America's Culture Problem

[AllentownJake]

Culture of Short Term Thinking

The United States has devolved into a culture where the long view of actions aren't considered. Results are expected immediately and unintended consequences of actions are not fully considered. Your value is measured quarter to quarter. It is kind of odd because our lifespans have gotten longer by 30 years in the past 100. You'd think with people living longer, they'd think more about the future. This culture has led to the day trading culture we have now. Companies managing results for their quarterly earnings. It has overall been destructive to the business entities and the overall economy.

For those who might jump on me concerning this administration, unintended consequences and short-term thinking are generally the focal point of my frustration.

Culture of Positive Thinking

Stating that something is wrong has almost become taboo in 21st century America. Actually trying to solve a problem has become even more taboo. The status quo is great. It is kind of ironic because every place I've ever worked has said their least favorite answer is that is the way we always do things, however in every organization actually trying to change way things were done becomes a bloody battle normally resulting in the status quo modified slightly. We have a lot of platitudes and corporate speak we like to toss around in both business and our everyday lives. Truth be told actually questioning the goodness of the system is frowned upon. It is the best it can be and everyone should be happy.

Essentially this boils down to spin. You have to create another alternative reality for whatever issue there is to worry about, so you don't worry about it anymore.

People want more from their lives. A guy won in 2008 screaming about change.


Culture of Mindless Entertainment

Probably a result of the TV age, but at least when it began, there were some really high quality series. Twilight Zone, I Love Lucy, Mash, All in the Family, Laugh In, etc had some sort of social commentary and their was generally a moral lesson to be told in their stories. I can't even watch most Network TV outside of Lost anymore. News has gotten even more disgusting. It's purpose is to entertain not inform. Bad propaganda. Music also sucks. Pop Culture bullshit. Movies still can produce a quality product every now and than, but the top grossing film is still Titanic.

The human brain is no different than any other computer Garbage in, Garbage out.

Culture of ignorance being a good thing

People are actually proud of being stupid and not knowing much or not paying attention. Don't need to expand too much on that.

Culture of cheating

We cheat in America, a lot. Honesty is not a value. Not getting caught is a value. I don't think I have to provide too many examples of this. This one is self evident by walking out your front door.

No Sacrifice

Whether it is the war, communities, religion institutions, etc. Sacrifices are great, as long as some other poor sap is making them. Doing something for the common good will get you a nod of approval, and a knife in the back.

Summary

Until we take a hard look in the mirror and see ourselves for what we are, we are heading in a dangerous direction as a culture/civilization. Elections will come and go, but our culture is more the problem than anything else. The problem is, some very skilled sociopaths are existing quite well in this culture, and they have no desire to change it or let people look in the mirror.

[Hannah Bell]

1. = culture of capitalism

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7390156

[AllentownJake]

2. Adam Smith would be revolted if he saw what exists today

This really hasn't become a capitalist vs. socialism argument.

It is more about fascism/neo feudalism than anything else. The worst of capitalism and socialism bound together in some twisted boot on humanity.

[Hannah Bell]

6. not meaning to get into a big argument over it, but fascism is capitalist, &

neo-feudalism is hyperbole (feudalism isn't capitalist).

The process of capitalist reproduction generates many, if not all, of the cultural features listed.

Short-term outlook, for example, is very clearly related.

The way we produce our living generates our culture.


Adam Smith didn't think capitalism would last. He predicted eventual stasis r/t declining profit rates; lack of profit opportunities for the volumes of capital available.

Similar things Marx picked up on later.

The declining rate of profit leads to innovations designed to pump it up again (e.g. faster circuits of profit = short-term thinking); those innovations in turn affect workers in terms of organization of workplaces & skill & personality sets demanded; which in turn affect social relations & cultural production (e.g. in the arts).

The review I linked is worth a read & relates to your list.

[AllentownJake]

8. I agree with most of Karl's critiques

I think his solution is ridiculous. If that explains my thinking.

You have a society that is socialist in nature, in that it provides subsidies to large private institutions and the wealthy, and capitalist in nature in that the wealthy move the money around.

They use legal entities as cover. It is like feudalism in that you have an aristocracy.

[Hannah Bell]

12. He didn't provide a "solution". This misconception is the product of hostile commentary

*about* Marx & future political developments. The bulk of his work is about the mechanics of capitalism, the history of economic forms, & general philosophy.

His thesis was that capitalism contained inherent contradictions that would eventually *force* transition. Beyond that, on the specifics of what things would look like, how they'd be organized, he didn't go into much detail:

"I don't write recipes for the cookshops of the future."


Capitalism = socialized production with the value of surplus production appropriated privately.

It's not "socialist" to subsidize the rich.

It's not specifically "capitalist" to move money around.


Feudalism is distinct from capitalism in that production wasn't undertaken for profit, but to fulfill sets of reciprocal obligations & needs.

e.g. peasants were hereditarily "attached" to their lord's land & had the right to produce their own food, shelter, etc. with its resources, but owed their lord a certain share of their production & labor (e.g. road-building/military).

Lords owed similar to king who was putative "owner" of all lands, granting their use to lords.


Whereas with capitalism, money is invested to produce more money, profit, not specific goods. If phoney mortgages yield the highest profits, that's where the money will go, & that's what will be produced.

No one owes anyone anything or has "right" to anything but what's contracted for. In this sense, capitalism is *impersonal* in contrast with earlier forms -- & features like this ultimately produces a characteristic culture & individual --

How we get our living is the biggest pressure shaping how we organize our lives, what we believe, etc. How we get our living is how we survive.

The article i linked is worth a read & related to your list.

[AllentownJake]

15. I have it bookmarked

Will read later.

BTW keep posting what you do. I enjoy reading your post.

[blindpig]

33. Great series of posts, Hanna

Very clear. It ain't about 'them, it's about us, our lives, our time, which in the end is all we got.

[Odin2005]

36. My main criticism of Marx his is assertion that beliefs are....

....completely determined by economic forces. More often then not it's the other way around, common beliefs influence economic development. That is why the Graeco-Roman world never had an Industrial Revolution even though they invented the steam engine.

[AllentownJake]

37. If you don't have an issue with slavery

Why would you need a machine to make labor easier. Good point.

However the black plague had more to do with anything as far as the industrial revolution. The Europeans had no problem with serfdom.

[amborin]

65. Marx did not say that in all his works....

he provided a very nuanced theory in the German Ideology

Marx and Marxists would be the first to argue that it's men and women who DECIDE whether to implement some technological change or not

the other way around....well Max Weber argued that in "The Protestant Ethic and the Spirit of
Capitalism"

that ideas led to economic change....

however...the reality is much more complicated....

[Odin2005]

79. Oh, I understand that, Unfortunately it seems to many Marxists DON'T have that nuanced view.

[Hannah Bell]

75. " completely determined by economic forces" - no. dialectic. feedback.

[blindpig]

83. Put down the comic book

and read this:

http://pubs.socialistreviewindex.org.uk/isj68/molyneux.htm

[readmoreoften]

100. That's called "An Idealist View of History" (as in non-materialist)

If Greeks invented the steam engine, according to the Idealist View of History, the steam engine would've become popular throughout Greece. Why wasn't it? Because industrialization hadn't yet occurred. That's what a MATERIALIST would tell you (and they'd be correct.)

However, Marx was not a pure materialist. That is a major deviation from his thought (economism). He obviously had place for thought and invention in his theory. Hint: If he didn't, he wouldn't've written a theory.

[Odin2005]

103. It didn't become popular because Graeco-Roman cultural biases.

The Graeco-Roman world did not have the right underlying religious-cultural worldview that would make an industrial revolution possible. The Greeks, for example, were well know for a very strong and wealthy ceramic industry and mass-produced pottery on a massive scale, that COULD have been the seeds of industrialization the way Industrialization emerged from cloth-making in England. The thing getting in the way was that the Graeco-Roman ideal of success was not being a wealthy businessman, though there were lots of wealthy businessmen, the ideal of success was being a gentleman farmer with a plantation that let hired hands, or later slaves, do his work. the seeds of the cultural mentality that allowed Western industrialization originated out of the Medieval monastic tradition of work as good and godly, which then became urbanized and came to prefer money over land.

[DemReadingDU]

41. bookmarking for later, thanks for the link

[dbt]

3. "Ignernt and proud."

My Goddess, how many Country songs have hit the top of the charts using that theme!

[AllentownJake]

4. Backlash

Some very smart, not so well meaning people fucked them for the past 30 years. Embracing stupid is their way of fighting back, because the same smart people are doing all they can to ensure they stay stupid.

[vadawg]

5. probuably the same amount of hip hop, rap and pop that proclaim the same thing

oh or are you saying that only country music folk are ignorant and proud of it...

[AllentownJake]

7. Celebrating ignorance is a backlash

To very smart people, who were not well meaning fucking people. It is class issue, not a race issue.

[GreenArrow]

42. Ignorance is bliss.

Don't worry, be happy.

[AllentownJake]

44. When someone tells someone they "sold out"

They generally are saying you became one of the takers. You used the education you got to take from others.

Some of the backlash against education, is what people in communities go on to do after they get education.

That and the elites ensure people have to do some pretty shitty things to get educated.

[Echo In Light]

16. IMO, what's more frightening are those who are learned/profe$$ional, yet ignorant re many issues

Those types tend to have a never ending well to draw from of trivializing factoid stats, and establishment, busine$$ friendly approved 'logic' necessary to downplay any and all concerns of the various "loony" lefty groups.

[AllentownJake]

17. That is the middle/upper middle management complex

They actually know it is fucked up, but they have been given incentives/threats of punishment to keep their mouths shut. Their job is to continue the lie, and than to take the blame if something does blow up.

Generally speaking their ignorance more relies on the taking the blame part. They are ignorant that they are expendable and are actually quite surprised when they get their asses kicked when something goes wrong.

The carrot is if they are ruthless enough, they will be elevated out of their paradigm into the liar role.

They also get the most brainwashing attention through motivational speakers spouting the nonsense.

As an auditor, I've seen this in practice countless times. Generally my role was to stab the wounded on a battlefield after something blew up.

[Echo In Light]

18. Yet there are 'true believers' in that particular form of institutional/cultural indoctrination

One encounters this attitude on a routine basis in the day to day work world for the working poor (paycheck to paycheck) ... the ones who can always be counted upon to take the offered carrot as doing so is safely framed within comforting propaganda: You're Getting Ahead!...and Bettering Yourself, Inc! Why would you NOT want to have More Responsibility and CONTROL Over Others for MORE $?!

How un-American ;)

[AllentownJake]

19. Don't get me wrong

If the system was honest, that is a good thing. Rewarding good behavior. The problem is what we have determined to be good behavior, is not beneficial to society as a whole right now.

The reason there is a need for all the motivational speakers and other nonsense is people's natural inclination is to feel bad about the things they are being asked to do. You need to desensitize people into doing the awful, thus you roll out the feel good Magnolia type speaker to encourage people that what they are doing is moral. They will have less trouble with the upcoming generation, the conditioning began at a younger age.

They also invaded and took control of their two biggest enemies of the 20th century, the Christian Church and progressive movements/democratic party.

[Echo In Light]

20. On some counts, undoubtedly. As where other children will have more accurate perception of empire

... and resist its machinations as best as possible.

[AllentownJake]

22. Their domination is almost complete

as such their collapse is about to begin.

The problem with the system they've created is it is not sustainable. Eventually all the short-term thinking catches up, the brain washing prevents people from developing solutions, and the sociopaths start to eat each other (which is what this economic crisis is all about the last thing they have to devour is the US Government which has enabled them for 30 years itself).

The best comparison I can give is Soviet Russia.

[Greyhound]

64. The degradation of the prole's education system. We've supplanted education with job training.

Not much of a step since that is what the system of public (prole) education was designed for in the first place.

Add in the monopolization of "approved texts" by a nut-job family in Texas and, voila, millions of "educated" proles with no knowledge of anything outside their "field".
:kick: & R

[FiveGoodMen]

91. That seems like the only purpose of country music.

And the culture that listens to it.

[democrank]

9. Culture "problem" is an understatement.

We teach people that even if you`re 70, be ashamed of a wrinkle but make sure you cheer if you see naked men in a pyramid wearing black hoods. We vote for politicians that help fund secret torture sites but vote down more affordable prescription drug prices. We claim we`re "Number One" but don`t mind being way down the list in infant mortality rates. We`re even proud we have more people in prison than any other industrialized nation....more gun deaths too.

I`m an old person who has a lot of years to compare these times to. It ain`t pretty.

[AllentownJake]

10. Wait till you see my generation and the one after mine

The generation before filled us with more violent images than any preceding generation. The generation after me has realistic video games to act it out and the SAW movies.

Lucky for my psyche, I was done learning behavior at Super Mario Brothers.

[femrap]

90. Awomen and amen!

Our culture stinks...reeks, in fact.

[Echo In Light]

11. Spirit Caravan - Brainwashed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGavqvkxrhQ

I'll take your evil wind
And give it right back to ya
Hungry buzzards are waiting
On the grey fence of ignorance
It's a classic case
They obfuscate
A brainwashed populace

Screaming crows and sirens
A normal world is cryin'
Bright bird of redemption
Winged truth with eyes of fire
One more fool
Divide and rule
A brainwashed populace

You dance around the question
Cause the answers you must hide
You crept into this dimension
Now be lost through all time
It's a classic case
They obfuscate
A brainwashed populace

[SunriseStorm]

13. "Addicted To Nonsense" - Chris Hedges

Addicted to Nonsense

http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/addicted_to_nonsense_20091129/

Posted on Nov 30, 2009

By Chris Hedges

Will Tiger Woods finally talk to the police? Who will replace Oprah? (Not that Oprah can ever be replaced, of course.) And will Michaele and Tareq Salahi, the couple who crashed President Barack Obama’s first state dinner, command the hundreds of thousands of dollars they want for an exclusive television interview? Can Levi Johnston, father of former Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin’s grandson, get his wish to be a contestant on “Dancing With the Stars”?

The chatter that passes for news, the gossip that is peddled by the windbags on the airwaves, the noise that drowns out rational discourse, and the timidity and cowardice of what is left of the newspaper industry reflect our flight into collective insanity. We stand on the cusp of one of the most seismic and disturbing dislocations in human history, one that is radically reconfiguring our economy as it is the environment, and our obsessions revolve around the trivial and the absurd.

What really matters in our lives—the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, the steady deterioration of the dollar, the mounting foreclosures, the climbing unemployment, the melting of the polar ice caps and the awful reality that once the billions in stimulus money run out next year we will be bereft and broke—doesn’t fit into the cheerful happy talk that we mainline into our brains. We are enraptured by the revels of a dying civilization. Once reality shatters the airy edifice, we will scream and yell like petulant children to be rescued, saved and restored to comfort and complacency. There will be no shortage of demagogues, including buffoons like Sarah Palin, who will oblige. We will either wake up to face our stark new limitations, to retreat from imperial projects and discover a new simplicity, as well as a new humility, or we will stumble blindly toward catastrophe and neofeudalism.

Celebrity worship has banished the real from public discourse. And the adulation of celebrity is pervasive. The frenzy around political messiahs, or the devotion of millions of viewers to Oprah, is all part of the yearning to see ourselves in those we worship. We seek to be like them. We seek to make them like us. If Jesus and “The Purpose Driven Life” won’t make us a celebrity, then Tony Robbins or positive psychologists or reality television will. We are waiting for our cue to walk onstage and be admired and envied, to become known and celebrated. Nothing else in life counts.

Snip ......

[AllentownJake]

14. A friend who lived in China for a time

Was surprised that state TV mirrored American TV more than he thought it would. It is a brilliant form of distraction. He was expecting N.Korea style communist propaganda. He got American style sensationalism opened up his eyes, and mine when he told me about it.

[KharmaTrain]

21. American Myopia

Or call it "exceptionalism". We hear it constantly how we're the biggest, the strongest, the richest...the "best" nation in the world. It's a non-stop drumbeat from when one is very young to their last day. It's a meme that has been abused, especially by politicians, to mean that this country is perfect and superior...a major character flaw that has cost us many times in the past 60 years.

We're the modern-day Roman Empire...hellbent on reshaping the world in "our image"...one that is manufactured by corporations and spread by the media...a culture of consumerism and individuality. A century ago, this was attractive to millions who lived in backward and repressed societies, but today this "exceptionalism" has hampered our standing around the world. It's made us a culture of intolerant and ignorant people as everything is viewed stricly on American interests. There's little context...understanding of other cultures and history as well as a corrupt corporate media that finds it easier to print press releases than investigate...to fill their airtime with partisan talking heads than have reporters and REAL journalists reporting from around the world.

People here won't look in the mirror because it will expose their own hypocrisy. One can't say we're not the "greatest country on earth" without being berated as "UnAmerican" or honestly call out people for their own greed and selfishness as this is what fuels the corporate machine. It's a national pyscopathy...one that has always lived with the jingoism and its assumed as gospel.

[AllentownJake]

23. Rome lasted 1000 years

I think the Soviet Union is a more apt comparison.

[KharmaTrain]

24. Britain Would Even Be More Apt...

The glory of the British Empire was around 200 years. We've outlasted the Soviet system and its collapse could be said for the opposite reason this country got strong and now has lost its focus. Their problem was a lack of a consumer society that led to a government that subsidized themselves into bankruptcy. This country went the other direction...excessive consumerism and massive debt. Either way, the leaders benefit and the workers shoulder the burden.

[AllentownJake]

25. The Soviets didn't have the resources to feed themselves

They had plenty of fuel though. In the 1980s we had a rather genius idea to knock them out by collapsing the price of oil worldwide, and making sure that their number one resource bought them less foodstuff. Their political structure did not enable them to make hard choices and they collapsed. Sound familiar?

America has no shortage of food, we do have quite a shortage of energy as evidenced by our constant expensive interventions in a particular area of the world. The emperor Nixon was quite genius to get them to tag their commodity to our dollar. They have a lot invested in us not blowing up, however as the world becomes more interesting, they are starting to have incentives to hedge their bets.

If the Arab world ever wants to pull the plug on us, they can pretty much do it over night. It's why we invest so much time over there. Russia wouldn't mind a little payback for our undermining them in the 80s.

China is the wild card.

[JoeyT]

61. Isn't implosion

pretty much what's going to happen to us the second oil comes off the dollar standard?
They're already planning on that.

[AllentownJake]

78. That's what Cap and Trade is for nt.

[DemReadingDU]

26. Have you read Dmitry Orlov?

He saw the Soviet Union collapse and is now seeing the same types of things collapsing in the U.S.

Here is his blog
http://cluborlov.blogspot.com/


Post-Soviet Lessons for a Post-American Century By Dmitry Orlov
http://docs.google.com/Doc?id=dtxqwqr_20dc52sm

This article is like a mini-novel, 23 pages, but quite enlightening.




Good post, agree on all points.

[AllentownJake]

28. Heard of him

Will have to read later. There was a french economist who predicted the collapse of the Soviet Union in 15 years in the 70s. Everyone laughed. The fall of the Soviets was rather sudden. Once America collapsed world oil prices, the fall was rather fast.

Gorbachev walked into power as the system was melting around him. Eventually the states they were getting resources from, but also in turn had to support economically, all fell down when the Soviet Union lost its ability to trade oil for food for their own empire. That coupled with a quagmire in Afghanistan.

Putin is still bitter about this, and if given the opportunity he will do the same to us, just for spite.

[DemReadingDU]

31. Here are an Orlov audio link and a video

You could listen or watch while you do other things

2/24/09 This is an audio link, appx 1 hour (takes awhile to load)
Dmitry Orlov speaking at Point Reyes Books 2/23/09
Orlov discusses the prospects, compares the parallels and differences, and argues that the Soviet Union was much better prepared for collapse than we are in the US. He discusses different ways of looking at food, shelter, transportation and security.

http://web.mac.com/bgong/Site/Home_Page/Entries/2009/2/23_Dmitry_Orlov_speaking_at_Point_Reyes_Books.html
or
http://tinyurl.com/bhwvzf

Here is a video of him giving a talk in Dublin, Ireland, in June 2009,
appx 1 hour
As Orlov said in the video, Americans don't know it yet, but the majority have already purchased their last car. In addition, Orlov talks about food, shelter, transportation and security.
http://www.vimeo.com/5592536

edit: or you could watch from a link in his website. interesting comments
http://cluborlov.blogspot.com/2009/07/video-of-public-lecture.html

[AllentownJake]

32. Have to go out

but will book mark for later.

Soviets had less and their recent history was one of brutal repression, therefore the fall wasn't as dramatic. Americans psychologically are not prepared for any major reduction in standard of living we jump off ledges during recessions.

My prediction is our reaction will be war. Brutal nasty awful angry war, possibly involving nuclear weapons.

[DemReadingDU]

35. war - Isn't that what we are doing in Afghanistan?

possibly Iran and/or Pakistan and/or Yemen?

Currently, the gov is doing whatever it can to delay the inevitable. Because once the bubble bursts, there will be no stopping the deflation and nasty ugly repercussions for a long time.

And Americans aren't psychologically prepared, for all the reasons in your OP.

[AllentownJake]

39. When I say war

I mean a draft and a World War.

The government is sustaining everything with borrowed money it has been 30 years. We got our books temporarily in order when we developed the computer and had practical uses for it and cheap energy prices of the 90s. Bush II spent that dividend and Barack is doing everything he can to try to turn the world back to what things were before he entered the scene.

Which is my main problem with Barack, he's trying to go back to where we were, instead of trying to create where we should be.

[DemReadingDU]

48. Exactly. We cannot recover to where we were

There is too much debt that needs to be resolved. People, and countries, have borrowed too much money. There are all those toxic worthless investments waiting to blow up and devastate the financial industry. Our natural resources are being depleted to be able to sustain all of us people.

The thing is that there are many people who recognize this and have various ideas to move forward. But Obama doesn't appear to listen, preferring to let his team advise him on ways for growth. Don't they realize they can't have growth without middle class jobs.

So I see them involved in a global war. A military draft will create a lot of jobs, and people at home will be doing the rationing thing, mostly from lack of stuff, lack of transportation from lack of gas (because the gas needs to be supplied for the military). But what better way to spin patriotism, it's all good for our country.

[AllentownJake]

49. Barack is trying to go back to 1998

Instead of living with the realities of 2009. Sometimes you can't go back.

[raccoon]

69. But things change a hell of a lot faster now than they did then. nt

[AllentownJake]

27. Brittain's issues was a continental competition

Italy and Germany were easily controlled city states till the 19th century. When they merged into two real states, they ended up competing with the British and French on all fronts, rather quickly.

All of the resources they acquired over 150 years of dominating Europe were eaten up in two wars. At the end of the day, they had a stalemate with Germany twice before their trans-continental cousins came and rescued them-for a price.

[Bluenorthwest]

29. Great post

I wish I could delve into all my thinking on this. You hit many areas I could ramble on about. Quarter to quarter value. So true.

[Stevenmarc]

30. We're the culture of the mediocre, the only thing we're great at is setting the bar low

[femrap]

92. and finding new ways of

playing with green pieces of paper ($) that produce NOTHING at all.

[Odin2005]

34. I agree completely. Our culture is conpletely fucked. It's depressing.

It's all "MORE! MORE! MORE! ME! ME! ME! NOW! NOW! NOW!" Disgusting.

[el_bryanto]

38. What positive things about American Culture could one build upon to solve these problems?

As for Culture of Ignorance being a good thing - a shorter form of that would be Culture of Democracy - everybody is an expert.

Bryant

[AllentownJake]

40. Restoring a sense of honor is the only way to go

However, the elites would have to lead that, as the lower classes have more honor than they do.

The elites in both political dynamics don't even have honor for the country that made them elites.

Our leaders have a might makes right belief system. They honor nothing but taking.

[el_bryanto]

43. So Americans have a sense of honor you would say? Or had one? n/t

[AllentownJake]

45. They used to shoot each other over it with single shot pistols nt.

[el_bryanto]

46. And so you would build on that to Fix Americas Culture

Wouldn't that sense of honor lead them just as likely to fight wars of aggression if their "Honor" has been wounded?

Bryant

[AllentownJake]

47. Good question

The honor code of the 17th and 18th century isn't exactly what you want going around. People were invested in their name, because it was passed to their children.

I think you need to go back to the honor code of the 1920s, 1930s, 1940s, 1950s and 1960s where people invested heavily in the communities they lived in, mostly out of a duty to pass the community to their children.

However, I don't know. People these days have been more than willing to sacrifice benefits they enjoyed for private personal gain at the expense of their children. Marriages, Property, benefits, public property, personal freedoms, are all willingly sacrificed right now if people feel they will get some sort of benefit.

You'd have to restore the value in the next generation that is replacing you. That is the only way you will get people to invest in sacrifice for the common good.

[DemReadingDU]

51. I worry for my toddler grandbabies

What kind of life will they have in 30 years when so many people today are the 'me' generation. Who is thinking about the future of the little ones? Eventually, when more people lose jobs, their house, have no income nor savings, and are hungry, more people will be forced to live in multi-generational homes. And we will learn how to get along, trade skills, grow food together and survive. Or we won't, and we will die.

edit - I believe that is one way to restore the value of the family and community, everyone pitching in and working together.

[femrap]

93. Millions of people are learning that Debt

is Bad...ie all of the foreclosures, credit cards charging 29%, and credit limits curtailed. Many are facing homelessness due to Debt.

Many are learning the insignificance of Material Goods...how many DVDs, shoes, etc. does a human being need?

This 'Ownership Society' that was pushed by W has come to its desired conclusion....get rid of the Middle Class.

I just want to make sure that when everyone gets angry, they know where to place that anger...Corporations run by the Greedy.

In the '50's to the '70's, there weren't Gated Communities. The rich saw the poor neighborhoods. Now...that is not the case.

If/when the $ collapses, we are in for a real showdown. gulp.

[Romulox]

52. Asking the same Americans who couldn't give a damn until it was THEIR ox being gored

to sacrifice for others out of a sense of "honor" is a fool's errand.

Poverty isn't new. Deindustrilization isn't new. Class based discrimination isn't new. Wealth stratification isn't new.

[AllentownJake]

53. People used to give a shit about the community they lived in

Hell, even Henry Ford, one of the biggest assholes of the 20th century gave a fuck about the area around where he lived.

[Romulox]

58. Not in my lifetime. That may be part of the brick wall you're hitting...

I never lived in the America you've described. In my lifetime, America has always been a land of contracting horizons and the hording of crumbs. Our civic leaders are corporate raiders and tax dodgers!

"Honor" simply doesn't figure; you pay the taxes after securing the nomination. Where's the honor in that?

[AllentownJake]

59. My Grandfather was a small town Mayor

Before that he spent his entire life, building that community. He sacrificed a great deal for his children and his town.

My father used to make me shovel elderly people's driveway for free because they were on fixed incomes.

They were flawed men. But they gave a shit.

They were also, Rockerfeller Republicans.

[femrap]

97. No Gated Communities back then....

Everything is cyclical. Community will return...it will have to or people will not survive. Working together will be the only answer.

[Romulox]

50. Um, the incorruptibility of our political process? How about the competence of our financial elites?

Neither of these, you say? :shrug:

[AngryAmish]

54. Of course, this is ahistoric nonsense

THis is the worst sort of "good old days" thinking which is commonplace in folks.

What you call a culture of short term thinking is in Essenes the human condition. It is the way our brains work. Hyperbolic discounting is the default human condition. Everyone thinks that way.

again, it is the human, not necessarily American, condition that makes us think positively. Everyone, everywhere gambles. If it wasn't done nothing would get done.

Mindless entertainment? Have you been overseas? have you seen their television? You remember the best shows of the past - not "My Mother the Car". Cockfights? Please compare the average fare now on TV and the average fare in the 50s. THe plots and dialog are much, much more complex nowadays.

I could go on and on. The best thing about the past is that it is past.

[BakedAtAMileHigh]

55. riiiiiight

So examining literacy levels and critical thinking is Golden Age nonsense? Your post is the most simplistic and obvious defense of status-quo thinking I have read in a long time.

Re-read the OP: the poster is simply commenting on cultural trends that have led us into a political space where discourse is replaced by reaction and separation.

I love that your big defense of the status quo is that the quality of television programming has improved: do you have any idea how weak that sounds? Is that really the best argument you can muster?

[Romulox]

56. You engage in hyperbole yourself; all cultures, everywhere, are NOT the same.

Only one country has the largest prison population in human history, for example. And only one the largest military budget. What you've posted is a truism (i.e. that people are people wherever you go--hey! that'd make a great song!)

Nevertheless, there are self-obviously certain aspects of the American society that are specifically dysfunctional. Jesus H Christ, our politicians were claiming that financial armageddon was imminent only a year or so ago. The crisis was due to specific failures of specific cultural institutions, and can't be explained away so easily as saying "folks is folks!".

[AllentownJake]

57. LOL

Nothing to see here folks move a long.

Were there cultural problems in the past, sure. But even Herbert Hoover as misguided as he was, had a deep desire to improve the status quo to reach further and do better. That is dead right now.

We'd be lucky to have a President of Hoover's character right now...let alone Roosevelt.

[Greyhound]

66. "short term thinking is in Essenes the human condition"...

Case closed.

[AngryAmish]

70. got me - spellchecker failure

[Greyhound]

72. And what an ironic error. n/t

:kick:

[BakedAtAMileHigh]

101. I love that literacy is a matter of "spellcheck" for you!

The program might not have caught it anyway: "Essene" is term used to describe an obscure ancient sect of Judaism. They authored the Dead Sea Scrolls.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

74. Standard RW conservative get off my lawn bullshit.

More Grover Norquist shit.

[femrap]

95. First of all....

there are still cockfights.

And since you don't care for the past, how are you ever going to learn from it?

TV better today? You must have a low threshold for 'entertainment' and find T & A of the highest amusement. No story, no moral, no sense of wonderment.

You must have been one of those who has suffered the American dumb-down of our public educational system. The Elites just want Cannon Fodder out of that system.

Analytic thinking is the key...and please don't go on and on.

[G_j]

60. I would include the cultural elevation of meanness as a value,

which crosses into sadism.

demonstrated by popular movies and television themes.

[femrap]

98. I believe our 'leaders' set

an example for this nation. And with W as prez, I noticed the Meanness scale escalate to new highs. Lots of bullies these days.

[AnnInLa]

62. K & R

thanks for this....really good

[SOS]

63. TV

The influence of TV can't be underestimated.
Television keeps us indoors, providing us with idiotic entertainment and corporate propaganda "news".

Interesting example:

In 2003 we had the great blackout.
Next day, people were in the park, talking, playing music, playing chess, having lunch.
Hundreds of people, all together for the first time.

At about 2 PM someone shouted "Electricity is back!"
Within 10 minutes the park was empty.
Back to the TV and the air conditioner.

[amborin]

67. Marcuse spoke to this: called TV "passive totalitarianism"

and like other neo-Marxists of the Frankfurt school, argued that the locus of exploitation had shifted in later capialism from exploitation at the point of production, to exploitation in the realm of consumption....

[Skidmore]

68. And there's the cuture of always being right.

And the culture of our way or nothing at all works. And the culture of we're a homogeneous nation, but really we're Christian (one of the stupidest, most myopic self-images ever).

[AllentownJake]

76. Define Christian

There are a lot of different sects is what I always say to that.

[Ron Green]

71. I just re-read Vance Packard's "The Hidden Persuaders,"

and more than 50 years ago it was clear that the manipulators of the "mental environment" were already up to speed in their method of addressing messages to the fear-based lower brain.

Of course there'd been state-run propaganda in Soviet Russia and Nazi Germany, but Packard showed that the marketers of products are much more clever, because the target is pleasure along with fear.

[harun]

73. Culture of inequality being a good thing.

[LeftHander]

77. We don't have a culture...it's a yogurt...past it's "Best used by" date.....nt

[Nikki Stone1]

80. K & R

.

[femrap]

81. K and R...I agree with your assessment.

There are days when I just want to be a Hermit. I don't want to go out and listen to people exposing their nonsensical opinions on a cell phone so loudly I can't hear myself think while I'm trying to buy groceries.

When did everyone all of a sudden decide they are more important than everyone else? Since they could post a video on YouTube? Does everyone think they are going to be a 'star?' (Thank you American Idol.)

Why do parents dress their 6 year-old daughters in 'prostitute outfits' bought from Walmart? And why are they making them wear bras? (Thank you stupid sitcoms about T & A).

Talking about corporations...what a difference a decade makes???!!! My last job was with a start-up etail. Just being a start-up tells someone that there are going to be lots of mistakes and learning by 'trial and error.' I'd have customers calling me raving about a mistake. I would explain in a sane and rational manner why the mistake was made and offer a financial or product 'We're sorry' gift to KEEP the customer.

I was 'written up' for telling the Truth. Boss says: "This company does NOTHING wrong." WTF happened to 'customer is always right.' I get this crap when I complain at stores about being ripped off. I just ask for the manager and tell him 'the company is wrong and I want a refund...and I'm not leaving until I get that.'

I have a new mantra in today's 'culture:' EMBRACE INEFFICIENCY. EMBRACE INEFFICIENCY.

At times, I just want to deal with beings who are 4-legged, have wings, or swim. Humans are getting on my last nerve.

2010: Big poop hits a very big and fast fan.

P.S. I read the notes of a guy who attended a big Economic Seminar with some of the heavy weights from around the country. He said that they all agreed on the youth of our nation: 'They know everything already and won't take advice or constructive criticism.'

Guess I won't have SS if I live a few more years...lol.

[AllentownJake]

82. The problem with the youth

Is they emulate their parents attitudes. Glass-Steagall, nope we are more evolved than our grandparents.

The lack of respect for the New Deal makes me laugh, and they all sit around scratching their head things blew-up. None of them bothered to research why those things were done back than, and if they did, they didn't care for SHORT TERM GAIN.

Every generation thinks it is smarter, better looking, and discovered sex in their youth. A great deal of people in my parents generation didn't get over those feelings....ever.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

84. the positive thinking + no sacrifice+ worshipping ignorance & mediocrity

is very true and very deadly

[AllentownJake]

85. Cheating, you can't leave at that most important part of modern American culture

Cheating is so rampant at every level of society.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

86. see, i find that one hard to believe. most americans/new yorkers i know

are very hard workers. cheating doesnt seem very american to me.

[AllentownJake]

87. Have you paid attention the past 10 years

or been to a college campus.

What do you think this financial crisis is the result of.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

88. no, i suppose you are right but i dont see cheating entrenced in all americans

just those at the top

maybe i am being naive.

[AllentownJake]

89. Kids are adopting cheating as a lifestyle

There are entire websites for techniques to cheat on test and steal term papers. It wasn't as bad 13 years ago when I was a student. Today its absolutely wretched.

[polly7]

94. *

[dave29]

96. I read that as "Cloture" problem

may as well add it to the list as well ;)

[Martin Eden]

99. "Short Term Thinking" ... I was thinking the same thing ...

... about the so-called "war on terror"

The more we expand our military involvement in the Middle East, the more we dig ourselves into a costly quagmire that will only intensify a cycle of violence that is so much easier to get into than get out of.

But Chimpy and those who boarded his war wagon couldn't see beyond the flags they waved while they thumped their chests at the "shock and awe" we blasted them turban-heads with.

[depakid]

102. Add- Culture of Lies

Dishonesty is no longer considered much of a vice in the states- and indeed, it's come to be expected and rewarded. It's gotten to the point where- due to the lack of accountability mechanisms in the corporate media- people can and do say most anything- and others take it as their God given right to believe most anything, irrespective of whether it's demonstrably a false statement of fact.

Every single day people on the media will look Americans right in the face and tell them outright (and often astonishing) lies- neither to be called on it- nor ever presented with honest, forthright analysis of why some guest (or the show's host) is objectively full of shit. Moreover, rather than being blackballed for their repeated lies- they're invited back (or given healthy raises) to spread even more egregious ones!

As a result, not only isn't there (and shouldn't there be) even the most modest trust in and among the business and investment communities- or among political "leaders" and representative, but the people of America themselves can't even agree on the basic elements of objective reality. Up is down- black is white- cats are dogs. Obama is a socialist AND a fascist AND Marxist AND a liberal, etc.

As it stands- large swaths of the nation are utterly incapable of engaging in informed public discourse. And that makes them incapable of recognizing common interests or rational and responsible solutions to their problems.

Something of a collective insanity... particularly when viewed from the outside, where such conditions don't exist, at least- not on anywhere near this sort of scale or degree.

[jotsy]

104. Ending cultures leaves us with a self image problem.

These, like all, are critical times, I think what sets now apart is how these times are so easy to be critical of.

I might have presented the culture of cheating a little more prominently, as I see that as a much larger factor than its current spot on the list indicates. At some point in time when ever any line gets crossed there are people who know and do nothing, or worse, envy and emulate instead of calling out improprieties as such.

The education and media sectors have spent generations working hand in hand to render a Pavlovian public that is intellectually incapacitated to such an extent we seek disposable convenience and instant gratification in everything from fast food to leased cars and reversible mortgages. The creation of status as a competition has left the tangible goodness of the American dream faded and fuzzy like ink on paper that got left out in the rain.

Cultures can also be built, of clarity, compassion and the kind of constructive interaction that compliments the citizenry.

[coti]

105. K & R.

I've only been reading your posts for a couple of months but I have to say they are among the most insightful around. Your OP here hit on a number of themes that are having great effect on us but usually go undiscussed, especially those mentioned at the beginning and the end.

Keep up the great work.

[patrice]

106. Lack of responsible, honest, and critical self assessment.

Look at TV; it's our Mirror.