Conclusion: As an American, you have to be perfect and untouched by error. Or you’re a bum.

[HughBeaumont]

. . because life is LUCK. If you’re not lucky, you’re a bum. So go ahead, drop out of school. Get each other pregnant and play Space Invaders. - Eddie Murphy.

To start off, your parents must be perfect and without defect. No bad or defective genes must be handed down. No unseen health issues can arise. No intellectual deficiencies or broken DNA. You got a cancerous gene? Autism? Mental Retardation? MS? Oh well. “Not MY problem”, says CIGNA. “Too bad, so sad” says WellPoint. “Sucks to be you” says Anthem Blue Cross. Get ready to have a nice, debt-ridden impoverished life. What do you think; insurance conglomerates are in the business for their health”? They’re certainly not in it for yours. Move to France, hippie!

While we’re on the subject of wombs, a bit of good advice: try to fall out of the right one; as in part of a set of privileged, healthy and generous parents with fat wallets and a safe neighborhood with great schools. Oh, you can be born into poverty, but getting out of it will be the equivalent of digging a hole six feet deep with a butter knife. But that’s noble too; after all, that’s what “rugged individualism” is all about, isn’t it?

You must be willing to be on a constant treadmill of learning and challenges from the moment you step out of that crib. Nothing can be done for fun because that sort of thing isn’t allowed in the real world, and the Russians, Asians and Europeans are already miles ahead of you. So you’d better stop soiling yer Pampers and get a MOVE on, son! And put those damned Legos and art crap away. There are tests to be taken, good grades to get and PowerPoint Presentation projects to engage in. You don’t want to be . . . left behind, do you? Things like “Fun”, “Imagination” and “Creativity” are for those low-paid liberal right-brainer loooooooo-sers. The world doesn’t have room for THEM anymore.

When you make that commitment to be the “Perfect Citizen”, you now have to make a career choice. The earlier you do this, the better off you’ll be. Once you do that, you will have to be the BEST in what you do; competitiveness is a MUST. Oh, and none of this “liberal arts” claptrap either. Your choice better be quantifiable; it’s either that or “the van down by the river” for you, Sonny Jim. Darn it, how do you ever expect to be economically viable? Never mind that you may not be inclined for or even interested in math, science or finance. You’ll LEARN to like it. What do you think, colleges are institutions of learning? Jesus, that’s something the smelly Commies tell you. Colleges are the gateway to the job and salary of your dreams . . . the American Dream!

Starting around about . . . junior high . . . every, and The Rock means EVERY decision you make has to be the right one. Your career choice better be correct. Don’t get arrested. Don’t make waves. Keep your damned trap shut. Do exactly as you’re told. Kiss your ‘betters’ asses with vigor. Don’t gamble. No substance abuse. Keep up with all the latest fashion trends. Stay away from psychotic significant others. Go to college, go to graduate school (because a bachelors simply ain’t enough anymore), get a great job and keep it. Never get fired, because you need this job. Exercise a lot, because being perfect means looking perfect. If you’re slightly unattractive, do whatever you can to correct that. Live in great neighborhoods. Network with the right people. Hone your prognostication abilities.

If you don’t like your lot in life, you’ll have to work, study, network, schmooze and think perpetually HARDER to make it better! No one ever sat on their deathbed wishing they’d have slept, ate or spent time with their families and loved ones.

Starting around about . . . 20 . . . you’re going to have to start puttin’ yer money in a mutual fund, just like those wonderful investment books that draw out error-free plans for you to be a multi-millionaire by the time you’re 65 tell you to. HAH? You’re not 20 anymore? COME on! Haven’t you been LISTENING?

I would say start saving money with regularity and not touch it beginning around 7-10 years of age. Oh, you’re not that young anymore? Siiiigh. O.K. start saviiiiiiiing . . . . NOW. What do you mean you have an unexpected triple-digit plumbing problem? Geeeez, what did you do NOW? Didn’t you think or prepare??

There’s no such thing as bad luck. There’s no such thing as bad circumstances, only opportunities you missed. There’s no such thing as a bad lot in life, only lack of foresight or motivation.

So, does all of this sound patently ridiculous?

Think about it. Why is it that more often than not, one bad situation, one job loss, one illness, one unfortunate circumstance of birth, one bad spouse/significant other, one bad gene . . . one bad choice . . . has the capability to put you in a financial sewer for months, years, even decades?

Why does even one life monkey-wrench have to be so damned COSTLY?

America is punishing kids for getting an education with crippling debt and a worse-than-useless job market. For all of this talk about how America values children’s future and education, we sure do an awful job of showing it.

We’re punishing workers who lose jobs through no fault of their own with a “safety net” that isn’t worth two pieces of monkey crap. We’re the supposed “most powerful nation on Earth”, yet we’ve had zero net job growth in ten years?

We’re punishing people who weren’t cut out or smart enough for college with low wages and zero job prospects, save moving to Mexico or Malaysia.

We’re punishing families who have the unfortunate circumstance of a loved one or relative with an illness with a 6-digit debt anvil strapped to their backs.

I’ve long said that it’s a crime and a disgrace that an American citizen’s future and well-being are almost completely tethered to how gainfully they’re employed. Does one bad event have to bankrupt them? These people are losing their livelihoods, their homes, their families and their futures through no fault of their own.

What needs to be done to STOP this? What needs to be done to tell those in power “we’re not perfect, we never will be, and that’s something you’ll simply have to DEAL with?” Life has bumps and potholes. Should that mean “The End”?

[Hello_Kitty]

1. Spot on. I would just add one more expectation to your exhaustive list.

You, ordinary person, need to become an EXPERT in law, medicine, real estate, and a host of other arenas. If you are lied to by, say, a mortgage broker about how that ARM loan is the way to go because home values will never go down!! and you end up wiped out and losing your home it's YOUR FAULT because you didn't DO YOUR HOMEWORK and become more of an expert on mortgages and real estate than the people who are GIVEN LICENSES AND PUT IN POSITIONS OF RESPONSIBILITY AND AUTHORITY!!

Seriously, if I hear one more person say "should have done their homework" my head is going to explode clean off my shoulders. :grr:

[HughBeaumont]

4. Oh yes. All humans must be experts at EVERY quantifiable subject.

It works the same in the financial world. That's the broker's "out": absolvement of responsibility via confusion and legalese.

Also, ever notice how resumes must be loaded with at least 3-10 years experience on at least two quantifiable fields? How is anyone supposed to live UP to that? Who has the TIME? Who has the resources for these supposed multiple trips to college.

[Hello_Kitty]

6. Moral hazard is for little people!

And tell me about it on the resumes. I'm unemployed right now and fairly certain I'm unemployable at this point. I'm 41, with some outdated technical skills and an Bachelor's in business. I've tried to get jobs in retail but they won't even look at me because I'm too old and overeducated. I could easily do office work and I'm a quick learner but they want the cute young things. So I'm volunteering on a political campaign in the hopes that the candidate will be able to pay me a bit at some point.

[dotymed]

142. I'm with you Kitty

I have an old B.S. in "Liberal Arts", pretty damned useless except to say "you're overqualied." I was a carpenter in my previous life...age and poor health ended that. I volunteered for Obama and I don't think I could handle that disappointment again... I raised a lot of hell in my youth (in another state), but with computers, I will always be considered trouble. Right after 2000 (when the voter rolls were scrubbed and the SCOTUS appointed King George). CHOICEPOINT "discovered" on a routine background check (for a company I had worked at off and on for years) that I was a convicted felon. Not true. But, my Union carpenter career was on hold for months until CHOICEPOINT finally admitted their mistake. I believe that false "felon" status may still be on my "permanent record." Since I was forced to leave carpentry (health), I have been turned down for most other jobs. Almost exclusively government jobs, because they have insurance...

[LibDemAlways]

10. In school today kids are considered failures if they don't get an "A"

in every subject - and the classes all have to be "honors" or AP requiring the kids to do nothing but homework - except for the time they are supposed to find for all of the extra-curricular activities that will look good on their college apps. You know, things like "Red Cross Club" and "Advanced Peer Counseling."

Describes my kids' high school in a nutshell. Not one fun activity all year - unless you can count the one measly dance which is a joke because since these kids have no opportunity or time to socialize - they act like a bunch of 5th graders - boys on one side of the room, girls on the other. It's pitiful.

[HughBeaumont]

11. The part about "PowerPoint Presentations" isn't a joke. That's from experience.

My kid's intermediate and Jr High school years were hellish - no study halls, so he had hours upon HOURS of homework per night. Much of it was either useless busywork or some multimedia presentation that reeked of something you'd expect from an MBA or proposal manager. Not that level of intellect, obviously, but the assignments themselves. It's almost as if he were auditioning to gain a major sales account or impress a boss.

Yeah, his "dances" were the same way. All fast songs, all he did was hang out with his buds.

[LibDemAlways]

12. When my daughter signed up for Honors Global Science two years ago

she had to present a power point presentation every two weeks. She had absolutely no time to get it done on top of everything else, so who ended up becoming the power point queen? You guessed it. I'd scout the pictures for her and together we'd write the script. It was the only way - if she was going to get any sleep at night.

School today is beyond nuts. I graduated from hs 40 years ago when educators actually recognized the need for kids to have a balanced life. I have a lot of very talented, successful classmates who never took an AP class. I don't think what we're putting kids through today is particularly wise or necessary. Just creates a bunch of stressed out kids who don't know how to interact with others.

[treestar]

37. A relative who is a teacher told us years ago about trying to explain to

a parent that a C grade was "average" and meant that the student had learned what he was supposed to learn. The parent thought that it meant some sort of failure or lack.

Getting straight Cs would mean you were on track. Yet that very definition is not good enough!

[guyton]

114. below average

A few years ago it occurred to me that *half* of all people have below average intelligence and I about drove off the road. Scary!

[AlbertCat]

60. In school today kids are considered failures if they don't get an "A"

If this were true, there'd be competition for better grades. But what I see is TEACHERS are failures unless all their students pass. Every student must be above average (an impossibility) and if one knows more or does better than another, they are snobby know-it-alls. Sports are more important than arithmetic...and art is for sissies.

[LibDemAlways]

65. It does, indeed, work both ways. Kids are under intense pressure to get

straight A's in order to get accepted into a prestigious college. My daughter has a friend who received a "B" last year in AP Biology. The girl is now convinced she'll never get into a top school.

Teachers are pressured by parents and by students to inflate grades accordingly. It's a vicious cycle and benefits nobody.

[Grinchie]

113. The way that Education dismisses Art is a sin.

It is the way that they take the humanity out of social developments, and the kids become souless creatures that rely on flashy movement, sharp sounds, shiny things. You know, just like the mother Hen teaches her chicks to feed, by scratching the ground with her feet, and flinging earth, bugs or what have you into motion, which triggers the chicks to investigate and potentially feed.

It goes the same way with our kids today. Without art, they are nothing more than chicks mimicking the behavior of others, and end up lacking the soul, individuality, independant thought, and developing the unique trait that humans have, which is abstract thinking.

Much of scientific discovery was developed in dreams by people that were very artistic, and were able to visualize things after observing the basic natural laws present in nature.

Now, we have kids that are separated from nature in crowded classrooms, Climate controlled or not, who are allowed out into a fenced, sometimes totally paved prison yard for a few hours, and are generally left to fend for themselves.

Our generation of young adults has so much anger that it is truly frightening.

[NoQuarter]

100. From the young people I've encountered,

I can say that the many times the stuff classified as "honors" or "AP" in High School these days is material I was doing in Jr. High.

Many of these kids have never been told "No" in their lives, and would think nothing about marching in to a teacher and DEMANDING that they change the grade to an "A" for no other reason than it's what they want...not earned....want.

These latest generations of kids have attained heretofore unrealized levels of self-absorption, and self-importance.

[LibDemAlways]

103. The honors and AP stuff at my daughter's school is tougher than anything

I had in college back in the 70's. I know because I tutor her nightly.

Granted many kids are self-absorbed and spoiled by indulgent parents, but as for the schoolwork - at least in my experience - it's tough and way beyond what was expected of me back in the day.

[AlbertCat]

59. Oh yes. All humans must be experts at EVERY quantifiable subject.

Except of course deductive reasoning and logic. As an American, you should be very skeptical of the consensus of thousands of international scientists as well as American ones, unless they work for Exxon or The Discovery Institute in which case they know it all. The rantings of religious leaders have no need to be examined as well.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

7. Not only that--you're supposed to be a medical expert so that you can

be a "wise consumer of health care" as you try to eke out benefits from your high-deductible health plan.

[Hello_Kitty]

9. Oh of course

Not to mention the fact that Americans' poor health is solely caused by their lazy gluttonous sinful lifestyles.

[Grinchie]

118. They get plenty of Help from the Food Industry

I don't know if you were being sarcastic, but in my research as an Organic Farmer, I have run into some interesting information that almost nobody has heard of, nor does the USDA Acknowledge due to concerns about the legality, and due to the pressure of the Ag Producers.

The fact is that the USDA, many years ago, in the 1930's to be precise, discovered that the farmlands of america were becoming depleted at an alarming rate. Tests were performed that showed that produce and grains from differant ares varied wildly in the amount of nutritional content, simply because the soils were panned out of the necessary plant nutrients.

At that time, the great depression was going strong, and farmers were getting hammered by the pop of the comoddity bubbles. The USDA potetially wanted to identify the areas where the soil had been depleted, or perhaps even rate produce according to nutrition content, but they met with much resistance, and decline from stretching their necks out. From that point forward, there was the "Substantial Equivalence" rule, that a Tomato is a Tomato, despite the fact that one may be nutritious, and the other, a red bag of water.

In the 90's, thanks to Clinton and Michael Taylor of Monsanto, the USDA reuerrected the "Substantial Equivalence" doctrine and used it to allow the introduction of Genetically Modified Organisms, such as BT Corn, Canola, Soy, and Cotton into our food supply (Cottonseed Oil). Just remember that the USDA is not concerned with the Nutrition content of our food. If they were, they would be sued by the Agriculture sector that was producing the inferior product.

So, the end point that I am trying to make is this.

People of today might as well be eating good tasting plastic or consuming a diet of Wax Lips. They eat and Eat and Eat, but it's mostly sugar, salt, Starches and synthetic fats that fool the taste buds into thinking it's food. However, when it gets to the digestive system, where the real work begins, things go terribly wrong. Taste and pleasure of eating is only the selection mechanism, it is when our enzymes start to snip apart the complex proteins, sugars, starches, and trace minerals that the real work begins.

Somewhere along the way, Taste became more important than nutrition, and we are seeing the consequences in hordes of Morbidly Obese people, who are nothing more than fattened livestock. They have been deprived of the essential nutrition and fats required to rebuild the body and power the brain, that they are nothing more that a weak presentation of a human being and it's incredible potential.

Adding to this issue is the fact that the flavorings are predominantly toxic, alien compounds that are never allowed to be excreted fully, we have loads of people carrying around loads of toxins in their bodies, totally unaware that they are creating a recipies for disease and parasites.

When people finally realize what has become of our food supply, they will become outraged. I know I am, and that's why I have given up my former career as a Software Engineer and now am wholly focused on Organic Food production and sustainable methods of producing food.

The next time you are in a supermarkt, take a note of what people are buying. Then, take a look at them and see if they are healthy looking... When one starts to recognize the signs of stress, illness, and sadness, you'll quickly see the correlation to what they have in their shopping carts.

[ieoeja]

24. You'd better be a qualified tax lawyer as well.

I'm listening to a guy on TV the other morning talking about stimulus tax plans that would let you withdraw money from your 401(k), put it into your IRA, roll it over to a Roth account, and so on. I've been programming international financial systems for a quarter of a century ... and I'm not sure I could follow all the complications.

This is what happens when you let a bunch of lawyers write the stimulus. You end up with a stimulus nobody can use except for other lawyers. Can they really be stupid enough to think this is useful?

Of course, they can. As someone else already posted, we have to be medical experts so we can shop around for the right doctor. Like I can fucking judge doctors. For that matter, it's a pretty good bet even the Republicans advocating this idea would, when put to the test, discover they really have no idea how to go about finding a good doctor. But they just haven't thought it through that far. Because they have more faith in their ideology than in their own reasoning abilities (which in the case of the GOP, I can understand).

[readmoreoften]

70. And another thing: you should be able to fix every damn thing you own, you damn whiner!

That central air unit you saved all year for stops working--go buy a book and figure out how to fix it!

Whattaya mean you can't afford to hire someone to install tile, change ceiling fans, or put in a new sink and faucets? It's lazy consumers like you who're ruining America.

Hungry? Why don't you grow chickens in your back yard like other enterprising young folks! Grew up in the industrial North East? Still LIVE in the industrial NE? No excuse. You should also garden, bike to work, and can vegetables.

So in other words: I should get up at 3am to feed my chickens and do some canning and pack my low footprint organic lunch before I start to ride my bike through my gang-ridden neighborhood all the way down the highway to where I work, which is a 45 minute car drive away (I know! It's a sin! But it's the only university that would hire me and I already was foolish enough to own a house! Excuse me, hold a mortgage--the bank owns it.) Then after teaching all day and holding office hours, I should ride my bike home in the dark and when I get home at midnight, I should read those books on how to fix my air conditioner. And I should DO MY HOMEWORK on where best to buy the bicycle pump to fix my bike's flat tire, then buy it online because I'll never be able to get to the store.

But now it's already 3am and I'm up to feed the chickens. Good thing I don't have to sleep or have kids or have a friend in the world. And hope your computer doesn't break down because then "you oughta be able to fix that too"...

[Grinchie]

111. You are so right Kitty

It appears that Capitalism today depends on people learning the hard way by being taken advantage of by unscrupulous people.

At this point in my life, I consider myself and expert in the fields that you mentioned, simply because it is a necessity in order to function outside of the common Social Structure.

As I work only for myself, I have found that I can become just as well versed as a Domain Expert in the time it takes to actually find one that is Qualified.

Yes, we can all be unsure of our capabilities at times, such as when we arrive at the minutiae of legal issues, but that's when we sleep on it and let our marvelous brains work out the solution.

When in doubt, we find a book, and if we have difficulty finding a good book on the subject, we ait until we have enough information to make an informed decision.

Life is easy when we no longer treat events as Yes or No, Good or Bad, or Now or Never.

[dotymed]

141. Also,

If you happen to be wealthy, or even a member of the "UMC", said rules do not apply to you unless you have consistently broken them. If you are famous and or wealthy, unless the "tabloids" expose you, you can get by with anything. Let's not forget the TeeVee Evangelists. I was raised to believe a "true" servant of "God", took a vow of poverty, so they could relate with the "common people." Now, they teach you in this "capitalistic" society, that "God" wants you to financially prosper (become rich) and they can help you do it. When I was young, the saying was: "capitalism may not be perfect but no other system is better." B.S., look around, America is one of the few (only?) countries that practice an almost pure form of social and financial Darwinism. While we may have more weapons than any other country, we also perpetuate some of the worst civil rights violations in the world. The result of barely regulated capitalism has produced one of the worst governments in history and a population of mainly slaves who are really guilty until proven innocent. Unless of course, you have the money to buy your way out. Of course there are a few exceptions that I view as sacrifices to the proletariat, to keep them mollified. We have to end the Fascism that has overtaken our government, regulate the corporations and use windfall taxes on the wealthy (or just reinstate the tax structure that FDR had) to re-distribute the wealth in a proportional way. Also, without a manufacturing base that provides living wages and benefits (paid leave,vacations,etc...like other "civilized nations", and universal health care) we will never be able to accomplish this. Before all of these "free trade acts" (nothing free about them) we had tariffs on imported goods which made it possible for citizens to earn a living wage, while the elite could realize a fair profit. Since the MSM has become nothing more than a propaganda mill, we stand no chance of having an informed populace. We have to take control from the elite and make life in America worth living. A "service economy" is, by definition, a country of slaves and a few masters.

[n2doc]

2. Exception: if you are born a Bush

Then your whole life can be an error and you still get to be president....

[HughBeaumont]

3. Barring MASSIVE electoral fraud . . .

. . . I think King Dumbass Thuh Sec'nd fortunately screw'd the pooch for the rest of that loathsome bunch.

He did enough damage to last a lifetime, unfortunately.

[NoQuarter]

101. FTW!

[LibDemAlways]

5. Wish I could rec this a thousand times Hugh.

You are right on about everything, but I especially appreciate your calling out so-called "education" which today means getting on a treadmill at 5 (or earlier) and off only when every ounce of energy or desire to learn anything has been squeezed out of you. I posted a thread a few weeks ago describing a ridiculous over-the-top assignment my 11th grade daughter was required to complete and was thoroughly trashed by DUers who basically said kids should be slaves to school the way workers are slaves to their jobs. Give me a fucking break.

Wish everyone saw things your way. We'd all be a lot better off.

[jotsy]

117. So say I as well.

My three kids are 28, 20, and 13, (as of tomorrow) so I've been a continual passenger on the bogus school train for some time now. My middle child was ivy league bound and a competitive athlete until the 10th grade, everything about her path changed because she wouldn't suck up to a coach. I was warned not to win the battle and lose the war, good advice I failed to heed. The coach got canned, but my daughter is now working as a lifeguard while attending a community college. A blue collar kid who was once the #8 tennis playing girl in the region and scored in the top 10 percent on her PSATs. It's only now dawning on her, how much they have taken from her out of spite.

Believe in your kids first, these so called experts should be ashamed of what they must now is toxic to the developing mind and promote it as necessary to "succeed". My problem isn't so much with the teachers, but the district and the system.
Should you ever seek comfort or counsel from someone here at DU on matters of education, check out madfloridian.

She sounds amazing, good job!

[Odin2005]

8. K&R!

:yourock:

[varelse]

13. We're punishing those suffering from the symptoms

instead of looking for a cure for the disease.

[HughBeaumont]

15. Exactly. And as we all know in Dumberica . . .

. . . there's no profit$ in curing, only in treatment. Or at least the illusion of treatment.

[Cronus Protagonist]

14. I read every BOLDED word

And I still don't understand it. Can anyone provide Cliff notes please?

[hfojvt]

16. this certainly is not true

"Starting around about . . . junior high . . . every, and The Rock means EVERY decision you make has to be the right one. Your career choice better be correct. Don’t get arrested. Don’t make waves. Keep your damned trap shut. Do exactly as you’re told. Kiss your ‘betters’ asses with vigor. Don’t gamble. No substance abuse. Keep up with all the latest fashion trends. Stay away from psychotic significant others. Go to college, go to graduate school (because a bachelors simply ain’t enough anymore), get a great job and keep it. Never get fired, because you need this job. Exercise a lot, because being perfect means looking perfect. If you’re slightly unattractive, do whatever you can to correct that. Live in great neighborhoods. Network with the right people. Hone your prognostication abilities."

Consider George W. Bush. Cocaine use and drunkness until he was 40 and he still became POTUS. Consider Obama. Drug use in his teens and he still became POTUS. I could also point to my brother's drinking, gambling and scrapes with the law. Didn't ruin his life (his wife did that).

[HughBeaumont]

18. Er, everything above "So, does all of this sound patently ridiculous?" is satirical.

The point of that paragraph is that it's idiotic to expect humans can be perfect, even though more often than not, imperfection of any kind results in years of digging out. Society, government and corporate America just expect way too much of us. There aren't 36 hours in a day.

However, Barack Obama and Bewsh's exceptions notwithstanding, people don't beat the odds on substance abuse as much as others think they do. I used to drink beer, wine and gin like a fish when I was a teenager. I stopped when I was 19 before any substantial damage could occur. I also never saw any positive outcomes from those who engaged in heavy drug/alcohol usage.

[Nikia]

88. Well, my husband is a "felon" for life because he had a substance abuse problem

And it was only pot.
Now he will be considered scum for the rest of his life.

[HughBeaumont]

97. I'm wondering myself what my BIL's going to do when he gets out.

His was far more serious. We're talking years serious. With the amount of scrutiny in this job market, I'm guessing he'll be a house-husband for a bit.

[hfojvt]

110. Nikia!!

I was just thinking about you, and thought 'she does not post any more'.

Of course, 'using drugs' and 'getting arrested and convicted for doing so' are two different things. All I said was that 'drug use' is not automatically a barrier to 'success'.

[Nikia]

144. I've been busy

I work around 50 hours per week at my current job and now have a one year old so I don't post very often anymore. I try to read DU a few times per week though and occaisionally post if I feel like it.

[NoQuarter]

102. See comment #2.

[Festivito]

17. Actually, just rich is best. It's all class warfare. The love of money.

After it all boils down, that's where we are.

[HughBeaumont]

19. If Americans were allowed to make a living at what they do, shouldn't that be enough?

Rich is nice, but why should they be the only ones allowed to have a commodity that seems to be scarcer and scarcer as time goes on: Peace of Mind?

Wages aren't keeping up with the cost of living and haven't been for 30 years. There isn't any job security anymore. Our social safety net is garbage. 9 out of 10 entrepreneurs fail. Inventions are done by corporations; if not, they'll send jackals to stomp your prior art claim.

I walk past giant homes on the lakefront where I live and often wonder what they did to get that? Is it really possible to go through life without any landmines whatsoever? I just think there'd be no way I'd ever even have close to half of these people's net worths . . . the only way it would happen is if none of life's ginormous setbacks stomped a hole in my plans.

Like those books and articles that tell you "if you saved this much a month, you'll be a millionaire by the time you're 65". Well, what if I lose my job? What if I get sick? What if an accident or costly repair happens? What if a necessary appliance breaks down?

[Festivito]

20. If born rich, dad's gone, kid only knows how to keep money from others.

The kid can't create more wealth. Doesn't have the spark dad had.

The kid, therefore, doesn't want you to have a better position than himself.
You don't get cost of living.
You don't get secure jobs.
You don't get a level playground for your business.
You don't get to keep your invention profits.
You don't get to have full health care, you, you, you, communist you.
You don't get to have enough income to cover all your losses.
You don't get to save until age 65.

Otherwise, you become a rival. You might overtake the wealth that nurtured the kid.

He does, however, love his money, and love those who help him keep his position.

The Bible says that the love of money is the root of all evil.

That should at least be interesting.

[HughBeaumont]

23. True. And you just described Steve Forbes. To the letter.

[Festivito]

25. It won't follow for EVERYONE rich.

The problem is that the ones least promising, work the hardest and with the least scruples, depending on a host of things that might have happened in their lives.

[laughingliberal]

76. What if the stock market melts down when you're 64? Good post. This is our world nt

[JFN1]

46. I really like how you said that

You didn't say "who we are," you said, "where we are."

Spot on.

[treestar]

21. Yes, the slightest criminal record

Follows you around forever. People are too lazy to consider each individual, so they use a standard inflexibly.

[Hello_Kitty]

28. They check your credit for practically every job now too.

Because if you're broke and in debt you obviously don't need a job. :crazy:

[taught_me_patience]

22. I totally disagree with this.

Many people from all walks of life have become successful in America. America is probably the best country in the world to "start over" if you experience failure.

[HughBeaumont]

26. Of course you would. You're a Milton Friedman, free-trade disciple.

I would too, if I believed the Horatio Algerist bullcrapola the corporate carrot-fishermen foisted in front of me to keep me content.

Unfortunately, I live in this little realm called reality.

The atrocious job market numbers of the past 10 years, soaring college costs that leave kids in massive debt before they get started, three-decade wage stagnation, alarming rate of small business failures, near-poverty-level social safety nets and 37th-ranked health care in the world . . . well, that's all kind of the truth, Ruth.

[Pithlet]

27. Yep. But the secret is luck had a part in their successes.

The truth is, you can do everything right in this country and still lose. Anyone who thinks otherwise is a naive fool at best. Anyone who thinks those down on their luck just got that way because they didn't want it bad enough... see above.

[taught_me_patience]

29. Of course luck is a factor success

I was just commenting that I believe that America is the best country to "start over" if you've failed in the past. It's also, in my opinion, the best country to rise from modest means. No country in the world rewards risk-taking like America. Of course, with risk comes failure.

If you ain't failing, you ain't trying hard enough.

[Dr.Phool]

40. Actually, no it's not.

I was reading a study about a year ago (Don't have a link anymore), that said the Horatio Alger story is pretty much myth. You're over 95% likely to die in the same class, and social status you were born in.

The study also said that the US was one of the most adverse environments for starting your own business or becoming an entrepreneur, and our healthcare system was a major factor in that. Nobody is willing to leave a decent paying job, with benefits, to strike out on their own.

[laughingliberal]

77. That goes along with what I've read and seen

I wonder at people who push this idea that America is the best place to start over, etc...Wouldn't it be better to start over somewhere with a strong safety net so you're not starving while you're starting over?

[HughBeaumont]

42. Workers "try hard enough" every day.

I don't view someone who loses everything as a loser. I view them as a fighter. I don't view life as one giant competition meant to be "won" or "lost".

Poor people aren't that way because they didn't "Try Hard Enough". Poor people are some of the hardest workers I've ever seen.

Sure, America rewards risk taking. Witness hedge fund directors: they risk other people's money, and are rewarded handsomely . . . no matter if they gain or lose it. Nice work if you can get it. Try starting up a business and failing and see if you're rewarded with anything except a fat goose egg and Square One. Does a bad economic climate now = "not trying hard enough"? That's a stretch in logic if I ever heard one.

If you really want me to take you seriously, please dispense with the flimsy Libertarian talking points.

[Grinchie]

122. Actually, losing everything can be a positive experience.

It happened to me as a direct result of Enron bankrupting California, hence my logo.

During the spiral to bankrauptcy, when the jobs dried up and the money became too slim to sustain the mortgages on my farm, I didn't fall into depression, but I continued to maintain my Farm, and it kept me solvent for 2 years before I had to file.

It was that experience that I Learned what TRUE Wealth really is, and it's not a high paying job with benefits. Ultimately, I lost the Farm and it was sold at auction, but since I had maintained it, it paid off all my debts, and left me a tidy sum to start over with. It was that spiral down, and the motivation to keep my farm that forced me into teaching myself about money and the economy.

After that experience, I knew that I was going to be debt free for the rest of my life, and I invested all of my meager funds into a large tract of land. I was land rich, money poor, but since the creditors don't value any tools or farm equipment, I had all the implements I needed to work the land and rebuild my life.

I consider myself extremely lucky, and although I look like a Hippy, I have experience in many fields and disciplines. This is what throws people that are focused on the current social definition of wealth and success off balance. It's alien for them to witness a Scientist Farmer that doesn't care about external appearances. It's quite funny actually.

It's like they assume that I don't have hot and cold running water. I am actually very happy where I am, because it keeps people off guard, and when they try to pull lame brained, lame assed excuses to get out of there responsibility, they are immediately challenged by someone with knowledge, education and facts. This is especially true when dealing with county government these days, when they really are not inclined to perform any social services due to budgetary constraints.

I personally take great enjoyment in being able to get them to do what I want, simply because "I Have Done the Homework" long before I ever deal with a project. I know some people take objection to that statement, but it really is something that needs to be done if you want to approach any situation and win, especially when confronted by agencies who sit around and strategize on how to pass the buck and give you the run around.

After my Bankruptcy, I now approach everything like a business startup. I budget everything, and look at it from many different angles. After you do this for a while, you begin to realize that many Businesses are simply unsustainable, and rely on some other unseen input to survive. Up until this point, it was the free flow of Credit and the assumption of massive debt.

Many people are now facing the same reality I faced years ago, but they are not going to be as fortunate as I was. The credit is gone, and the money has been destroyed by bad debt. We still have a long way to go before we hit bottom, despite what the cheerleaders tell us. It all propaganda and opinion shaping anyway. They may get a few people to fall for it, but the fundamntals do not lie. Math does not lie. The number of empty Industrial Campuses do not lie. The number of empty house in some sort of distress, rotting and decaying do not lie. The plummeting Tax revenues by County, State and Federal Government does not lie. Yet, somehow we still maintain 2 wars on Foreign Soil, are able to bully the Sovereign nation of Iran, and continue to build the War Machine non stop. That does not lie either, but the way they are funding these Wars IS A LIE, and we are all going to pay for it sooner or later.

In the meantime, I'll maintain my easygoing lifestyle, working for myself and my own comfort, be able to live off the productivity of my own labor and the land, and totally able to withold funding from the IRS and paying for policies that focus on War and Corporations, simply because I do not work for money anymore. It is truly liberating.

All it takes is the guts to actually simplify and try it for a while. If you can develop the skills to live happily, you can then eveolved into better conditions and be able to enhance your lifestyle, while at the same time witholding any funds or support from the Corporate government. It's the only way I can see that Americans can take back control, and that is by redefining consumption, production, and wealth.

[Pithlet]

43. I don't think that's true.

I don't remember the specifics, but I remember reading about social mobility, and the US did not rank number one in that regard. I'm not saying it's impossible. I don't think that people who start off on the bottom rung should just throw up their hands and give up. I think the OP is a send up of the Pull Yourself Up By the Boot Straps Personal Responsibility It's All Your Fault mentality and how pervasive it is.

[rantormusing]

47. Can you provide facts

About this fresh start that is suppose to exist, say if you can't pay your school loans, is there a fresh start? If you get busted at 18 for pot, is there a fresh start? If you are unemployed and have trouble making ends meet, is there a fresh start? If you are turned down for job after job because you now have bad credit due to being unemployed for a year, is there a fresh start?

[HughBeaumont]

51. Friedmanites don't do "facts". Friedmanites do "faith".

Oh, and "Belief". As in, when others do the thinking.

For example, there's never really been an example where disaster corporatism has ever led to anything but wealth concentrated at the top and ruined economies, livelihoods and job markets for those at the bottom. But the American collegiate system is so invested in this cockamamie "theory" that they just keep indoctrinating people in Economics 101 classes, and this country will keep attempting this mess of a system until, by hook or crook, it's actually going to work.

You may find the rare occasion of an acquaintance around you that rebounded from bankruptcy or arrest or layoff, but the story often comes with a long period of hardship, debt and suffering. And that's for those who DO recover. More than a few never make up their savings, progress or salary. That's what happens when you live in a country where education and health care are both for profit: like economics, the risk and loss is socialized, the profits are privatized.

[rantormusing]

53. Exactly

Sometimes i hope that things will get better without further, more obvious, deterioration, but then i see comments like that. Which to be honest was one of the nicer ones I've seen. It all comes down to arrogance and for lack of a better term, hate. People will blame the unemployed and see them as subhuman before considering that something is clearly wrong with our economy.

[fascisthunter]

66. ideological fanaticism exists in economics

and it now takes precedent over every part of life in the US. Everything is bought and sold, nothing has any soul or purpose other than maintaining wealth for those who were born on third base, but too deluded to realize it. SOme do... they turn out alright and try to help the rest of us. The rest, they read Friedman garbage only to deny it's failure and destructive conclusion... when applied to reality, their theory is bullshit, proven unworthy of consideration for the likes of "We the People".

They know it, and they know we are starting to figure shit out. Nervous? They should be....

[laughingliberal]

91. +1000 I started over twice before but this is not the same world we were in, then

Even 11 years ago, I was wiped out in a flood, 43 years old and starting over just like I was 22 again and built it back up. That was the 2nd time. First time I was wiped out 10 years before that by medical expenses (and had insurance at the time). Now, my husband's business failed in '06, I lost my job in '07 and I don't see an end in sight.

[Grinchie]

124. Thats why people need to educate themselves

The system in place is used primarily for classifying people into little pigeonholes, which produces a society full of specialists that are unable to handle, or are unwilling to attempt anything outside their specialty. This leads to the "Not My Yob" or "Not My Paygrade" syndrome, which untilmately leads to lack of accountability and passing the buck.

Nearly all of the great invetors and Scientists were Polymath, meaning they had education in languages, math, astronomy, engineering, trigonometry, navigation, carpentry, art, etc. This was somehow transformed into "Liberal Arts", which has been systematically demonized by the Government and big business for years.

Centralized control of specialists is a false system. We need smart people to ensure that we have checks and balances, as well as the training to stop bad Ideas from taking root.

Specialist invariably are not qualified to make judgements or determinations outside of the specialty, and it is just used as an excuse to pass the buck.

[rantormusing]

48. dupe

dupe

[rantormusing]

49. Dupe

Dupe

[LibDemAlways]

34. "You can do everything right in this country and still lose." Amen. In

fact, you will more than likely lose because many others will do anything in their power to abuse you, step on you, step over you, stab you in the back, etc....so that they can win.

When things went south for him, my dad would always rhetorically ask, "Who did I kill?" In other words, what did I do to deserve this? The answer will always be, "Nothing. You did the best you could given your circumstances. Sometimes shit happens, and if you are a little guy you can bet it will more than likely happen to you."

[NoQuarter]

104. Yeah, I suppose

selling enough snake oil to the willfully ignorant, gullible masses before someone blows the whistle on your scam might be call being successful. But just think about "The Picture Of Dorian Gray" for a moment.

[MH1]

30. Agree with the luck part, not the "have to be perfect" part

I've violated quite a few of those points and I'm doing pretty well. (Not well enough for some folks but a lot better than most. But that's the LUCK part and I acknowledge that.)

of course most of my sins happened before the Facebook era so maybe I'm not a good example.

eta: I rec'd it though because I agree with the main points. The have to be perfect part is obvious hype but the rest is sadly true.

[HughBeaumont]

32. The "perfect" part is meant to be satire.

I think if we held everyone to that standard, obviously we'd be cancelling out a lot of presidents, world leaders, musicians, artists, etc. :rofl:

What I was going for is that it seems there's no room for error in Modern America. You can't qualify for health care if you're defected in any way. You can't "do what you love, and the money will follow"; you know, unless "what you love" is investment banking or being a doctor or something like that. Your career choice has to be the right one. Every decision you make has to be the right one. And your luck definitely has to be better than average.

There are families (I think a majority of families in America) that literally have not one penny to save for themselves, let alone have anything to lose.

We've lost "peace of mind" because it's just getting harder and harder to recover from these bad situations, and I think that's what contributes to America's current malaise. For instance, I was fortunate enough to graduate from college debt-free. Not many people nowadays can say the same thing, unfortunately.

[Trillo]

31. "opportunities you missed"?

Have Americans yet concluded that "opportunities" are simply another scam with a built-in punishment, at the time of the presentment as yet unrevealed? Perhaps this delineates a major difference between older folks and younger ones who haven't yet been around Scammer's Block far too many times.

Edit: Too many typos.

[The_Commonist]

33. Working Class Hero

As soon as you're born they make you feel small,
By giving you no time instead of it all,
Till the pain is so big you feel nothing at all,
A working class hero is something to be,
A working class hero is something to be.

They hurt you at home and they hit you at school,
They hate you if you're clever and they despise a fool,
Till you're so fucking crazy you can't follow their rules,
A working class hero is something to be,
A working class hero is something to be.

When they've tortured and scared you for twenty odd years,
Then they expect you to pick a career,
When you can't really function you're so full of fear,
A working class hero is something to be,
A working class hero is something to be.

Keep you doped with religion and sex and TV,
And you think you're so clever and classless and free,
But you're still fucking peasants as far as I can see,
A working class hero is something to be,
A working class hero is something to be.

There's room at the top they are telling you still,
But first you must learn how to smile as you kill,
If you want to be like the folks on the hill,
A working class hero is something to be.
A working class hero is something to be.

If you want to be a hero well just follow me,
If you want to be a hero well just follow me.

John Lennon
1970

[jotsy]

108. That's just an awesome contribution to this discussion, tyvm!

:applause:

[bertman]

35. This is overblown hyperbole of the grossest sort, Hugh. I GET what you're TRYING to say,

but it's wrapped up in so much B.S. that it obscures the reasonable arguments you make.

[HughBeaumont]

41. Precisely. You had a business, you made it. Other people aren't as fortunate.

Someone who did it and IS successful doesn't seem to get that life is no longer as cheap or as opportune as it used to be. America is now a land where even a master's degree is no longer a guarantee of job security. You can do all of the "right" and "correct" things and it doesn't matter. Someone's always gonna be cheaper. That's the way it is. Sorry if you don't see it that way, but that doesn't change things.

[bertman]

52. Yes, I do have a business. But I HAVE NOT "made it". And I am keenly aware that there are

others who are FAR LESS fortunate than I. But the reality is that my business could go under in this economic climate, just like a million others like it. If that happens I won't consider myself to be any more or less special than the others who have lost what they once thought they had.

The comment you lead off with is just wrong. You don't have to be perfect and never fail OR become a bum. I know people who have been waaayyy less than perfect and downright UNlucky who kept going and have become what I would call successful people in many different jobs and professions. Maybe they are the exception to your comment, but I think not. I think most of us screw up a lot. Some of us screw up and REALLY GET SCREWED too. But I think most of us recover from our screwups. We still are not perfect, yet we manage to do just fine most of the time.

We all need to realize that we are going through a culture shock of learning that our GREAT AMERICA ain't as great as we thought it was. It isn't the land of opportunity anymore except for those coming from abject poverty who think that working for minimum wage is a better life, or those who are willing to be cutthroats toward their fellow men and women. We've been surfing the top of the wave for better than a half century, but we're now learning how the other half lives--or more likely the other three-quarters.

This is the way the world is. It's dog eat dog, but we've been shielded from that for a lot of reasons. Now we're seeing how vulnerable we are. The predators are eyeing the herd to see what else they can get for themselves, while we mill around like helpless, dumb cattle waiting for the wolves to attack again.

Civilization is supposed to protect us from this. Our democratic form of government is supposed to protect us from this. But ultimately, our democratic form of government demands that WE PROTECT OURSELVES by working to ensure that our government IS democratic. We fell down on that obligation and now we are paying the price. Well, actually, I have to say that we were really PUSHED down and now we're paying the price. We were pushed down slowly and gently by the velvet glove of mass propaganda and distraction. It was and is being done by those who, like the RULING ELITES of all ages, be they chieftains or kings or emperors or popes or califs or warlords, have sacrificed the masses for their own wealth and power. They aren't lucky. They're smart, cunning, ruthless, and want what you and I have (or had).

It has nothing to do with LUCK or being a BUM. In my opinion.

[HughBeaumont]

75. The first 9 paragraphs were meant to be sarcastic.

I think that's what you're missing here. Naturally, I don't expect anyone to be perfect, no one is.

But what about Big Business? The reality is, to be a viable employee in Corporate America's eyes, you have to look a certain way. Have the right amount of experience in the right fields. Be a certain age. Not be out of work for an extended period of time. Have the proper papers. Have at least 2-3 forms of ID. Not have any prior arrests. Have the correct credit score. Are we now saying that it's fair that humans live up to such a nonsensical standard? Back in the day, we used to value experience, no matter what the worker's age was. Now we only value lots of experience if said worker is 27-32 years old.

Let's move on to Big Insurance. You have to be the right height. The right weight. Have a pristine and clear medical history from the time you step out of the crib. The right genes. No bad history with your family. No accidents, flaws, or emergencies of any kind. Any red flag, you're denied coverage. Health care is a human RIGHT and we're making it into a human LOTTERY and it's a disgrace.

We can assure all we want that the government is democratic, but what can the average citizen do to prevent the full-on corporatization of government? Government is not doing a single thing to help the American work force. There isn't any engine for growth because all of the wealth is concentrated at the top and that top isn't being taxed like they should be. It's an unbridled circus and all of their risk and loss has been shifted onto us.

We're telling all of these kids to go to college and get masters degrees and indebt themselves in a hole they can't get out of . . . and what's the result? My brother-in-law, a district manager at a CD store, has 4 people freshly graduated from college starting at 8 dollars an hour, which is just above this state's minimum, because they cannot find liveable wage jobs. 8 dollars an hour was an inadequate wage in 1995. I can't even imagine the lack of buying power that has now.

One of the best and most simplistic posts of this thread said: "We're punishing those suffering from the symptoms instead of looking for a cure for the disease." And because of that, rebounding isn't the moderate route it used to be.

People do mess up, no one is saying you can't or you won't, because you're going to and you're going to have unforseen landmines. Rebounding from those mess-ups is getting more and more difficult because

* Wages have not been keeping up with the cost of living for 30 years.
* The private sector job market has been worse-than-useless for a decade.
* There's still no universal health care and American health care does whatever it can do to shift as much cost on to the individual as possible.
* Thanks to no real wage increase, Americans now have a flat or negative savings rate.
* America would rather spend it's money killing foreign people than helping our citizens.
* American students are taking on loads of insurmountable debt just to get the tools needed to enter a workforce that refuses to train them, would rather hire a cheaper substitute from another country and has experienced people competing for entry-level positions.

America has no future if we keep this up. I've long since said we aren't the greatest nation on Earth anymore. I don't think that means we should be riding the rocket to becoming mediocre to below average. Reality demands money. Like I asked above - what's in it for you, the businessman, to decrease your customer base? Can you ask anyone who happens to be a CEO in a large company how he can do business . . . without business? I really want to know how they expect that to work.

[bertman]

115. My sarcasm detector was misfiring yesterday, so I was not in tune with the vibe of the

first 9 paragraphs, Hugh.

As I said, I GET what you are saying. And I mostly agree with you despite some oversimplifications. For ex., I can't say what corporations demand in terms of experience, no convictions, etc., so I'll forego commenting on that. However, my experience with Big Insurance does not jive with your assertions. (But first, let me state unequivocally that I feel that Health Insurance as it exists in the U.S. is evil, immoral, and contributing to the demise of our nation). I have had a number of accidents that required hospitalization, plus a couple of pre-existing conditions, plus my dad had a heart condition and my grandparents had all kinds of ailments, yet I have been able to get medical coverage at what I consider (after seeing what others are paying) to be a reasonable rate. Nonetheless, I have employees who have health insurance but who cannot afford to pay the co-pays and deductibles, so they forego the exams and some care that they should have. I wish I could pay them more, but it's not feasible. So, they, despite being productive, hard-working citizens, are being screwed by our piss-poor system of care. And sadly, the Democrats are enshrining that system with their feeble attempts at "reform".

Our government is NOT democratic or even representative--except for representing the moneyed interests. It's only obligation to We The People seems to be to tax us more, reduce the good things our government does for us, spy on us, and ensure that we don't get too "uppity".

"Like I asked above - what's in it for you, the businessman, to decrease your customer base? Can you ask anyone who happens to be a CEO in a large company how he can do business . . . without business? I really want to know how they expect that to work." Great questions, Hugh. The answers are: for me, we could survive, but not thrive, with a smaller customer base. For the CEO of a large company, he would probably survive too, but "down-sizing" and reduced benefits would be required to keep the stockholders happy--or at least mildly happy.

I agree that America has only a bleak future if we keep this up. And NO future if we don't recognize and deal with the environmental devastation we have wrought.

[Go2Peace]

82. Actually they are the exception.

I wish I could find it but there was a recent study on intergenerational economic mobility and we have very little class mobility. The old "American Dream" that if you work hard you can become rich is bullshit at this point in history. Sure there are some but statistically the inertia is heavily against upward mobility.

Your income is far more predicated by who your parents are, how much money they have, and how committed they are to spending it to help you than on "hard work" in this society at this time.


I have a truly "middle income" salaried job, but having lived in other countries, if I was to open a new business I would attempt it in either Europe, where they have better economic mobility, or even better, in a 2cd world country, where my skills will actually give me a significant edge.

Unfortunately, to a fair extent this OP is fairly indicative of where are are/are going

[earcandle]

94. Donovan wrote a song about that! We just covered it. Riki Tiki Tavi

Riki Tiki Tavi

We were smarter in the 60's and 70's and you are right, we have been pushed down slowly and gently with a
velvet glove since then. Duped

[Grinchie]

126. Lol, I tripped over a Mongoose yesterday..

Seriously.

[earcandle]

146. Where were you where mongooses can be found?

that is trippy, no pun intended.

[Grinchie]

125. Your right. The Marketing Campaign has been exposed as a fraud

I think that's why we voted for Change we can Believe In".

Unfortunately, we have received the status quo, simply becasue the collapse of the fraud is so severe and dramatic.

Hollywood is attempting to buy some time for the real rulers of the country, but they are failing misably, simply because they are trying to maintian the illusion.

People are not so stupid as they would like to think, even though they try every day to make us afraid to buck the system, or make meaningful changes that would pull many Americans out of their grasp.

As far as the business climate goes, I hear you. After my bankruptcy, I vowed to never overreach and go too fast ever again. This vow has enabled me to slowly build capital while I review the business climate.

As far as I can tell, we need a drastic shift in the attitudes of Americans regarding food production. I see an increased return to manual labor in truly sustainable farms, and a movement towards barter in lieu of money in exchange for the basic necessities, like healthy food.

As a Farmer, I am amazed how much change I can attain, and marvel at the subsequent production with very little labor. It's hard work, but I've been doing it for 20 years and I still going strong.

When people realize that there is a different way to live, totally apart from the rat race and the pursuit of money doing meaningless jobs in support of unsustainable production, more people will move away from the status quo, thus starving them to death.

Change is in the air, it's just too bad the current Administration is not the one promoting meaningful change. It is up to us.

[bertman]

132. "Change is in the air, it's just too bad the current Administration is not the one promoting

meaningful change. It is up to us."

Truer words were never spoken, Grinchie. Your comments about farming and a different way to live are inspirational.

[Grinchie]

135. Thank you and Mahalo

Best wishes to you

[jonnyblitz]

36. k & r excellent read !

:hi:

[HughBeaumont]

44. BLITZ!

:headbang:

[Dr.Phool]

38. Wow! I can play Space Invaders again?

[HughBeaumont]

39. I can.

And Robotron, Time Pilot, Joust and Smash TV.

MAME32 = great.

[juno jones]

45. If I could rec a million times I would. n/t

[rantormusing]

50. Thank you

I can't say much more than that, if people want to scorn the post for style that's their ignorance not yours.

[me b zola]

54. Recommended

~and many thanks for this thread. :thumbsup:

[Jkid]

55. What your practically described is American Social Darwinism or Neo-Individualism

The first five paragraphs basically describes this type of individualism. While individualism is important in American culture, neo-liberalism is basically "that's your problem" way of thinking. That type of individualism needs to be abolished.

[Go2Peace]

85. I am glad some people understand this phenominon. I wish more did

It is very heavily engrained in our modern ideologies. Robert Reich, Clinton's labor secretary, who I consider to be a generally progressive person and all around well meaning person, used to buy fairly heavily into neo-liberalism. I wrote him and told him in the late 90s that some of what he was advocating sounded close to social darwinism. I was surprised to get a very personal reply that was quite defensive. Interestingly, not long after he changed his tone and appears to have completely reversed on the idea.

I think a lot of our Democratic leadership has bought into the idea that we have to accept that "progress" rewuired many on the lower end of the strata to suffer as a natural consequence.

[HughBeaumont]

98. Eccch. I remember him defending job offshoring on TV.

And thinking This is supposed to be a Democrat?? Smells like more Republican bullshit to me.

[scentopine]

56. And the funny thing about education is...

it's the latest weapon being used to deffer responsibility away from massive bloated corporations on to the guilt-ridden backs of powerless individuals.

Fortune 500 has invested more than $1 trillion training unskilled labor in the most remote, and unregulated labor markets around the world. So, as an individual - you listen to Obama's lectures on education - aware that colleges are run like corporations and their prices far exceed inflation, 10% a year or more - you vote for increased property taxes so kids in kindergarten can get familiar with the latest microsoft products starting in kindergarten.

Funny thing is companies like microsoft and like AT&T are (at this very instant in time) out spending your public school budget training low skilled labor in India and China. Yep - so your 12 year old just built up his first computer. Jokes on you - a company like intel is training a 24 year old in Bangalore who didn't really start using computers until he was, um, 24.

Why? Because the labor markets there are largely unregulated, benefits are sparse and inequitably available, and much of the labor is obtained via contract agencies - carefully shielding the corporation. It is the sweetest deal ever. Even if they lose money on the deal, the executives love it - out of sight, out of mind. Female employee's raped and abused? Forced overtime? Its a matter for the local athorities. Get cancer? You are easily fired and replaced.

Even Mexico is hurting because the jobs Wall Street stole from main street, and sold to Mexico for pennies on the dollar, are leaving Mexico and going to Asia for pennies on the dollar.

In the process, by having Wall Street take our tax dollars and tax breaks, Wall Street has sold our intellectual property (that's the stuff you spent your life learning and perfecting). So even if you are perfect, it is likely to be sold to Asia for ? You guessed it - pennies on the dollar.

And while Wall Street saturates the media in defense of their outrageously bloated pay - they say this wealth is needed to attract the best and brightest. Then, they go back to work punishing everyone else who doesn't outsource to low wage centers in Asia.

So the centrists, realists, moderates, neo-libs, neo-cons, individualists, right wingers, think its all your fault. It isn't. Its all about the rich and powerful taking the fragile intellectual framework that holds the nation together, realizing they can exploit it like oil and gas and coal, and selling it on a commodity market.

When I hear Obama lecturing me and my kid (who today brought home another straight-a report card) about education, I know what lies ahead. Charter schools run like corporations? You must be fucking joking, right? Hard work, accomplishments will land your ass in the gutter the minute the CEO finds someone to do your work at a fraction of the pay.

Before outsourcing (and twitter and email) we built nuclear submarines, computers, rockets to the moon and back. CEOs earned what they were worth (mostly) and we had a real middle class. And public education built all this. Think about that when corporate America says we are too stupid to work for them (unless it pays min. wage and below).

Until we get Wall Street out of Washington life will get worse and worse here in America. We reward and worship the rich, punish the poor. Corporate America is turning us against each other - we need to turn against them.

[HughBeaumont]

69. Good post. Their tentacles are in nearly every aspect of our lives.

It's why this supposedly Democratic government cannot and will not get anything progressive accomplished; the wealthy's NEEDS have to be met FIRST. It's why when any president talks about how education is so important, I wonder if he's looking out of his window at this horrendous job market, which is mostly the creation of the blood-sucking, manipulative and downright spoiled private sector. What are the out-going seniors going to graduate INTO? What are we all going to DO for a living? What are our children going to do for a living? Has anyone, particularly those IN the bowels of corporate America, ever THOUGHT about this?

When you see people with Master's degrees and experience getting fired through no fault of their own, what's in it for me to GO to college? Where's the ROI? Where's the value added? There's no security anymore. There's no loyalty. My wage will likely not go up significantly. If I got laid off, chances are, I'd be out of a job for a long, LONG time. What's in it for ANY of us to continue with this loser system?

Say I'm a businessperson. What's in it for ME to DWINDLE my customer base? What's in it for ME to PREVENT people from buying my product? Wouldn't I WANT to have a successful and gainfully employed work-force so that they can, you know, buy my products? I mean, I dunno, I guess it must be nice to have that kind of luxury that you can operate with no business for years on end; that they can all collectively continue with their mass fire-a-thons and still be operable somehow. I really don't get how that works, but hey, what do I know?

But I'm THIIIINking even the remaining workers they're slaving to death for what used to be a regular wage are going to have a breaking point.

[Grinchie]

127. You don't understand it because it is a Fraud

These high paid Executives are simply getting Hush money in order to cover up the fact that this so called profit is not based on reality. It isn't, the CEO's are up to their necks in maintaining the fraudulent bookeeping, the hidden Enron style accounting fraud, and all the other sordid business that is destroying the world.

These guys are part of the club, and they work in Collusion with Government entities and the rest of the Hidden Government. They all know that they are one step away from going to prison, so thats why we see the Supreme Court pass rulings that require almost a written confession from a CEO when it comes to lawsuits claiming fraud and manipulation. We see it in the SEC looking the other way, or most revealing, the fact that Geithner asked AIG to not file documents regarding the Bailout money.

They actually think that Americans are so stupid as to not stop and take notice. That's what they are counting on, and perhaps it may work for a while, but in the end, it will all become a disastrous fail for the Big Ponzi Scheme that no longer has an endless pool of "Greater Fools" to buy in and finance the fraud.

People are waking up.

[HughBeaumont]

133. The SEC sure looked the other way when Madoff and others were Ponziing up their clients.

Sorry, but you don't get to pull that kind of heist off for that long without any SEC or OTS official being blind to it all. Those SEC shits knew, and they did NOTHING. Whistleblowers came forward. They were ignored.

It's . . . vaguely like the event that started The Great American 21st Century Swindle. They were warned by multiple sources ahead of time, and did absolutely NOTHING to stop it:

[Grinchie]

136. That's Old News, Nothing to see here, Please move along.

I no longer get angry at this, I just make a little note in my handy little diary and preserve it for a later date.

You'd be surprised how many people hate my notebook....

[laughingliberal]

78. +1000

[JDPriestly]

57. Wonderful, but may I point to another omission.

You must stay forever young. Turning 50, especially if you are a woman, is a big turn off -- unless you've already amassed your millions and can afford -- well you know -- to retire or, if you are well on your way to amassing your millions but not yet there and you must stay in the workforce, pay someone to make you look forever young. Remember, your boss doesn't like wrinkles, pot bellies or sagging boobs.

[LibDemAlways]

67. How true. And our popular culture totally reflects the sad reality.

Here in So Calif. many women over 40 (and many even younger) have succumbed to the notion that they need "tweaking" and end up with duck lips and skin pulled so tight they can't smile. It's horrific. What the hell ever happened to aging gracefully...or just plain aging?

[Cowpunk]

92. Plastic-faced freaks. Men and women.

They're all over my TV. I can barely stand to watch it anymore.

[HughBeaumont]

68. I should have included ageism with look-ism in that paragraph about "correct choices".

I'm 40, so I'm entering that realm myself. Can't look old or even slightly portly and have to color the grey out. Sad that it even matters, but it does. They want everyone to be 28, have 15 years experience and be willing to work for 30k a year or less.

[Grinchie]

128. Or they can change their name to Carly Fiorina

And sup at the table of Big Corporate Outsourcers.

[unapatriciated]

58. fu$# yes k&r

[Utopian Leftist]

61. Rugged Individualism

Here's what the famous Anarchist Emma Goldman had to say on this rugged individualism in America:

This "rugged individualism" has inevitably resulted in the greatest modern slavery, the crassest class distinctions, driving millions to the breadline. "Rugged individualism" has meant all the "individualism" for the masters, while the people are regimented into a slave caste to serve a handful of self-seeking "supermen." America is perhaps the best representative of this kind of individualism, in whose name political tyranny and social oppression are defended and held up as virtues; while every aspiration and attempt of man to gain freedom and social opportunity to live is denounced as "unAmerican" and evil in the name of that same individualism.

Keep in mind that she wrote, I'm pretty sure, during the Great Depression. How is it possible that anyone still believes in this crap? Is there something genetic that makes people so willfully ignorant? Or is it nothing but pride and vanity?

[Naturyl]

62. Happy to be the +90 vote

Good post.

[clyrc]

63. De-lurking to say I love this post

and to say Thank You!

[earcandle]

64. We used to have rehabilitation centers that helped the poor get trained

and public education was standardly good across the country.

[daughter of liberty2]

71. Thanks for the great post!

:applause:

[tango-tee]

72. You nailed it.

And what never ceases to amaze me... "Pro Lifers" supposedly care about the sacred life of the unborn child from the time it is a zygote. It is odd though, that this wild-eyed loving and caring comes to a screeching halt once this formerly cherished being has popped out of the womb and has actual *needs*. Suddenly, it is "too bad, so sad" for both mother and child and they are nothing but a burden to society. Mama should have thought of that before she became pregnant! Welfare queen! Leech! Sterilization!

What to do? I simply don't know. At times, I despair.

[Paper Roses]

73. Excellent post. Hits home for so many of us. Truth is sometimes

so depressing. I guess I should feel fortunate that years ago, I thought that if I worked hard...and I did, things would be a little easier as I got older. We all know how that has turned out. I was naive in thinking that my husband and I would someday retire and ride off into the sunset.

I am not poor, I have a house, food on the table, I have a 6 year old car that runs. If I don't eat much, keep the heat to 62 degrees, I might have a warmish house. We never did anything to excess. Worked, raised our 2 kids, thought we had it OK.

At any age, life can change in a minute. I am now a widow, my husband died suddenly of a stroke. I lost my job a few months after his death and at my age and job skill level, I am not having any luck finding anything. Our town had just raised property assessments and the $400.00 a month I put to the side from my SS check will not be enough to cover the whopping 30,000 rise in my assessment. At a time when Real Estate values have tanked, many of us in town are hit with this present.

The antidepressant I have taken since my husband died seems not to be doing much any more. It is a constant worry about "what next".
I have become a "do it yourselfer". If I can't do it, I'm sunk. The house I live in will probably have to be sold in a few years. I doubt if I can keep this up. My unemployment runs out soon and I will be living on 932.00 a month. Poverty level. I am going to apply for any help I can get. Senior consideration for RE taxes, heating assistance, whatever. I have tried to do it alone and it isn't working. It will cost my town more to give me the senior break than if they left my assessment alone.
Don't try and be a good citizen and not apply for help.

How many millions of us are in the same boat? Our lives have, for countless reasons, gone down the drain. If I get sick, I will not resort to anything other than take a few pills that I can hopefully afford. I will not risk everything just to pay for medical care at my ripe old age. I just hope that whatever gets me in the end is something over which I will have some control. My kids know my wishes and will follow them. I live in fear that the end will bring me something horrible like Alzheimer's. I would then not be able to control my plight. That worries me. I do not want to keep a Nursing Home in business.

Wrong attitude? Maybe. The truth is, I am tired of it all. Working hard all your life, hoping the decisions you made along the way were the correct ones didn't work for my husband or for me.
I will not let the powers-that-be take it all because I can't go it alone.

The bumps and potholes have turned into sinkholes for a lot of us.

[earcandle]

93. I think one answer is to get the family back together. Let the kids back home to manage things.

Let Grandma babysit and pass on her wisdom.  Stay away from
pharmaceuticals and fake food so you don't get Alzheimer's and
can be fully present until that dying breath.  This is sad,
your story and it probably is happening all over and we all
think we have to rely on ourselves or the government to help
us.  The government should help, but in ways that heal and
help the family to make it.  


Probably what I am saying is shocking and you may think the
kids are programmed to be terrified of having to take care  of
you because they think some senior citizen home will do it and
that is the way it is.  Sad way to leave.  But I heard Newt
Gingrich and Kerry and lots of others (but the span of the
politic) talking about how they are not going to invest in
these senior citizen homes anymore.  They are going to offer
incentives for children to keep their parents home until they
die.  We should be hearing some propaganda soon about that and
I am thinking this is a good turn.  If the media starts to
project that it is warm and fuzzy and loving to keep your
parents at home and the government will fund you to do so,
then the family as a unit can regain its natural place again. 


I am 59.  I don't want to be in an institution ever.  The
woman across the hall is 70.  She has meals on wheels bring
her food.   I am probably still going to be in business at 70,
maybe even 75.  That is another thing.  Even if you cannot
work, learn some new technology that you can do at home and
make an effort to earn money that way to help out.  It keeps
your brain strong and adds some creativity to your daily
routine.  And some excitement.  It is fun to have a website
you keep improving on and maybe you can share some of your
wisdom through that venue.  Its fun to watch how many hits you
get.  Keep your mind sharp.  And do your yoga stretches.  And
get a rocking chair to keep your pelvis strong so your hips
don't go out, or find a lover (that is even better!).

Good luck, and be open to changes, positive changes.  Don't
let this economy and these rich greedy bastards get you down. 

BTW< if your kids don't want to live with you, rent some
rooms in your house to some college students who will clean
and run errands and do various chores in exchange for
discounted rents.  Find a lonely forties something live-in who
will appreciate a nice home and a friendly patron who will
give her a room in exchange for housekeeping, and cooking and
errands.  Put your property to use.  Learn how to trust others
again and share what little wealth you have and make it work
for you.

Good luck.

[quabbin]

112. Real Estate Tax increase

I don't know what state you live in but you may have recourse regarding the large tax increase. I live in MA. Three years ago my town went nuts on real estate tax increases as the home prices were plunging. In MA we have a quasi-legal body called the Appellate Tax Board where homeowners can contest unreasonable tax increases. It took a little time to prepare my case but it wasn't a big deal. The state even publishes a guide on how to file an appeal without hiring a lawyer. I had the assessed value of my home reduced by over $50K. I also assisted an elderly friend of mine in appealing a huge real estate tax increase. We were able to get his assessment reduced by $90K. You should look into whether your state has a similar entity where homeowners can appeal unjustifiable tax increases.

[Paper Roses]

121. Guess what, I'm also in the good old Bay State! Essex County.

I'm starting to gather info for my town appeal and will go higher than that if necessary. A local RE broker is helping me find the info I need for an appeal. It is not possible to find the stuff I have to provide without some help by someone in the know. In reviewing what info I could find...and this maddens me, most of the rises in valuation are for the houses in my very modest range. The McMansions did not do badly at all.

Same-old, same-old.

[quabbin]

123. Good old Bay State

The first thing you should do is go to the MA Appellate Tax Board website and read the guide titled "Understanding Real Estate Tax Appeals at the Appellate Tax Board" You can download and print it or read it online. It will tell you everything you need to know about preparing an appeal. Hearings are held in two categories: informal and formal. Most homeowners file for an informal hearing. The guide explains in great detail how to prepare. Do not be intimidated by this process. Take time and prepare per the guides instructions. You will be treated fairly at the ATB. It was a very positive experience. My hearing and my friend's hearing just happened to be adjudicated by the Chairman of the whole organization. The guy was a pleasure to deal with. My town's assessors embarrassed themselves at the hearing. If you know they are over assessing your property and you prepare per the guide, your odds of getting an equitable adjustment are very good. Ask me anything about the process and I will respond.

[Grinchie]

130. You are right on the money Quabbin

It's not so hard to make the County agencies look foolish, and all it takes is gathering the evidence, which is readily available for free.

They rely on people to just be lazy, tired or too ignorant to think they can challenge what is in reality and arbitrary increase which is not really based in fact, but on an average pulled out of their asses. The increase is just enough to escape most peoples radar so they go along with it, without really putting much thought into it.

[Grinchie]

129. Be Proactive. Physically travel to the Tax Office and investigate Appealing the rise.

The assesment may never go down, but you can appeal your taxes by obtaining Comps on nearby properties. It works, you get to talk to the people in the tax office and you get to learn about the county government.

Do not do what the majority does and just bend over and take it. You need to appeal, and learn what it take to win the appeals process. The more they see people rise up in opposition to rising assessment, the more they will have to report to their masters who directed them to do it. Remember that services provided by the county depends on Taxes, but if they do not provide adequate services, then you can appeal.

I am of the opinion that Everyone must learn what our tax dollar does, where it goes, and see if it is based upon reality. Do some math and get an estimate of whet you think the local tax revenue is, and see if the assessment are based on fact, and not on some big Corporate Tax Break to a big box like WalMart.

[quabbin]

138. Good advice Grinchie

You are right about most people bending over and taking unjustifiable real estate tax increases in these times. To over assess real estate values in a seriously declining market is perverse. I decided I wasn't going to take it anymore. I started the process with an appeal for abatement with my Board of Assessors. They issued me an abatement of less than one dollar, yes less than one dollar. That later came back to haunt them because I submitted that abatement slip as an exhibit at the hearing. It was obvious evidence of their arrogance and failure to deal with me in good faith. Nobody in my town had ever forced the Board of Assessors to appear before the Appellate Tax Board. None of the current board members had ever testified before the ATB. They were almost incredulous that a resident would go to the mat with them. I dragged them to a hearing before the ATB in Boston (130 mile round trip for all involved) and made them look like fools. I prepared diligently for the hearing using the state published guide. I am not a lawyer but I admit I watched too many Perry Mason episodes as a kid. Because I was armed to the teeth with evidence supporting my case, once I got over the initial butterflies at the start of the hearing I began to relish the experience. I managed to inject humor into my testimony as I picked the assessors apart. The hearing officer obviously respected the effort I put into my testimony because two weeks later I was granted a very generous decision in my favor. There is a rather remarkable side story to my experience. Many cities and towns in the northeast have recently contracted with a certain real estate appraisal software firm based in MA. Said software firm's stated corporate mission is to assist cities and towns with the important task of "equalizing property values" in order to increase tax revenues. I would be willing to bet that my fellow DU member Paper Roses is now living in a MA town that has contracted with this firm. Using real estate appraisal software tailored to equalize property values is in direct conflict with MA General Laws that require assessors to accurately assess real and personal property. My town contracted with this company several years ago. That is when the problem began here. At the time the town contracted with this company one of the sitting members of the Board of Assessors was a full time employee of said real estate appraisal software company. This was a serious conflict of interest. Somebody in town dropped a dime to the MA Attorney Generals Office and the assessor immediately resigned. I hope Paper Roses pursues fair treatment all the way to the MA ATB. People have to stop rolling over and taking it.

[earcandle]

147. Yes, Yes and more yes!

[HughBeaumont]

143. What I'm being told now is that our generation (X) is likely to never retire.

It's either being explained to us in two ways. The first way is flat-out honesty: we'll likely never be able to save the money needed because our wages will likely never match our cost needs. The second way is even more odious: that retirement is "overrated" and an "active lifestyle is needed to combat the depression and medical issues that come with old age" and "our minds need to stay fresh". In other words, the "positive thinking" fluff they've been trying to foist on us while they stagnate our salaries and fire us en masse.

What it all boils down to for us is that by the time we're supposed to be saving and investing money, no one ever told us that the very act of making a living will likely drain you of all that extra cash. You know, unless you live in a cramped hovel and live on Kraft Mac and Cheese for 20 years. By the time we're supposed to amass a decent sum of money, none of us have a dime. And it's all . . . "our fault".

That's why these financial self-help books gall me to no end, but somehow they still sell; the plans they have drawn up usually depend on the right circumstances. There can never be layoffs. There can never be triple digit emergencies or repairs at the start of the savings. There can never be a major illness. You have to buy the right house. You have to live on the extreme cheap. You must get a 8-11% return each and every year without fail. You must put away at least 100 to 200 dollars away every month and compound it.

We've been sold a moldy bill of goods.

The Boomers were allowed to retire, but as they've seen, it's not at all comfortable. Many are postponing retirement and still working because their bills and medical expenses are too high and their wages haven't matched the skyrocketing cost of living. That's why it only applied to those who . . . had no landmines. It appears that having no landmines is becoming a lottery in itself.

I think the WWII generation was the last generation that was allowed to retire comfortably, and the reason for that is that they were the last generation which had a reasonable cost of living with a wage to match. They were the last to have a reasonable tax structure to assure a boring, smooth economic flow of consumption and production rather than the boom, BUBBLE, CRASH casino economics we've been nailed with. They weren't, for the most part, affected by Asia or Europe, because they were either in a state of rebuilding or still backwater third-worlds with no modernization. They had pensions and benefits guaranteed, whereas now the corporate leaders shifted all responsibility for our investments and medical needs on us.

Unless we do something to reign in corporate irresponsibility, we'll probably never see what our fathers and grandfathers got to see. I'm dreadfully afraid that we're going to have a glut of educated young people working lousy jobs or living at home for a long time because they'll never make it out of the starting gate.

[earcandle]

148. It is that way already.

it is hard for kids to make it out of the gate anymore. 

[NikolaC]

74. K&R

Great post. I think that in today's job market you need to do all kinds of contortionist moves in an interview in order to even be considered for a position, that is if you even get as far as an interview. You have to be young, attractive, have years of experience, great credit, a spotless background and a major degree in order to be considered for a position. Also, if you are considering a retail position, some places won't even speak to you unless you are young and can pass their 52 question personality evaluations because a personality test can tell them what a person actually doing the job cannot :eyes:. They have come up with so many ways to weed out those of us who are older, without degrees (even though we have years of experience in various fields), considered to be unattractive, have less than stellar credit, etc. that it is next to impossible to find, or even have someone seriously consider you for, a job lately. Yet, I still send out a bunch of resumes and contact recruiters hoping, in vain, for a break. It's been very discouraging and I know others who are in the same boat.

[PassingFair]

79. Good Post! Reminds me of this Bob Marley song: One Drop

"They made the world so hard"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74NCfS3h2JY&feature=related

[NC_Nurse]

80. Unless you're a Republican. Then you can escape every bad move and lie, cheat

and steal your way to the top. Your rich family will use their connections to get you out of jail as a youth and scrub your record. You can use your family money
to buy your way into all of the "right" power circles, and they will help you cover up all of your infidelities, schemes and scandals. When you get caught you will merely
pull out the Jeebus "get out of jail free" card and be immediately forgiven. :puke:

It's the rest of us that are fucked.

[myrna minx]

81. K&R. I was just talking about this very same subject with a friend last night.

You said it far better than I. :applause:

[Geek_Girl]

83. Everything you say is true But now even if you do everything perfectly you are still screwed

I was told growing up that the Technology jobs was were the jobs of the future. So I busted my ass to get one. 10 Years I've been working in the IT field only to see wages decline and jobs being out sourced. I still do better than most people I know but I'm not at the standard of living my father was at back in the 80's and he was a salesman with a GED.

[HughBeaumont]

95. This journal entry talks about that a little . . .

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/HughBeaumont/92

. . . and also on the Republican screed about how we apparently all need to be fortune tellers or it's (ready?) . . . our fault. Like Kitty said above, if I hear the phrase "should have done my homework" again . . . :mad:

I think all of us are in the same boat when it comes to earning more than our parents. My dad earned way more than I did at the same age. I think those days are over; you cannot have an engine of growth and stability with an overwhelming amount of wealth concentrated at the top of the food chain and no means of distributing it. Obama should have rolled back the Bewsh tax cuts for the rich right off rather than wait for them to expire. Of course, it wouldn't have been "politically courteous" to do that during a recession :eyes:

I see there are some laissez-failures unreccing this as I type. Figures.

[randr]

84. Excellent post and comments!

My two cents:
Is it at all apparent to anyone how this discussion skates around the greatest conflict of human society over the last century? The battle between Communism/Socialism and Democracy/Capitalism.
I think a reviewing of Orwells "Animal Farm" would be in order.
The human condition we are trying to wrap our minds around has often been, appropriately, called the "rat race".
The battle between the "haves" and the "have nots" is conflicted by all our desires to be one of the "haves".
Human individual worth and compassion for those in need go out the door as the carrot gets brighter and harder to grab a hold of.
One truism comes to mind: Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.
No one would deny that the achievement of the "american dream" is not empowering. Yet, how often do we deny the the basic truths and wisdom we have collected over generations.
In my own reality I would consider myself as "lucky". Aways the misfit, the need for social acceptance was not important. My artistic nature allowed me to live in my own world of ideas and this in turn attracted me to others of same mind and they to me. I am not without friendship. The achievements of self discovery and the closeness of family and friends is by far a more fulfilling than any "american dream" of prosperity.

[Stumbler]

86. Very well written. Thanks

[asthmaticeog]

87. Wow, I'm away from DU for awhile and I come back and see this. Dead fucking ON.

Glad you're still here, Hugh, you walk righteous. I hope all's been well with you. :thumbsup:

[HughBeaumont]

96. OG!

Great to see you again. You gave me a lot of bands to listen to in that there paper this week. I have two issues to go through tonight on the MySpace.

[asthmaticeog]

107. Shoulda gone to the Beachland last night.

10 of the 12 bands from the list played. I counted exactly two that sucked.

Great to see you again too.

[ananda]

89. Sociopathic greed and soul-selling.

That's what drives this mean spirited social darwinism
these days.

[Nikia]

90. My mother thinks like this

Especially when it comes to my sister and I. I have suffered from this standard imposed on myself for my whole life. It is only now that I am over 30 that I think that perfection is over rated.

[Hidden Stillness]

99. I Blame It on the Corporate-Controlled Pseudo-"Self-Help/Therapy" Movement, etc.

"We can never insure one hundred percent of the population against one hundred percent of the hazards and vicissitudes of life, but we have tried to frame a law which will give some measure of protection to the average citizen and to his family against the loss of a job and against poverty-ridden old age.
"This law, too, represents a cornerstone in a structure which is being built but is by no means complete."
Franklin Roosevelt, 1935, upon signing the Social Security Act

Ignoring the sexist, old-fashioned way of wording it as male-only, I think of this quote as the sum-total difference between the way my (New Deal/WWII) parents thought of life, and the high-pressure, you-can-only-lose, life-is-a-competition propaganda of today's corporate pseudo-"culture."

I noticed some years ago how angry and resentful I was, how pressured and judged I felt, and I tried to pin down where it was coming from, because it was not from anyone in my real life. It was easy, of course, to trace it to the increasingly belligerent corporate media, advertising, and general corporate behavior. Women are made to feel ugly, hated "because" they are "ugly," and exploited if they "work on" NOT being "ugly." It is a no-win. There have been comments on this thread about the presentation of a society where no one helps you anymore, you have to "learn" all about your insurance, investments, health care, on and on, with all those forces against you and trying to take everything away from you. You have to be happy all the time, or you are attacked for not smiling, (when it is not even natural, but it IS just like an under-pressure corporate servant). "Sex" is presented on the media as dirty and vulgar, yet you are supposed to pretend, as a woman, that you are just aching for this crap, which is not like real women's sexuality at all.

The more things are individualized, "personalized," made "psychological" or "therepeutic," the more you are driven away from truly analyzing it as a collective, social, political oppression by increasing corporate takeover and consolidation. No, it is "your fault" because you will just not "get with it" and have all the commercial-product-buying "fun" that "everyone else" is having. It is brutal, merciless, you are a "burden" if you do not get back on the assembly line and work to bring in those profits for your corporate master. No compassion for the "lessers," because that costs money. It is actually demonic. The evil message is: you can never "improve" yourself enough; you are always wrong and at fault. Only you are ever judged, not the oppressor.

Life is full of terrible events that can happen to you, and we all need help--organized, Governmental help sometimes. They used to know that until the corporate takeover of propaganda. Get rid of these pricks and return to our true society and beliefs.

[Odin2005]

109. Great post and I agree!

I know people will attack me for it, but this is exactly why the philosophical notion of "Free Will" is complete BS. We are completely "caused" beings, our behavior is the product of our genes and out society, not some "soul" that makes choices outside causality. because of this IMO "bootstraps" rhetoric is nothing less then socio-genetic bigotry, scientific Neo-Calivinism.

As someone with a genetic neurological condition (Asperger's Syndrome, AKA High-Functioning Autism) I know all too well what BS the "if you put your mind to it and try you can do anything and get anywhere" nonsense is and how annoyed I get when people tell me my problems are "all in my head", or are "an excuse". I will never be able to drive a car, I will never be able to make myself into the sociable extrovert you seem to need to be to get anywhere now days, I will never have an intuitive understanding of office politics BS.

[Hidden Stillness]

137. Phobias, Asperger's, etc., are Key Here; Society Will Not Be Healthy Until Introverts are Safe

(I wanted to wait a little while before answering your message, to think about it.)

I am also an introvert who gets unpleasantly anxious at social situations, and only recently feel that I got one more puzzle piece toward solving the whole thing--and why I have made so little progress on some of this--several weeks ago on C-SPAN's "In Depth" with the author Temple Grandin describing Asperger's specifically. I related to much of it, including the descriptions of the introverted personality that so often turns away from people, and inward, to think about a subject alone, rather than socializing, etc., and think this might be what I also am; I would like to understand it better. I don't know if this kind of emotional disturbance is increasing, but I know that the increasingly coarse, jeering, cold, violent, loud, pushy, visually flashing, anti-intellectual media "culture" that plagues us, is inflaming and tormenting anyone and everyone who does have any kind of sensitivity on these lines. I think our current "society" is horrible for any kind of introvert or thoughtful, sensitive person.

I have noticed some of your posts before--you defend and care about animal rights, you have fought for women and gays against bigotry, and for rape victims; many very impressive messages. I think if you have suffered from Asperger's, with all that that might mean, that one bright spot (as I also think of myself and my own introversion) is that your suffering has helped to give you compassion. It isn't good to suffer, but since we do suffer and you can't get rid of it all, the only hope for the future is that you transform it to the good in you, and you become the good of it. This way also, you can accept and not want to change, the things that you are. You don't need to "become somebody else" if you can make good the qualities already in you, and find a way of successfully fitting in the world. I agree with your sense of anger at being forced to try to "change" when you can't, and at people stupidly calling it "not trying," "faking it," etc. I think all these things are sins; it is a sin not to accept us all as we really are, and to know what not to change. As the Eastern Orthodox attitude has it more clearly than the West, "There is room for everyone at the table," meaning we all belong.

I think society has to learn that there cannot be one standard that we all have to fit, as most people will only be hurt--ripped apart--by that, and can't do it anyway. We cannot be the "general" "normal," but we each can be our best, most fulfilled, developed, selves. This horrible corporate standard--that we have to be what they decide or we have "failed" and "lost," and that if we are not happy or are not fitting, that we are just annoying nuisances, because we are not neat little corporate cogs just working and working and shutting up.

I believe we do have souls, but not as a contradiction of our mortal, part-of-causation life, not as a contradiction of proof or logic, but as the way we will be in the Next Life, the Next Place. The truth of God will not oppose or contradict you, but will develop you as you are--you are supposed to be this way, but it is supposed to turn out right, and be happy and constructive. We can only improve and be better as the true nature that we each are, and according to each one's own real ways--not with an alien personality's command to conform, forced on it. There must be a world where each one is welcomed and accepted, each one, one by one, known and revealed personally; where there will be no fear. That will be the truth. Until then, this society will never be healthy until it takes account of the inner nature of humans/animals, and builds social structures around that, not the current trying from without to force everyone into one "personality type"; that only makes you "crazy" with stress.

[Odin2005]

139. Thank you!

:hi:

Our society is disgustingly biased against introverts. I need time alone if I want to think and be productive, but if I do that I get attacked for "not being a team player" (the latest corporate psychobable). We introverts get punished in school and college because we don't do well in group projects and so we get a bad "participation" grade.

BTW, I don't "suffer" from Asperger's, I consider it a gift. I am so very open and free from many common prejudices exactly because of my issues with social interaction. My sensory sensitivities are both a blessing and a curse. I can visualize things more easily than most people, and I have an almost photographic memory. And I have borderline savant-like arithmetic abilities (something that runs on my mom's side).

[HughBeaumont]

116. "Positive Thinking" has done so much damage.

At the crux of it all is the conservative standard of victim-blaming. To them, there's never the factors of bad luck or plain and simple poor economic climate. Conservatives think you should be a success in ANY weather. Don't get me started on crap like "The Secret" or any book written by Joel Osteen or Robert Kiyosaki.

[Grinchie]

134. Actually, I liked Rich Dad, Poor Dad

Simply because it explain Assets vs Liabilities in such a way that almost anyone can understand it.

I don't follw Kiyosaki when it comes to ammassing ever growing piles of money however, simply because that would force me into the Social Control structure mandated by Government and the IRS in order to extract our wealth for reasons that I do not agree with, like for two wars on foreign soils, Corporate handouts, an overbloated yet ineffective Military machine, and a foreign policy that makes no sense to me.

The fact that there is no accountability anymore also has a big part in it also.

[Grinchie]

131. Bingo -- It is the simple truth's that are hidden from us

The first step is to acknowledge that this attitude and Social environment is REAL. The next step is to either live within it, or find a way to extricate yourself from the mess.

I did the latter and I've never looked back.

I used to feel like I didn't have enough power to change the Social Dogma imposed upon us, but I no longer feel that way. I am doing what I can, and I stay withing my ethical boundaries by not supported the social demands that are everywhere. I have become happy that my individual decision to avoid consumerism and stop feeding the Corporate machine does make a difference.

Whether it does of not does not matter to me anymore, simply because I am responsible for my life, and it is beautiful and wonderous.

I have the ability to change my world into either a Garden of Eden or a Desert. I choose the former.

[crim son]

105. I wasn't prepared to agree so energetically.

Well said, sir.

[Grinchie]

106. You define the Social Structure thatis imposed upon us perfectly.

Although, you do sound rather pessimistic.

I agrre with all of your points, and I have been a victim of this corrupted system of false values, but I have escaped into the so called "Bum" world, and I might as well be in Heaven.. That is, until I have to interact with the people in the "Successful" world.

You see, the people in the Successful world are extremely Unhappy. They see people like us, that have learned to produce nearly everything for ourselves, who are happy with the same hand tool that they've used for the past 40 years, and who avoid jumping like a duck on a june bug on every new device, widget or doodad that claims to make our lives easier. They are marveled and and the same time frightened that acknowledging that providing for ones own needs takes work. They see it as taking Money, which is a false substitution for ones own labor.

The social structure is corrupted for the benefit of keeping people powerless, and if all people know about is Money, then it is easy to take their power away by making it disappear.

It is the growing masses of people like me that are not subserviant to money, but are actually able to utilize it as a tool well necessary. When one learns to deal with money in this way, spending money becomes a rare event. We all have to by fuel sometimes.. I am amazed how little money I spend, but it's only because I am happy with the ability to relearn old skills, like swinging a machete instead of gearing up with a Weedeater. The benefits are better health, less noise, no fuel costs, no maintenance costs, no repair costs, cleaner clothes without exhaust fumes, no nerve damage from unnatural vibrations, no pull starting, no string replacement, no tools...

It can be quite amazing when one discards the propaganda and actually tries the old ways instead of believing how awful life was before mas production of machinery that breaks all the time.

It's nice to see Original Posts like the one I am responding to showing that the people are finally waking up and shaking off the blinders they've been wearing since birth. The only way to true power IS LIBERAL ARTS. One must be a polymath to be able to provided for ones family with the labor of his own two hands, and to maintain a decent lifestyle that allows for all the modern necessities we take for granted, while at the same time, off the grid. Try it sometime.. You'll see that we must be navigators, astronomers, Farmers, Mathematicians, Surveyors, waste management specialists, Hydrologists, Chemists, and electricians. That's what I do now, and everywhere I go, I see rules and regulations that tell me that I'm not qualified. Hah hah haa.

Well, in that case, I do hire the so called expert, but I've already done the work before he even gets there, so I get someone to check my work. It's better than going to school, and costs less.

Everyone must learn how to read books... Lots of them.

[jotsy]

119. If the wealth of a nation depends on the viability of its public

and said viability is deliberately placed out of reach by a PTB collectively engaged in collusion designed to enslave, the message is clear enough to me. The nation in their eyes is as expendable as we are. How well we as an American people as part of a planetary public can prove we are not as Pavlovian as they presume, that there is a point to the promise and the principle of self governance.

:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:

Really Well Said

I want a pair of the kind of glasses you wear, because you see very clearly!

[butterfly77]

120. Kick &Recommended!

[JackDragna]

140. One of the best comments I've seen here on the ugly side of the U.S.

eom

[BreweryYardRat]

145. Satire that's so on the mark it hurts.

The USA is not supposed to be like this, dammit!