“Obama Has Kept the Machine Set on Kill”

[Goldstein1984]

Journalist and Activist Allan Nairn Reviews Obama’s First Year in Office

In an extended interview, award-winning journalist and activist Allan Nairn looks back over the Obama administration’s foreign policy and national security decisions over the last twelve months. “I think Obama should be remembered as a great man because of the blow he struck against white racism,” Nairn says. “But once he became president…Obama became a murderer and a terrorist, because the US has a machine that spans the globe, that has the capacity to kill, and Obama has kept it set on kill. He could have flipped the switch and turned it off…but he chose not to do so.” He continues, “In fact, as far as one can tell, Obama seems to have killed more civilians during his first year than Bush did in his first year, and maybe even than Bush killed in his final year.

MP3 and transcript at: http://www.democracynow.org/2010/1/6/obama_has_kept_the_machine_set

***************

Agree or disagree, an excellent interview.

[coti]

1. This is a bit extreme. nt

[Radical Activist]

2. Bush's first year?

9/11 was near the end of Bush's first year. Why would Bush have killed hardly any civilians? Flawed arguments like that destroyed the writer's credibility right off the bat.

[FrenchieCat]

3. I call bullshit Hyperbole!

[EFerrari]

43. And you do that without watching the video or reading the transcript

because Alan says very clearly that this is an INSTITUTIONAL problem.

[Goldstein1984]

4. I posted this at 9:12 PM

And by 9:14 and 9:15 I had two replies saying the person being interviewed had extreme views based on a couple of quotations in the opening paragraph.

Please listen to the interview so that you have a basis for your judgment. Or don't, at the risk of your judgment being considered hasty and ill-informed.

[tblue]

5. I heard most of it this morning.

Made me very sad. Thanks for posting because I didn't catch the man's name. I like how he said we need to consider the number of deaths of all people, not just Americans, as consequences of our policies.. Im afraid we suffer from an astounding lack of imagination.

[Goldstein1984]

8. Made me sad, too.

Some of the knee-jerk and uninformed responses to this post also make me sad. I expected more from people.

I think I'm going to set DU aside for a few weeks while I decide if it's even worth my time.

[madokie]

17. Give saRah a hug

for those of us who can't or won't go there.

[Goldstein1984]

27. I don't even know what that means

[TheWatcher]

59. Those are from blind cheerleading "yes" bots who don't even bother to read or listen

They seemed to have a pre-programed knee-jerk response ready to Copy/Paste the minute they see ANYTHING disparaging in the SLIGHTEST to the Quarterback of The Football Team.

They don't even think for themselves anymore. They simply react.

We've seen this happen before in history.

It never ends well.

[bobbolink]

46. Or.... maybe an astounding lack of compassion for "the other".

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

10. Well gee, yes, when you start off by calling Obama a murderer and a terrorist...

...people are gonna take issue.

[Goldstein1984]

42. "...you start off ..."

I didn't start off by calling Obama anything. I labeled the post with the title of the article on Democracy Now!

The intent was to stimulate a discussion about the content of the interview.

DUers are just proving that they are as emotional and uncompromising as the Teabaggers they so love to condemn.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

6. "Obama is a muslin terrist"

[leftstreet]

7. High 'ouch' factor

But you're right that it's an excellent interview

Thanks for posting

[debbierlus]

29. Kick

[Goldstein1984]

9. Okay, I see what the problem is with this post

It's competing with another post with an Ann Coulter penis joke. Much less complicated than listening to an interview.

In the future, I'll start off any controversial post with a fart joke to win favor.

[Kitty Herder]

12. LOL That's how it often works around here. nt

[leftstreet]

13. *SEX* *NAKED PHOTOS* *MICHAEL JACKSON* *OLIVE GARDEN*

That's how I do mine

:-)

[zbdent]

16. where's the article about having sex with michael jackson's naked photos in an olive garden?

link please!

:evilgrin:

[madokie]

18. You wanna see nekkid photos

of me, wow :-)

[laughingliberal]

28. Way too much truth to that! lol nt

[TheWatcher]

60. Title the Post "Sexay Beach Pics" or "New First Puppy Photos" and the server will melt down with

eager beavers ready to drool and hyperventilate.

Can't guarantee they will stay after they see what's really there, but maybe that's what must be done. :)

[Hekate]

11. I disagree with his premise, which is set out in this paragraph & no doubt expanded upon...

... in the interview. Are you with me so far?

I disagree with the manner in which he has chosen to express that premise -- and since he is a person who uses words to make his living, I have to assume he did not misspeak and that he chose his words carefully.

Okay?

In fact, I find this statement so inflammatory and so inaccurate as to the capacities of the presidential office, that I can't make myself read further:

“But once he became president…Obama became a murderer and a terrorist, because the US has a machine that spans the globe, that has the capacity to kill, and Obama has kept it set on kill. He could have flipped the switch and turned it off…but he chose not to do so.”

So having given this post a certain amount of personal thoughtful consideration and an internal analysis of why it triggers an emotional response (anger) instead of an intellectual response -- NOW can I call bullshit?

This asshole could have had my agreement about the globe-spanning machine, but he lost me at "He (Obama) could have flipped the switch and turned it off," because you know it reality he could not and he cannot. The jerk could have had my agreement to engage in a discussion of WHY that cannot happen (like, I think Obama would be as dead as Jack Kennedy the next day), but you know, asshole statements like the one quoted above accusing Obama of being "a murderer and a terrorist" don't promote discussion, they end it.

Thank you.

Hekate

[Goldstein1984]

14. You and I have a different approach to an article like this

First,I think it's a false dichotomy to have either an emotional or an intellectual response. One can have both, and be both angry and intellectually curious about what makes one angry.

Second, I doubt I could go back to any of my posts and find labels like "asshole" or "jerk." If you get beyond your emotional reaction and listen to or read the interview, you would find an excellent discussion of how the behavior of the U.S. conflict with international law and can only be defended with the doctrine of U.S. exceptionalism.

Third, I was listening to a podcast interview of people who are on the receiving end of our Predator drone attacks, and they use exactly the labels "murderer" and "terrorist" to describe our President. It is intuitively obvious to me that killing noncombatants is murder, and we would immediately label such actions terrorism if they were being directed at us.

Thanks. As of this writing, yours was the only reply worthy a response.

Forgive the unsolicited advice, but if you can conquer your emotions so that you can expand your ability to take in and process information, it will open up a whole new world.

[madokie]

19. Thank you

less than a year and people are turning on a good man who will be remembered as one of our greatest Presidents ever. I don't get it other than the thought that some here are just flat ass not dems.
Okie slang there :-)

[greenbird]

53. Well said.

[mmonk]

15. He could have left off the first year comparison. Obama came into

office with two wars in progress. Bush came into office without those two wars (except the Iraq bombing campaign/ no fly zone).

[EFerrari]

44. I initially thought the same thing. But it is true that the president

has been in office for a year now.

[dionysus]

20. calling him a terrorist and a murderer blows any credibility this guy has...

[tblue]

21. You should hear the entire interview.

It's a plea for restraint and fairness. I thought it was really compelling.

If you put a megaphone on any one sentence someone says, you can be offended by it. Likewise, if you put a microscope on any one action, such as drone attacks that kill civilians, you can have a strong reaction, as this man did. Maybe his choice of words was harsh, but he backed them up with facts that don't change just because we don't acknowlege them.

[Goldstein1984]

22. I think you're wasting your time

I find the post above, in which a person who claims that it's wrong to condemn a president after only one year is office is proclaiming that he will be remembered as one of the greatest presidents (after only one year in office).

One year is office; an unearned Noble Peace Prize (which the President continues to unearn); no significant accomplishments; a health care bill that goes beyond compromised to compromised...and already ranked among presidents like Abraham Lincoln, Teddy Roosevelt and FDR.

And another post that essentially says being in touch with reality and talking about it calls one's credentials as a democrat into question.

Ignorance is strength
War is peace

[Name removed]

23. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Goldstein1984]

24. What bothers me...

is that I'm only trying to bring opposing views and stimulate discussions. Yes, the title of the interview was provocative, but if people would take the trouble to listen to the interview they would hear a well-presented list of factual events and a very credible interpretation of those events and their consequences.

Instead, the most detailed response I received was nothing but a defense of jumping to conclusions and condemning the person being interviewed based on the title and introductory paragraph.

I have this ideal version of what a Liberal person should be, and it's causing me significant cognitive dissonance of late. I think a Liberal should be a person who takes the trouble to seek education, is as well-informed as possible, lives a life of self-examination, rejects no ideas without giving them consideration, suppresses no line of thought, questions all authority and offers blind obedience to no person, and treats all humans with the same respect they would demand for themselves.

[Agony]

25. THAT bears repeating,,,

"I think a Liberal should be a person who takes the trouble to seek education, is as well-informed as possible, lives a life of self-examination, rejects no ideas without giving them consideration, suppresses no line of thought, questions all authority and offers blind obedience to no person, and treats all humans with the same respect they would demand for themselves."

[laughingliberal]

31. Well done! nt

[Goldstein1984]

33. I'm still trying to understand DU

So many seem to be no different from Conservatives who cover their ears and shout "liberal freak" and "liberalism is mental illness" and that kind of nonsense. Some DUers are just the from-the-Left version of them, and barely from the Left.

I was going to step away from DU for a few weeks and re-evaluate. I don't think that will change anything. I'm going to hang around and just lower my expectations.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

34. Says the guy calling Obama a terrist.

[Goldstein1984]

40. I just posted a link to a Democracy Now! interview with a guy

who says that Obama's policies were a continuation of the murder and terrorism of Bush/Cheney.

Anyone taking the time to listen to or read the interview would have been able to participate in what I intended the post to stimulate: a discussion of the person's argument.

At this point, I'm not going to waste any more time trying to get that discussion going.

[dionysus]

45. bull crap. you're pimping the notion obama is a terrorist and you know damn well you're doing so.

[EFerrari]

48. You didn't watch the video or read the transcript either, did you?

I changed the headline and posted this yesterday.

Instead of defending Obama, you should go find out what your tax dollars are paying for. Obama doesn't need you to defend him. He needs your support in changing a foreign policy that is decades old and that has made us a target for terrorists.

[Goldstein1984]

54. Read my words,

Don't pretend you can read my mind.

"...pimping..." ? Not even worthy of a rebuttal.

[laughingliberal]

36. I think, perhaps, Bill Maher had it right when he said America has two parties

one center right party and one crazy (right wing) party. I would venture to say we've gone beyond center right in the Democratic party.

You certainly did bring out all the President' wo/men with this post. I appreciate your presence here and have learned much from your writing.

[dionysus]

49. you must not be that smart if you're surprised people take offense to you pimping the notion obama

is a terrorist and a murderer. despite your attempt to play coy, you know that's exactly what you're doing.

[EFerrari]

50. Alan says very clearly that this is a systemic, institutional problem,

not an Obama problem.

[TheWatcher]

61. It kind of reminds one of the way the foolish followers of the LAST dictatorship used to act when

presented with opposing points of view.

The Irony is STUNNING.

[Goldstein1984]

66. When you don't like the message

invalidate and condemn the messenger.

If it was wrong when Bush did it, then it's wrong when Obama does it.

But let's not get labored down with reality, we have a party to support and elections to win.

[laughingliberal]

69. +1

[Name removed]

26. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[dionysus]

47. i never claimed obama would be the greatest president ever.

your agenda is clear, sorry if i don't buy into your lame-ass shit.

[ShortnFiery]

64. Think about this: When China achieves WORLD Military Superiority in say, 30 - 50 years ...

given our present track record for KILLING "suspected" terrorists anywhere in the world, could CHINA TAKE CHARGE and use their "Killing Cyborg Machines" over to the USA to kill us?

Could some element within the USA be considered "terroristic" by China when it achieves ABSOLUTE military dominance over the rest of the world?

Yes, put yourself in the place of a TRIBAL person presently residing in the ME, and then, consider that the USA could be China's "Arena of Death and Destruction" in future WARS for hegemony?

My point: We need to nip this "Drone Execution" Operations NOW! If we don't our government (or others) can turn these "killing machines" on US in the future.

[debbierlus]

30. I don't know. Expanding the war in Afghanistan

Is a terrorist act...

Innocent people being killed for what?

[dionysus]

51. maybe to a small handful of people. i don't agree with it but i don't classify it as a war crime

[ShortnFiery]

56. No, nothing we do in Afghanistan is "a war crime" since WE make the laws.

:evilgrin:

[DevonRex]

32. Agreed. Some fools will go to any extreme...

[ShortnFiery]

55. By continuing to conduct Summary Executions via Drone all over the Middle East ...

what else would you call The Leader of an Hegemonic Country who EXECUTES "suspects" at will?

This is going to blow many Obama fans' minds, but THE REST OF THE WORLD is catching onto the Militaristic and Warmongering Crusade that President Obama is continuing from the last Administration.

The HEGEMONIC torch has been passed and President Obama is off and running in the continuing saga called American Crusade 2001+

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

35. "Stop the killing" is now considered a "hate Obama" statement on DU.

At least by the born-again-hawks who now applaud killing since "our guy" is in charge of it.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

37. "Obama is a terrorist" is no considered "Obama hate." Always was.

And frankly, I don't think you people really care as much about the people of Afghanistan as you do about hating Obama.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

38. Take it up with the guys who are killing them. i.e. the CIA and Pentagon.

Just because you are willing to give Obama a pass on his policies that do kill people because he's "our guy" doesn't mean the rest of the world is obliged to do so.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

39. The rest of the world already does so.

The rest of the world and the Nobel committee.

The rest of the world recognizes that sometimes violence is necessary.

Stop pretending that you're the rest of the world. You ain't nothing.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

41. That's odd. Most of the world's population goes through their lives without killing.

Or, ordering other people to do so. In fact, most of the world punishes people for killing.

But, of course, "leaders" who indulge in it are exempt from accountability for their crimes because..well...they're.. "leaders".

[Name removed]

58. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Goldstein1984]

52. I don't hate Obama. I do care about the people of Pakistan

I voted for him. For the first time in my life, I took the time to watch a president be inaugurated. I told everyone that I thought we could now get back on the correct track. And I have been disappointed.

My three-year-old granddaughter is part Inupiat "Eskimo" (Inuit). She has beautiful brown skin, almond-shaped eyes, dark hair, and a way of looking at me that has made her present and future my only concern. Place her in a country where we have some "vital national interest" we deem worthy of pursuing with violence, and someone who looks like her could easily be considered "other."

When I see, or even think of, the broken and dead bodies of children like her, or of children like her becoming homeless orphans because they have the misfortune of living too close to one of our targets, it makes me physically ill. Reading or listening to apologists for murder and terror like this makes me physically ill.

It is called compassion, empathy, or just morality. Either you have it or you don't.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

65. Yes, you do. And I doubt the latter.

[Goldstein1984]

67. You are the hater.

I don't even know how to reply to your simple-minded and opinionated platitudes.

I'll let you get back to your television so you can keep track of the baby body count.

[laughingliberal]

70. compassion, empathy, morality. in short supply these days. nt

[earth mom]

57. People need to face up to what Obama is really about and stop living in denial.

Hell, Obama had the nerve to make a War as Peace speech when he accepted the Peace Prize! Wake up people!!!


To the OP: Thanks for posting this...I will listen to it asap.

And as for your comment about understanding DU...DU took a sharp right turn during the primaries and there are a lot of DINOS around here now that cloak themselves in rah rah b.s.

This b.s. has scared a lot of good liberal DUers away, but they are coming back, though still not posting enough. x(

[ShortnFiery]

62. I'm not naive enough to believe that our Past Presidents didn't bomb the hell out of

other nations. There's one glaring example that comes to mind: Nixon's forays into Cambodia under the code name "Operation Menu.."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Menu

However, in the past when our leaders STRAYED from the International Rules of LAW, they at least did their utmost to SHIELD the American People from such vile acts by keeping them covert and later DENY their existence to the ends of the earth.

BUT NOW, we the God Almighty USA swaggers around with our KILLER DRONES wantonly executing al Quaeda *suspects* and increasing numbers of "civilians" caught-up in the carnage. :puke: Daily and OFTEN ... all over the Middle East Arena? :wow: Now please enlighten me how such utter disregard for the LIVES of the People of THESE nations is going to keep Americans MORE SAFE, at home or abroad?

And don't give me this line about "the leaders of these nations WANT our drones there." NO! The leaders of these nations are Tin Pot DICTATORS or JUNTAS who are merely using our killing machines to rid themselves of their Political Enemies who they conveniently all name "al Quaeda."

[Goldstein1984]

63. Thank you. My intention was just to stimulate a discussion.

I definitely have an opinion on the matter, which should be clear from my posts under this OP, but I value honest debate and wish there were more of it.

The party certainly has moved far to the Right since I first registered as a Democrat in 1974. I had been an activist, or tagging along with activists, since I was 12, and the Democratic Party was the only choice. I left the party and registered Nonpartisan when Clinton turned out to be a Neocon, and adopted the Progressive label, or just Liberal. It's my opinion that Progressives are what Democrats once were and should still be. We didn't leave the party, the party left us.

[bridgit]

68. Agree or disagree? I do agree that Amy gets her broadcast/media formats Podcast creds straight-up...

out front before anything. I disagree that Amy has not had ample time to file a byline from Iraq ala Ashleigh Banfield, Lara Logan and others, preferring, and who wouldn't, to be hassled at the Canadian border on her way to university lectures.

I agree that Allan Nairn's hyperactive "machine (still) set on death" "Obama a bigger killer and murderer than Bush" "The important thing is saving the lives of everyone" "Humans into bug splat" and all the rest of the word processed-Progressive-format-focused script without any nod to a sense of collective future to include papers only meant for the eyes of Obama *and* the peoples in these repressive regimes such as Somalia (Obama arming warlords starving people setting the world on it's ear indeed - wha'did this guy just fall off a turnip truck er'what?) - or of what that future may entail or *whom else* may likely be trying to violently thwart by way of murderous behaviors the lives of not just Americans but Europeans and elsewhere - or anyone else that stands in their way; is like watching a guy flip back & forth through the hoops of a little one ring, family owned circus that only sells tickets to itself

I agree that these types of hyperbolic expressions have made it much, much easier for DoD, MIC, defense stocks, war profiteers, etc, etc, to step around and now contribute to this great "WHAT THE FUCK HAPPENED!?" moment in Lib/Pro time expressed as a knee jerk action here at DU

I agree that the short of it is that these kinds of expressions are often formed at a distance from the topic as though it is an intellectual pursuit - as though an ongoing debate never really intended to conclude, of a bug in a bell jar that can be released onto one's finger to let walk around and put back in the bell

I agree that to frame in, by, and such insatiable ways: that America is the only source of murderous evil on the planet that won't stop being mean is simply not true. Though I disagree that it rises to a lie; in that such expressions formed from intellectual distances to a subject, or in media/salon settings - remains less than true at best

Sadly, I agree that in spite of our infatuation with Colbert's "truthiness", for others to pro-actively propagate half truths based on personal preferences has a net effect of negating the future for all if not many