Would Jesus oppose capitalism, as Moore argues?

[defendandprotect]

Did Jesus oppose capitalism, as Moore argues?

By ANDREW CLUMPUS
Sat. Jan 9 - 4:46 AM

Michael Moore, director of Capitalism: A Love Story, says you can’t be a religious Christian and a capitalist. (Chris Pizzello / AP)ndre

Would Jesus Christ — the founder of the largest religion in the world, unequivocally recognized as a messenger of peace and love — support capitalism?

It’s one of the questions filmmaker Michael Moore, the well-known creator of documentaries such as Bowling for Columbine and Sicko, asks in his latest film, Capitalism: A Love Story.

In Capitalism, the filmmaker wonders whether Christ would support a system that, as the filmmaker stated, "has allowed the richest one per cent to have more financial wealth than the 95 per cent under them combined."

Moore, a Roman Catholic, argues that Jesus’ commandments to care for others and feed the poor and hungry go against the love of money and greed that make up capitalism. He argues that one cannot be a religious Christian and a capitalist.

Clement Mehlman, a Lutheran chaplain at Dalhousie University, agrees.

"Jesus was a Jewish peasant, coming from an underprivileged tradition Himself, so He would have been what we would call a communist or a socialist," he says. "And there are elements of communism in descriptions of early Christian communities. They pooled their resources. There was not independent wealth, there was communal wealth."

The idea that Christ preached a socialist message would probably scare some conservative believers, but Mehlman has no problem with that.

"Jesus says to follow Him, you have to give everything you own to the poor," he says with a wry smile. "How many Christians do you see doing that? It’s a text that should be thrown at the wealthy fat cats."

http://thechronicleherald.ca/Religion/1161365.html

[eShirl]

1. "Jesus says to follow Him, you have to give everything you own to the poor,"

I think that says it right there.

[Toots]

79. poor is a very relative term

There are probably very few "poor" people in the USA by world standards.

[Fumesucker]

2. He ran the money changers out of the temple, no?

[niceypoo]

7. Televangelists

[dysfunctional press]

8. that was more about keeping them out of 'his father's house'...

than a repudiation of an entire economic system.

[Fumesucker]

11. If capitalism is so great then what's wrong with moneychangers in god's house?

Edited to add: Capitalism pretty much has to have both rich and poor or it's not really capitalism.

[dysfunctional press]

23. you'd have to ask god- it's his house.

but i don't think that my dad would appreciate them being set up in his garage every day either, though.

[Fumesucker]

42. Given that I do not believe in any god that will be a little difficult..

[jmowreader]

83. The moneychangers were extortionists

People like to say, "why are people so dishonest now? Why can't they be good like they used to be?" In reality, people have always been dishonest.

Case in point: the moneychangers in the Temple. In days of old large public gathering places--temples, castles, places like that--were used for commerce. Why wouldn't they have been? It would have made no sense to go to all the time and trouble of quarrying stone, moving it great distances and turning it into a large edifice if you weren't willing to use it all the time. Well...when Jesus got to the Temple, he probably found the moneychangers taking fifty percent, and the sellers of animals (read: sacrificial offerings) were charging double what sellers outside of Jerusalem were getting.

Jesus could also be a grade-A prick. Read Matthew 21:18-21. Jesus was hungry, but the fig tree he tried to eat from had no figs because it wasn't the season for them...so, of course, Jesus destroyed the tree. There were people counting on that tree, but because Jesus was pissed at it because he couldn't read a calendar some poor farmer who was going to sell the figs to keep his family alive this winter got evicted and starved to death.

And as for Michael Moore's assertion that Christianity and Capitalism are incompatible: sorry, Mike, but you're full of shit. Look at some of the stories Jesus told: specifically the parable of the ten minas in Luke 19. (It is a version of the "ten talents" tale and it makes more sense; instead of giving one guy ten talents so he could have enough to invest in junk bonds and a third guy one talent so he wouldn't even have enough money to open a savings account, he took ten minas and gave one to each of 10 servants. We dig down to verse 26: "I tell you that to everyone who has, more will be given, but as for those who have nothing, even what they have will be taken away." That Jesus tells stories like this indicates that he APPROVES of robber baron capitalism.

[JDPriestly]

30. I believe that you are missing the point, dysfunctional press.

Capitalism per se is not the evil. Capitalism is a rather natural way to organize economic exchange. What is evil in theological terms are the sins of greed, of gluttony, of the failure to love and care for our neighbors as ourselves.

It is capitalism as it is now being practiced that Jesus would condemn: capitalism that shuts an eye to massive fraud in the housing market, to usury and to corruption at the highest levels of government and business.

As far as we know, Jesus was a poor man who visited and healed the sick, preached hope to the poor and warned the greedy that storing up treasures on earth would destroy their spiritual life.

So, now we have Hank Paulson, Robert Rubin, health insurance magnates and their ilk amassing fortunes on the misery of the poor. Based on His teachings, Jesus would not approve of the conduct of the super-rich.

One of the pastors in the article makes the point that just donating money is not enough. Jesus met the poor. He talked to them. He touched them. He comforted them. That is the example he set.

In my experience in non-profit work, government grants (paying higher taxes) are the best way to get money to essential social services. Private organizations such as churches do not require the kind of detailed grant applications or reporting of outcomes that the government does. In addition, the cost of obtaining public grants (because they are larger and easier to learn about) is probably lower than for private grants, and the cost of obtaining and managing government grants helps the development of social service programs in a more comprehensive, meaningful way than private grants.

Whatever you may think about God and religion, Jesus' teachings that concern caring for the poor are inspiring.

[ismnotwasm]

44. Reminds me of the story about the poor widow

12:38 And he said unto them in his doctrine, Beware of the scribes, which love to go in long clothing, and love salutations in the marketplaces,
12:39 And the chief seats in the synagogues, and the uppermost rooms at feasts:
12:40 Which devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayers: these shall receive greater damnation.
12:41 And Jesus sat over against the treasury, and beheld how the people cast money into the treasury: and many that were rich cast in much.
12:42 And there came a certain poor widow, and she threw in two mites, which make a farthing.
12:43 And he called unto him his disciples, and saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That this poor widow hath cast more in, than all they which have cast into the treasury:
12:44 For all they did cast in of their abundance; but she of her want did cast in all that she had, even all her living.
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/mk/12.html

I use SAB for reference here, but Wiki actually has an interesting article on the topic;

"Witnessing the donations made by the rich men, Jesus highlights how a poor widow donates only two mites, the least valuable coins available at the time. But, Jesus observes, this sum was everything she had to her name, while the other people give only a small portion of their own wealth.

Taken literally, the widow's donation of one mite could have been by obligation, since she could not have given any less. Following this reasoning, some interpreters note that Jesus sits down in judgment "opposite" (over against, in opposition to) the treasury; the lesson drawn emphasizes that, while people are impressed with the large sums that are put in, they did not notice that the temple took half of what the "poor widow" had to live on. Connected with Mark 13:1-2, "there will not be left one stone upon another, that will not be thrown down", the lesson is then interpreted as promising the overthrow of any worship of God sustained by robbery.

However, since the woman would have been under no obligation to give the second mite, when she gave "all her living" she could not have given any more. Following this reasoning, the tale is typically understood by Christians as a condemnation of the rich as they are described, for their inflated self importance displayed by the ostentatious announcements of their own generosity: which Jesus dwarfs by comparison to the widow's mite. Also, in light of its proximity to the widow's mite story, Mark 13:1-2 may imply that the widow's worship is of greater value than the Temple. Accordingly, the story is typically taken as an admonition to be wholeheartedly devoted to God, rather than concerned with pleasing men.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lesson_of_the_widow's_mite


I think a cigar is just a cigar here, and the widow's offering is of more value, spiritually or otherwise, simply because it's value was partially in the gesture itself and the monetary worth was greater to her personally.

[dysfunctional press]

46. i wasn't commenting on the article- i was answering the question about the money changers...

in the temple getting the boot.

[asdjrocky]

34. No. It wasn't.

Why did he want them out of his fathers house?

[dysfunctional press]

47. yes. it was.

would your dad want them in his house?

[Canuckistanian]

12. So, he was probably against currency speculation

And he was DEFINITELY against using religious reasons to "fleece the flock".

[Fumesucker]

17. What are currency speculators other than pure capitalists?

Hard to speculate in currency if you have no capital.

[left is right]

29. The thing about His anger with the money changers

First, they were selling inferior animals that did not meet traditional sacrificial standards and charging too much for them.
But most important, due to rule changes that had only just taken place, the money changers were allowed to encroach upon the space that was reserved for worship by women,foreigners, and those considered ceremonially unclean who could not enter the Temple itself.
His driving out the money changers was as much an indictment against the power-holders (the levitical priests) that allowed the above conditions as it was of the greedy merchants

Typing that just struck me as having significance in regards to our own Congressional/corporate situation

Having wasted this much of all of your time, I might as well waste a few more minutes by stating that the Old Testament used a whole lot of words talking about the fair and proper (both fair and generous) treatment of the widow, orphaned and the foreigner that dwelt among them. When studying the Bible a cardinal rule is about proportionality. The more an issue is written about, the more important it is. Few issues have more mention in either the Old or New Testament than treatment of the nation's most vulnerable citizens.

[Fumesucker]

45. In that case hypocrites are in real trouble..

Cuz the sin the Christ most often and vociferously denounced was that of hypocrisy.

Sucks to be them.. :evilgrin:

[jwirr]

3. He did not own a home, his followers gave to the poor and gave up

their businesses to follow him. The only way He would have been for capitalism would have been with a great deal of regulations to control the greed and corruption. As to owning businesses and property - well Joseph was a carpenter, and their is evidence that He did not disapprove of home ownership and even business (fishing boats). But I agree with Moore - He would not recognize what we have now as any form of Christian life.

[OHdem10]

4. Jesus (God) gave us free-will (to make choices)..

IMO, people are free to choose their economic system.
IMO, he would not approve the UNFETTERED(unregulated)
Capitalism of today. By its very nature, it favors the
rich and has proven the rich get richer and poor and
middle class suffer.

Capitalism has to be regulated in such a way as to
provide fairness--this does not mean equality. It
does mean one group does not suffer at the hands
of another group.

[Fumesucker]

9. If God is all knowing and all powerful then there is no free will..

Everything is as God wishes, if he, she or it wished otherwise then it would be different.

Which is why I don't believe in a god or gods, I prefer to think I have free will.

[dysfunctional press]

21. that's not necessarily true.

what if god's wish is for man to have free will?

he just got things going, and maintains a position as a mostly uninvolved observer. :shrug:

just because a deity is all-powerful and all-knowing- it doesn't mean that they have to act on it.

i don't believe in gods either- but it has nothing to do with a desire for 'free will'...i just find it all to be silly non-sensible.

[Clovis Sangrail]

35. I don't think I agree

I don't believe in gods either but omniscience or even omnipotence doesn't necessarily mean the god is actually *controlling everything to the point that there is no free will.

I went to Catholic school and they were very heavy on the idea that their god *could change anything but didn't so we would have free will.

[Dorian Gray]

38. Why would that have to be the case?

God can't be omniscient yet still allow people to have free will? Why not?

[Fumesucker]

43. How could it be otherwise?

Omniscience means it is impossible to be surprised, which means that everything is preordained.

[Dorian Gray]

75. No it doesn't

if he knows all, he knows the choices people make, but that doesn't mean he controls those choices. People could still have their own will in choice making.

This is all speculative, of course, but I don't think that what you said precludes free will at all.

[patrice]

5. Jesus knew that if there is something like "salvation", Freedom is essential to its realization.

And I will stand by the "if" in the subject line, because, as I understand it, Orthodox Jews do not claim what Christians refer to as "life after death", anyhow . . .

Freedom is the key and that requires honesty about whatever economic system you are living in or growing toward.

[FreakinDJ]

6. Robber Barons - definitly YES

"You are to go forth and be prosperous" - but definitly not at the expense of others

I'm sure Murdock has a special place in Hell set aside for him for Robbing the Pension Benefits of 10s of 1000s of Hard Working Americans

[dysfunctional press]

10. ultimately, it just depends on how a person's chosen faith tells them to interpret the mythology.

[Fumesucker]

It's my belief that people take away from scriputure exactly what they bring to it..

If you are kind, gentle and loving person then you will find those portions of scripture that reinforce those traits.

Conversely, if you are an angry and vengeful person you can find plenty of scripture to reinforce those attitudes too.

Scripture is the ultimate Rorschach test..

[dysfunctional press]

24. the same could be said of a lot of books.

most fiction is open to plenty of interpretation.

[Fumesucker]

41. Yes, but most fiction is not held by a lot of people as divine revelation..

It's the divine revelation part that makes scripture such a powerful force, if people just thought of it as another fiction they wouldn't use it to justify their beliefs and actions.

[dysfunctional press]

49. just because some people see it as 'divine revelation'- it doesn't mean that it is.

any more so than the words of the buddha, which are held as divine revelation by even more people.

[Fumesucker]

59. I didn't say that it was, only that many people hold it to be so..

It is that belief that certain stories are divine revelation which give them so much power.

[Dorian Gray]

39. I agree with this....

people always see what they want to see and use those things to justify their desires.

[JDPriestly]

32. This is not about whether Jesus and what are claimed to be his teachings are mythology.

It is about a collection of sayings and actions attributed to Jesus that are wise and helpful on a practical level. If you don't like the traditional Bible, try the Jefferson Bible. It's an interesting concept.

[dysfunctional press]

52. i find 'hints from heloise' to be far more wise and helpful- on a practical level, anyway.

and they have the added benefit of being based in fact, not fantasy.

[NoPasaran]

84. Of course some say that Heloise never actually existed as an historical person

She may have been created by the First Century writer Flavius Josephus.

[freddie mertz]

13. Yes, he would. "Eye of a needle," Moneylenders in the Temple, and all that.

Capitalism in its current for is antithetical to Christ's teachings.

[Towlie]

27. Also, the early Christians described in Acts of the Apostiles lived as communists.

[blueworld]

14. Render unto Caesar...

For myself, I don't think Jesus had a problem with business or capitalism or any other ism. I interpret His words to mean that I should support my self and share with ALL my brothers & sisters. The sins, as I see them, are greed, gluttony, hatred...these don't necessarily have to be part of capitalism and saintliness isn't necessarily a part of socialism or communism.

Jesus was a carpenter; He earned a living & helped support His family. He paid His taxes. He fought greed & exploitation & hypocrisy. He healed the sick & cared about the poor & neglected. The only thing He condemned loudly was oppressive government & oppressive religion.

I believe it is intolerable for me as a Christian to sit back & watch millions of my brothers & sisters suffer poverty, illness etc. And so I must fight for equal opportunity, FAIR trade, clean water, clean food...and I MUST sacrifice - I MUST live more simply so others may simply live.

I can't sit around stuffing my face & piously intoning that certain groups of people "deserve" their suffering or are lazy or have no right to expect me to sacrifice or "pay for" something to help them. We may not all have the same luxury in life, but we MUST all have the basic food, shelter, medical needs met and we MUST all have the same opportunity to add a little luxury if we feel like it.

Capitalism doesn't necessarily prevent that. Greedy, corrupt, crooked pigs are found in all areas of life EVERYWHERE.

[mdmc]

15. No Jesus would not oppose capitalism

He would continue to teach, and encourage people to do good things. (Give up everything and ) Follow him if they want to be perfect.

I think that ACTS 4:34-35 (There was no needy person among them, for those who owned property or houses would sell them, bring the proceeds of the sale, and put them at the feet of the apostles, and they were distributed to each according to need.) is essentially a capitalist statement.

Notice how there is private property, a free market, and buyers and sellers. The "perfect" give it all up. The rest of us are part of the rat race.

I think Jesus would go on teaching, and encourage people to learn. If people wanted to profit instead, I think Jesus would leave them to do so.

[anonymous171]

58. How is that in any way a capitalist statement? nt

[JDPriestly]

70. Jesus was dead by the time the Acts of the Apostles were written.

The Acts are the story of the early church and the advice of the leaders of that church. What the Acts say and what Jesus said are two different things.

[katandmoon]

16. Who knows? There were no eyewitnesses to Jesus. There are no direct quotes from him. There is not

even any definitive proof that he existed. So that makes it very convenient to project whatever message you want to through him, and say that's what he would have said or thought or done.

[MineralMan]

18. Jesus, as depicted in the New Testament,

is a human construct. Based on what is written there, he probably would have counseled that people should not concern themselves with such things, but focus on their faith.

That said, nobody really knows what this Joshua actually said. There are no contemporaneous accounts of him.

[Laura902]

19. Assuming jesus was actually a person.....

.......he would def be a socialist

[patrice]

31. or persons . . . I think he is an archetype an actual person embodying real tendencies in other real

persons and the story of this particular Jesus illustrates what happens to this type of revolutionary when s/he is too Free for TPB, i.e. the church-state-business

[Laura902]

40. I'm not sure i understand

you think jesus may have been a group of people with altruistic beliefs at one point in time or am I way off?

[patrice]

50. My thinking is highly influenced by the Historic Jesus, studied by The Jesus Seminar.

The Jesus Seminar says something like: In the Jewish culture over the aeons, there were these figures who rose from time to time with various particular messages most of which mostly had to do with ending, one way or another, Oppression of one form or another and, at the time of the Jesus in question, this would have been the Roman occupation. The Jesus we know was one such messiah figure, who actually did live and preach (a relatively NEW message about Love and how to free one's self by Loving) and who may have had some somewhat unusual healing skills, and in whom many of the previous such figures and their messages, preserved in tribal aural traditions, were combined. These messiahs came to various ends, but the one who is the subject of the NT, and also incidentally some of his predecessors, was killed for disturbing the status-quo. The Jesus Seminar is quite non-committal on the meaning of the empty tomb and that's fine with me. In fact, I find it more consistent than the "quid pro quo" kind of Christianity* that dominates the market today.

This Historical Jesus, as sketched by The Jesus Seminar, is also pretty consistent with a powerful and useful body of Personality Theory developed by the Psychologist Carl Gustav Jung and mirrored nearly universally in anthropological records of the striking similarities between bodies of myth and religion all over Earth and as old as humanity itself.

edited for subject:verb disagreement

[Laura902]

69. wow thats a very interesting take on it! n/t

[patrice]

71. I like it because it is organic and that takes the mumbo-jumbo out of it.

[zeemike]

20. I think Jesus would be against all ism's

no matter what form they take.
Capital itself is not evil, but it is the ism that makes it so.

[timtom]

22. No question about it.

"My kingdom is not of this world."

[Jane Austin]

25. Check out the Parable of the Vineyard

And think about it real hard as a metaphor for "salvation".

Jesus didn't put much store on who deserves what, because we're all sinners and no one is more deserving (of salvation or God's grace) than anyone else.

In fact, once you start thinking you're more deserving than someone else, you're on the judgemental path and are sinning right there.

Capitalism has a heavy emphasis on some deserving more than others, so I can't see Jesus endorsing something like that.

[Towlie]

26. Supply Side Jesus would have endorsed capitalism.

http://www.buzzflash.com/contributors/03/09/17_franken.html

[Generic Other]

28. He said to render unto Caesar what was his

so he acknowledged the owner class, but he lived a life that suggested a vow of poverty. He did not multiply the loaves and the fishes simply to charge the masses a few coins to eat. He shared the wealth. Every aspect of his life suggests he was a dreaded "SOCIALIST." The rich have perverted his message to excuse their own shortcomings as Christians. What else could they do? Act like real Christians? Heaven forbid! That would require truly lifting their own crosses and carrying them. It would require real sacrifice on their parts. Instead they sacrifice their god on the altar of their greed. It is why I could never count myself as one of their number. They are hypocritical, selfish, and ultimately evil. If you can name me 5 good Christian who actually exemplify the moral teachings of their founder, I would be surprised. I am reasonably certain none of them are pastors, priests, bishops or popes.

I await the day when the televangelists get on TV and urge their viewers not to send them money, but instead to take it into their own communities to minister to the poor and sick. I await the day when the Pope removes his garments of gold and opens his arms to the homeless and invites them to use the pews of the churches for beds. I await the day when those who display their sanctimonious "beliefs" around their necks in the form of gold crosses melt that gold down to build hospitals to minister to the sick who cannot afford care. I await the day when Christians do more than make a grand spectacle of their faith. I await the day when they are given their just rewards as well they deserve.

Until then, I believe the best of them to be no better than the worst among them.

[Gman2]

33. Jesus would be against our FUTURES based markets.

That funding model, as well as our crass advertisement/ consumer economic model, would horrify him. Seeing citizens as revenue generators, would have him throwing lightning bolts. The empire promoting, therefore requiring people always dying at your hand, would have Jesus dissagreeing with Falwell types, that call this GOD'S country. Like those that McCain's campaign used their music, Jesus would sue many, for using his endorcement. Capitalism, is crass, and aims to service noone but themselves.

[patrice]

36. i.e. SLAVERY - loss of freedom not only in the present but for future generations to come.

One of the reasons that War is is hideous. It is sooooooo completely and profoundly effective at enslaving everyone.

[madrchsod]

37. yes.

[MyNameGoesHere]

48. No because jeebus is a made up

character that is the ideal model of how humans are supposed to act. However since he was created by men he has evolved into something really bizarre. Each side creating their vision of jeebus in their own image.

[anonymous171]

53. If I asked "Would Gandalf oppose Capitalism?" would you say the same thing? nt

[MyNameGoesHere]

60. yes n/t

[patrice]

56. If you look at cognitive models, you'll see that things are "made up" out of Real phenomena of

one type or another.

Errors that people have introduced into those understandings for their own motivation$$$$$$$$$$ aside, He is as real as you are.

[MyNameGoesHere]

61. i suppose he is as real

as the ink on the pages of the booble. But not even close to my realness.

[patrice]

62. Your "realness"!!! ROFL!!! You and I are nothing but a bunch of digits processed by something called

the internet.

It all depends upon how you look at it, and . . .

***If*** you are capable of claiming "Realness", that is not fundamentally possible for you to even claim UNLESS you also recognize that it is possible for others others to claim too. If they "can't", neither "can" you.

I am a Christian and I am Real.

[MyNameGoesHere]

72. Smileys to ya.

We all need some entertainment in life i suppose.

[patrice]

64. P.S. Is your name REALLY "MyNameGoesHere", oh! how Brave of you, Your Realness!!!

:sarcasm:

[patrice]

65. P.P.S. I don't really have a problem with you making that claim if it weren't for the fact that you

ALSO found it necessary to disparage others which totally undercuts your claim re yourself.

Critical assessment of error is one thing, but IF you are "real", that stands without ***NEEDING*** to insult other realities. You do the very thing that you fault in "them", you are, thus, one of them with just a slightly different set of stripes.

[MyNameGoesHere]

73. Wow 3 replies

you must get really pissed off when someone doesn't genuflect to your inner messiah. I have voices in my head too can i be god?

[anonymous171]

51. He was an anarcho-communist (in spirit at least.) nt

[patrice]

54. I pretty much agree with that statement. Even though, in theory, he would not oppose Capitalism

that did not ENSLAVE others, in practice that phenomenon is BY FAR the most predominant FACT. Dishonest LYING Capitalism, of the variety that the U.S. practices, especially with its heavy subsidization of War and Militarism, read that SOCIALISM FOR DEATH AND DESTRUCTION, is much more capable of ENSLAVING EVERYONE than what we call "Communism" ever had an opportunity to be.

[berni_mccoy]

55. Does it require money to enter Heaven? I think not.

[goclark]

57. Not a dime nt

[Kaleva]

63. Jesus offered another way but left it to the individual to make their own choice.

[WinterParkDonkey]

66. Read your bible with objectivity folks!

Christ tossed out the moneychangers because they were becoming the focus of what was going on at the temple!

The statement about 'give unto Ceasar' is also incorrect. Jesus wouldn't look at the coin because it had Ceasar's picture on it and the Romans believed that whomever was 'Ceasar' was a god. The Jews did not put peoples' faces on their money. Its also one of the reasons why when the Jews allowed the Romans to take them over they were allowed to continue to coin their own money.

Capitolism is not perfect...neither is any other economic system. It grew out of Europe during a time when the Reformation was happening. In its ideal form I think it is better than communism or socialism.

[Kaleva]

67. The Jews allowed the Romans to take them over?

[anonymous171]

68. He tossed them out because they were quantifying what should not be quantified

Just like today's modern capitalists, the money changers thought only in numbers, and never thought about anything else.

[TreasonousBastard]

74. Moore makes propaganda, not documentaries, and has no...

credentials as a theologian or biblical historian.

Jesus certainly looked askance at greed and avarice, but nowhere did he ever say you couldn't run an honest business. At least one parable says you must use your talents to the greatest and get a good return on your investment.

Jeez, he even went along with Roman slavery.

[invictus]

76. There is no evidence that Jesus was a real person, so the point is moot.

[DavidDvorkin]

80. Right you are

Moreover, if he had existed, and if we had a reliable record of what he said, his opinion of capitalism would be of minor historical interest only.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

77. Acts 2:42-47

42They devoted themselves to the apostles' teaching and to the fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer. 43Everyone was filled with awe, and many wonders and miraculous signs were done by the apostles. 44All the believers were together and had everything in common. 45Selling their possessions and goods, they gave to anyone as he had need. 46Every day they continued to meet together in the temple courts. They broke bread in their homes and ate together with glad and sincere hearts, 47praising God and enjoying the favor of all the people. And the Lord added to their number daily those who were being saved.

[KG]

78. Jesus was a PROUD capitalist!

[totodeinhere]

81. I don't care if Jesus would oppose capitalism or not.

He is nothing more than a mostly mythical historical figure anyway. I'm more interested in what bona fide important historical figures would have thought.

[Gman2]

82. He said that ALL the commandments can be satisfied by loving your neighbor as yourself.

CApitalism, by it's nature is a zero sum game. The fed enforces that. Therefore Immoral. Loving all the same as you also makes you part of the population, and the universe. This being the main point of all religions. Lose ego, no pain. Lose ego, we all get along. This losing ego, is the antithesis of capitalism. It asks us to be maximally selfish. A scratching, clawing affair. Screwing your neighbor just means a profit. Sociopaths inhabit all the lofty places. The meek, they mop and shovel. And grovel. And subject their lives to scrutiny. And for specified hours, virtual slavery. Human resources is there to enforce this, and keep you down.