So, what are WE going to do for those who can't afford health care?

[Ladyhawk]

I've been chronically ill with treatment-resistant major depression for about twenty years with lows punctuated by even lower lows. Recently, the bottom fell out for me when California State budget cuts laid off my psychiatrist and my psychologist, as well as a good friend who is also a psychologist.

Under Medi-Cal rules, I cannot seek help out-of-county and the situation after all the lay-offs is very grim.

People keep telling me: "I hope things get better for you" or "I'm praying for you."

Hope and pray in one hand. Shit in the other. See which one fills up first.

This message board is fucking meaningless and I'm just as guilty as the rest of you. We come here to bitch about our problems and do absolutely nothing to solve them. Currently, I'm seriously ill. Maybe I deserve a bit of a pass; maybe not. The only thing I've done to help the situation was send some money to DFA recently. Laughable.

So, here's a challenge (to myself as well): What are WE going to do to help those suffering because they can't afford health care? (Or in my case, don't have access to health care because all the good doctors got laid off.)

Tell me.

Show me.

I have no ideas.

[Jamastiene]

1. I wish I knew the answers

:hug:

[Goldstein1984]

2. The only ideas that I have seem to be unpalatable to most

I don't believe "the system" is going to let us solve the problem because "the system" IS the problem.

Not to repeat the same old rhetoric, but as long and medical care is a for-profit, fee-for-service system, economics will always outweigh health as the objective.

We cannot rely on elected representatives for meaningful reform in the current system because reform is no more in their financial interest than it is in the financial interest of the health care and health insurance industries. Short version: Don't expect solutions from Washington, D.C.

What do we do?--Easy to say, difficult to make it happen.

1) We find a way to organize. The biggest hurdles to this are both those who believe the political process is too corrupted to provide a solution and those who believe the political process can provide a solution.

2) Organized, we send a clear message to elected officials: a) This system is not working for the people; b) you are your puppet masters are outnumbered by the people; and c) help us fix the system or we will destroy the system and you along with it.

3) We wait (a very short time) for significant reform. If it doesn't happen, we use every non-violent method to disrupt both the political and health care systems as they currently exist.

How? Targeted boycotts for example. A lot of medications are optional, at least for short periods. What if we could get 30% of people taking statin drugs to stop taking them for two months? That translates into a 5% loss of revenue for manufacturers of that medication. (A lot of people would likely find that without statin drugs they lose a lot of the muscle aches and pains caused by the drug, and they might stop taking it altogether.)

[cali]

7. are you a physician? An RN?

I think your recommendation that people stop taking statins is wholly irresponsible.

[Goldstein1984]

20. Actually, I'm a statin user that has done a great deal of research

into the effectiveness of that class of drugs, experienced the negative side effects, and challenged my own physician to tell me my conclusions were incorrect. He told me they were not, and he followed my recommendation to take me off of the medication.

I'm a scientist, engineer, and industrial hygienist. My conversations with medical and pharmaceutical professionals are frequent and two-way, and I do as much educating of them as they do of me, especially in my area of expertise--arthropod-vectored disease.

Statins work by lowering cholesterol levels, and many physicians don't believe that cholesterol is the real problem, but rather, inflammation. Of course, the dose of statins required to treat inflammation is 1/10th that required to lower cholesterol. 1/10th the dose equals 1/10th the profit. Further, a dose of statins sufficient to treat inflammation doesn't put near the stress on the liver that a cholesterol-lowering dose does, so physicians and labs will make less money due to less frequent check-ups and liver function tests.

On to other drugs...

One need not be a conspiracy theorist, merely awake, to be aware that many pharmaceuticals today are used to treat manufactured diseases--they are optional, often unnecessary, and better for the pharmaceutical industry bottom line than the patient.

You're entitled to your opinion. But I don't really think your primary concern is health, but thinking and acting outside the Democratic Party box. No need to rebut that, because I believe we will only end up agreeing to disagree.

[Ladyhawk]

14. I've been thinking of going off my drugs, but unfortunately,

I need a physician's assistance to do so. Talk about a catch-22. :(

I can get my medications, but a trip to see a doctor swamped by the lay-off fallout seems useless. I don't feel he's much of a help to me.

[Goldstein1984]

21. I'm not advocating going off of drugs casually

I mentioned statins because a few months off statins doesn't make a big deal. I also believe, based on both personal experience and research, that statins are going to be proven to cause serious problems in the long-term, and are likely not treating the real cause of atherosclerosis as currently prescribed. I am an alpinist--which I do by hiking the many ridges in the Chugach Mountains all around where I live in Eagle River, Alaska. I injured both shoulders in a fall, and had surgery on one. My shoulder never properly healed from the surgery, in spite of the procedure being very routine, and the pain became progressively worse over the course of several years. Finally, I concluded that the pains and other symptoms I was feeling were consistent with the side effects of statins, and three months after stopping the medications I was able to sleep at night without prescription painkillers. Once off the painkillers, I was able to stop taking the medication for the acid reflux caused by them. With the pain gone, I was able to be active again, took off 20 pounds, and was able to get off of my high blood pressure medication.

So, stopping statins reduced the damage to my musculoskeletal system, which allowed me to drop the painkillers and start exercising more. Stopping painkillers allowed me to stop the antacid, and being able to exercise again allowed me to drop 20 pounds and stop using blood pressure medications.

My doctor tried to substitute a prescription forms of niacin (B3) and a medication to lower triglycerides. I chose to buy a much cheaper over-the-counter niacin supplement, and decided against the triglyceride medication because I researched the med and concluded that it interrupted metabolic pathways that seemed a little important to me.

My doctor much prefers me taking the prescription medications (he makes more money off of visits and labs when I follow his instructions), but my cholesterol is lower on the B3 than it was on Pravachol, Lipitor or Crestor, and not taking statins allowed me to methodically drop three other medications.

I have no doubt that many people benefit from good medications. But I also have no doubt that the tail is wagging the dog in too many cases. One day, while I was concluding a visit with my doctor, a young and very beautiful woman walked in, gave my doctor a big wink, hug, kiss on the cheek, and a 20-ounce mocha latte--she was a representative for Pfizer.

[Ladyhawk]

22. I'm pretty sure the meds aren't helping me.

I'm on a boatload of pychiatric drugs and I'm more suicidal than I've been in my entire life. I don't think I could get much worse...maybe in the short run while I'm going off the meds.

Either way, there's a high risk factor for suicide. I might as well die with less crap in my system.

[Goldstein1984]

23. How about you don't die at all so we can continue reading your

posts?

I have good friends and close relatives who are being treated with psychiatric medications, ranging from simple anti-depressants to medications for manic depression, paranoia and schizophrenia. Some of them have always struggled with the correct combinations and dosages of medications, others of them seem to have settled into a completely "normal" existence (I don't believe there is such a thing as normal, and what a boring place the world would be if everyone were "normal").

It would be irresponsible of me to give you medical advice, except to tell you that you should do plenty of research and speak to experts that you trust before making any major changes to your medications.

I think the healthy approach to any medication is skepticism. I have the advantage of a very solid technical background in biology, biotechnology, chemistry and engineering. It was amusing that a few of the metabolic pathways that my medications affected also existed in microbes I once studied for bioremediation of contaminated soil. Anyhow, I had a good background for studying the medications I was taking, but Psychiatric drugs are more difficult to understand. I still ran all of my decisions past my doctor, even when I already knew what I was going to do, to at least hear what he had to say.

Talk to a doctor; go in with a take-charge-of-my-own-life approach; tell the doctor that all you need them to do is help you help yourself; and that you want to take the minimum number of medications to create the minimum number of complications in the process. If you feel like you are taking too many, that they are making no difference, or that they might be making you feel worse, tell the doctor that too.

I'm probably not telling you anything you don't know. Sorry about that. I've just seen too many happy endings among those I know to want to see anyone throw in the towel.

This is way out of my fields of expertise, but please don't think twice about contacting me directly if you just want toss around some thoughts and get some friendly feedback.

G1984

[Ladyhawk]

33. Not dying would be a lovely option, but it requires health care. nt

[CTyankee]

38. Are there any nonprofit organizations in your area that help people with mental illness get

the health care they need? Perhaps a suicide hotline would be a good resource. And don't rule out your elected officials allthe way up to U.S. reps and Senate offices in your state.

I am so sorry this has happened to you. Please take my suggestions and follow up as "out there" as they may sound. No one should have to suffer this way...

Take care, please...

[Ladyhawk]

43. I've used the suicide hotline as a safety valve.

Right now, I'm too pissed off at everyone and everything to do much that is productive.

[Goldstein1984]

39. I agree with every work in CTyankee's post

Find something. Call someone. Depending on your location, there may be country resources.

This whole situation makes me very angry. Mental illness isn't given the same attention as other forms of illness.

I'm not a professional in this area, so anything I write is just going to sound trite, but you should not give up.

Please find a friend or relative and tell them you need some support about now.

[Cleita]

31. I like your ideas because I feel the only way we will get meaningful

universal health care is to drive the for profit health care corporations out of business by boycotts and any other way we can think of.

[Goldstein1984]

3. Activism shouldn't be a bad word

I don't remember whether it was Bill Moyers or Thom Hartman who said it, but activism has become a bad word. Those of us on the "Left" who make any sounds about demonstrating or boycotting or civil disobedience are immediately condemned as "teabaggers."

There was a time when the Democratic Party and activism were almost synonymous. It wasn't the Congress that produced the Civil Rights Act or the Voting Rights Act, they were merely instruments of the people who took to the streets across the nation, many of whom were beaten by police or bitten by police dogs, and some who whom were murdered for their conviction. LBJ and Congress were told what to do by the people. They couldn't sit back and depend on party loyalty or being the lesser of two evils to guarantee them votes. And yes, waiting in the background behind the peaceful activists, were real underground groups that promised violent action if non-violence failed to motivate TPTB.

When I was sixteen years old, I sneaked out of the house and helped the people my father called "wetbacks" make sure that thousands and thousands of acres of tomatoes and lettuce rotted in the fields of Central California. Cesar Chavez was not that impressive a guy close-up, but he united thousands of farm workers--The United Farm Workers--and they made the economic cost of refusing to deal with them so high that TPTB had no choice but to listen.

When activism is once again an acceptable word, and people have enough self-interest or concern for others to demand and force change, then we will have the government we deserve and everyone will have the health care they deserve.

If we aren't willing to do that, then I would argue that we do, indeed, have exactly the kind of government we collectively deserve because it's the government that we collectively tolerate.

Until people who believe in democracy regain the courage to unite and confront power, we can all do that quaint little campaign and voting thing for sentimental reasons.

Just my opinion.

[bigwillq]

4. Very good post.

:thumbsup:

[cali]

5. CHC's will provide mental health care on a sliding scale fee

that's what my neighborhood CHC does and it provides very good services.

[twhite1]

6. More worrisome is what THEY might do

Mandated Community Service in exchange for HC?

[cali]

8. uh, wrong.

[napoleon_in_rags]

9. The anarchists have been working toward setting up a free clinic in my town

http://nwcommonaction.org/?q=node/34

I'm not a fan of the anarchists in general, but I think things like this are worth looking at. The answer that's been coming up for me is more of this local stuff. I have come to the conclusion that the partisian divide in this country may be intractible, so looking for hope to come from the federal level is a waste of time...Whatever gets built will be messed up by the next line of Republicans who get in federal control. The answer for sustainable solutions comes more from embracing the (traditionally conservative) idea of more state and local power, so blue and red areas can get policies in place that last for the people there. The role of federal Dems would be to help facilitate and empower these local movements.

I actually think this approach is good for Republicans too. The mortgage meltdown is a result of previously regulated industries becoming deregulated, trying a bunch of immoral things and collapsing for it. The conservative response to this is to let them fail, let new businesses rise up. And if this would be allowed to happen, they'd have a shot at having their free market model actually work. But having the government come in and bail them out undermines the whole concept.

[notesdev]

10. Ship them to Greenwich, CT?

[mmonk]

11. Change voting habits and promote progressives to run

and those that are new and running. Do not let a Blue Dog or DLC'er win. Resist any excuse to vote for them. Never vote Republican. Help push those that lobby for change such as physicians groups supporting single payer.

[Jkid]

12. That's the problem, nothing.

What we currently have instead is the national implementation of the Massachusetts health care reform plan. It has failed in that State and it will fail nationally.

[cali]

13. ,bullshit. The CHCs will provide primary care including dental

and mental health services for millions of people who have no care at all now. And there's no reason that they can't, as Vermont's 8 CHCs do, provide good care. Furthermore, I am someone with good health insurance that I pay $60 a month for. It's subsidized and administered by the state. CHCs are not by any means single payer but they do provide comprehensive primary care.

There's a lot wrong with this legislation including the whole private insurance crap and as far as I can see, a lack of enforcement, but the billions for CHCs is not part of the problem.

[Ladyhawk]

15. So, how would I access a CHC?

I don't think such a beast exists anywhere near here. Plus, I really don't have much of a "sliding scale" to work with. $60 is 11% of my income after major bills.

[cali]

24. you would call and make an appointment. If you can't pay anything

you can still access comprehensive services. This is my local CHC. Been in operation for 30 years; it provides first rate care.

http://www.the-health-center.org/

[Ladyhawk]

29. CHC = Community Health Center, right? I can't find a local one.

The place I was getting my mental health care was probably classified as a community health center. Schwarzenegger's budget cuts laid off almost everyone associated with the place. The only people left are two incompetent psychiatrists and two incompetent psychologists. My psychologist friend has been looking for work all over the nation (and even in Iraq) and can't find a job. Meanwhile, people like me go without care.

I did a search and the closest one is at least an hour away, which would enhance medical costs considerably. Also, traveling makes me exhausted. Most likely, the next nearest community health center suffers from the same lay-offs my local behavioral health center did.

That said, some psychiatric care would be better than none, which is where I'm at now. Of course "psychiatric care" entails care from someone who is not an incompetent buffoon. The layoffs in this county saved the buffoons and laid off those who were actually competent.

Here are my search results. Is this what you meant? Turlock is the closest, but it's over an hour away.

http://findahealthcenter.hrsa.gov/Search_HCC_byAddr.aspx

[AlienGirl]

36. Turlock: the part of the torlado that holds the fan in...

This is three-day-driving, sleep-dep humor, but Turlock sounds like it's part of a unique air-based plumbing system called a torlado.

Tucker

[AlienGirl]

16. We are going to have to get used to dying again. Today I found out how little the clinic can do

They can refer me to a psychiatrist (but I've got to come up with the money). They can refer me to an oncologist (who can see me if I have the money). They can even refer me to an oral surgeon (who can treat me if I can come up with the money). I have access to the first gateway of the healthcare system--but beyond that, the day I get really sick, the cancer comes back, an infection goes septic, I am out of luck.

Only death comes for free.

Tucker

[Ladyhawk]

18. Man, lots of people are in trouble. I really don't know what to do. :( nt

[cali]

25. OK, enough. My CHC provides good mental health services

If you can't afford to pay anything, you don't. They provide dental services. And the billions for the new CHCs, according to Bernie will fund these comprehensive primary care services.

[AlienGirl]

26. That would be nice, but mine doesn't; and I need more than "primary" care.

The oral surgery that would fix almost everything that's currently wrong with me is not "primary"; it is "specialty". Oncology is not "primary" either.

Tucker

[Ladyhawk]

42. Jesus, I'm sorry you're in the same boat I'm in...

Say "I'm sorry" in one hand...blah blah blah

We share more than a love of parrots, it seems. That other thing, poor health, kind of sucks.

I would be more than willing to contribute to a DU Trust Fund for those who are seriously ill. It's just that I doubt Skinner, et al. would go for it. It would actually require DUers to do more than bitch and moan. It would mean verifying actual need. It would mean an accountant to handle funds. It would mean doing something. That's probably too much to ask of us Americans.

It would mean activism for people who aren't Andy Stephenson or Helen Thomas, god forbid! (I donated to help Andy and miss him; I respect Helen Thomas, but that much money for flowers seemed ridiculous, so I didn't contribute. It was my choice. So in advance of the flames, STFU!)

So, maybe I'm asking too much of you Americans...and of myself, for that matter. It's much easier to let people die than to actually do anything about it. It's safer to just play video games or watch a movie. I know that's what I do to tune out the depression and soul-crushing despair. Historically, when I've tried to help myself, I've made a bigger mess, so I've stopped trying. Maybe you have stopped trying for the same reasons.

One of my biggest reasons is my opinion of the human race (oh yes, me included!) has hit rock bottom. Maybe deep down I don't think any of us deserves health care. The lack of any real help certainly seems to underscore that we are evil, self-absorbed creatures.

Forgive my ramblings if you can. I honestly won't be staying at DU for much longer. I just dropped by to watch the tires burn, to vent a little and to poke a bit around the edges of the thinking box.

I mean, god forbid we actually do anything useful. That would be most un-humanlike.

[tango-tee]

27. Dear AlienGirl

Reading your post breaks my heart. This is my first time posting on DU - or anywhere else for that matter - so please forgive any errors.

I live in Germany, a country with excellent health care services, and have recently been diagnosed with rheumatoid arthritis. I pay EUR 10.00 to my primary care physician for the first office visit during a particular quarter, but then have an unlimited number of visits, plus referrals to specialists are free. Looking at the health care situation in the U.S. from over here, it is difficult to imagine how a wealthy country such as the U.S. could leave its citizens in such dire straits.

With all my heart, I do wish there was something I could do to ease your burden. I do realize it's not much, but I am sending a big hug to you from "across the water".

Peace
Anke

[Ladyhawk]

34. Again, you mean well.

But...

pray, hope, empathize, wish, say "I'm sorry" and send invisible hugs
in one hand

shit in the other

See which fills up first

(My expanded "shit list")

[L0oniX]

17. Sorry ...can't help ...I'm busy feeding the homeless.

[Ladyhawk]

19. Yeah, there are a lot of serious issues. I wish it weren't so...

but wishing is a lot like hoping and praying.

[DailyGrind51]

28. Subsidize them!

[Cleita]

30. Ladyhawk, we are disgusted with our system and empathize with the people like you who

are affected by it. Most of us have worked very hard to change it, but no one in power will do it and they are refusing to listen to us. Seventy percent of us want universal health care, yet it seems the thirty percent minority is running the show. Please blame those at fault, the mega insurance and health care corporations and the elected officials they have bought, not those of us who really have been working to get universal health care for everyone.

I guess we are going to have to do something as drastic as having a die in on the Mall in Washington, DC before they get it. In the meantime I believe local communities might be able to get a band aid program going like they have in San Francisco that is picking up people falling through the cracks like you and getting them the health care they need. I can't see any other way right now.

[Ladyhawk]

32. Blame isn't the issue. I'm suggesting that communities should take up the slack.

Empathize in one hand; shit in the other. See which one fills up first. (Let's see, I've added "hope", "pray", "wish" and now "empathize" to my "shit list". :) )

If I die from lack of health care, does it really matter whose fault it is? Or will it comfort you to have someone to blame when perhaps you could have done something besides rely on corrupt politicians? The Republicans will blame me. The Democrats will blame the system and meanwhile, thousands will die.

I'm asking what WE THE PEOPLE can do.

Perhaps doctors need to swallow their pride and not make as much money as they're used to making.

Perhaps local people need to organize and create a health care system that doesn't rely on the government.

I don't know how this can happen. Certainly, I'm in no position to make it happen.

If WE THE PEOPLE can't do this, maybe we all deserve to die from lack of health care. Most likely, it's already too late for thousands.

[Cleita]

35. Your post frustrates me because I personally have done everything I can

possibly do as an activist to change this and I really can't do more. I'm a seventy year old woman living on social security and a few dollars I make working part time. I feel like I have been banging my head against a wall the whole time since I started trying to get people to look at universal health care and extending an improved Medicare to all and that's been since 1972. So I have been at this a long time and my frustration is palpable. I have had friends who died because they didn't get the health care they needed in time to help them live. I wish everyone would rise up and make our politicians listen one way or the other, but they don't, leaving us who do swinging in the wind and ineffective.

Making accusatory lists about those of us who actually care isn't helpful.

[Ladyhawk]

40. On assigning blame: You might as well put me at the top of the list.

I'm sorry I frustrated you. I believe you have done all you could do under the circumstances. I, on the other hand, probably haven't. Of course, I've been sick for twenty years. Maybe that's no excuse.

In the end, it doesn't matter. Things are what they are. All your hard work on our behalf seems to have been wasted effort, which must be doubly tragic for you.

I'm not looking to prick consciences so much as to elicit ideas. When someone tells me I'm to blame for something, I usually feel as you do. And I'm sure you have good reason to feel the way you do.

At the same time, those of us who have sat impotently on our asses can't undo the past. I can't go back in time and become a tireless advocate of fixing health care. Nor can anyone else who wishes, hopes or prays they could. At the risk of sounding like a Fox News idiot: I'm not interested in playing the blame game. I'm just saying that wishing and hoping aren't going to fix the health care system. Nor will working within the system.

You tried to work within the system, but it's become apparent the system is completely corrupt. This wasn't always obvious, so it made sense to work within the system. Now it seems bypassing the system entirely is the only thing that might help.

I'm asking what WE THE PEOPLE can do.

That is all.

[Lance_Boyle]

37. Drug resistant major depression often responds well to ECT.

This should be well worth a shot in your case if untried. Budget cuts in CA can't have shitcanned ALL the psychiatrists. Find one, discuss ECT.

[Ladyhawk]

41. I've had ECT. It did help for awhile.

I'd rather not go that route again if I can help it. I think all it did was make me forget everything, including situational reasons for being depressed. Once the situational stuff kicked in again, my brain chemistry went to hell again. So, the results were fleeting.

I was hopeful again for awhile, but when all my post-ECT friendships did the same thing my pre-ECT friendships did, I lost hope again. Apparently, I have a set way of protecting myself that isn't amenable to change. Fuck me.

Amnesia is a bizarre experience. I remember arriving home and noticing all the neat computers.

My mother told me, "You built those."

I said, "I did? I must be smart."

I didn't remember how to work the TV remote. I couldn't remember how to log on to IRC, which is something I'd done every day for at least a couple of years.

I found my own web site and read everything on it to learn a little bit about myself. My website said I had a Pentium 2 processor, but after a little coaxing, I remembered I was running an overclocked Celeron 300A processor. It took me a long time to find the old motherboard and PII, "hidden" in a storage box.

Weird. Just weird.

I also had some horrendous anxiety attacks during the treatments.

Suckitude. :(

[Ladyhawk]

44. This is my other, less fun thread. nt

[quaker bill]

45. Provide subsidies

and if that fails, exemptions from the mandate and community health centers where care for the very poor is free.