This health care bill is really bad but watch what the Republicans do with it after 2012 elections!

[Better Believe It]

If/when they regain control of Congress they'll make it even worse "fine tuning" it and making other health care "reforms" in order to cut "entitlement" spending.

I'm beginning to think it's likely the Republicans will regain full control of the House and Senate along with the White House in 2012 because the wars, foreclosures, mass joblessness and the general economic decline will persist in 2012. People will be desperate and angry. They will want radical changes.

And right-wing demagogues will seize on that anger and turn it against Democrats running for office, be they centrists, blue dogs or liberals.

Kill the bill now or it will only get worse when the Republicans get their hands on it with support from "moderate" Democrats and a Republican President.

The Republicans would find it hard to tinker with or eliminate Medicare at age 55 or a really strong viable public insurance option that would be quickly put into operation. The public would defend such measures once they see and experience the benefits.

There is little or nothing to defend in this insurance company/big Pharma bill.

[pnwmom]

1. They'll need 60 votes in the Senate to overcome a filibuster.

But suppose they do manage to pass something "bad." Obama can still veto it.

[Better Believe It]

8. What filibusters? They'll only need 51 votes to pass legislation because ....

1. The Democrats in the Senate will give up the so-called filibuster if the Republicans threaten to use the so-called "nuclear option". That's what Democrats did in 2005 when the Republicans threaten to break any filibuster, real or bogus, with that simple procedural move. Remember that? They agreed to not filibuster Bush's Supreme Court nominations except in the most extreme circumstances .... such as a terrorist or KKK member being nominated!

2. The Republicans will almost automatically pick up all or most of the "centrist" Democratic votes in support of their legislation just as they did when George W. Bush held office so they'll easily get 60+ votes without any threat of filibusters. It'll be almost automatic.

3. The Republicans don't even have to engage in a real or even a fake filibuster to stop Democratic liberals dead in their tracks in this current Congress! The mere threat of a filibuster along with help from conservative Democrats and and inaction from a moderate President pretty much kills progressive and meaningful legislation. A few conservative Democrats wrote this health insurance industry protection act and three Republican Senators wrote the weakened stimulus bill.

[HowHasItComeToThis]

2. I TOTALLLY DISAREE WITH YOU

[JuniperLea]

3. Maybe, might, could be, shoulda woulda coulda...

I'll wait until there are actual facts to discuss. Are you so low on whine-fodder that you have to make up hypothetical situations?

[Capn Sunshine]

11. why should today be any different?

I guess everyone missed the articles on why this ain't gonna happen.

[still_one]

4. and why do you think they will win in 2012 again? /nt

[Better Believe It]

9. Because many will tire of the wars and further decline of our living standards.

The economy and wars will be the main issues in the 2010 and 2012 elections.

Do you think the economy will be better in 2012 than it was during the 2008 election?

I've haven't read any credible economist predicting a booming, job producing economy just two years from now.

[still_one]

13. Who is a "credible economist". Most of the so-called credible economists did not predict the

down. Those economists who did predict the melt-down, are actually prediciting a slow steady recovery, and the the worst is behind us. Whitney, Nouriel Roubini, etc.

It doesn't have to be booming. If the unemployment rate goes down to 8 or 9% that is significant enough to change election dynamics

To answer your other question, yes, I think the economy will be better in 2012 than in 2008.

Warren Buffet and even George Soros also believe it will be, and I also believe companies will start to hire

We will see who is right

[theoldman]

5. The odds are very strong that Obama will be re-elected.

I also doubt that the Republicans will have a majority in congress. Looks as if we have a very different outlook on the future. Don't forget to make a post in 2012 so I can respond.

[RedRubberBall]

6. What is the truth about when will the coverage kick-in

I know there are the S & H versions but generally do we know when the benefits or coverage will begin? I've heard or read it could be 3-4 years away. If true , why?

100s are dying without health coverage why wait?

[Champion Jack]

7. I'm beginning to think it's likely this thread is worthless bullshit

[monmouth]

12. So is the OP...n/t

[ixion]

10. Kill it. Kill it now, and let's spare ourselves the heartache

k/r

[Cleita]

14. We might lose the Senate but I doubt if we will lose the

House and the White House.

[Kansas Wyatt]

19. Republican Senate:

'Time to cut that funding for what help this HCR law does provide and time to increase the taxes on the middle class for their cadillac health care plans. Oh, and since we are increasing the taxes on the middle class, we are going to offset that with tax breaks for the rich to get this economy going again. You know Mr. President, like the Great Ronald Reagan would have done. Wink wink, nod nod, alright Mr. President, I knew we could count on you to crack that Democratic House of Representatives in line and get them with the program. Oh, and tell Rahm that our Group is very interested in his expertise, once he feels like moving on. Wink wink, nod nod.'

And KABOOM!!! Just like that, the American People take it up the ass again, just like the SHIT/HCR (NAFTA Insurance Care) Bill.

[Cleita]

20. Sorry, it might be that way. At least it's not all branches of government

again like it was on Bush's first term. On the bright side maybe the Republicans might change the 60 filibuster votes back to 51. It could happen when Democrats start filibustering them, I hope. But somehow I feel Liarman, Nelson, Baucus et al will give them the votes they need. :-(

[Uncle Joe]

15. I agree on all counts, as I stated on a previous thread, the Republicans

will turn lemons in to piss-ade, and this mandated gift to the primary corporate villains behind our national health care crisis will enable the Republicans back to power; as if they ever left.

Thanks for the thread, Better Believe It.

[laughingliberal]

16. Not even sure it's necessary for Republicans to win in 2012 before we see this bill get worse

Bernanke is already talking entitlement reform and I believe this bill contains within it the demon seeds which will lead to privatization of Medicare. I can' t imagine how some people believe it sets the stage for a move towards more public financing of health care.

[RedCloud]

17. The Democrats have yet to respond to a year of hatred but...

the repugs have been caught in many beautiful sound bytes that will bite them come 2010 and 2012, our last year of existence!

[Kansas Wyatt]

18. They will keep the MANDATES in place and allow the Insurance Industry to jack the price even more.

The Republicans are going to 'DRILL BABY DRILL' right up everyones' ass. But wait, it will get even worse...

Remember the Token Effort Chump Change, for help, the New Democrats are allegedly giving the American People?
Say good bye to what this SHIT Bill is suppose to help with, because the Republicans will cut it and give the American People a hell of a lot less than our New Democratic (Republican Lite) Congress is giving now. Not only that, but they are going to INCREASE the tax on those 'cadillac health care plans that the middle class doesn't fucking need.' That way, they can give the Wealthy even more tax cuts, if they let the New Democrats come up with a new way to tax the middle class.

New Democratic Party... Your SHIT/HCR Bill is the very same as NAFTA and your true Republican colors are showing. The only fucking 'CHANGE' you have done, is to inform the American People they are on their fucking own and to quit fucking bitching about it. Go ahead and take the fucking mask off and call yourselves the DemoRATic Party, because that is the only name you are worthy of being called.

[coti]

21. This is true, but unfortunately I don't think Democrats want to believe it. nt