Should people be allowed to use food stamps to buy alcohol?

[LoZoccolo]

[Truth2Tell]

1. How about pot? It's a plant.

:shrug:

[Posteritatis]

2. Of course not. Everyone knows the state should force asceticism on the poor.

Gotta love the micromanagement craze lately.

[Freddie Stubbs]

143. Those on food stamps are free to spend their own money on alcohol

[rd_kent]

3. Butter and salt anyone?

:popcorn:

[Posteritatis]

4. None of those either! They're too poor for flavor! (nt)

[Hello_Kitty]

5. Alcohol isn't food.

Yes, I know it has calories but it still isn't food.

[CTyankee]

16. Ask an Italian, a Frenchman, a Greek, a Spaniard, etc about this question.

you will get an earful!Wine is as essential to their diet as olive oil and fish from the sea. And vegetables from the garden and fruit from the groves...you are kidding yourself if they don't...

I wish Americans could get wise to the responsible use of alcohol in wine the way Europeans do...but alas...

[seabeyond]

21. europeans dont have alcoholics?

a lot of americans are responsible with booze. and some become alcoholics. pretty damn sure works the same way in europe

[Thothmes]

25. Russians are Europeans, at least west of the Urals

they have a lot of alcoholics.

[jmowreader]

36. I think living in a coldish climate has something to do with it

If you look at where in Europe the serious lushes live, you'll see most of them live in Germany, Poland and Russia--what we used to call the "ATTU" (Atlantic to the Urals) region. Among other pertinent features, it's colder than a welldigger's ass there. The Europeans who live in France and along the Mediterranean, where it's not as cold, don't have a huge alcoholism problem.

(Oh, and we simply can't neglect the decades of really shitty government the northern Europeans had to endure. Face it: if you had to put up with Siberian winters AND the Communist Party, you'd be an alcoholic too.)

Fun fact: the brake fluid originally issued for the MiG-29 fighter was undenatured ethanol. The troops figured this out.

[CTyankee]

26. The northern Europeans seem to, but the southern ones do not or at least as much.

I am familiar with the French, Italian, Spanish and Portuguese. They know and accept wine as part of their cuisine. I have not seen any of them drunk.

The northern Europeans and great britain seem to have a problem, don't know why.

[seabeyond]

37. not true. france and the u.s. top the list on alcoholics

nothern italy high in alcoholism, lower in southern italy. google. lots and lots of articles if you want to verify. this is just the first of many. in so many things on du i hear such admiration for europe yet when doing the research i am never quite as impressed as what duers have told me. so i have started checking it out instead of assuming duer is correct on perception of europe

http://www.enotalone.com/article/5540.html


Comparisons between countries in per capita incidence of alcoholism suffer to an even larger extent from all the research difficulties presented earlier in this chapter. Definitions, methods, samples, and survey objectives differ so widely that one despairs of any valid rankings. International figures and comparisons are difficult at best (Heizer and Canino, 1992). The United States and France top all lists, followed, usually in varied order, by Chile, England-Wales, Ireland, some Sandinavian countries, Canada, and Australia. It is a mistake to lump all of Italy together; rates among wine-drinking southern Italians have traditionally been reported as low, whereas industrialized northern Italy shows high rates now. The Irish in America have a higher incidence than the Irish in Ireland. Russia and Poland have very high rates; it was difficult to get accurate figures from behind the Iron Curtain, but the Kremlin's strong crackdown on alcohol in 1985 did reveal a widespread and severe problem. There has been a sharp rise in alcoholism in Japan in the last decade or so, especially in Tokyo. China has more than a billion people scattered over a vast area: to generalize about the Chinese seems vapid, as there must be wide differences in their use of and reaction to alcohol. Whereas the problems may be leveling off in some industrialized nations, the World Health Organization (WHO) says they are increasing in the developing countries.

[CTyankee]

103. It makes some sense that the more industrialized northern Italy would

engnender more dependence on alcohol than in the south. And overall, yes, I would say that Italians, French, Spanish drink more than Americans. They tend to drink wine and certain aperitifs and digestivi on a daily basis more than Americans do. When I travel there I do not have a desire to sit in cafes and sip an alcoholic drink but they do (and I sure as hell cannot stomach Grappa!). Frankly, I don't know how they do it. Is that alcoholism? I've never seen them "binge drink" the way I have seen Americans do. But certainly if you are imbibing, even small amounts, over the course of a day (and not eating dinner where typically wine is drunk til 10 pm which is often done in Spain) it would add up to "drinking more." I can see that.

But overall I think you have to say these Europeans have a far better attitude about alcohol use than we Americans do.

[seabeyond]

104. having a line of alcoholics in my family, i really believe it is in genetics.

hence why i didnt buy, europe would be any better. because it is about being human, body type, physical to me. and since i have watched alcoholism kill this line of my family, i have always had a really messed up view of alcohol. i understand that. i tell my husband, when it comes to kids drinking, he can deal with it, cause i probably will not do a good and rational job in parenting. i can handle the drugs, pot, but not the booze.

my husband drinks every day and in the 16 yrs i have seen him drunk a handful of times, like 4, 5 times. almost always, i see no effect of it at all. that, i can appreciate. we ask (he and i) if that makes him an alcoholic and we decide no. he went for in 40 wellness check and talked to doctor about it and doctor concluded not even. i dont know how they gauge, but i know alcoholism when i see it

i do like european attitude of moderation and attitude on booze and that is another concern i have for my kids. i do see the benefit of kids sipping wine (water down for the younger kids) from early years. i do believe that is helpful and would help u.s. what we condition our teenagers to do with booze is very unhealthy and very destructive.

[CTyankee]

107. I have a bunch of drunks in my family too and it killed my brother, my uncle and one cousin.

I am Anglo-Saxon, Welsh and Scottish and those groups certainly rank higher in the alcohol abuser groups.

What I have noticed about drinking in Italy...when I go to family restaurants everybody is sitting down around a big table, whole generations, and wine is shared with the meal. Papa or Mama or maybe nonno or nonna take the babies around the room and it is expected that you comment ("che bella" or "che carino"). After dinner, the family gets up for "passagiata" an evening walk in the neighborhood, meeting and greeting neighbors and friends. I would bet, altho I don't know, that such leisurely walks are more common in small towns than say, Milan, where things move at a faster rate. But I have also seen a pretty relaxed crowd in Turin with its charming chocolate shops and folks there love to loll around eating or drinking that lovely chocolate that is their speciality. I guess you would say it is an art of living.

I also don't see obese people there...maybe a few who are in their late sixties, getting a little heavy around the mid section...but then I often wonder if they are "tedeschi" (germans)...

[seabeyond]

108. ha, that line i am talking about. pure irish and scottish, lol

your story sounds so lovely, it makes me want to take a trip. lol. damn, and i said no to flying, lol. maybe by the time hubby and i would get around to it, something will give at the airports and prison environment.

thanks

[CTyankee]

110. I have a bucket list of places I want to go to or back to! I'm not getting any younger.

I have a follow up trip to Florence in September that I've promised myself. It will be in depth Renaissance art stuff. How is it that American tourists just go in to see the David at the Accademia and a couple of Botticellis at the Uffizi and they're done!!! Geez, three centuries of incredible art and architecture and Americans go to two places????

I have 3 more European capitals I must visit: Prague, Budapest and Vienna. Such beauty...

As you can probably tell, I absolutely love European cities and esp. capitals. Altho I will say Sicily was one of the most beautiful and exceptional places in Europe, IMO. And lots of that was in the country and the Madoni mountains...just beautiful...Mt. Etna, Taormina...go if you can!!!

[seabeyond]

112. i am going to email you if and when i ever decide on a trip to europe, lol lol

you HAVE to make these trips. the love that you have for this is so powerful, you convey in your posts so well.... lol, you just have to go.

good for you.

[CTyankee]

119. Anytime! But I am no expert. However, I can recommend what I think is great.

It's a lot of fun planning a trip...there were six of us "ladies of a certain age" that went to Portugal last fall...we called ourselves "Six Broads Abroad" and we had a fabulous time! Three in the group were widows who knew the value of living each day to its fullest because you never know...

[blueamy66]

115. Have to disagree about genetics...

although it may be something....but not the only reason.

How do you explain a family of four....2 kids...ADOPTED....Dad's an alcoholic and the 2 adopted kids are alcoholics. No genetics there.

I believe it's more nuture than nature.

[seabeyond]

118. i would never suggest alcoholism is all and only about genetics.

no way, no how.

nurture is absolutley a factor.

[Libertas1776]

73. Oh I beg to differ

I share many of those nationalities and I have come across many who were "career" drunks or alcohol abusers.

[kevinbgoode]

67. I thought a mild amount of alcohol helps prevent heart attacks

and has other medicinal purposes. . .

[jbnow]

125. But even moderate drinking ups cancer risk for women

http://topnews.us/content/23936-moderate-drinking-increases-woman-s-cancer-risk

Women even with the moderate amount of one drink a day stand a 12 % higher risk of developing breast cancer and 22% higher risk of cancer of the larynx. The researchers further added that the risk doubled for each type of cancer for each additional drink up to a maximum of three a day.
snip
The study published in the Journal of the National Cancer Institute had data from the Million Women Study, which examined more than a million middle-aged women to find out how the amount of alcohol they drank related to their risk of getting different types of cancer.
snip
Women who regularly drank the equivalent of 1 unit a day were seen to have an increased risk of getting seven types of cancer: breast, liver, rectum (part of the bowel), mouth, pharynx (a space at the back of the mouth), oesophagus (the tube that takes food from the mouth to the stomach) and larynx (voicebox) as compared to women who drank only 1 or 2 units of alcohol a week.

and ups risk of breast cancer return
http://www.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/12/10/drinking.breast.cancer.recurrence/index.html

Breast cancer survivors who have just a few alcoholic drinks per week are more likely than women who drink little or no alcohol to see their breast cancer return, according to research presented today at an annual meeting of breast cancer specialists.

The study, which followed about 1,900 early-stage breast cancer survivors for eight years, found that women who consumed an average of at least three to four alcoholic drinks in a week had a 34 percent higher risk of breast cancer recurrence. (One drink equals a 5-ounce glass of wine, a 12-ounce beer, or a 1.5-ounce shot of liquor.)

The increased risk was more pronounced among breast cancer survivors who had gone through menopause and those who were overweight or obese, the study found.

So there you go

[CTyankee]

131. Do these studies include European women?

I ask only because i know European women who consume more that what is cited as healthful in this study. You could take a cursory glance at the women in cafes and bars in France, Italy and Spain for instance and wonder if these women are instantly at higher risk for breast cancer. Do we have stats on this?

If the stats prove this to be true, OK. If not, then we have to say, what does this say about our own American lifestyles and habits...?

Just wondering...

[jbnow]

140. The first study was done at The University of Oxford and that was

the one that included over a million women. The United Kingdom isn't France, Italy, Spain of course but it's Europe.

This 2004 chart has the incidence rates of several countries
http://www.imaginis.com/breasthealth/statistics.asp
(A little hard to read as lines aren't even, have to go to number slightly lower than country name)
Italy 74.4
UK 87.2
France 91.9
US 101.1

Drinking obviously not the only factor.
If we had to guess at US rate I'd guess biggest thing would be if hormone replacement therapy was used more widely here. Breast cancer rates in postmenopausal women age 50-52 (or something , going on memory there) had caught up or exceeded breast cancer in 70+ which use to be largest group by far...and I bet that was hormone use too

I looked this up
http://www.lifetoolsforwomen.com/w/natural-hormones.htm

Women between the ages of 60 and 64 who had been taking synthetic hormones for five years or more had a 71% increased risk of developing breast cancer.

Estrogen is a big factor in female cancers. Wonder if Europeans have the same issue with pharmaceuticals in the water supply, including birth control pills.
They also ban some of the pesticides that we allow here and they accumulate in our fattu tissues.

The next difference I suspect is related to this
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12157671/

High levels of vitamin D translated to a 50 percent lower risk of breast cancer, one study found. Even modestly higher levels resulted in 10 percent less risk, which would translate to 20,000 fewer cases a year if it were true of all American women.

A second study, by Canadian researchers, found that women who spent time outdoors or got a lot of vitamin D from their diets or supplements — especially as teens — were 25 percent to 45 percent less likely to develop breast cancer than women with less of the nutrient.

I don't know that they are lower here or that we actually spend less time outdoors. Just guessing.

My last guess is Monsanto and their rBGH milk? It has been banned in Canada and Europe, in fact all industrialized nations except a couple who except it for food production, not for individual consumption. They banned it for many reasons including deceptive studies and health threats to cows and people. One of the concerns to health is the high amount of IGF-1 in their treated cows milk. That is a growth hormone children's bodies produce naturally as they grow but studies are clear that in adults it promotes the growth of cancer cells. It isn't destroyed by digestion (because of casein protecting it) and some of the IGF-1 is absorbed. Increased levels of IGF-1 in humans are linked to increased rates in breast cancer and prostate cancer.

So those are my guesses for the day.

And it makes me mad again how we are not protected here...heck we had to fight for years to even allow labeling of milk being r-gbh free because Monsanto fought so hard to prevent it while other countries protected their citizens from exposure...
and the pesticides and the chemicals in personal care companies that are banned there that we are not even warned about.
Maybe that is why they have lower rates. Their governments give a shit about health of their citizens.

[El Supremo]

Ammunition, baby!

[Hansel]

6. Should bankers who took TARP money? nt

[Warpy]

7. I'm not any other adult's judge or his nanny

People who have only food stamps and want to buy alcohol take a friend shopping, pay with food stamps, have the friend pay them back in cash, and then they buy their alcohol and cigarettes. This is silly.

I've also seen what untreated DTs are like. They are 50% fatal unless the person gets into a hospital very quickly. I've also seen alcoholic seizures. People who are addicted to alcohol need it, or they are quite likely to die. Why not keep them alive while we wait to see if they'll get into treatment?

I'm my brother's keeper only to a point. If he's hungry, I feed him. If he's cold, I check through the closet to see if there's something to warm him. If he's got a bad habit, that's his own problem, not mine.

[Posteritatis]

13. Your implication that someone buying alcohol with food stamps is an alcoholic is interesting... (nt)

[Warpy]

14. My "implication" is that there are people who need to

and that anyone who wants to will find a way.

[Truth2Tell]

17. I used to work at a 7-11 in a poorer part of town.

Any change of less than $1 from a food stamp purchase was returned with real money. So many people would buy some 20 cent item with a $1 food stamp and get 80 cents back. They would then repeat that four or five times and then use all the change to buy beer. My boss was OK with it so we let em do it.

[Warpy]

22. Right, that was another way to do it.

It's just silly to make them jump through hoops. Treat them like adults.

[SOS]

126. Here in NYC

There are plenty of retailers who will debit the card and give back 50% in cash.
This poll is idiotic.

[Bill McBlueState]

62. wow, so it was back when they were actually stamps

I'm glad they switched to cards; the stamps would have been a pain.

[blondeatlast]

59. Once again, you speak for me. None of my biz what they choose to do. nt

[Cali_Democrat]

8. Perhaps some red wine to go with beef.

I don't see anything wrong with that.

[Iggo]

9. YES.!!!!

[era veteran]

10. This post will cause trouble we visited before

[Electric Monk]

23. That's the only reason LoZo posts threads, if you hadn't noticed already

[Freddie Stubbs]

29. Debating issues = trouble?

:shrug:

[Iggo]

84. Come on. You know flamebait when you see it, don't ya? (n/t)

[Freddie Stubbs]

122. Flaimbait is against DU rules. Have you alerted the moderators?

:shrug:

[Iggo]

139. I enjoy it too much. (n/t)

[HopeHoops]

11. No - they should buy spicy hot V-8 and add alcohol they paid for some other way.

I thought that was well understood by now.

[tomm2thumbs]

12. a limited percent of it perhaps - 5% should cover the cheap stuff (yum)

why make people more miserable - a glass of wine can be healthy I hear

[seabeyond]

15. because my brother cant find a job, has two teenage boys to feed and is an alcoholic

all the money will go to booze (what happens with an alcoholic) and he will still be without food.

actually, this came up yesterday and i am wondering if in texas they can spend food stamps on booze and cigs.

[Fumesucker]

18. You're assuming that people should have food stamps in the first place..

Have you cleared that assumption with the office of the POTUS?

I don't recall hearing Obama speak of food stamps, you might be going off the reservation here..

[SoFlaJet]

19. Come on man

.

[Fumesucker]

20. Self delete, double post..

[TheWatcher]

24. Should you be allowed to Post your mindless drivel day after day?

[cherokeeprogressive]

27. Haven't you posted this before? n/t

[EFerrari]

28. Yes and coupons for free beer should come with these threads.

:)

[Odin2005]

30. Yes.

The state isn't a fucking nanny.

[FLDCVADem]

99. I agree, the state isn't a nanny

And I'm all for helping people with basic needs when they are unable to provide for themselves. But alcohol is NOT a basic need.

I do believe that people should be able to purchase toilet paper, toothpaste, etc with foodstamps, as those are basic needs. But alcohol? No way.

[proud2BlibKansan]

31. Hell no.

[pinniped]

32. Sure. I know of someone that sells his stamps and uses the proceeds for gambling.

..

[Brickbat]

33. Yes. Why not?

[seabeyond]

35. again i will say, cause i would like someone perspective who thinks, why not? not nanny state

i have a brother has two teenage sons. he is an alcoholic. he lost job, again... and cant find a replacement this time. we have all been financially taking care of him in so many ways for so many years. now it is like, go get food stamps.

we can't give him money to buy food, we have to buy it for him. he will take the money and spend it first on booze and cigs, then food. the kids will continue to be without food.

to me... that is a why not.

most people that are on food stamps are feeding children. i would rather restriction be made to take the temptation from the person so they have to get food in the house.... to feed the kids.

[Brickbat]

42. But why should other people be punished because your brother can't control himself?

I sympathize. I don't see why that should prevent others from buying alcohol.

[wuushew]

46. That is not a correct definition of punishment

Are conditional scholarships or awards "punishment"? No one is being deprived of that which they originally possessed.



Main Entry: pun·ish
Pronunciation: \ˈpə-nish\
Function: verb
Etymology: Middle English punisshen, from Anglo-French puniss-, stem of punir, from Latin punire, from poena penalty — more at pain
Date: 14th century
transitive verb
1 a : to impose a penalty on for a fault, offense, or violation b : to inflict a penalty for the commission of (an offense) in retribution or retaliation
2 a : to deal with roughly or harshly b : to inflict injury on : hurt
intransitive verb
: to inflict punishment
— pun·ish·abil·i·ty \ˌpə-nish-ə-ˈbi-lə-tē\ noun

— pun·ish·able \ˈpə-nish-ə-bəl\ adjective

— pun·ish·er noun

[EFerrari]

58. Yes, it is. It's pre-emptive punishment. Most people are not addicts.

And while I feel for seabeyond as the child of an alcoholic, addicts do not think the way she thinks they do. An addict will barter food stamps for booze if they want to. If the day promises no liquor, they will go back to bed.

There is no use trying to control them or in punishing most people pre-emptively in such a failed project.

[wuushew]

63. My issue is with the semantics not the alcohol per say

Better choice of words leads to better debate. Words have meanings. Why use "punishment" instead of a more stale but correct descriptor of what you perceive to be an unfair situation.

[Obamanaut]

72. What is 'per say'? nt

[EFerrari]

117. I myself am addicted to the idea that words have meanings.

:)

[seabeyond]

48. well, he is not the only one with this issue. it isnt a matter of control. have you

ever been around an alcoholic. do you understand and get the alcoholic. not an easy life to be sure.

it isnt something so magical as control

that being said, and without that being an excuse for him, just his reality. it is also a privilige to receive the opportunity to feed your kids. giving them food is not a punishment. personally, if i had to borrow money to put food in my pantry to feed my kids, i would not be putting booze on the list. but the things needed to feed the kids.

[Brickbat]

134. What if it's adults only?

[seabeyond]

136. adult can make the choice for themselves. but too many food stamps are feeding our children

and a rule cannot be implemented one way for one party, another way for another. ergo.... no booze

[FLDCVADem]

100. Because we should be providing basic needs

Do you consider alcohol to be a basic need?

[Brickbat]

135. Is milk?

Full fat or skim? Frosted Flakes or Grape Nuts? A birthday cake? Holiday-specific food?

[FLDCVADem]

137. Milk is nutritious

Alcohol is not.

Basic needs, not wants.

[eShirl]

34. You can buy the ingredients to make your own homemade wine, currently, with food stamps.

Yeast, sugar, fruit juice.
Minimal equipment is needed: empty 2-liter soda bottles, airlocks improvised from looped plastic tubing & masking tape (water in the bottom of the loop, air pressure bubbles carbon dioxide out but lets no air in).

[Maine-ah]

91. I wish I could rec a single post

:toast:

[ismnotwasm]

38. Ugh

What a question. My knee jerk reaction is to say 'yes', because of the generally shitty attitudes toward the poor. But alcohol is not food, so no.

I don't know what it's like today, but (waay) back in MY day there were several ways to convert your food stamps to cash. There were like, food stamp pimps that would pay you quite a bit less than the food stamps were worth. I still remember buying single candy bars because back then, you got change. You'd hit more than one store, and get enough change for a bottle of cheap booze.

There were always scams of one kind or the other that most working poor did NOT participate in. They worked, is what they did.

(We used to call the first of the month "Mother's day" because that's when the welfare checks would come in)

[Texasgal]

39. There is no option for

I don't CARE. ???

[Obamanaut]

40. You did a similar poll in October. Here's the link, you can compare

the results.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=6872010

[Donnachaidh]

44. similar? What is similar about soda and alcohol?

:eyes:

[Obamanaut]

45. Perhaps the similarity is whether/not food stamps should be used.

Ya think?

Edited to add - that's why the polls are merely similar, and not exactly the same.

[Cleita]

41. I usually don't respond to your posts, but this one requires a little

clarification of the purpose of food stamps. It was determined back when the program was initiated that setting aside a certain amount of welfare money for food stamps would insure that part of the welfare money was actually spent on food and not alcohol or other recreational substances.

[Dappleganger]

43. NO

[rantormusing]

47. I cook with beer once in awhile.

I see these kind of false outrage bulletins, and i wonder how much anger people have bolted up inside. Some are just desperate to find any excuse to micromanage another, that's why no one bats an eye at how much power employers have over our lives and information.


If we're going to give a person a monthly benefit for groceries, give them the money, and then get a life. What they spend it on is their business, and their problem if they misuse it. If they come up short because of circumstances, or alcohol then they will have to make up the shortfall on their own. It already happens, what's the point of another rule, another law that will most likely do more harm than good.

[seabeyond]

49. family members watch the children not being fed and once again is using their money

to provide. again. to feed the children. if it were just the adult, then go for it. but most people using food stamps have kids they are suppose to be feeding.

[rantormusing]

54. There are other avenues if that is the case.

"Hello child protective services or the equivalent. I hear some killdren aren't being fed. What...you'll send someone over, thank you."

I know a person who spends way too much on alcohol and other stuff, their kids are eating just fine.


Don't do it for the kids, this could be a great slogan.

[seabeyond]

55. you know someone on food stamps spending way too much on booze and other stuff

and the kids still eat fine? really.

well, to be honest, i dont know much about food stamps, but costs of food and booze going up as it has, i find it hard to believe that supplying habit is going to leave a lot of room for food.

[rantormusing]

56. Those are assumptions

You want to force people to do something based off what you assume will happen, or for the children, whichever works.

If you can't see what's wrong with that, shrug.

Food pantries, homeless shelters, friends, family, and neighbors, there are many ways to get food.

[seabeyond]

61. in theory i agree with you. but not with food stamps.

when someone asks for money and i am willing to give, i dont have any expectation where that money goes. the few times (more than few) i was asked for a cig i gave them moeny to buy a pack. it isnt an issue to stop people from being addicted. that really isnt my business. but i do see the food stamps differently

[RobinA]

64. It's Not

Food stamps alone will barely feed the kids, let alone allow for extra expenditures like alcohol. Hell, here in PA you can't even buy cleaning supplies with stamps. Food stamps are a nutrition program, not free money to be spent as one wishes.

[TheBigotBasher]

50. Wow that survey result is disgusting.

Food stamps are disgusting, they are a disgrace in a Country that pretends to claim any civility at all. The poor and low paid should not suffer the ignominy of food stamps, support should be proper cash support. People should be free to choose whether that support should be for clothes or food, or even alcohol.

Food stamps are another way of smashing the pride of poor and working people. It is a way of separating the poor at a store.

While the Democratic Party has time in office, they should be working to rid the system of disgraces like this, looking for real ways to ensure that work pays and finding ways to support people who want to put a foot on the ladder and pull themselves up.

If you want an answer to the social problems of the US, ask why America has to spend more than every other nation put together on the arms industry?

If Democrats spent $1 million in a housing project, knocked it down and replaced it with another $1 million project, Republicans would be all over them. Yet how much does the American Government spend on bombs, which are quite literally $millions dropped from the sky?

[leftstreet]

95. +1

[Tim01]

51. Yes. And prostitutes, and gambling. nt

[lumberjack_jeff]

53. That's right. You're not their nanny.

And decent prostitutes are pricey. $700/month won't cut it. Pay up.

[alphafemale]

52. If there are children involved that should to be supported? Hell NO!

As far as the adults go? If they want to die quicker??

Less money in the long run.

And isn't some pure mainline heroin about as cheap as a 12 - pack?

Maybe we can get rid of them even sooner.

Let them eat speedball.



:sarcasm:

[VOX]

57. Flame-bait of the first order. Question is therefore irrelevant. n/t

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

60. How about anything with caffeine?

Should people who receive food stamps convert to mormonism?

[Tim01]

68. It is a reasonable argument. Slippery slope and all that.

But I think it is reasonable to draw the line at alcohol, and not caffeine.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

70. I think it's reasonable to not be a fucking teetotaler and let people decide for themselves.

That's what I think is reasonable.

[Tim01]

97. Wow. Over react much?

I'm not a teetotaler. Alcohol is a recreational drug with lots of negative effects and no positive effects.

I don't want my tax money paying people to get shitfaced when the money could go to other people who want to use it to feed themselves and their kids instead of being the town drunk.

Jack Daniels is not food.

Want to get drunk on my dime? Not if I have anything to say about it.

[kevinbgoode]

65. hmm..should bankers receiving bonuses paid for by my tax dollars

and companies whose CEOs profit from tax abatements, or farmers provided subsidies NOT to grow crops, be allowed to spend that bonus money on alcohol?

[Forkboy]

66. Seems like a hit and run post to me. Splinterist.

What do YOU think about the question you ask?

[flvegan]

69. LoZo? Hit and run post? NEVAAAAH!!!

Score one for Oasis!

[Maru Kitteh]

71. Only if there are no children in the household.

[Iggo]

86. Why should anyone with children in the household...

...be allowed to buy alcohol?

[Maru Kitteh]

142. Don't be absurd.

Income 20,000.00/mo
Food 1124.00/mo
Booze 886.00/mo

Children going hungry because unbelievably wealthy kids with incredibly irresponsible parents using tax money to by booze won't stop? ZERO.

[LeftyMom]

74. They need some rum to go in their food stamp Coke. nt

[canetoad]

75. This thread has been alive for 6 hours

And the prevailing sentiment among Duers is that those on food stamps should not spend it on alcohol.

Well, I ask you fucking sanctimonious, perfecto bastards, would you like to prescribe how food stamps should be spent? Health food? Vitamin pills? I thought not.

Don't you ever preach a sanctimonious, hypocritical word again about personal autonomy, you sick fucks.

Edit: typo only.

[Bluebear]

76. Don't hold back, now!

[canetoad]

79. lol I try not to

[LeftyMom]

77. Uhm, it's already not legal to spend food stamps on alcohol.

You can't buy Cheetos with WIC checks, either.

[seabeyond]

78. sick fuck that i am, i would like to see my nephews eat. tell ya, going to hell for that. nt

[canetoad]

81. Exactly what does the diet of your nephews

have to do with the abstract question about how food stamps are spent?

[seabeyond]

82. hm. really? lets see. limited money for food. money spent on booze. kids dont get food

they dont eat

[canetoad]

83. Well yep

That's a nice, little application of 'think globally, act locally.'

In more than one thread before now I've seen you waffle on about freedoms. And I'm so glad you brough the children up, because we should all think about the children. Even to the extent of placing the overwhelming concern about the children above the general well being of the society that nurtures them.

Seabeyond, I don't doubt that you mean well, I suspect you post without thinking through the full consequences of your statements.

[seabeyond]

90. concern children eating over well being of society so they can have booze? lol

and you think i dont think things thru.

the program is meant to take care of nutritional needs. food. hence "food" stamps. that is the purpose of the program. to allow people the ability to eat.

but canetoad. thank you for being so nice.... even in your disagreement

and no, i dont think you have seen me waffle at all about anyones freedom, anytime. i may not agree with something, i may see something as harmful, i may see inherent lies in something and have a need to call a poster out on it, but i dont go after freedoms. this is not going after someones freedoms. the purpose and intent of the program is clear. feed people

[StrongBad]

87. Do you want a serious answer?

The purpose of the "Food Stamp" program is to ensure that those who can't afford enough food to meet basic healthy nutritional standards (especially if they have children) a healthy diet through public assistance.

In my opinion, alcohol shouldn't be considered a basic nutritional food item and the money should be instead put towards genuinely healthy items.

[proteus_lives]

89. They need food.

They don't need booze.

[spoony]

128. Then why don't we trust they'll buy (mostly/enough) food?

Do the poor not know they need food?

[cali]

109. go do something unspeakable to yourself, honey.

Food stamps should be spent on food. Don't like it? Tough fucking shit.

[FLDCVADem]

113. What the hell is sanctimonious

about expecting food stamps, which are meant to provide basic nutritional needs, to be used for that purpose, rather than on an optional item that no one NEEDS in order to survive?

[harkadog]

80. The purpose of food stamps was to increase nutrition.

Alcohol does not do that so no.

[canetoad]

85. Prove it

The purpose of any kind of welfare is to provide means. You better send me a link where it says 'to provide nutrition', otherwise thats a silly piece of well-fed bullshit.

[StrongBad]

93. Ok, would the actual governmental website suffice?

Read the first sentence on the webpage:

http://www.fns.usda.gov/FSP/

Just in case you didn't see it, here's what it says:

Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP)

We help put healthy food on the table for over 35 million people each month.

SNAP helps low-income people and families buy the food they need for good health.

Good?

[Recovered Repug]

94. Then again, there's also this:

http://www.dhhs.state.nh.us/FSM_htm/newfsm.htm#701_purpose_of_food_stamps_fsm.htm



701.01 The Purpose and Uses for Food Stamp Benefits (FSM)
SR 98-51 Dated 12/98
Previous Policy


_____________________________________________________________

The Food Stamp Program exists to raise nutrition levels among low-income households.

Food stamp benefits are provided to eligible low-income households to purchase food items, including seeds and plants, for home consumption and use.

[dems_rightnow]

124. Presumably he feels REALLY stupid now

Of COURSE food stamps were meant to provide nutrition. A worthwhile goal.

[harkadog]

121. Get enough jerk?

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

98. I suppose bottled water is out of question then. -nt

[harkadog]

120. Water doesn't increase nutrition???

What planet do you come from?

[proteus_lives]

88. Hell no.

[petronius]

92. I don't care what they buy, as long as their kids only get cheese sandwiches at school

[leftstreet]

96. ...

:spray:

Thank you for that!

:rofl:

[Tim01]

101. And cigarettes. Those things are expensive now. nt

[Name removed]

102. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[SB37]

105. Look at the poll results versus the responses - it's very interesting!

The poll results - HEAVILY saying that food stamps should not be used for alcohol.

The responses - HEAVILY saying that it's OK.

I don't quite know what to make of that - I guess the minority is just much more vocal!

[spoony]

106. I guess those poor people can't be trusted

Bunch of scamming drunks, the lot of them :sarcasm:

[FLDCVADem]

114. Wrong answer

It has nothing to do with trust - it has everything to do with using food stamps for their stated purpose - nutritional needs.

[spoony]

127. Wrong attitude: many DUers don't trust the poor to be able to meet those needs

without dictating even further what they may do with the support they receive. By the way, what do you think of the OP's other food stamp poll, whether people should be allowed to use them to buy soda and candy?

[FLDCVADem]

130. I hadn't seen the other poll

I have no problem with food stamps being spent for soda and candy, although those aren't really nutritious either, but more of a treat. But alcohol? Sorry, but no, I don't think that food stamps should be used for alcohol.

When our income was very low, we cut out non-necessities like beer & wine - the money was needed elsewhere. I don't think it's unreasonable to expect people that are getting food aid from others to do the same, at least when it comes to buying it with the aid provided by others.

Sorry, but I have a moral obligation to help feed the poor, not to provide them with liquor.

[Owl]

111. Hell no.

[Name removed]

116. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[uppityperson]

123. No. Food stamps are for buying food, not drugs.

[Terra Alta]

129. to a certain extent, perhaps.

I originally voted no, but was just thinking about this today... Maybe food stamps should be set up so that a certain amount or ($15 or 10%, for example) can go towards alcohol if the recipient chooses to do so. I know I sometimes enjoy a glass of wine when I get home from work to relax me, especially if I've had a really stressful day. I think there are some people who could benefit from this. The majority of food stamps, however, should be spent on actual food. Especially if there are children involved.

[DainBramaged]

132. Of course, we should dictate how people who aren't as secure as we are to live

we're DU and when we say the poor should not be allowed to have one iota of pleasure, so be it. Let them drink water and learn to enjoy it.


:eyes:

[Freddie Stubbs]

144. The current prohibition on using food stamps for alcohol does not stop people from

buying alcohol with their own money.

[Warren DeMontague]

133. No. And as soon as we have universal health coverage, billionaires & corporations paying their fair

share in taxes, our infrastructure repaired, our schools functioning, the drug war ended, our military expenditures reduced to a sane level, global warming solved and cancer cured, we should get right on this incredibly pressing problem.

[treestar]

138. Yes, in moderation

Which could be difficult to enforce, so i can accept that they don't cover it.

[1]

141. no. alcohol is not food.