Negativism and cynicism are cop-outs. Things are what they are. I don't mean you should don your

[struggle4progress]

rose-colored glasses and play Pollyanna. And I certainly don't mean you should say, Well, things are such-and-so, and we just can't do anything about that. There is a quite lot to be unhappy about -- but there has always been quite a lot to be unhappy about. Throughout history, some people try and some don't. The ones who try succeed sometimes and fail sometimes, but the ones who don't even try certainly never change anything

Ask yourself, quite simply: if you don't try to change things, who will? if you won't try to change things, why should anyone else even try? if you don't try to change things, what right do you have to complain about how crappy everybody else at changing things?

Sure, it's not easy -- but it has never been easy. Yeah, you'll fail sometimes; perhaps you'll fail often. But every time you fail, you have an opportunity to think about how you might have made some progress if you had only done some things differently, and you have an opportunity to think about what you could have done differently

Politics is something like war: the veterans know instinctively some things, learned from hard experience, that the raw troops don't know yet (or know only intellectually and still haven't assimilated as reflexes); throw raw troops against veterans and the veterans will likely win. And there is this useful slogan: "Experience is what you get by not having it when you needed it." Becoming experienced can be a painful process; but it may be well worth it

[Fumesucker]

1. They are defenses against repeated pain..

Being continually disappointed and rejected is fucking painful, having your hopes dashed time after time after time eventually wears you down.

[mzmolly]

2. I think it has to do with the half empty/half full

phenom? For example, some will press for improvements to health care reform yet look at the good it does in the end. Others will pluck out what they don't like about the bill and focus on that alone.

:shrug:

[Fumesucker]

5. It's a matter of trust..

I notice that a lot of the "half-full" people as you call them say, oh we need to pass something and it will be improved later.

A lot of us half-empty people don't trust that the bill will be improved and I suspect many are like me who thinks it is very likely to be made worse in the future.

[mzmolly]

8. My position is that we should pass the bill because it's a good bill and it

will help people. Followed by, we CAN improve it in the future.

[Fumesucker]

10. Then we shall have to agree to disagree..

Because I think mandated private insurance bites big time.

This country does a miserable job of regulating corporations and I don't expect that to change in the foreseeable future.

[mzmolly]

11. I don't like the idea either. But the subsidies and regulations

are a comfort, to me personally.

I can't blame you for feeling as you do, however.

Peace

[struggle4progress]

4. Changing the world is not a drive-thru window, where one simply places an order,

picks up the result, and happily heads off into the glorious sunset.

These are still the times that try wo/men's souls; power still concedes nothing without a demand. Hope, by its very definition, is dashed time after time

[Fumesucker]

6. I've been fighting this battle for over forty years now and things have gotten worse

In many respects, maybe even in most respects..

I'm tired, tired of fighting, tired of hoping only to have those hopes repeatedly dashed.

Cynicism and negativism are a form of armor against a cold and cruel world.

Like the old Eagles song says, I know you won't let me down because I'm already standing on the ground.

[struggle4progress]

15. In forty years, you can learn a lot about what doesn't work, why it doesn't work, and how your

political enemies fight back. That's experience. It's a basis for finding new strategies

[Tailormyst]

23. S4P

I think I just feel like I am treading water. You talk about new strategies. I would really like to find one. It's part of why I started looking online. I'd like to find some course of action that I can believe in, some hope that we can indeed change things. Obviously what we have been doing didn't work. It got our party into office, but in the end, didn't change much. We got punked by the same lying politicians, in the same way they have been doing it forever. How do we get real liberal progressives into office AND be confident they won't sell out the minute they get there and smell the power and money?

[struggle4progress]

24. What can be done online is real but limited: you can connect with other activists;

or research matters to get your facts straight; or look for useful angles

None of this should be dismissed: for example, it is very useful, when discussing issues with people, to be factually correct and to have information on the tip-of-the-tongue, organized to make a point, and it is similarly useful to know what others are trying to achieve, since some (not all) of them will have good ideas, and a concerted collection of voices is more effective than a disconnected murmur

But activism that's only online will always devolve into preaching to the choir: it's inadequate by itself

Winning political fights is a game of winning the center, town by town, county by county: among those who are sympathetic to you, you need to motivate some to act; from the not-yet-committed and the still-indifferent, some need to become interested and involved; even some of those who think themselves opposed to you originally can be persuaded that they were wrong

This requires an organized local process of engaging the unaffiliated and the confused voice-to-voice and face-to-face, to learn what is going on in their heads, to try to get them to take any concrete action, to identify people who can be contacted again for further concrete action, to discover what discussion techniques work or don't work -- all the old standard techniques of community organizing to obtain specific concrete goals. The nuts and bolts is simple and straightforward: one joins with some other local activists to work on some issues; one finds out who is available at the state or national level to help with ideas and information; one draws up petitions to state or federal officials; one hands out leaflets; one starts a newsletter and a mailing list and a phone tree; one solicits donations which are used immediately for speakers or billboards or mailings or film-shows or other techniques to draw in more of the community; and with every event, there is a specific action suggestion and an way to get involved; people coordinate postcards to congress or telephone calls to state officials; one has regular meetings to decide what's working and what's not working and what should be done next ...

[Tailormyst]

25. Yes- I'm basically looking to network

and to find some direction in which to move. After years of trying to get people elected and marching on the capitol, this last year has been like a punch in the gut. I did find PDA and will be helping their local candidates here.

[struggle4progress]

27. Plenty of folk work through nonprofits between elections, hone their organizational skills,

lobby the state or federal legislature now and then, meet other activists, and so on. The door-knocking, tabling, leafletting, phone-calling, and so on that one does during an election are all techniques that can be applied in other contexts

[Tailormyst]

28. Yup

It's really difficult to trust any candidates anymore. I think maybe what I will do is focus on the PDA candidates and see if maybe we can primary out most of these fake liberals sitting in DC. I wish we had more party choices. The 2 party system is broken and I am certain neither party ever intends on working on the issues they play lip service to their bases about. It's far to lucrative to be able to tell us "omg you HAVE to vote for us or will pass " and they just keep stringing us along while they get more rich and gain more of a stranglehold over everything. At this point I am pretty sure they are grabbing a beer together after work and laughing at all the stupid, easily manipulated peasants.

[Fumesucker]

7. I've been fighting this battle for over forty years now and things have gotten worse

In many respects, maybe even in most respects..

I'm tired, tired of fighting, tired of hoping only to have those hopes repeatedly dashed.

Cynicism and negativism are a form of armor against a cold and cruel world.

Like the old Eagles song says, I know you won't let me down because I'm already standing on the ground.

[sui generis]

3. cynicism and negativism are NOT the same thing

cynics are typically realists, also not to be confused with pragmatists.

Negativism gets ALL the glory. Leave the other isms out of it.

[LooseWilly]

9. Cynicism and Negativism are A) not the same & B) perspectives.

A perspective is not a cop out. It's a point of view. To imply that cynics and "negativists" never do anything is disingenuous.

And now I'll leave you with a thought. The argument for voting for "the lesser evil" is, from my perspective, not only an acceptance of, but actually an embracing of your 'anti-statement': "Well, things are such-and-so, and we just can't do anything about that." ...

Whereas, voting for a third party in the event that neither of the Big 2 presents a worthwhile candidate is an illustration of your statement: "The ones who try succeed sometimes and fail sometimes, but the ones who don't even try certainly never change anything".

That said... I think your war simile is ripe for an interpretation that casts the left-activists (like Hamsher) as the veterans, and those who argue for "pragmatic politics" (like Rahm Emanuel) as the PTSD suffering veterans who should be relegated to desk jobs and kept out of the field.

Unless, of course, the "change" that you are here championing is the radical idea of keeping everything exactly the way it was in 1993... a change from change itself? ... Talk about cynicism and negativism- "the lesser of two evils" is the worst form of cynicism and/or negativism in existence. It is not change, but status quo... argued in favor of in contrast with fear of a supposed alternative.

[Fumesucker]

12. "the lesser of two evils" is the worst form of cynicism and/or negativism in existence.

Well said, thank you, you have helped me clarify my own thinking on this matter.

[LooseWilly]

13. Thank you... I sometimes wonder if the impending carpal tunnel is worth it.

If I shared some spark that helps you light the bonfires in your brain... then it was worth the keystrokes. :)

[struggle4progress]

14. Informed voting isn't terribly difficult and doesn't take much time: regularly read a few

newsletters on topics of interest to you, or regularly check a few websites briefly, over the course of two years, then go vote for the candidate who seems more likely to listen to organized groups pushing your issues. It's generally not hard to find some difference between the candidates

A more sophisticated view might seek to develop better candidates by moving them into the political process and thyen gradually into higher office

But the simple act of voting is not the end of your civic responsibilities. How could it be, with so little time required to vote? All you can do with a vote is choose the more sympathetic or less sympathetic candidate: why, then, would you do anything other try to propel into office the candidate you considered better, even if you considered the candidate only marginally better? No other strategy makes any sense. Of course, one should expect that the elected official often will still be rather uninformed and so will need to be educated and/or pressured. That process involves art and skill: one constructs various forms of public pressure; for example, one figures out what groups can be mobilized to push the official in specific ways on particular issues. That fact will seem painfully disheartening, only if one expects some unrealistic miracle from the simple act of voting

Hamsher and Emmanuel are irrelevant at the level of grassroots politics. As a citizen trying to make a difference, why would I give a rat's ass about either of them? I won't ever deal with Hamsher, because she doesn't represent any citizen activist group that I'm involved with; I won't ever deal with Emmanuel, because he control access to the President and negotiates between the President and folk on the Hill. And if I want to try to shortcut Emmanuel on a specific issue, I will work with other people who are directly and consistently pressuring their own Representatives and Senators on that issue. The practical concerns is always to motivate some people locally (in my neighborhood or county or state) to raise their voices in a concerted fashion for a specific objective: sometimes the targets will be local papers, other times local officials or state regulatory agencies or the governor's office or local businesses or the local congressman. It's not necessary to get everybody to agree with me: what matters is a critical nucleus of organized voices

[omega minimo]

16. why do things have to go to total crap before people start paying attention and MAYBE

even respond?

[struggle4progress]

17. If you find a good answer, let me know. Meanwhile, there is the entirely practical problem

of seeing the world as it is, without becoming paralyzed by angst, and of trying to craft strategies to solve the very real problems we have

[omega minimo]

21. Good luck with that

The "very real problems" were preventable. People don't see the world as it is til it's too late. People paralyzed by apathyi LIHOP. They could use some fucking "angst." :toast:

[struggle4progress]

26. Old cowboy I knew used to joke about the fella who sat on his horse backwards so he could see where

he had been

If only we had ... if only they had ... If. If. If. Nothing wrong with learning from what didn't work, but nothing can be learned from what didn't happen: the efforts never made, the cavalry that never arrived ...

Negative emotions can serve some purpose, if used sparingly in a disciplined fashion -- but nobody wants to hang out and just wallow morosely in the muck: people want to win and they want to dance; sometimes, you dance cause you just won, and other times you dance because, well, you still expect to win some day

[omega minimo]

30. Monday morning quarterbacking and prognosticating about the future are two different things

Most people wanna dance to the fiddler's music while Rome burns and then wonder "What happened?"

If more people paid attention and took responsibility and HEEDED THE WARNINGS ahead of time, things wouldn't be this "mucky."

Many here on DU had parents close enough to the Great Depression -- and lived through the 60's-70's -- to know that alarm bells were going off during the Reagan/Bush eras, when deregulation, media consolidation, blatant propaganda, censorship, violation of civil rights, illegal wars, illegal arms/drugs deals, illegal interventions in foreign nations, etc. etc. etc. -- at the dismantling of the social safety net -- were all ramped up; continued by Clinton/Gore with NAFTA, GATT and Telecomm 1996............... stolen election, stolen election, hyperactivity of all the previously mentioned acts that laid the groundwork.

And they LIHOP. Benign neglect. The last generations that had a decent public education, with history and civics, to be able to recognize this as it occurred and be OUTRAGED; and find a way to continue their activism (despite burnout and other demands) and/or maintain their duty as American citizens.

I understand your point -- however, this time the lazy hypocrites really let The Powers That Be destroy our system and way of life to an insanely dangerous, probably irreversible degree.

Being hornswaggled by Reaganism was the death of this nation and "you dance because, well, you still expect to win some day."

So good luck with that. :toast:

[Greyhound]

18. I think that my case is common enough to be useful.

You see, I'm white, well educated and well spoken, I can speak on a wide range of topics, and since I was literally raised in the heart of the republik party, I can speak their language. So I, and I'm sure many others like me, after seeing the deliberate failure to act upon and sabotage of this opportunity, have to ask ourselves "Why should I bother to put myself out there as a target for the likes of these"?

I have stood up time and again for years and years against the obscenity that our country has become and it has cost me dearly. Personally, financially, and socially, I have paid a heavy price for doing what I know is right, and when we finally get what we were told that we needed to fix this mess, we're left twisting in the wind. So why bother?

There is virtually no chance that the current circumstances will ever happen again in my lifetime, an opportunity to make the serious changes that this nation needs has been, not just wasted, but not even attempted. We gave these parasites (and that's what they are) a mandate and the power to carry it out and they haven't even tried. For three years we have watched as these craven opportunists have done nothing but line their own pockets and pretend incompetence. It is insulting and I'm through with them.

[struggle4progress]

19. "Don't waste any time mourning. Organize!" -- Joe Hill, letter to Bill Haywood

http://www.aflcio.org/aboutus/history/history/hill.cfm

[Tailormyst]

20. Well- we tried to do something about it

We got them the majority- Then we got them to 60 with a Dem president. Then they all laughed as they shit all over the poor foolish massees who actually believed their crap.

So yeah- I am bitter and negative and angry as hell. Not one more dime, not one more vote for ANY politician who is not a strong, strong progressive. The rest can take their BS and pretty speeches and shove it.

You talk about doing something about it? Well I, like many others, are wondering what more it's going to take.

[omega minimo]

22. Good point. And it came at the expense of not impeaching the criminals previously

occupying the WH.

[freddie mertz]

29. I'm not cynical or negative as a general rule, BUT given what we have seen in the last year.

I AM cynical and negative about anything good coming from the current administration and the Dem party in general, especially and most significantly regarding the current HCR legislation.

Over the course of this process, we have been lied to and let down by the president and by virtually every public, elected voice in the party.

(Except maybe Joe Lieberman and Ben Nelson, who have embraced the darkness)

We have been told that the promises we heard in the campaign and since were never even made, even though the video survives to prove it was.

When it gets this bad, it makes sense to be more than a little disappointed and yes, PISSED OFF.

They have betrayed their promises and gone on to lie about it.

This cannot be denied.

And the cynicism and negativism that will grow from that bad seed is something THEY have to be held accounatble for.

I didn't do it. You didn't do it. They did it.