Stopping a suicide

[rustydog]

Has anyone here saved someone's life whether part of their "job" or just being in the wrong place at the right time?

I've been trying to get a grip on normalcy after a Christmas Eve incident where someone attempted to end their life where I work and I was the unlucky son of a bitch to reach her first.

When do you begin to feel "normal" again? When does the fear of going to work stop?
I've been doing what I do for 30 years and have been in some scary situations where I could have been seriously injured, even killed at work yet this incident has messed me up. I have performed CPR on babies who died, gunshot victims, Cardiac victims, broke up gang fignts, been attacked with weapons, yet saving a life had totally screwed up my sleep, my concentration and my confidence.

It is not like I walked in and watched this unhappy person drop five floors to her death, I held onto her until the calvary could arrive and pull her over the rail to safety...Shit, I saved a life and I feel like shit.

Anyone here know what I'm talking about?

[pruple]

1. I don't have a good answer for you

I've never been in such a situation. I can imagine how raw it is for you. You did a great thing.I hope you can find some peace and comfort.

[malaise]

2. When she realizes what you did

you will find peace. :grouphug:

[Better Today]

20. No she won't, she'll be pissed. Jumping like that doesn't sound like

an idle attempt, but a serious intent to die. Maybe in a few years, if she ever gets to where she sees life as being worth her efforts again, but till then, saving her is not a "good" thing in her eyes, I'm willing to bet.

[nenagh]

3. I also think that rarely people come so close to the space

between life and death...which is extremely unnerving.

I was once severely ill, it was 3 am and I was in the hospital.. with very difficult breathing problems.

One son was with me, and I said, "Please put your strong arms around me and let us breathe together.."

I was immediately comforted, but also able to synchronize my breathing better with his healthy breaths.

It still gives me goose bumps... and is a frightening yet beautiful memory.

You did well... You were the strong arms for someone else in those moments..

[rustydog]

38. What a beautiful way of putting that...Thank you!

[Clovis Sangrail]

4. I'd guess you'll never forget it

many many moons ago as a yute I was locked up in a psych ward.
Every 2 rooms shared a bathroom that had a door to each room.
People forgetting to leave the other side's door unlocked would happen every so often but anything like a paper clip could be used to unlock the door.
One afternoon after finding the door locked I knocked to see if anybody was actually using it (as had become habit).
After no answer I quickly 'picked' the lock .. and found a guy from the other room had used his bathrobe to hang himself from the ceiling.
I picked him up and screamed for staff.

I didn't feel like shit about it but I *was a bit freaked out for a while.
I still remember it pretty clearly 27 years later - and I'm sure it had a reasonable affect on how I view the world but this is probably the first time I've really thought of it in 10 years or more.

[rustydog]

5. Yute, I like that! I think your choice of words is more apt...

I was freaked out, holding on, directing the response when everyone finally arrive, keeping her safe, and moving her out of the stairwell, controlling her for police, calling the "boss" and filling him in then just completely losing it after she is taken to the Emergency Department. I sat in the same stairwell shaking uncontrollably and crying like a baby.

But now, I just feel like crap. My concentration at work is crap. I have no tolerance for the ones who whine at work because they have it so rough. I tore into one fuck who said if the girl had jumped, it would be one less loser in the world to worry about.

I don't Know, people call me a hero and I do not know how a hero is supposed to be or feel. I am tired of repeating the story for the curious. I am embarrased because most times I can't retell it without choking-up describing the person looking at me ,climbing over the rail and saying " I'm going to go". I can't sleep through the night and it is frustrating to feel like the control you once thought you had firmly in hand can be affected by a good deed!

[elehhhhna]

6. rusty, talk to a professional

sounds like ptsd

had to be terrifying.

[rustydog]

9. I am certain it is PTSD

I've seen several post suicide attempts and had intervened in another attempt several years ago at another facility, and like Isaid about the other crisis situations I have been involved in...I expected to be affected.
It was the intensity of the reaction and how quickly and hard it hit that surprised me. This is the first time I haven't slept well after an incident.

What was terrifying was, as I approached the subject, she stared at me and climbed over the rail almost 5 stories up. she had the blankest stare I have seen. In my mind I watched her drop to the floor below before I could reach her. I kept talking to her as I walked closer until I could grab her. All I could think about every second was God, please don't do this to me, please let me get her.

I debriefed after the incident with clergy and a social worker...Two weeks may be too early to simply get over it.
I'll adjust and come to accept it.

[RoyGBiv]

34. Stress like that is cumulative ...

It may not affect you like that the first time or the second or the fiftieth, but it can all build until at some point you, as they say, snap.

As just a brief bit of armchair psychology, I note you've referred to these past incidents more than once and in a way that suggests you are internally thinking about them them, at least subconsciously, on a constant basis. The incident you experienced recently is simply a part of a broad range of intense experiences, perhaps one that, by its nature of being a lingering event that allowed you time to register "the blankest stare" you've ever seen, brought into sharp focus just how often you face life or death situations and how fragile life is.

I don't want to get too deeply into that, because it is "armchair." I mention it because, while I haven't been in your specific situation, I had a similar kind of experience in a far different situations, and I've watched others have it as well.

Don't be afraid to seek professional counseling. A "debrief" may not be enough.

[TicketyBoo]

35. A doctor once said to a friend of mine

who was going through more than her share of troubles, "Everybody has a finite number of 'cope endings.' Once you reach your limit, something snaps. Once you reach that limit, it takes time to regroup and recover."

It sounds as though rustydog may have reached his limit.

(I am paraphrasing because this was more than 30 years ago, but the term "cope endings" is the exact term quoted to me.)

[Clovis Sangrail]

14. while I'd like to take credit for 'yute'

it was Joe Pesci in "My Cousin Vinnie" ;)

[rustydog]

16. I know, I just like it! We use it at work when it fits a conversation

[sharesunited]

7. The difference here was the conscious choice to end it. Isn't that what shakes you?

Confronted by someone's personal viewpoint that it is not worth going on?

You are accustomed to dealing with situations in which people are involuntarily thrust onto the precipice.

Here, they have climbed right out there and defied you to stop them.

[H2O Man]

8. The human brain

is a curious thing. And that's what you are dealing with, of course.

I worked, in part, as a community crisis responder. I had a number of similar experiences. And while everyone is different, it might be that it takes a few more weeks for you. A number of factors come into play, including the current conditions of your day-to-day life.

Our conscious minds have numerous levels. On the surface of what is best viewed as a body of water, where there is light, you know that you did a good thing. In fact, a heroic action. But on at least one other level, where there is less light, there is some tension. That is normal. Odd as it may sound, it can be expected.

If it continues to be a problem for more than another few weeks, then it is important that you not view it as a "weakness." It's something to deal with in another way. And if that is the case, among other things, you can certainly contact me. And we'll go from there.

Peace to you, my Friend,
H2O Man

[rustydog]

10. Thank you H2O man

I guess I'm trying to rationalize an extremely irrational event where my mind was pushed to it's limit during a life and death situation.

[H2O Man]

11. I just read

your OP to my wife, who was one of the people who responded to community crises with me at work. (More, she and I did the trainings for state, county and local police on responses, and she worked with officers who experienced long-term issues after dealing with tough situations.)

She said something similar to what you just wrote here. She said that the conflict is a result of trying to process something that was absolutely "out of the box" in a manner that places it "in the box." And that the timing of the event makes it that much more difficult.

Finally, she noted the part about people saying you acted in a heroic manner, though you do not view yourself as a hero (later in the thread). She said that the word heroic describes the actions of those who step up to the plate at those times of crisis, to assist their fellow human beings. And that is an accurate description of what you did.

[MuseRider]

12. No dear I do not but you

should be feeling good about this. Hmmmm. As an ICU/ER nurse I did countless rounds of CPR, participated in many things like you have to save lives or to ease them out humanely. I don't understand what it is exactly that is upsetting you about this one. I hope you can find some answers because you should be feeling like a hero rather than like shit.

Did she want to die bad enough to be angry that you saved her? Been there and it does make one feel badly.

Was she grateful?

I guess I am just trying to understand what the end situation was that might have changed things in your mind.

Edit because I forgot to add this :hug: It was a very difficult and brave thing you did and you should eventually feel good that your initial response was not to just stand there but to fling yourself into the situation for another human being. :hug: Another for good measure. Be easy with yourself, seek help and I do agree with those above, this has to be a situation that would cause PTSD.

[Berry Cool]

13. I am no expert but I agree, I think it is PTSD and you should get help.

It didn't occur to me before reading your post that a person who prevented a suicide could actually have PTSD. But why not...you were literally holding someone between the realms of life and death...most of us never come so close to that abyss. And you were interacting with someone who saw no further reason to live and had the intention of death within her...why would that not be as traumatic as skirting the edge of death yourself?

You need to talk to a professional about this to process it in a way that will bring you back to a healthy place. Good luck.

I decided to edit and add this: I think the fact that it was Christmas Eve probably made it worse. Now you will think of this every Christmas Eve, and you need to get help with that.

[Historic NY]

15. I know what you mean retiring from the "job",,,

I've had a few instances. It messes with the entire rhythm of your life. I always hate the holiday period its never been happy for me. Time & distance might help, but perhaps talking to some other professionals is the best...catharsis. I still have reminders of days gone by, it will always be a part of what you are and what you try to do, your job. Every Life has value thats the problem.

[renate]

17. was your own life in danger?

I'm trying to imagine a scenario involving a stairwell in which you wouldn't have been at some risk, too.

Maybe this time you were yourself on the line between life and death, as opposed to the previous situations that haven't affected you as much. Although the gang fights and attacks with weapons would seem to put a hole in that theory... but maybe you have a fear of heights that made this incident worse than those? Or a scary childhood memory that looked kind of like this?

Most of us who've never been in a life-or-death situation like this would be shaken up by seeing her emotional trauma, but you've dealt with highly emotional events before, so my guess would be that something about this incident made it particularly personal and threatening to you.

Thanks for sharing your feelings with us. :hug:

[Name removed]

18. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[iris27]

19. Yeah, definitely at least a bit of PTSD.

I had a comparatively mild situation...a dude at work just completely flipped out, one of those "quiet ones you gotta watch" who just starting screaming and swearing, and we were all thankful he wasn't armed because it felt like a very 'Columbine" moment. Two weeks out I was definitely NOT back to anything approaching "normal". It does get better with time, now it's been about 8 months and I'm mostly ok and don't think about it, even though he still works there. But certain things can still set me off, like hearing the song that was playing on the store muzak at the time, a coworker suddenly shouting if they drop something on their toe, etc. It really shocked me that such a small situation could affect me so much, but it did.

Time will help, but if it's really interfering with your normal functioning, I'd say definitely talk to a professional. They have coping techniques and/or meds that can get you back to a reasonable level of "ok" more quickly.

[Withywindle]

21. I agree with those who say it's PTSD and you really ought to get professional help.

The need for professional help is NOT a weakness. It's just a way of taking care of yourself.

You never know what will set you off to that point. Whatever it was, though, you still need and deserve care for yourself. Please do it, please see a counselor and tell him/her what you just told us.

[me b zola]

22. Yes, but not on the job

About 16 years ago I saved my neighbor from her husband who was about to pull the trigger on her. When the police finally got there and I fled the house, the neighbor man then shot at me twice, but missed. Yeah, you go on with life and try to tell yourself that you're okay, but you know that you are not the same. Hopefully you have a better support system than what I had, perhaps for you it will get better. :hug:

[rustydog]

23. I know it will get better

Actually the response from you guys has helped immensely.
I woke at 0230 this morning thinking of the incident again and just needed to vent.
I know this will pass, it is just so vivid right now.

Next week at work others will ask what happened and I will retell the episode again and again.
I guess it is trying to rationalize an extremely irrational act. (what I see as an irrational act)
Christmas eve, a person younger than my son has decided to kill herself. I was the first on scene and was able to prevent a horrible tragedy and was traumatized. I will get over it, it will take time.

[M155Y_A1CH]

31. The retelling will help

Just like folks need to retell their surgery stories and accident details, it is part of letting go inside. You get to bring it outside in the retelling. :hi:
Best wishes,Missy

[Odin2005]

24. I never have, but I know people that tried to commit suicide and failed...

...because others intervened.

Sounds like you have PTSD.

[mahina]

25. much respect.

and agree that it's important not to ignore your pain.

There's so much more to living than we understand; thanks for asking the question and doing the work. I hope you find a way to live with the experience.

Whoa, we have some phenomenal human beings here at DU...or human becomings. Sending you aloha.

[haele]

26. I've been on the other end of a phone call made by mistake by someone contemplating suicide

And I've been the one that stayed to deal with the aftermath of a particularly messy workplace suicide.
The first I'd like to think that by keeping the person on the phone for two/three hours until he started talking himself out of it helped him until he could get to his psychiatrist or someone else that could help him.

The second - there was nothing I could do but be there for my "people" - I was the second shift leader and had come in to work just as the corpsmen came by to pick up the remains - and make sure they and the first shift workers got help when they needed it. There was a great deal of PTSD all around with that; I put myself on autopilot for the next week to get things taken care of enough that the shop could get back to a relatively normal routine and people could feel safe coming back to work. The leadership had totally broken down during that time, and "someone" had to take charge and make sure things stayed together and people could come to grips with the trauma. Even then, we had about ten emergency transfers to different commands because some people just couldn't come back.
For me, it was still uncomfortable coming to work for the next two years, passing that spot in the far hall no matter how clean it was, and acting like the situation was over and work was back to normal. Especially when it started going on to the wee hours, and people started getting tired and cranky. And it still affects me sometimes, the way I react to situations that are or can become emergencies.

It was a good thing that you stopped it, whether or not she cares. You did what you could do to keep your own sanity.
It will be strange, and you'll probably always feel weird about being so close to the edge of life and death. But it's far better than the alternative, where you don't have the ability to make a choice one way or another, and be haunted with the incoherent feelings as I occasionally still have - of "if I just could have come in half an hour earlier, I might have been able to talk him out of it..."
Not that I would ever have come in that early to my shift without having been ordered to, but I knew the guy, I knew he was having trouble when he transferred to first shift - and we always have the urge to be the heroes of our own stories when we don't like the outcome of real life.

Haele

[rustydog]

27. Thank you, my thoughts are with you ...

I have been involved with suicide attempts brought to the hospital I used to work. On one Thanksgiving a man shot his face off with a 7mm. very messy, very disturbing. I will never forget it and to this day YEARS later, I can still conjure up the image plain as day.

There is a difference standing by for the ambulance bringing in a victim. You know what you will be facing, you just don't know how bad it will be.

It is totally different when you are face to face with a person who is one slip, one release of the hand from dying very violently.

My heart goes out to you over what you witnessed. take care.

[haele]

28. You take care also -

In my opinion, for what it's worth, what you did is like a sacrifice - you did what you did to keep the situation from getting worse. The person on the other end of your hand will be able to get help. As you will be able to, if being so close to the razor edge of life is haunting you.

If you need help, there's no shame in looking for it. In fact, it shows a lot of smarts and courage to look for help if you need it.
Luckily in the situation I was in, I had close friends outside the workplace with enough knowledge and experience that could and were willing to help me keep my sanity and balance when everything and everyone else would keep slipping over the edge for months afterwards. And the help they gave me then when I was dealing with that situation still keeps me going through the times the past sneaks back to the present.

Haele

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

29. Sounds like PTSD my friend, you may need to talk to someone.

[applegrove]

30. I don't know what you are going through but I do have PTSD. You were

holding onto this woman for minutes and that is a long time. I would go and see a counselor, a psychologist or a psychiatrist and ask them if you can be helped to cope with this because in sounds like this event has shattered you.

Oh and HOT DAM ARE YOU ONE HONKING HERO!!!! Congratulations. You've done good and I hope for you that one day soon you will remember that part of it and not the traumatizing part.

[Skittles]

32. I got a coworker to admit to me he was making suicide plans

I confronted him about his depression / change in behavior - got him to tell his doctor about it; he's in counseling and on anti-depressants now

[rustydog]

37. Wow, good Job! Thank you for caring enough to step in..

I have difficulty seeing how someone gets so low that their only way out is suicide.
I do not think it is a "Cowards" way out like some of my co-workwers profess,
That is ignorance and uncaring on a scale that stuns me.

I feel for these people who believe no one cares, that life is so bad at that moment that it is best for everyone concened ifthat person simply stopped existing. Sad, so sad.

[Skittles]

39. I have no difficulty understanding it

grew up seeing it with my own eyes

[lapislzi]

33. Believe it or not....

I was rife with ethical conundra after I saved a friend from suicide. I got a call from a mutual friend, who was too far away to intervene in time, saying, "Go to D___'s house right now. She's in trouble." I jumped into my car and had to break into her house. But I was able to summon the paramedics in time and stayed with her at the hospital until she was admitted and stable. It was scary.

She had legitimate reasons for wanting to end her life: health problems, no insurance, a series of bad breakups, a car wreck that left her unable to make her living (she was self-employed.) Shit, under the same circumstances, I might have taken a bottle of pills and drunk two bottles of wine.

But, of course, since I was *there*, it was incumbent upon me to rescue her. Now she's glad, because her life's turned around. At the time, I wasn't so sure. Who was I to say, "you have to live?" Did she have the right to take her own life?

I believe we do. But, I guess if you're the sonofabitch who shows up first, you have to err on the side of life. At least that was the conclusion--or rationalization; call it what you will--that I came to.

Thoughts?

[rustydog]

36. It looks like we think along the same lines...

I know what I did was right. But I would not want to wish this "Hero" crap on my worst enemy.
But, you feel good about yourself knowing what you did was right. You helped another in need when they thought for whatever reason, they had no one to turn to.

You did a damn good thing my friend.

[gleaner]

40. I think I do ....

I worked at a federal agency not known for its compassion. One day after hours a man called me and said he was going to kill himself. He said he had a gun there with him and I would get to hear it. I began talking to him as soothingly as I could or rather listening to him. He told me his family thought he was a failure. He could not find work. He had no money and didn't know what to do anymore. He had business with us which he could not face and asked if I could help him. He had very little control. His moods were labile and changed quickly from anger to tears.

I told him I would help him and kept him talking to me until he sounded calmer. Every time I would try to find out where he was so I could call for help he would get furious with me and say I was making him want to "do it." After an hour on the phone he said he wanted to get off and sleep for a while. I asked him to promise to call me in the morning when I got to work because I had no way to call him. He did, and the next day he was still hanging in, although shaky. He still wanted to shoot himself so my supervisor and I kept talking to him until he agreed to tell us where he was. She called 911 and I kept him on the phone until they came and told me they had him and to hang up.

I was haunted that whole night and for sometime afterwords I had a lot of trouble sleeping. I often wonder what happened to him and if he is alright. We did suspend his business and I never heard from him again. I think what you experience is the feeling of stepping too close to an abyss and seeing how easy it is for people to fall off the edge. It is not a feeling you ever forget, but it does fade and become more livable.

You did a good thing. You are the kind of person people want to come if they are ever in trouble. I hope you feel better soon, and hopefully, she will realize someday what you did for her.

[rustydog]

42. I hope you can know how much what you wrote here means to me

Thank you.

[gleaner]

45. You're welcome ......

I'm glad I could help. The whole time I was talking to that guy all I could think was, "What if I screw up? What if he dies and I didn't do enough?" It is haunting and I do understand as well as anyone can. If you need to talk more PM me. I'll be glad to talk to you.

[xultar]

41. As a person who has attempted suicide, I want to just say thank you....

and ....talk to someone. You've done a great thing now take care of yourself.
:pals:

[shadowknows69]

43. As someone who has at least contemplated it every day for about 22 years

And feels kind of close to my own ledge right now. I also thank you.

[xultar]

47. If you ever need to talk or need a laugh PM me o.k.?

[shadowknows69]

49. Same goes for you Xultar. I've always been a good listener.

And if I can ever get my own head sufficiently in order I think I'd really like to embark on a career of counseling.

[renate]

48. I don't know how to help but I can't just let that go without responding

:hug:

PM me if you feel like talking, although I don't know how helpful I could be.

Wow... every day for 22 years... you are one hell of a courageous person. Seriously, you have the kind of bravery and endurance that most people never even meet, let alone dream of for themselves.

:hug:

[shadowknows69]

50. Thank you for the kind post.

And I wish I could always attribute it to courage, but in fact if I'd owned easier ways to kill myself in the past (Gun specifically) I may well have broke by now. As it (luckily?) stands I'm too cowardly to endure the pain an overdose can cause. Can't bring myself to cut myself significantly enough and If I tried to hang myself I'd probably screw that up because I'm not the most agile person in the world and never learned to tie a noose.

[rustydog]

51. I am at a loss of words my friend,

What does one say to someone who thinks they have no other option? Tomorrow will be better? There are people who care about you? You do count for something in the world?

It is so easy to be judgmental and check it off to people being so self-centered and egotistical that they are suicidal because they want to take the easy way out. Easy way! Kiss my ass you ignorant bastards.

I wish I could know what to say to help make things better, but I truly am an ordianry man who had been caught in an extrodinary circumstance...

My heart goes out to you and thank you for caring about me.

[mstinamotorcity]

44. There is no specific time or day

when the call of humanity will sound.There are times when we are fortunate to be at the right place at the right time. You have done a good thing. The problem is you value life and to see someone have no value in it has taken you back a few steps. The very thing some of us would never consider can sometimes be the thing that saves others.Like those times you left early from an event to find out later something happened.Or went to a friends house because you were worried and something was wrong.We all have things that happen to us in life some are shocking and some full of love.What you did was the full of love thing.Your love for life would not let you let go of their hand.Sometimes when you give a part of yourself you have this draining feeling. This will go away with a little time.If you are having a little trouble sleeping may i suggest if you drink coffee or cola to cut back on your intake.Instead of that quick shower run a nice warm bath with some epsom salts and maybe a little lavender oil it has a calming effect. Then top it off with some sleepytime tea. or your favorite cocktail.You sound if you work at a job that has a high demand of personal attention and some stress factors.These can contribute to a lot of restlessness over time.the attempted suicide was probably a good catalyst for some of the emotions you are going through now.If your symptoms persist talk to a counselor it may be your turn to get help.

[ddeclue]

46. Sounds like you did a good job to me...try talking to someone..

if you're religious.. a minister.. if not then talk to a counselor or psychiatrist or a trusted friend or spouse or parent. You need to have more than just the one conversation...talk to them repeatedly about the situation and watch out for things that will queue bad memories. Avoid using alchohol or drugs to deal with it.

This said, I have a hard time relating..I've performed CPR twice, been hit by a car in a carjacking..a la. T.J. Hooker, stopped a robbery and being a pilot taken off and landed planes many times but I really don't get rattled by anything - maybe that's a flaw I don't know but I remain pretty objective and cool in just about any circumstance.