AFL-CIO: "Cadillac tax" on health care (which Obama says is a "good idea") will ERODE COVERAGE

[Bluebear]

A new year brings with it lots of hope.

Let’s hope 2010 brings a health care reform bill that does not penalize working families with a tax on their coverage. Because right now, as New York Times columnist Bob Herbert aptly describes it, there is a ”middle-class tax time bomb ticking in the Senate’s version” of the health care reform legislation.

The bill that passed the Senate with such fanfare on Christmas Eve would impose a confiscatory 40 percent excise tax on so-called Cadillac health plans, which are popularly viewed as over-the-top plans held only by the very wealthy. In fact, it’s a tax that in a few years will hammer millions of middle-class policyholders, forcing them to scale back their access to medical care.
More cost, less coverage for working families. Yet portraying the tax as only affecting ”Cadillac plans,” purposely obscures how it will harm America’s working families...

Or, as Herbert puts it:

The tax on health benefits is being sold to the public dishonestly as something that will affect only the rich….
http://blog.aflcio.org/2010/01/04/tax-on-health-care-will-erode-coverage-for-middle-class/

[laughingliberal]

1. Herbert knows it, I know it, you know it, and Obama knows it

It's a corporate hit job on the middle class and bypasses the need to raise taxes on the wealthy.

[dkf]

2. Its meant to make health insurance companies cut what is covered

and charge higher copays, deductibles, etc.

So everyone can be "equal".

[yodoobo]

6. What is wrong with being equal?

Why should a civil right be conferred on some, more than others?

[dkf]

13. It becomes equal by cutting good coverage.

What do they call it? Downward equalization?

[dflprincess]

17. The unions have been making wage concessions for years to keep decent health insurance

now they're being told they can either pay taxes on that coverage or take something less - and they're wages won't keep up with the either the taxes or the higher out of pockets.

[amborin]

24. when will the Bush tax cuts for wealthy be repealed as promised?

[yodoobo]

40. its great that unions have had coverage for years

truly.

But the goal is to get EVERYONE covered.

Sadly, not everyone belongs to a union. Those who don't deserve healthcare just as much any union member or wealthy person.

Everyone is going to have to make some sacrifices to insure that everyone gets the healthcare we ALL deserve. Did you really think that universal coverage would be free?

Those who benefit the most should be asked to give back the most. That is a sound principal of our party and just because YOU are being asked to pay your fair share, doesn't mean that we throw that principal away.

[Hello_Kitty]

42. Union busting is NOT a principle of our party. eom

[yodoobo]

43. oh come on. No one is busting unions here

[Hello_Kitty]

45. Fomenting resentment of unions is what I'd call union busting.

Accusing unions of gaining an unfair benefit is doing exactly that. They negotiated those benefits in exchange for higher wages.

[yodoobo]

53. Everyone is entitled to the same healthcare

Once the field is leveled, unions will no longer be forced to give up wages for healthcare.

They will have the same (high quality) healthcare as everyone else, and can then focus their negotiation efforts on better wages and other benefits.


The quality of ones healthcare should not be based on the quality of your contract negotiator.

In the long term, this is extremely positive for union benefit/wage negotiations.

[Hello_Kitty]

55. Everyone is NOT getting the same health care under the Senate bill.

15 million are getting Medicaid. Better than nothing but hardly anything comparable to what union members negotiated for.

The rest are getting to buy insurance in the exchange. Most of them will get federal subsidies to buy "coverage" that is left up to the regulation vagaries of whatever state they happen to live in. I happen to live in a state, Arizona, that is run by right wing idiots. Do you honestly think that the morons who have driven my state to the bottom in every single measurable indicator will be able to dispense health care in a manner that even approaches what unions did for their people?

Are you stoned?

[dflprincess]

74. I don't belong to a union

and the insurance my employer offers keeps getting worse every year.

I was pointing out that union members have already been sacrificing to keep decent benefits. They have given up wage increases to keep their access to health care, in some cases union members have taken wage cuts.

Why do you expect them to make more sacrifices than the wealthiest Americans are being asked to make?

I do, however, believe in strong unions. If it weren't for unions we'd all still be working 12 hours a day, 6 days a week with no holidays, vacations or sick days. The more unions give up, the more we'll all lose in the long run.

[Egalitariat]

79. "Bigger piece of a smaller pie" theory. And a lot people here support that.

[rockymountaindem]

3. The evidence is piling up all around

that this bill is not a good idea. I can predict how this will turn out. Years from now, the elites who backed this and the people who either supported it or paid no attention will be standing around saying "how come costs are still going way up and coverage still stinks? I thought we reformed the health care system!" Years from now we're going to be right back where we started, if not in a worse position with even higher costs and a more entrenched private insurance system.

[Better Believe It]

4. K & R Exactly right.

[yodoobo]

5. Obama is right on this

I have no problem with taxing these gold plated plans that are mostly the domain of the wealthy.

Why should some folks get better healthcare than others?

In any event, these folks will still get their plans, but they'll have to contribute their fair share for folks who aren't so fortunate.

The other thing to bear in mind is that Congress can address the threshold at any time. Theydo this frequently with other tax thresholds. If necessary, in a few years it will be an excellent opportunity to attach this to another bill that further improves our current healthcare bill.

[Bluebear]

7. You didn't read a word, eh?

[Better Believe It]

9. Apparently not. The "gold plated" Chevy plan.

[Bluebear]

16. And farther down accusing union workers of "whining about paying taxes"

Geesh.

[Better Believe It]

22. We pay a higher income tax rate than the Wall Street banksters

[Bluebear]

25. Still, Bush's tax cuts for the wealthy have *not* been repealed.

[yodoobo]

28. Its not directed at anyone in particular

But it is whining about paying higher taxes.

I'm standing with Obama on this one. If you want gold plated healthcare that is better than everyone else, then you should pay some extra tax to help those not so fortunate.

[Bluebear]

30. Fine, you stand with Obama. I am standing with the American worker.

[yodoobo]

32. And Obama stands with the America worker

We are ALL on the same team.

But just because we are the same team, doesn't mean that we can't disagree on a few things.

[flyarm]

33. bullfuckingshit!..we have been compromised right out of health "CARE" REFORM!

THIS IS NOTHING BUT A BIG PILE OF SHIT ..on the backs of American workers..

your propaganda is not working with those of us who have worked our entire lives ..working for the betterment of our fellow Americans..this bill is nothing but a big pile of horseshit!

You do not fool those of us who have worked in and for and with unions and the former democratic party ..the democratic party that used to believe in principles and values of the working people!

Save your propaganda for those who don't know better!

[yodoobo]

38. If you don't support the Democratic party

and our President, when why are you here?

There are plenty of boards out there for bashing the party and our president. This isn't one of them.

[flyarm]

44. I support the liberal and progressive arm of the democratic party

I have been an elected Democrat in my state..I have been a registered Democrat since I was 18 years old..39 years ..I support what real democrats have always stood for..and the values and principles I was weaned on..not this bullshit being sold as "new democrats"..that is nothing but a total corporate pile of shit!


I do not support corporatist's!

I do not support those who lie to us with a straight face to get their asses into office then turn like a dog with rabies!

I do not support propagandists.

I do not support those who sell out my nations people.

I do not support those who will fuck sick people..for the profit of a few corporate whores,..and tell us it is good for us!

I have lived in Canada and know what real national health care is...I can not and will not be bullshitted into believing a pile of shit is roses!

I have been a 38 year member of a union working to elect democrats my entire adult lifetime.

My husband was VP of one of the strongest unions in this nation for 11 years and was a founding member of his union.

I will post here my displeasure of being sold out..and I will confront those who post bullshit passing it off as fact, when they know nothing about what they are posting about , that is little more than talking points and they are clueless to real fucking facts!

[pecwae]

60. Uh, I believe that poster

has the right to voice an opinion and has been around for some time. Your question and thinly veiled accusation is way out of line.

[Bluebear]

75. :nodding:

[Kansas Wyatt]

67. bullfuckingshit +1

If you think union insurance is "gold plated," then you do NOT stand with the American Worker.

Same team?
The DLC is NOT on the same team as the American Worker!
The DLC DOES treat the American Worker the same as a Republican would.

[terrell9584]

71. Sure he does

That's why he wants to tell people that they MUST use a part of their salary to buy a PRODUCT from a PRIVATE CORPORATION or else face FINES and possibly JAIL TIME. That's really looking out for the working class.

[truedelphi]

77. And of course, it is also looking out for the Union members

Whose leaders have seen to it that they have decent policies. <sarcasm meant here>

Oh well. Like Greg Palast's book title stated, we have the best government that money can buy.

[Political Heretic]

34. The problem is, its not "gold plated" health care. It's simply decent in a sea of insufficient care

And now with taxation these plans will disappear, leaving us with "equally" crap coverage for all. That's not exactly a win.

[flyarm]

36. it is over the heads of those sent here to post propaganda..they have no clue what

people have sacrificed to have good health care policies.

They just regurgitate the corporate whore's talking points!

They don't give a rats ass about Health "CARE" reform..only corporate profits..or their own profits..if you get my drift!

[BrklynLiberal]

10. Willful ignorance?

[yodoobo]

12. Simple disagreement

This is simply whining about paying taxes.

those who are enjoying the benefits of top tier healthcare have a responsibility to help those who don't

[BamaGirl]

58. Whining, huh?

And top tier. I find this...interesting. I'll have to call and ask, but I suspect my family's coverage is real close to 20k a year. There are 5 of us and while the co-pays suck and the deductibles are higher than I feel we could easily handle on our income, it is good insurance. I'm not afraid to take someone to the ER. I'm not afraid to have someone hospitalized. Course that could be cause I'm married to a cop who got shot in the head almost two years ago. Financially it would hurt, but hospitals don't scare me. I count myself among the lucky.

The thing is, my husband and others in his department, made the trade off of better pay for good insurance. When you add in their spouses pay and this "Cadillac" insurance, a lot of us are going to end up paying taxes we can't afford. We should be punished because of your idea of equity? That's money I won't be spending locally. That will hurt us locally. Also, I promise you, if businesses and governments (in the south especially) think they can get away with it, they'll drop their coverage. And that will hurt everyone.

We're big union supporters. My husband is in one. My dad retired in one but not one of the good auto unions so it's done him little good. My grandfather was a Teamsters organizer. He'd be just horrified at what we've become. Union against non-union. Insured against non-insured. The middle class is not your enemy, yodoobo. And trying to tear down those institutions doesn't help your cause.

[yodoobo]

11. I read it, but I disagree

is that an issue?

[Bluebear]

14. "gold plated plans that are mostly the domain of the wealthy" - not true whatsover.

Union members have taken pay concession over pay concession to keep these "gold-plated" health benefits. You just don't know what you are talking about here.

[yodoobo]

31. Unions will maintain their negotiation power

And have even more because we have a friend of the union of the Whitehouse.

I'm extremely pro-union, but I don't see why they should be entitled to better civil rights than I

[flyarm]

46. bull shit! eom

[chimpymustgo]

62. You need to educate yourself about what is happening, dude.

[jmm]

15. Gold plated plans?

About $8,000 for individuals, $21,000 families is all it takes to qualify for a Cadillac plan. That's hardly the domain of the wealthy. People who live in areas where health care is more expensive, who work for companies with many older employees with more expensive premiums, etc. can still pay deductibles, copays, and need prior authorization yet qualify as having Cadillac plans despite not having Cadillac salaries.


Edited because I forgot a word.

[dflprincess]

18. And as health insurance costs continue to rise

more and more of us will fall into the "gold plated" category as the bill does not index for insurance inflation.

You'd think the stooges in Congress would have learned after they failed to index the Alternative Minimum Tax.

So much for not raising taxes on the middle class.

[BrklynLiberal]

19. AThe House bill which taxes incomes over $500,000 is much more reasonable and "fair" if that is a

concern.

I would like to see the House Bill adopted..as is.

[amborin]

26. this tax on "cadillac" plans will hit less well-paid people each year--"bracket creep"

plus: this tax will also pressure people to opt for lesser coverage...as their previous "cadillac" coverage gets prohibitively expensive.....

another way to "lower health care costs" on the backs of the middle class

[flyarm]

20. it is obvious that you are too young to understand what people have given up for

these insurance plans..its is soooooooo obvious to me.

Understand this..many people have given up alot to have these plans.

My husband and I have both been union members..we went on strike for our insurance plans..the so called Cadillac plans..we gave up salary increases for our Insurance plans..we gave up salaries going on strike..we walked on picket lines..we worked our asses off for those plans. We are too young for medicare..and too old to recoup what we lost fighting for our insurance, through strikes and loss of salary increases that we gave up for our health insurance coverage! Now to see a 40% tax on our health insurance coverage??????

Well get ready darlin for a republican congress and White House..because i for one will stay my ass home and never vote again..if this is instituted. I did not work my ass off for my entire life to now get taxed on my health care insurance..I stood in snow and freezing weather and rain in picket lines for my insurance..I gave up a shit load of pay increases for my insurance!..to now get fucked by dems and get taxed at 40% on my coverage????????

Get fucking real..this will kill the dem party..don't believe me..just wait till the union people in this country..fuck the dems right back! Because we will! Be assured of that!

Maybe the union leadership won't ..be we ..the workers and union members..will damn sure stop this shit! And dems who sign onto this shit will rue the day they signed onto any tax against our insurance policies!

[Bluebear]

21. SOLIDARITY

[flyarm]

27. I just want to know where they get these jokers to come here and post this propaganda and bullshit

thinking they are going to con those of us who have worked our whole lives to now lay back and take this shit?

My husband for 11 years was VP of his union..I worked hard with my union..this shit is not going to float ..i don't give a shit how many ignuts they put on these boards trying to sell this bullshit..IT WILL NOT FLOAT!

My husband and I were just at his unions meetings talking to the youth there..this is not going to float with the young union members because they are being taught by the senior people..this will not wash!

There will be a revolt the dem leadership is not ready for ! I assure you of that!

I just wonder though and I spoke of this with the Union leadership..are the dems deliberatly trying to lose ???????? I am beginning to think they are! They are using the same stupid tactics the Bush junta did..but this time..not many are buying the bullshit!..Even with their little propagandists working over time on the internet!..we have seen this bullshit game enough..when it walks like a duck and talks like a duck..it is a duck!

[amborin]

29. workers fought hard for these benefits, as you said

it's an outrage that workers are yet again getting shafted, only this time under a dem administration

and it will alienate so many....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=433x58124

[Political Heretic]

35. Solidarity

[flyarm]

37. The Democrats' Authoritarian Health "Reform" Bill and the Ascendency of Corporatism in the Democrati

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7399227



The Democrats' Authoritarian Health "Reform" Bill and the Ascendency of Corporatism in the Democratic Party
By Miles Mogulescu
The Huffington Post
December 23, 2009

(This is the first of a series of blogs/articles that will try to put the growing disappointment of many progressives at President Obama's policies into a wider political and theoretical perspective about the divide in the Democratic Party between progressives and corporatists.)

If Barack Obama and today's Congressional Democrats were passing Social Security for the first time, instead of a creating a public program, they would likely be mandating that every American buy an annuity from a private, profit-driven Wall Street firm like Goldman Sachs (who could keep 15%-20% of their payments for overhead, profits and executive salaries) with the IRS serving as Wall Street's collection agency. If they were passing Medicare today, they would be mandating that every American buy a health insurance policy from profit-driven companies like Aetna, Humana and Wellpoint that would start paying benefits with 40% co-pays and $10,000 a year deductibles when they turn 65.

Therefore, when Senate "liberals" argue that their health "reform" bill, while compromised, is like the first iterations of Social Security and Medicare and provides a "starter home" that can be added to later, many progressives respond that its foundation is built on quicksand and that it's not incremental reform but a step in the fundamentally wrong direction.

Democrats and liberals once stood for providing a social safety net through government programs like Social Security, Medicare and unemployment insurance, which were administered by government employees for the benefit of the American people and not by private companies for the benefit of their shareholders and executives who receive multi-million dollar salaries and bonuses. For over 60 years, they stood for the principal that health care should be a right and not a privilege and that Medicare should be extended to all Americans.

Democrats in Congress, under the leadership of Barack Obama, have now turned that principal on its head and made health care neither a right, nor a privilege, but an obligation for individual citizens and a government-mandated profit center for private corporations. For the first time in American history, Democrats are about to pass a bill that uses the coercive power of the federal government to force every American -- simply by virtue of being an American -- to purchase the products of a private company. At heart, the Democrats' solution to 48 million uninsured is to force the them to buy inadequate private insurance -- with potentially high deductibles and co-pays and no price controls -- or be fined by the federal government.
In effect, this represents an historic defeat for the type of liberalism represented by the New Deal and the Great Society and the ascendancy of a new type of corporatist liberalism.

Or as David Brooks wrote in The New York Times earlier this summer, " Democrats learned never to go to war against the combined forces of corporate America. Today, whether it is on the stimulus, on health care, or any other issue, the Obama administration and the Congressional leadership go out of their way to court corporate interests, to win corporate support and to at least divide corporate opposition."

And as they have seen the end result of the Democratic Senate's health care bill, progressives have started to get angry. Stripped of the public option, progressives could now look through the Democratic health care bill to its essence: the permanent entrenchment of the corrupt private health insurance corporation as the nexus of the American health care system; the authoritarian liberal solution of solving the problem of the uninsured by using the coercive power of the federal government to force citizens to buy inadequate private insurance sold by oligopolies with their profits subsidized by taxpayer dollars; and the increased political power of the of the private health care industry into the indefinite future, fueled by government money that can then be used to lobby the government for more private benefits.

Please read the full article at:

http://www.pnhp.org/news/2010/january/the-democrats-aut...

[totodeinhere]

51. Ageism?

There is no reason why a younger person can't understand these issues just as well as you can. I am a college student, yet I read a lot and I'll bet you I know more about these issues than a lot of people twice my age.

[flyarm]

54. have you paid health insurance? mortgages ? taxes? have you seen your health insurance go up 500%

or more.........


Have you seen your health insurance pay for care without getting pre-approval only to see it be denied many years later..same insurance policies..only now you get fucked by the system that used to work? or seen your friends kids denied health care when on life support?..and watched those friends have to lose everything before getting care for their child? Or have to let their child become a ward of the state to get care to simply breath on life support.

Have you seen people have to leave the country to get care for their children or family member because they couldn't get the care here?

Have you ever lived in a country where the nation deemed health care a born right?

Have you worked and sacrificed and given up salary increases to have better health care benefits for your family members?

Have you had friends go to war for this nation to lay in a hospital in their own shit??????

Ageism...??

how about wisdom ...from life's lessons!

somethings you don't learn in a book..you learn them by experience.

[totodeinhere]

I know plenty of older right wing nut jobs.

This community where I live is infested with them. If all of the life experience you list is such a big deal, why are there so many right wing oldsters? Those experiences that you listed don't necessarily lead to much wisdom.

But as far as the issues you bring up go, and am with you on that.

[flyarm]

59. I am sorry to tell you this..but ...

there are what you call "NUT JOBS" in both parties..I have seen and met many in the dem party, while working on national presidential campaigns in many different states..and state Senate and congressional campaigns..it is not exclusive to the Repubs..it can be quite disheartening at times!!

and it is older and younger alike!

What grieves me most is my generation has let down future generations..from both political isles! Most generations have left a better state of affairs for the following generation..we have not done so..we have spoiled our kids with every imaginable toy and convenience,as well as ourselves, we have not instilled good work ethics..and we have not protested the utter failure of those who we elected to represent the people of this nation..we have made celebrities out of those who were elected to "serve the people" and we have allowed a media that is nothing but entertainment, with little to no real pressing news or facts.

I am very sorry for that.

I tried, but I too have failed.

[totodeinhere]

63. I can't argue with anything you said there.

But given that, we the people have to try to figure out what we can do about it, if anything.

[Hannah Bell]

39. "domain of the wealthy" = BULLSHIT. They're union.

[yodoobo]

41. Assuming your premise is true.

Why should a union member (or wealthy person) be entitled to better healthcare than everyone else?

This is a HUMAN right we are talking about.

The fact of the matter is the matter is that EVERYONE should be entitled to the exact same healthcare treatment.

Unfortunately that's not going to happen for awhile, but in the meantime, there is absolutely nothing wrong with asking those with gold plated healthcare to kick in a little extra to insure that the everyone else has at least SOME healthcare.

I'm a quite frustrated that just because those with who have benefited the most, are now trying to derail healthcare for everyone else, all because they are being asked to give a little. That's not Democratic in the slightest.

How can people be really willing to deny healthcare to uninsured children and poor, just so that they can avoid paying a little bit of extra tax? If so, how can they still consider themselves Democrats?

[flyarm]

47. Hellllooooo anybody in there??????? they fucking already kicked in.. by taking less in pay for good

health care benefits..what world are you in????????

comprehension problems??

you haven't worked hard or sacrificed much have you..

got milk??

got talking points?????

[Hello_Kitty]

50. Remember back when we were arguing over the AIG bonus tax?

Several DUers insisted that it was an unfair "Bill of Attainder" and those AIG traders had entered into a contract, by God, and that the contract was sacred!! Apparently contracts entered into by union members are not so ironclad. I guess. :shrug:

[flyarm]

52. I guess it is all part of that incredible chess game eh????? The one where the big boys always win..

and the workers and middle class always get fucked!!

Yes i remember those that argued for the AIG big boys..and they are here working hard and overtime being apologists or propagandidsts for the corporate whores that love to screw the working folks of this nation!

Seems there are fewer and fewer of them now..now that people have caught onto how we are being screwed and told to love it!! or to STFU ..they are more than obvious in their jobs..I mean ...postings..

liars and propagandists make me

:puke:

xxx
:hi: kitty!!

[muriel_volestrangler]

66. Contracts already entered into won't be affected

The tax is paid by the insurer, employer or administator:

20 ‘‘(2) COVERAGE PROVIDER.—For purposes of
21 this subsection, the term ‘coverage provider’ means
22 each of the following:
23 ‘‘(A) HEALTH INSURANCE COVERAGE.—If
24 the applicable employer-sponsored coverage con
25 sists of coverage under a group health plan
1 which provides health insurance coverage, the
2 health insurance issuer.
3 ‘‘(B) HSA AND MSA CONTRIBUTIONS.—If
4 the applicable employer-sponsored coverage con
5 sists of coverage under an arrangement under
6 which the employer makes contributions de
7 scribed in subsection (b) or (d) of section 106,
8 the employer.
9 ‘‘(C) OTHER COVERAGE.—In the case of
10 any other applicable employer-sponsored cov
11 erage, the person that administers the plan ben
12 efits.

Now that will affect future contracts, since they will want to pass on the cost to the employee. But the cost should be born by those others for existing contracts.

[Hello_Kitty]

48. How can people be so willing to fuck the middle class

In order to spare the rich from paying a little bit of extra tax?

That's what this excise tax is all about. The House bill taxes people making over $500K a year. The Senate bill taxes health plans.

[flyarm]

49. the senate bill will be taxing the middle class worker..they will be taxing those who gave up salary

increases for medical benefits.

[Hannah Bell]

56. If the admin wants to give everyone the same health plan, they're welcome to do it via

nationally-financed, public health care.

Not by taxing union plans to funnel the money to insurance corps.

[Bluebear]

57. Amen. nt

[Kansas Wyatt]

68. Union shops LOSE work, because their contractor has to pay for health benefits...

While the non-union contractor gives no health benefits and pockets the difference.

Yet you think it is fair for union members to take it up the ass again by Obama's SHIT Bill, because we already sacrifice for our health care coverage.

Your Obama SHIT/HCR Bill only creates an opening to tax the middle class MORE for the Republicans later, as they CUT & GUT "healthcare to uninsured children and poor" later as well. Oh, and since there is a new tax on those union members, they can give another tax cut to the rich. Yes, the Democrats have set up an alleged HCR scheme for the Republicans to exploit later, and they will make it hurt. Good luck changing it now... But you don't fucking care, because you didn't have to sacrifice for it.

Why did you decide to join this site in 2008?

[suffragette]

70. Speaking of premises

Your first few sentences would ring true if we were discussing single payer since then we would be talking about a basic right of equal healthcare.

But that's not this bill. This bill is insurance reform with different plans for different people.

And asking those who have somewhat decent insurance to be penalized to bring them down to the level of others is the wrong direction.

I hate this terminology of Cadillac and gold-plated, especially since it is being applied to middle class workers who made major concessions just to achieve an adequate level of coverage . It reminds me of Reagan terminology and a similar pitting of the have-nots against the have-not-much-mores.

And the people denying coverage aren't those who have to buy these damn plans, they're the insurance company employees who deny claims. If you want to look to where the Cadillacs and the gold-plating really are, look there and apply some additional taxation there.

[Hannah Bell]

76. this "reform" is a privatized reform, where the quality of insurance/care varies by income. so don't

be chanting "it's not fair for unions to get better plans" to sell this *privatized* for-profit mess.

[BrklynLiberal]

8. Absolutely.

[amborin]

23. KNR

[dysfunctional press]

61. my retired union-member father is certainly not 'wealthy'- but faces a $5,000 tax increase...

because of the benefits that his union fought and sacrificed for.
this will be the dems waterloo if it passes.

[muriel_volestrangler]

65. Is that for single person insurance, or family insurance?

To be charged $5,000 in tax for single person insurance, the premium must be:
$8,500 + ($5,000 / 0.4) = $21,000
For family insurance:
$23,000 + ($5,000 / 0.4) = $35,500

Either figure is very high for insurance. And note that the $8,500 and $23,000 starting points increase at COLA+1%.

Are you sure the $5,000 is right?

[dysfunctional press]

73. that's the number he quoted from a letter he recieved from the union...

he and my mother are covered under the policy.

[Fla_Democrat]

64. beautiful, /swish

The bill that passed the Senate with such fanfare on Christmas Eve would impose a confiscatory 40 percent excise tax on so-called Cadillac health plans, which are popularly viewed as over-the-top plans held only by the very wealthy. In fact, it’s a tax that in a few years will hammer millions of middle-class policyholders, forcing them to scale back their access to medical care.



:spray:

[Jakes Progress]

69. Oh those nasty unionses.

:sarcasm:

[Faryn Balyncd]

72. K & R. . . . . He just thought he could play chess.

[Imajika]

78. This is truly unfair to union workers...

Union workers already effectively pay extra for these "cadillac" healthcare plans by taking smaller salaries.

Sounds to me like we are about to punish union workers with these surcharges because they bargained for, and received, good insurance for their families in exchange for lower wages.

Seems pretty unfair to me.

[Bluebear]

80. It is, thank you