the kids to get their 3 swats and they got to play in the games if they took swats. If they took in school, they were out for that week.

[quiller4]

46. I went to Catholic scholl from 1957-1969 and physical punishment

was not stopped at my school when we got a new principal in 1958.

[quiller4]

47. I went to Catholic School from 1957-1965 and physical punishment

ended in my parish school in 1958. After that we were sent to the principal who sometimes called or sent notes to parents.

[dsc]

59. over 20 states still permit paddling in their public schools

usually on a district by district basis. There are districts in NC which paddle still.

[Tippy]

8. I raised my seven ......and only one time got a call from the school...

Told the principal go ahead and paddle him and tell him he gets another when he gets home...I am not saying it was easy for raising 7 it's never easy...but things were easier back then...today I have two grand sons who along with their parents living with us...very difficult youngsters...They have no respect for anyone, the oldest of the two is in Pre K, the other just a year younger...

[cherish44]

9. It was never appropriate for a teacher to hit a student and I'm glad it's not done anymore

But I agree that discipline is a challenge with a lot of kids. When I was teaching a few years ago the only thing we had was sending them to the office and giving them a detention or a suspension. Not very effective. With some of the really bad troublemakers I had, a personal call to their parents sometimes did the trick. I always taped my class so I had evidence to back me up.

[FreakinDJ]

10. Phyco Babble is destroying the children

I raised 3 boys by myself for the most part and I'm their father

1 works labor - starting his own business and getting married in June

2nd is of Mensa level intelligence and going to college - Mechanical Engineering

3rd is still in Jr High, GATE program, just got a dirt bike for christmas for bring home too many consecutive Straight A report cards

Inter-action with their father makes all the difference in the world

-----------

your problem is with the Parents - not the children

[Brooklyns_Finest]

18. "Inter-action with their father makes all the difference in the world"

THIS.

[Obamanaut]

11. Children no longer have a fear of punishment, virtually nonexistent

in school or at home - and do not learn discipline at home. Discipline in this sense is to be taken as adherence to a set of rules and values, and not to be construed to be the same as punishment.

[raging moderate]

13. Current school discipline practices

Okay, unfortunately there are no actual classroom teachers onboard right now. I guess I am elected to try to carry the ball. I am an itinerant public-school speech/language pathologist, traveling to six public schools, with a caseload of about 64 direct-service clients and about 70 indirect-service clients. So I do know a little, although I am usually running everywhere.
Modern public-school classroom teachers use mostly proactive discipline methods. Of course, there are variations, but generally it goes something like this: Starting in August, the entire school is indoctrinated the "Pillars of Self-Respect" or "Community Principles," generally involving the basic core values of honesty, kindness, diligence, fairness, etc. These posters are everywhere in the hallways and classrooms, there is a special assembly with the Principal, and the teachers and social workers devote some classroom time to each principle, with specific examples. Specific rules and consequences are listed on a prominent display at the front of the room. Then each classroom has a specific bulletin board with each child's name posted on boats on a lake or airplanes in a sky, etc., and about 5 lines beneath. When a child is out of turn, the teacher then fixes him/her with a Look and asks, "Did you grab your classmate's pencil? Go lower your boat to the next level." Occasionally, I see a child in the hallway with a teacher in a brief uncomfortable interview, in which he/she is counseled on better reactions to a situation and told, "The next step listed is a lost recess (or a seat at a class reward movie, or a call to your parents or a trip to the principal). I am sure you can make a better choice next time."
Actually, the greatest problem is parents who continually refuse to believe that their child needs to follow the rules. I once had a principal who quite rightly sentenced a repeat-offender playground assaulter to lose three recesses. His parents came to school to yell obscenities at her and the teacher, then showed up at the next Board of Ed. meeting to try to get them both fired. At another school district, the Middle School principal dealt with a case of school athlete bullies who were committing grand theft, stealing money, cartons of potato chip bags, and cases of soda pop from the school concession stand, and furthermore assaulting and threatening other students to frighten them into silence about it. She quite rightly kicked them off the basketball team, but was then forced to reinstate them after (you guessed it) their bully parents went to the school board and almost got her fired for this. I found a job in a different community ASAP, due to to this and similar incidents.
I was born in Chicago, Illinois, in 1948. When I was a child, no child was EVER paddled in any of my schools. Our teachers and principals were already using principles and methods like those I outlined above, in schools with about 40 kids per class. At the beginning of each year, they devoted about half an hour each day to the simple act of lining up to go to lunch. "Now, Class, remember our talk the other day about proper procedures for standing up and walking across the room. Row One, stand up." (Clatter-clatter; teacher recoils in silent horror) "Oh, that was MUCH too noisy. Sit down, Row One. Row Two, stand up." (Repeat performance). At about Row Three, they would finally, with visible reluctance, allow that Row to walk to the front of the room. Then they would recoil and say, "Oh, that was MUCH too noisy! Go sit down. Now, Row Four, it's your turn. Remember our talk about proper standing up techniques. Stand up." (Etc. Etc. Etc.) Boy, were WE ever snowed! We were IN AWE of the teachers and the principal. About a month after my high school graduation, I had to call my ex-high school for some information. The principal answered the phone, and I was speechless with fear! I had to hang up and try again later.
Those principals had much more power. They could order a child to loss of recess, detention, or suspension, and their actions were not questioned very much. And, in my neighborhood, if you got in trouble at school, then you were also in trouble at home. There was tremendous community support for the schools, and for education, and for community progress.
In addition, the movies and TV shows did not usually glorify smart-aleck or vicious or dissolute behavior, as they so often do nowadays. You are right about more children acting, well, nasty nowadays. During thirty years, this bad attitude has begun at earlier and earlier ages. I do see more vicious, arrogant, selfish, destructive behavior from children who then look around to gauge reactions as though they think they are being cute. It's as though they expect applause as on those sit-coms.
One more thing: I think the schools may be making some mistakes. The local high school had a prominent poster with a screaming American Bald Eagle and a US Flag, with the words, "Pride is the feeling that propels us to greater and greater achievements!" I looked at it and repeated my Sunday School teachers' words: "Pride goes before destruction, and a haughty spirit before a fall." I wonder if there is a sort of endemic confusion these days, perhaps connected to the desire of some Americans to be a mighty empire? Maybe they genuinely think they can bring world peace that way, but my high school teachers taught us about the Pax Romanica (sic?). Their rigid arrogance, brutal cruelty, and ubridled greed were masked by a similar high ideal. The human Id is truly devious, and extremely short-sighted, and we all need to be on watch against it. And we need to encourage our children to do the same.

[GreenPartyVoter]

15. Parents have been like that for a long time. I know that some of my classmates when I was growing up

would really act out in school, and the parents would flip because their little darlings could never do that.

Since my husband and I both have a background in education (He taught and coaches, I got my teaching degree and subbed, also coach,) whenever I am contacted by the school about a behavior issue the first thing I do is check my kneejerk "my kid is an angel" reaction and hear the teacher or principal out. I know they aren't going to waste their time inventing issues and drama for the fun of it. I do try to get my kids' side of the story too, because sometimes they have something to add that might have been left out earlier. Overall, though, we try to be supportive of both the staff and our kids.

It helps, too, to spend time in school volunteering. It's amazing what you see your kids do when they don't think you are looking. LOL (Of course, my younger son acts out when I come in so I had to give that up with him. :( )

[Catshrink]

23. I wish more parents would think this way:

"I know they aren't going to waste their time inventing issues and drama for the fun of it."

Right, like I have nothing better to do than to pick on "your" kid. Most parents are supportive and get on their kids but it's that 5% or so who have managed to raise perfect darlings that are the problem.

Thanks for listening to the teacher.... some won't even do that.

[greenbriar]

24. um, far be it from me to complain about posts, but yours is hard to read

we do have the ability to have paragraphs.

[Odin2005]

27. Great post!

"Actually, the greatest problem is parents who continually refuse to believe that their child needs to follow the rules."

BINGO!

[noamnety]

16. Fortunately I live in a state where hitting the students is illegal.

As for not doing homework, the obvious consequence is that their grades suffer and if they do so little that they fail, they are held back a year.

The more immediate consequence is that sometimes I won't sign off on their permission slips to perform in assemblies or go on field trips for other teachers. That's been pretty successful - kids who haven't been doing their work will suddenly start negotiating, how much do they need to get done by the next day in order to get me to sign.

As for bad behavior, there's generally a reason behind it. Smacking them into submission isn't an effective way of finding out what their issue is. Talking to them as if they are fellow humans is a better path. Someone else mentioned the uncomfortable hallway counseling sessions, and I do those, but I try to do them in nonconfrontational ways. I used to have an empty hallway outside my room and I miss that. Kids expect to go into the hall and have you stand face to face with them, not listening, just lecturing. I liked going out there, and sitting my ass on the floor with my back against the wall. I never had to tell them to sit, they would follow my physical cues, which is a nonverbal/nonconfrontational way of establishing dominance. Kinda like dog packs. Anyway, then we'd be sitting side by side on the floor, which is nonthreatening to both parties, and makes it a conversation rather than a test of wills.

Now there's a bench outside my room, so we sit on that instead of the floor. It's not quite as good as far as body language goes, but I still appreciate that we are sitting side by side talking. I also find that asking an open ended question like "what's going on?" is far more likely to resolve conflict than me starting out with "What you're doing is totally unacceptable." "What's going on?" is far more likely to get to whether they are having a bad day in general, whether they don't have the resources at home to do the homework, whether they find the assignment not challenging enough, whether they aren't seeing the connection to the real world in it, etc.

[surrealAmerican]

17. You must have gone to a seriously awful school if paddling ...

... was the only form of punishment they used. Even a century or so ago, teachers would sit a kid in the corner, or make them write "lines", or keep them in at recess.

It is never a choice between hitting them or just doing nothing.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

19. The parents in denial about thier little darlings is why I teach college

I liked teaching high school except for the discipline issues. Teaching college has it own issues, but whiny parents and their snotty nosed brats are not one of them.

[KittyWampus]

26. I read recently there is a generation of parents who do, in fact, contact college professors

if a child gets a bad grade. Anecdotal evidence from articles. I have no solid facts to support that. But it does ring true, as a generation of parents seem to not be able to allow their kids independence and stop with the micro-managing.

[Odin2005]

29. It's the Boomer Helicopter Parent phenomenon.

It would be hysterically funny were it not so sad, and that's coming from the Millennial Generation son of 2 Boomers. :)

[JonQ]

32. Suppose they will follow them when the kid graduates

and make sure their boss never gives them a bad review or criticizes their work? That could be devastating, hearing something negative about yourself if you've been isolated from failing your entire life.

[kiva]

36. Yes, but there is the Familly Privacy Act to block most

of the problem - "Sorry Mr./Ms. Smith, I can't tell you anything about Zachary/Jeniffer's grade/work/behavior because of the Family Privacy Act." Helicopter parents exist, but can be fended off at the college level.

Another instructor at my college had this exchange with a new freshman (after telling the student she was failing the class):

"You can't fail me!"

Surprised instructor: "What do you mean?"

"Because of no child left behind - you can't give me an F!"

Note: I did not witness this, just heard about it from the instructor, but I do believe it happened.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

50. I have only heard from one parent...

I post course notes, requirements, syllabuses etc on line. I got an email from a parent who was a professional in the field with reasonable questions about course requirements and content. What he did not understand that as one of the gateway courses, it was not intended to be a deep exploration of a single area/language but more of a survey showing the student the breadth of the field. They also have to pass it and the rest of the gateway series with a B or better to declare the major.

One of the nice parts about teaching in the technical area is the there are definitive correct answers and cultural subjectivity is minimal. It also makes it hard for parent to hover.

[bain_sidhe]

40. Not entirely true

My dearly beloved teaches college, and we still laugh/cry about the parent who called him (and his Dean) repeatedly to complain about his kid's failing grade for not turning his his final project - which was half the grade. It was a computer graphics course, and the "final project" was actually an animation that had been started at the beginning of the semester, and "interim graded" at various stages of completion.

[yasmina27]

20. I use(d) a behavior ticket

I say used because I am, as of yesterday, officially on disability retirement.

Anyway, the behavior ticket is similar to a traffic ticket for minor offenses. I would check off the proper offense (not being prepared, inappropriate talking, etc.) and lay it on the student's desk during teaching. No big deal was made, class was not stopped, no interruptions.

Each student was able to receive 1 ticket w/ no punishment - a warning.

Each subsequent ticket resulted in progressive disciplinary actions. The one that scared the kids the most (7th & 8th grade) was the first one. I would call the STUDENT at home AROUND DINNERTIME and let THEM explain why a teacher was calling to talk to them.

The ticket worked extremely well, if you are consistent with it for the first month. After that, most of the time just giving a student "the look" would stop any inappropriate action in its tracks.

If any teacher out there would like more detailed information about the behavior ticket, let me know and I can send you a link to an online article I wrote about it.

Now of course this did not apply to severe offenses, such as talking back, theft, etc. Those were always referred immediately to the administrators, who mostly were very supportive.

I'm quite sad to be done in the classroom. I really enjoyed teaching middle school, but will not be sorry not to have to deal with the administrative bullshit.

[tonysam]

39. Some teachers use behavior tickets, which students

have to take home to their parents, and the parents sign and return them.

Other teachers use daily behavior notes for students who are behavior problems, which again the parent sees and signs.

[greenbriar]

21. I rarely have issues in my class, but I spend the first few weeks working on respect and trust

my kids think of me as their second "mama" and a lot of them call me "mama greenbriar"

but I teach 8th graders.

I told them the first day "if I call you sweetie or dear, I am not hitting on you, I am treating you like I would my daughter and I call her sweetie and dear"...for some reason that stuck with them and the tradition was born.

Many of my kids have pretty rough lives and broken homes many times over. Having someone that respects them and treats them with kindness goes a long way.


Life is not perfect in my room and I do have problems once in a while, I usually have them cool off outside my door and I speak to them privately. If that does not resolve it, a trip to the office is the last resort.

The office knows my style and they know if one of my kids is sent, I have used up all of my resources and it is pretty serious.

On the rare occasion that I have a fight, I do not deal with it, both parties go straight to the office to sort it out...I do NOT deal with fights.

Once the students know that, rarely does it happen again.

[LibDemAlways]

48. I'm a sub who is called on to fill in for teachers at all grade levels.

I prefer middle schoolers. They have lost the innocence of elementary school kids, but they haven't yet acquired the "attitude" of high schoolers. They are just generally a lot of fun to be around. You sound like the kind of teacher I wish my daughter had had a few years ago. Would have made her middle school experience more enjoyable!

[Odin2005]

22. Simple: They don't.

If they try the parents of the brat or brats would be up in arms that the school was accusing their "little angels" of being bad. I remember 8th Grade Earth Science and out teacher was this little 4" 11' woman who was terrified of many of her students.

[KittyWampus]

28. What my Dad did WAY back when.... be very tough but fair. And he would give projects to kids

He wasn't just a science teacher. He also did some administrative stuff for science teacher organizations. So he'd get the trouble makers to come in after school and have them do paper work etc. He'd buy them pizza and give them stuff to do.

Oh, and he didn't JUST have the trouble makers. He mixed in some of the honors students with them. So the advanced kids helped the slow ones too and the loose wheels got some constructive discipline from my Dad whil learning responsibility and how to get along with others.

Many, many kids have contacted my Dad over the years to tell him how much he meant to them. He was a bad-ass you didn't want to cross, but he also was the kind of teacher you felt good pleasing.

Reading this, it occurs to me that probably a lot of kids need HEALTHY discipline at home and if they don't get it, may very well respond to a teacher who offers it.

[seabeyond]

30. in over a decade of kids going to school, the biggest issue is talking in class

that a detention, writing a hundred times, or a talking to did the trick.

there are kids that would not even consider being a discipline issue for the school. would not even be a thought in their head. these kids did not come to this place with a swat on an ass. that isnt what develops a child to be respectful

[JonQ]

31. Mostly they don't

they let things slide until one day the kid does something really egregious and they have to bring in the police.

[Berry Cool]

33. I don't know why people make it an "either-or" thing--why they assume the only way to discipline

is to paddle or hit.

I am against hitting, but I am also against kids acting like little hellions. I believe there has got to be a better way to get kids to behave, and that unless they're complete sociopaths, the key starts with getting them to put themselves in the place of others and truly realize how their misbehavior makes things worse for those who don't deserve it. Making it clear that there will be consequences and deprivations in return for misbehavior is also important (they don't have to be hitting).

As for parents who think their little darlings can do no wrong, they have always been with us and they are sadly responsible for why so many kids misbehave. The kids have learned from their parents that "it's all about you" and never been thwarted in a single action. Part of discipline is learning that it's not "all about you" and that you have to share the world with others and that their feelings and desires count as much as, and sometimes more than, your own.

Of course, you also get the opposite of the parent who thinks their kid can do no wrong--the parent who thinks their kid can do no right, and is willing to believe the absolute worst about their child at every possible opportunity. My mother was one of those. I was a damn well-behaved kid who can still remember the times I had to explain, crying in despair because I had apparently not earned my mother's benefit of the doubt (I never would; none of her children would), that I had NOT done the thing some child (who was lying to protect themselves) or adult (who was believing a lie told them by their child to protect themselves) had accused me of doing. I loved my mother dearly, but it broke my heart that she believed that I was like every other kid when it came to wrongdoing: that I'd do it in a heartbeat, then lie to cover it up. I really wasn't like that.

But that, unfortunately, is what you get when you have parents who believe (as authoritarian parents do) that kids are naturally bad. It's as bad as the parents who think children are naturally little angels. They're neither. They're just naive little human beings who are usually more self-interested than not, but neither particularly bad nor good unless one trains them to be so. Also, a great deal of their bad behavior is mere attempts at getting attention, and if they received the right amount and kind of attention, it would stop.

[midnight]

34. I think under no child left behind there is a provision for punishment...

[walldude]

35. It's up to the parents mostly.

Now days they send the kids to the Principles office. When I was young it was the Vice Principle who was the bad guy. :)

Things are a lot different now though. I used to get away with all kinds of crap in school. Not doing work, cutting classes, smoking dope, that kind of shit. The only time I would get in trouble at home was when my report card came home. Now I have 3 kids in school and we have this wonderful tool called the Parent Portal. I can go online every day and see what assignments are missing, what classes my kids missed or cut, what they have for homework that night, and their grades are posted daily so we can see how they are doing.

I don't know how the rest of the country is but in my city there is no reason for a parent not to know how their kid is doing every day. Sucks for the kids, great for the parents.

[femmocrat]

57. I agree on the Parent Portal.

It's an excellent resource and parents seem to be using it a lot. I would rather get an email than a phone call since I travel to four buildings. I don't have time to play "phone tag" with parents.

[LibDemAlways]

37. First, the past. My husband attended Catholic school in the 1950's. He lived

in fear of the nuns who had an accurate aim with a tennis ball and weren't afraid to throw it at a kid's head for an offense as inconsequential as coming up with a wrong answer. He remembers his school days as a nightmare of living in constant fear of being hurt.

I attended public school (1958-1970) and the only teacher I encountered who routinely hit kids (boys only) was Mr. Smith, the 8th grade science teacher. Mr. Smith was a former Marine who believed that the only way to deal with an errant boy was to have him come up in front of the class, display his open palm, and receive three whacks with a ruler. To my knowledge Mr. Smith never got into any sort of trouble for his discipline technique and he retired in the late 1980's.

Today I am a substitute teacher in a suburban district and routinely encounter kids who mouth off and are rude and hostile. The high school seniors are actually the worst though I've encountered poor behavior at every level. The only recourse teachers have these days is to send a child to the dean, counselor, or principal or arrange a conference with the parents, who are often very defensive. The schools in my district bend over backwards to avoid taking stringent measures or upsetting parents. Recently a kid flung the "n" word at a black student. I immediately sent him to the office, and he was back in less than 5 minutes. You are correct. The kids today all too frequently have the upper hand.

I suppose the best the schools can do today is try to achieve a happy medium. Hire teachers who are firm but fair in setting and enforcing standards of good conduct. Hire administrators who aren't afraid of parents and who back the teachers. Try harder to work with parents to resolve conflicts. (As an aside, last year I took on a six week assignment. A parent went ballistic on me, writing a nasty three-page letter, when I changed her child's seat. I immediately called her and thoroughly explained the situation. At that point she backed off and became a lot more reasonable.) Recognize that discipline has always been a problem in school and will always be a problem in school. You can't change human nature.

[tonysam]

38. They have to be careful for fear of lawsuits

Most teachers I know use "progressive discipline" on students such as stop lights, colored tickets, etc. Positive reinforcement is especially common in the early grades, with prizes from prize boxes, etc. "Discipline" is not the same thing as "punishment," by the way.

This of course is at the elementary level. Upper elementary grade teachers often use a team point system with rewards at the end of the week.

[Warren Stupidity]

41. I'm actually shocked that the consensus view here is 'swat the brats'.

WTF?

[JCMach1]

42. Essentially what they teach in Schools of Education is Pavlovian behavior modification

Just modified to sound nicer for children.

[noamnety]

43. Woah, what school did you learn that at?

My program had me reading a variety of philosophies, including Alfie Kohn - I ended up exchanging a couple of emails with him when I was working on my degree.

[JCMach1]

58. One of the reasons I avoided schools of education like the plague...

I believe Assertive Discipline is still the main method used in Florida schools:

...Assertive discipline is a structured, systematic approach designed to assist educators in running an organized, teacher-in-charge classroom environment. Lee and Marlene Canter, when consulting for school systems, found that many teachers were unable to control undesirable behavior that occurred in their classrooms. The Cantors, rightfully so, attributed this to a lack of training in the area of behavior management. Based on their research and the foundations of assertiveness training and applied behavior analysis, they developed a common sense, easy-to-learn approach to help teachers become the captains of their classrooms and positively influence their students' behavior. Today, it is the most widely used "canned" (prepared/packaged) behavior management program. Assertive discipline has evolved since the mid 70's from an authoritarian approach to one that is more democratic and cooperative.

The Cantors believe that you, as the teacher, have the right to determine what is best for your students, and to expect compliance. No pupil should prevent you from teaching, or keep another student from learning. Student compliance is imperative in creating and maintaining an effective and efficient learning environment. To accomplish this goal, teachers must react assertively, as opposed to aggressively or non assertively. ... http://maxweber.hunter.cuny.edu/pub/eres/EDSPC715_MCINTYRE/AssertiveDiscipline.html

[noamnety]

62. I'm confused now.

It sounds like you are telling us what goes on in education schools without having any actual experience in one. Maybe you aren't the best source of information here.

Education schools teach about many different discipline theories, not just one, and the students learn about pros and cons of each - the schools don't just dump one method on their student teachers and say "here, this is the one you should be using."

[LWolf]

44. We use various versions of

"positive behavior support."

To be honest, I'm ambivalent. I prefer intrinsic to extrinsic rewards. There is research to back up PBS, though.

It involves:

Intensive positive recognition for positive behavior, including very basic good manners; the research backed ratio of positive to negative consequences is 5-1. This is hard, frankly, because we aren't used to stopping and commenting, rewarding, etc. when everything is going right. We generally don't stop what we're doing to intervene unless something is going wrong. I'm pretty good at verbal positives on the spot, but less consistent with the handing out of incentives.

A long list of things to do when a student steps out of line, which include, but are not ilmited to:

Reminder/redirection; private conversation; note/phone call home; loss of privilege (which amounts to not much, since we hardly have any recess to take away, and with the exceptionally long days on our 4-day school week, we are reluctant to take away their only non-academic time); send to another room for awhile; send to counselor; send to the office informally; send to the office formally, with a write-up; in-school suspension, out-of-school suspension; request for parent/student/school conference to address behaviors.

The best, quickest way to end a problem behavior is for parents to get involved. Unfortunately, not all will, and some reinforce the behaviors by defending them.

[proud2BlibKansan]

45. Sorry Wolf but I HATE PBS

And I'm a trainer :)

It's a far too simplistic program that doesn't begin to meet the needs of urban kids.

[LWolf]

49. No need to apologize, lol.

I know few teachers, myself included, that do. And I'm on the site "team" that is supposed to promote it.

Too many levels of extrinsic rewards.

Generally, I find that it morphs back into the kinds of things that teachers always do anyway without someone constantly pushing it. It's a high-maintenance thing.

The 5-1 ratio is a helpful thing to know, though.

[proud2BlibKansan]

52. Do you do the matrix?

It's all about the matrix. They had us trainers in an all day session and all we really learned how to do was build the stupid matrix. And seriously, good teachers already had something similar posted in their classrooms.

PBS is mandated in our state (someone is making BIG bucks, LOL) so they send 'experts' around to inspect our schools. If you have the matrix up all over every bit of available wall space, you pass the inspection.

I do have one good thing to say about PBS. They make you keep data. So principals who hide conduct cards from teachers (a common practice in my district) are being busted because the cards are the data PBS wants. This is the first year in decades I can find a conduct card in the office and they aren't locked up.

For those who don't know what the matrix is, here's a sample:
http://mountainview.ashe.k12.nc.us/parents/handbook/pbs_matrix.htm

[LWolf]

54. Yes.

We adapted something we already had, related to the "self-managers" program.

Not that we actually spend a lot of time teaching behaviors in all those areas. We don't have any mandates about posting; just suggested schedules for teaching. "Suggested" being the key word.

It's not that I don't think teaching, and reinforcing, expectations are important. I do.

We are so overwhelmed with so much to do in so little time. PBS is another thing to do, added on. It doesn't integrate all that naturally into the day.

[RedCappedBandit]

51. I was surprised to find that corporal punishment is not illegal in many states

[proud2BlibKansan]

53. It's legal in my state but banned by board policy in my district

But when I first started teaching 30 years ago, principals paddled kids quite frequently.

[Toots]

64. Interesting how corporal punishment is allowed in mostly Republican States.

Not at all Progressive and the results are evident all across the USA

[PhDeverit]

65. Child buttock-battering vs. DISCIPLINE:

Child buttock-battering vs. DISCIPLINE:

Child buttock-battering for the purpose of gaining compliance is nothing more than an inherited bad habit.

Its a good idea for people to take a look at what they are doing, and learn how to DISCIPLINE instead of hit.

I think the reason why television shows like "Supernanny" and "Dr. Phil" are so popular is because that is precisely what many (not all) people are trying to do.

There are several reasons why child bottom-slapping isn't a good idea. Here are some good, quick reads recommended by professionals:

Plain Talk About Spanking
by Jordan Riak,

The Sexual Dangers of Spanking Children
by Tom Johnson,

NO VITAL ORGANS THERE, So They Say
by Lesli Taylor M.D. and Adah Maurer Ph.D.

Most compelling of all reasons to abandon this worst of all bad habits is the fact that buttock-battering can be unintentional sexual abuse for some children. There is an abundance of educational resources, testimony, documentation, etc available on the subject that can easily be found by doing a little research with the recommended reads-visit www.nospank.net.

Just a handful of those helping to raise awareness of why child bottom-slapping isn't a good idea:

American Academy of Pediatrics,
American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry,
Center For Effective Discipline,
PsycHealth Ltd Behavioral Health Professionals,
Churches' Network For Non-Violence,
Nobel Peace Prize recipient Archbishop Desmond Tutu,
Parenting In Jesus' Footsteps,
Global Initiative To End All Corporal Punishment of Children,
United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child.

In 26 countries, child corporal punishment is prohibited by law (with more in process). In fact, the US was the only UN member that did not ratify the Convention on the Rights of the Child.

[femmocrat]

56. I learned long ago NOT to send them to the principal.

Doing so immediately identifies you as a teacher who has "no discipline" or who cannot handle the class. Most teachers use the reinforcement methods that have been outlined by others in this thread.

We have a Code of Discipline with different levels of offenses. Only the most serious (fighting, weapons, drugs, etc.) are sent to the principal.

I hate calling parents. They usually take the child's side and imply that the student is only having problems in my class. In short, they are in denial.

[kwassa]

60. I generally beat my students with a large cudgel.

when none of them can explain the meaning of the word "cudgel" to me.

It works as a class demonstration project.

but seriously, folks,

Discipline problems vary depending on schools and demographics, and with administrative policies as well.

We have an unofficial PBIS that has worked well for us. I also hate extrinsic rewards, but recognize their effectiveness. I also hate treating student issues with meds, but recognize that they work very well for some kids with major ADHD issues.

I also teach in a nice middle-class public school, with only a few kids from really poor backgrounds. Our system does a cool thing: it breaks up poor neighborhoods into different schools, which avoids both a high population in a few schools, and allows these kids to get more attention. It really helps.

[backscatter712]

61. A good teacher doesn't need to use physical punishment.

I was studying this very topic in my psychology class last semester. Spanking is psychologically damaging, and increases problems later in life for kids subjected to it, and there are plenty of other methods that are more effective. Any good teacher should know this.

[donco6]

63. We have some schools that use Restorative Justice.

We're urban, high poverty. It takes a lot of time, but the kids seem to prefer it over some other, more simplistic models.

We haven't hit kids for . . . 30 years? More?

[trayfoot]

66. Teachers Discipline on the basis of THEIR skills.......

Having taught over 3 decades, I have seen student behavior AND PARENT BEHAVIOR deteriorate substantially. We were allowed to paddle during the 70s and early 80s. Rarely was that even done. Nowadays, suppressing classroom disruption is really up to the teacher and the cache of skills they have. I wouldn't say that this can take care of every situation, but it will take care of most. I agree with someone above who spoke of having a place of "detention" for students who have been suspended - instead of giving them an unearned vacation. Parents absolutely need to "step up to the plate" and start "to parent" - not ignore, be a pal to their children. Parents need to show respect and appreciate schools, teachers, and education (in general).