Losing Liberal Arts: Liberal arts education and the growing class divide

[marmar]

from In These Times:



Losing Liberal Arts
Liberal arts education and the growing class divide.

By Valerie Saturen


At the end of the 2007-2008 academic year, shrinking enrollment and a budget crisis forced Antioch College to close its doors after 156 years of progressive liberal arts education. Other liberal arts colleges and programs are under similar stress. University of California-Santa Cruz is not accepting applications to its History of Consciousness for the 2010-2011 academic year. Goddard College underwent dramatic restructuring in 2002, and the New College of California ended operations in 2008. These losses are emblematic of the hardships facing liberal arts and humanities programs.

In light of rising costs, students fear liberal arts degrees are not worth the price tag. Consequently, interest in the liberal arts and humanities is on the wane, and the education they provide runs the risk of becoming restricted to elites who are rich in capital—cultural and otherwise. The liberal arts are not the only source of a valuable education, but they place an unparalleled emphasis on critical thinking, integrated learning and civic engagement. The growing inaccessibility threatens to deepen the divide between a well-educated elite (once called the ruling class) and a technically proficient, but less broadly educated, middle and working class.

In the face of financial insecurity, students, colleges and universities have begun to calculate the value of higher education in terms of the “bottom line.” As tuition skyrockets and education becomes more unaffordable, students want assurances that their degrees will benefit them financially. A 2004 UCLA survey of incoming freshmen at 700 colleges and universities reported that the top reasons chosen for going to college included “to get training for a specific career” (74.6 percent), “to be able to get a better job” (71.8 percent), and/or “to be able to make more money” (70.1 percent). Meanwhile, over the last 25 years tuition has risen by 440 percent—more than four times the rate of inflation.

A college degree is no longer a dependable ticket to a middle-class lifestyle. Though a 2006 study commissioned by the Association of American Colleges & Universities showed that business leaders seek employees with a wide base of skills and knowledge, recent graduates are not finding a higher education advantageous amid the economic downturn. The job market for college graduates dropped 40 percent in 2009, according to a Michigan State University study of 2,500 companies nationwide. For many graduates lucky enough to find employment, the recession has meant taking low-paying retail or customer service jobs while struggling to pay off student loans. .........(more)

The complete piece is at: http://www.inthesetimes.com/article/5312/losing_liberal_arts

[niyad]

1. our values are so skewed--we are losing liberal arts, the basis for any civilized society, yet a

football coach can get $3 million per year, with a $2 million bonus. would love to know what fully-tenured professors are getting at that school, and how well the actual students are doing.

[Happyhippychick]

2. I don't think it's necessarily a terrible thing.

I got a useless English degree (from one of the top ten universities in this country) and it gave me nothing. Many years later I went to grad school for social work and got on a career track for the first time in my life (in my 40's). Before that I wasn't really qualified to do anything special.

I wish that I had started the social work track in undergrad (or the education track). I don't think a liberal arts degree gave me much of anything except the opportunity to take the next step, in and of itself it was pretty useless.

[wickerwoman]

3. Ditto.

I have two useless English degrees. Have I gotten nine years of my life and $135,000 worth of value out of them? Hell no. Sorry, I used to be a "learning for its own sake" cheerleader but the brutal truth is you can read novels at home (and actually enjoy them and probably get more out of them than you do when you're racing through them so you can pass your midterms). You would seriously have to be *insane* to take out student loans in this job climate for an English degree.

Take extension courses in the evening to "follow your passions". Get a degree in something that translates into a stable, regularly in-demand job with a living wage that will allow you to realistically pay off your debt. Anything else is setting yourself up for long term financial hardship or ruin.

[Mendocino]

8. My wife was an English Major.

Then she went for her Masters in Library Science and now has a good job. (Childrens Librarian)

[wickerwoman]

16. Right. Because she got a Masters degree in Library Science.

That's a degree with a clear career trajectory. If you want to be a librarian, study library science. If you want to be a journalist, study journalism. If you want to work in advertising, study communication. If you want to be a teacher, study education. If you want to be unemployed, or simply have no idea what you want, keep drifting along in English because as soon as you start looking for a job, you're going in line behind all the people with more specialized degrees and with 18% unemployment, no one is charming enough to get a job with an English major that would allow them to pay off tens of thousands of dollars of debt (short of family connections, but that's another matter).

The only place you're going with a higher degree in English these days is either on the bread line or teaching comp at a community college, grading papers 60 hours a week with no benefits or job security, making about $6 an hour (adjusted for class prep time and grading). Seriously, you'd be better off at Walmart. At least you wouldn't have the debt.

[Kat45]

18. I have an MS in journalism and it hasn't gotten me squat in the job market.

That followed a liberal arts education at an fairly elite university. I do believe in the value of a liberal arts education, just for the sake of the education, but with the ridiculously high expense these days I can understand people foregoing it. In recent years, the only jobs I've been able to get are administrative, which I equate with the secretarial jobs that used to be the jobs for the girls who didn't go to college (when I was younger). Now employers want a college degree for those jobs. But things are even worse now. In the current economy, I can't even get interviews for those jobs because there are too many people chasing too few jobs and I generally don't have the exact 'skill set' the employer wants. So I understand the current thinking regarding liberal arts colleges, but I don't think it's a good thing.

[Blue_Tires]

69. same here

had a few short stints in newspapers, but now so many have cut jobs i'm trying to break into PR now...

[Prometheus Bound]

23. If you want to be a journalist, don't study journalism.

Get a degree in a content subject so that you know something about one area at least, or get a liberal arts education so at least you have a broad education and something to say. Back the 90s I used to teach English and was Careers Master as well at my school, and in a visit to the Asian Wall Street Journal, just a short walk from my school, the editor of the paper told my students he would never hire a journalism major. He said as long as they had a broad education he could teach them all they needed to know about journalism in a very short time on the job.

If you want to be a teacher, don't study education. Again, major in a content subject and get a post-grad cert ed. You'll be much better prepared for a range of careers.

Majoring in English and post grad studies in Linguistics was the best career move I could have made though I didn't know it at the time.

[wickerwoman]

25. That's essentially what I'm saying.

Unless you're independently wealthy or for some other reason have no need to work after college or go into debt to afford it, you should major in something content-based with a clear relationship to an actual job you could realistically succeed at.

My college had a 5-year BA/MEd program where you double majored in education and your subject and got teaching certification and both degrees at the end of five years. Go for that if you really want to be a teacher (but honestly schools aren't hiring either and the pay doesn't justify 5 years in college). If you just major in English, you're getting in line (fairly or unfairly) behind all the MEds when you apply for jobs.

And I doubt the editor from the Asian WSJ, if he refused to hire journalism majors, would be much more excited about English majors, which was really my point. Like you say, major in a content subject that won't make lazy HR managers' eyes glaze over.

I think it's sad because a broad based liberal arts education is valuable. Just not $15,000 a year valuable. More like $2-3000.

If I was graduating high school today and didn't have an extremely clear idea of the job I wanted, I would spend a few years working and taking extension or community college classes until I did have confidence in a career plan. Whatever you do, don't take on debt and then drift through college waiting for your path in life to present itself to you. Unfortunately I think that's what happens to a lot of people with very generalized liberal arts and humanities majors and then when the bill comes due and they can't get a job that pays a living wage "learning for learning's sake" starts to look like a grotesque joke.

[Kalyke]

34. There isn't "journalism" degrees anymore

It's communications and I was always given a job in journalism with my degree.

Of course, I would never want to work for the Asian Wall Street Journal. If business newspapers truly don't want to hire people who are trained in newspaper writing, that may explain why most of them are so shitty.

[Prometheus Bound]

58. Maybe not in the US, but the US is not the world.

You must be right.

[tonysam]

40. "If you want to be a teacher, don't study education"

This is an utterly stupid statement. Teachers HAVE to major and get degrees in education to get licensed regardless of whether they are elementary or secondary. For those teaching secondary, they major in their field of study anyway and take their pedagogy classes.

If you are a licensed teacher, you can get work in other fields. It's a good thing because districts aren't hiring.

If you are going to talk about education degrees, at least know what in the hell you are talking about.

[Prometheus Bound]

57. I'm not in the US and I'm not American. I assumed you had PGCEs

like many other countries.

[krabigirl]

59. I was an English major and got a job as a web content manager.

It was always seen as an asset.

[CTyankee]

46. I had a fine arts and communications degree and while not directly applicable

to my jobs as Development Director and Major Gifts Officer for several nonprofit organizations, they did enhance my skills. The thing is, only recently have some universities started offering courses in how to raise money in the nonprofit world. It was something I just set out to learn because I wanted to work for causes I believed in. But it requires hands on experience to learn and no amount of class room time is going to change that.

However, I do now advise fundraising career aspirants to get a job while in college or right out of college to get a low level Development office job and work your way up. Higher Ed pays well, esp. at the Ivy League.

Having knowledge of the arts, BTW, was a real plus when it came to raising major gifts from rich donors, which is what I did for Planned Parenthood of CT. I could hold my own in discussions with them about art, music, literature...it was a good thing!

[Mendocino]

6. Are you a member of the

Professional Organization of English Majors (POEM)?

Garrison Kellior regularly mentions it.

[Book Lover]

26. Just because you failed to learn how to think critically with your "useless" English degree

doesn't mean that the degree is ipso facto useless. Just useless for you. Or, as I would put it, wasted on you.

[Happyhippychick]

27. If you want to invite a discussion, try not to be insulting. It might just work.

[lukasahero]

29. You might consider how insulting your original post was

to other people who received English degrees.

[Happyhippychick]

60. I don't see how it was.

[Book Lover]

39. Again, you demonstrate your lack of critical thinking skills

by assuming my point was to invite discussion.

[Happyhippychick]

61. Thanks asshole. I get it now.

[Book Lover]

66. You're welcome, dear

[Blue_Tires]

70. +1000

and I should add IMO it's not that the english degree itself is useless by default; it's just that there are SO, SO many of us out there...if i could do it over again i'd definitely major in something (unique but in demand) i could convert into a fat paycheck and follow my passions in my spare time...

ugh... at the bare minimum I should have used my college years to become dead solid fluent in 2 languages...that would have opened a lot more doors...

[no_hypocrisy]

4. I was a music major at Sweet Briar College, all women liberal arts college.

I also took three foreign languages, art history, theater history, history of europe (1200-1970s), science, photography, literature, writing, and other courses. I also did an independent study that concluded in a thesis and defense of it as well as a clarinet recital within 3 weeks of each other.

With my experience, I gained research skills, the ability to speak out and participate in class, to work independently, and leadership skills.

I went on to get a masters in elementary school education (certified teacher) and later a J.D. and a law degree (certified attorney).

I couldn't have achieved half of what I have without the fundamentals of learning how to listen and how to think. Liberal arts curriculum offers you the disciplines that focused programs like business can't provide. And it still comes down to it's all up to you what you want to do with what you've been given.

[niyad]

19. so many people these days don't actually get the point of a liberal arts education. thank you.

[CTyankee]

47. Plus, the ability to use the English language in written and spoken form.

I don't think, tho, that originally the liberal arts degrees were meant for a more democratic, highly technological society. Most college degrees back in the old days were only for a chosen few. Other people had wider choices in the labor type jobs, not requiring the same skills as those who had the liberal arts degree possessed upon graduation.

There is much more of a demarcation in European countries than here. Not everyone expects to go to University...

[FLAprogressive]

5. it's just so expensive to go to "X College" and get a worthless degree these days....

[1]

9. how can a "history of consciousness" degree be worthless?

[FLAprogressive]

10. is that sarcasm?

[1]

12. no, a question. see this thing --> "?" it indicates a question. you must have missed that day...

in liberal arts school.

[FLAprogressive]

14. I wasn't sure if your question was rhetorical or not.

sheesh.

[1]

15. i looked in the smilies table for the "dripping rhetorical" image. i couldn't find it...

[Brickbat]

7. I think it's possible to provide a liberal arts education without charging $45K a year, which is

what my alma mater currently charges. I don't think it's worth that at all. I think higher education is going to be the next big meltdown like real estate was -- these skyrocketing tuitions can't be supported forever.

[FLAprogressive]

11. There are a lot of public liberal arts colleges for people who really want the degree but don't want

to pay an arm and a leg for it. I think that's the best optionl....

[NashVegas]

13. Modern Higher Education Is Merely White Collar Vocational Training, Now

Izod, too.

Young people are being trained to zero in on specific career paths as young as 7th grade!

Meanwhile, Chip Wasphouse IV isn't taking an IT major, or New Media Journalism, or whatever hyper-specialized degree is out there. Chip is majoring in Economics or pre-Law. Something nice and broad that he can later tack a Masters onto, if needed.

[Shanti Mama]

17. My liberal arts education is one of the keys to my unusual and

very interesting life. The other was my upbringing. Granted, it was a whole lot less expensive when I graduated, in 1975. I helped pay for it and have never looked back. I'm so glad i didn't focus in on a trade/career/profession at that time in my life. I don't know if the expense was worth it in the amount I've earned over the years but it was invaluable in absolute terms.

My dad went to law school (GI Bill) and never practiced law. He said it was the best thing he ever did because it drew out of him his innate critical thinking skills, etc.

I believe in liberal arts education but there has to be a way to bring costs down. By the way, many liberal arts colleges have needs-blind admission and then help you figure out how to afford it. I've also read a bit about how the entire system of higher education will transform because of technology. Not just liberal arts colleges. In fact, maybe it's the more focused programs that will transform first. Anytime you don't need class discussion face to face, technology can fill in. Those 500 person lecture halls may be a thing of the past within 10 years.

[anonymous171]

20. Higher Education should be made free and available to all. nt

[Hardrada]

21. I found my Liberal Arts training to be useful in my writing &

especially in research and use of Latin and German. I am able to go book buying in Berlin for instance. My actual work, used and rare bookseller, has been immensely helped by my study of the humanities and theology. I just got to know in detail what books are valued and recommended by professors I admired and that's not something you can pick up on Amazon. I continue to do some rather innovative research. Of course it also helps that my wife has a good job and that we inherited a farm (which we rent).

[elleng]

22. Multicultural Critical Theory. At B-School?

“I think there’s a feeling that people need to sharpen their thinking skills, whether it’s questioning assumptions, or looking at problems from multiple points of view,” says David A. Garvin, a Harvard Business School professor who is co-author with Srikant M. Datar and Patrick G. Cullen of an upcoming book, “Rethinking the M.B.A.: Business Education at a Crossroads.”

Learning how to think critically — how to imaginatively frame questions and consider multiple perspectives — has historically been associated with a liberal arts education, not a business school curriculum, so this change represents something of a tectonic shift for business school leaders. Mr. Martin even describes his goal as a kind of “liberal arts M.B.A.”

“The liberal arts desire,” he says, is to produce “holistic thinkers who think broadly and make these important moral decisions. I have the same goal.”

Ever since 1959, when two influential studies by the Ford and Carnegie Foundations chastised business schools as being too vocational, most M.B.A. programs have taken anything but a broad approach to their subject matter.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/10/business/10mba.html?hpw

[aikoaiko]

24. Good article. At least the liberal arts lives on in core or gen ed requirements.

As a college professor in the College of Science, I often get questions from students about why they need to take those classes and I always say the same thing, "You'll need it later in life".

While it is sad to see liberal arts degrees be limited or closed, we academics have to take some responsibility for churning out BAs with little chance of getting a job. I work at a state school where tuition is cheap and many student qualify for free tuition based on merit, but still.

[surrealAmerican]

28. The problem here is that the value of a liberal arts education ...

... is not a monetary value, but it costs so much money that potential students can't quantify its value in any other way. The universities have priced themselves out of anything that doesn't guarantee an income after graduation that can pay back the loans that students used to pay for their educations.

[NashVegas]

32. True

And there's a tremendous conflict in the core of arts and other types of educations: art holds onto its ideals. Humanities hold onto their ideals. Business? Only ideal there is to make money. Tech? Only ideal there is to help business make money, at the bottom line.

[lukasahero]

30. I graduated with a BA (music and english) from a state school

I get a kick out of reminding my cubemate when he goes on about graduating with his engineering degree from MIT that we are doing the same job for the same company at the same rate of pay. Hmmm...

[Kalyke]

31. What can one do with a liberal arts degree?

Seriously... I'm not trying to be obtuse or sarcastic.

Maybe I don't understand because at my alma mater, liberal arts was for those who didn't know what they wanted to be. Want to be a teacher? Get a degree in education. Want to be a reporter or public relations expert? Get a degree in communications. Banking, marketing, management? Business degree.

I must not understand why waning liberal arts degrees are a bad thing.

[QC]

33. Think. Analyze. Communicate.

Skills that our ruling class doesn't really want the little people to have, if you think about it.

[Kalyke]

35. I got those same skills with a communications degree, though.

If I hadn't, I would be a Republican, wouldn't I. ;)

[AngryAmish]

36. Why are there English degrees?

When I say English I mean literature. Reading novels is a recreational activity. At times profound and life changing but at it's core it is recreation.

Why get a degree in something that is recreation? For example one may enjoy masturbating to pornography. Why does pornography not get a phd program at every university? Can you get a degree in bowling?

People do go on to have useful lives despite their liberal arts degrees. My wife has a career despite her theater and philosophy double major - but that was kinda on accident.

[JCMach1]

51. Recreation? Hardly, English saved me from a life of poverty...

BA in English,History and Social Science (triple major), MA in English and did my Ph.D. work in English as well

my work for my final degree focused on Composition/Rhetoric and ESL...

I was a poor kid from a poor family who was able to get enough government support to work my way through liberal arts... I even did the TA train at the end of my career...

I have done/worked as a museum guide, history teacher, Professor, Director of a Writing Center... I have done everything from publishing poetry to statistical research... Hell, I have even run campaigns and ran myself for public office...

Currently, I work as a University Director for Academic Achievement. Rather ironically, I am the guy who gets to decide when all of those good engineering and business majors have officially flunked-out!

I couldn't have done most of those things without the versatility given me by my liberal education. If anything, I often find my colleagues who are practitioners of what I would loosely term, 'the simple sciences', to be experts in areas that are so myopic that they can't see the forest for the trees.

While a liberal education is not the only answer, it rescued me from the depths of poverty.

I was poor, I hated High School until I found one teacher who introduced me to a love of writing and literature. I have never stepped-out of the worlds those experiences gave me...

Too bad one of the reactions I have seen here on this thread automatically make the anti-intellectual and capitalist move. English is not recreation... it's not part of some perceived market. IT is not a commodity. It is a way to understand, analyze and communicate concerning one of those things we intend to take for granted: language. If anything, the capitalist marketplace DOESN'T want you to do those things I just related. Forget critical thinking! The ideal for them is the passive consumer of texts whatever form they take. And THAT above all is just plain ANTI-DEMOCRATIC. Sure let's kill liberal arts in the U.S. and just see how quickly we become a right-wing fascist state (ummmmmm, maybe I 'm too late with that one).

That some here on DU are downing liberal education seriously makes me worried for my country...

[AngryAmish]

54. Because the only critical thinkers are english majors, huh?

Reading novels is something people do for fun. I would like to have a job where I could read books all day. I don't. I read them for fun.

Honestly, why is there not a pornography major? What makes literature special?

[JCMach1]

67. My emphasis was the same as the OP- Liberal Education

If you think English professors read books all day, I don't think you have much insight into higher education.

[bevoette]

37. my liberal arts degree has served me EXTREMELY well - i'm an IT director

the fact that i'm not a techno-geek (meant affectionately) but working in the techno field has worked out perfectly in my career and workplace.

the world needs analytical and thinking skills just as much as programming skills :)

[LearnedHand]

38. BA in Music, MA in Professional Writing

And I also am in IT (although I'm not a director). I'm technically very savvy and have my fingers in dozens of interesting projects --- both as a communicator and in technical planning and support. I'm deeply involved in ISO 9000-related activities and ITIL planning. I've NEVER regretted getting a liberal arts degree.

[FreeJoe]

63. I'm an IT geek

I always have been. I got a comp sci degree many, many years ago.

During my IT career, I've worked with many very good, very well paid developers, analysts and project managers that have had degrees in history, geography, sociology, journalism, and other non-tech subjects. In many places I've been, a college degree is a requirement, but not with any particular subject in mind.

From what I've seen, degrees are often required because it is so hard to evaluate young people. You essentially can't give them IQ tests anymore. A four year degree provides you with lots of information. It says that a person can deal with a bureaucracy. It says that they have enough personal management skills to get through four years of college. Their transcripts reveal what subjects they chose to take. They also reveal how well they did in an academic environment. What they actually learned is often secondary to the credential and artifacts.

[tonysam]

41. The fact is college is being used as the new union card

No more is a college education something that makes people more well-rounded individuals; it's preparation for a career, especially those that no longer exist or those that have a glut (teaching, law).

A college degree is no substitute for a union card. The vast majority of jobs in this economy don't require anything beyond high school apart from training on the job.

[Nikia]

42. I think that in thge past liberal arts degrees were more valued by employers

I am not sure if this is just because there are more people who have Bachelor's degrees or because of a fundamental change in values. Employers seem to want cookie cutter candidates now. On a related note, over the past 20 years, Americans are increasingly unhappy about their work. Humans are generalists by nature, but there isn't much room for career changers in today's economy. For many, the only way to change careers is to get a highly specialized vocation degree at a community college even if they have higher degrees and years of work experience in a related area.

[The Midway Rebel]

43. The broader the base, the taller the tower.

That is is what I learned about the importance of my liberal arts education. My liberal arts education as informed and enlightened my pursuit of happiness. Thomas Jefferson would be proud.

However, I agree with the premise of the article: A college degree is no longer a dependable ticket to a middle-class lifestyle.

At least I have learned to pursue happiness with a lot less money.

[rantormusing]

44. What has changed in the last 10 to 20 years that prompts this discussion?

Maybe it's just me, but this Liberal Arts is crap memo seems new. Now why would that be?

First off all, there's the degree, and what you do with it. I know i was told a zillion times in my learning years, that besides book learning you needed to do something. You know all those activities you're suppose to do to get into college? Well once in college, you don't stop, they just go on your resume, it's a beginning. Now, i know a lot of people want to look down on that person who has a liberal arts degree, despite what they may have accomplished, it's much easier than thinking beyond the veil of what's presented on the news. If you want to be able to read, and understand their motives, if you want to hear a person speak, and know what they are really saying, a liberal arts degree will help.

This topic is just an excuse to look down on a person, sorry if you're so angry, but don't take it out on me. It's another way to blame the victim, and move on without applying those critical thinking skills. How envious it looks, to never wonder what's wrong. THey must have done something to deserve it. That's the way it is, now i can go to bed at night, and not feel bad they are being punished. It's not the job market. It's not our hollowed out society that can't concentrate on an idea for five minutes without dismissing it, and looking for something else to watch. We must constantly stand vigilant for those we can discard. Nope not another word, they picked a useless degree. The tv and magazines told me so.

It's always the dull and unimaginative who spout this line, if you notice.

[QC]

45. "It's always the dull and unimaginative who spout this line...."

Excellent point, and notice how well represented they are in this thread.

[rantormusing]

55. It isn't only liberal art graduates who are getting the dirty treatment.

But i see the talking down on such sites as FR and Reason all the time.

[Romulox]

71. That's garbage. I enjoyed every moment of my undergrad experience.

It's just that it almost ruined me financially while providing me with no specific job skills whatever.

[wickerwoman]

52. Spend 2 years unemployed,

lose your job, your house, all your disposable income, any way to care for the people you love when they get sick. Spend 2 years searching for pennies in the sofa so you can eat. Send out 900 personalized CVs and cover letters a year without a single interview invitation. Apply for jobs you could have gotten in high school and be ignored because you're over-educated or too old or they assume you'll quit as soon as you find something better. Get back to me with your "dull and unimaginative" bullshit. Nobody on this thread is making it personal except you.

Yes there's a crappy economy. But there are always crappy economies. And getting a very broad liberal arts degree exposes you to a lot of risk in those economies. You can put a lot of heavy stuff on narrow shelves over your bed and then blame the earthquake when you're injured, or you can use a little foresight.

And nobody said "the liberal arts is crap". The argument is "don't go into debt for a liberal arts degree" or "liberal arts degrees are overpriced." That's not looking down on anyone. It's taking a lesson very hard learned and trying to give honest advice to others so they can avoid the same mistake.

I majored in liberal arts (double major in English and Classics, minor in Philosophy, masters degree in English). I'm glad I read all those books. I don't think I got $135,000 worth of value out of taking classes while I did it. I could have gotten the same benefit for a fraction of the cost reading the books on my own or taking extension or community college classes for 1/4 of the price. If you disagree at least disagree about that. That's the point. See... nobody needs to get nasty or personal about it.

[rantormusing]

53. 18 y/o's are the king of foresight

Forget the article for a minute, my comment wasn't directed at that piece. The things you mentioned in your first paragraph, those apply to more people than just struggling liberal arts graduates. Former mill workers, teachers, tech workers, computer science grads, and the list goes on, my point is that those who are pointing at liberal arts majors, and saying, "It's your fault," are the ones who are wrong. Or lacking critical thinking skills etc etc, people are being tossed and thrown away, it's not new, but i think it's gearing up.

Some go on to say, well those autoworkers, millworkers, and those who are over 40 facing long term unemployment, they brought it on themselves for not having any other marketable skills.

Blah, my point is, people who graduated with a degree in Liberal Arts haven't done anything wrong. Unless they have nothing to put on their resume, which can happen to any graduate. Those who say, it's only those liberal art majors who are useless and unemployed, are both ignorant and wrong.

I have a liberal arts degree, and a job that i love 70% of the time. I make a difference everyday for people who have no one else. Everywhere I've worked, I've been thought of as a valued employee. I hear all the time, you can do so much more than work with people with developmental disabilities. Maybe i should tell them they're wrong, because since i have a liberal arts degree I'm a slacker who never worked hard.

If people are going to look at what i studied instead of my accomplishments, then they can take a flying leap. My heart goes out to a lot of people right now who are struggling to find employment after months upon months of searching only to find that being longterm unemployed only gives them another stereotype to overcome.

As for the dull and unimaginative line, shrugs, I've seen plenty of dubious people who spout off on the "stupidity" of getting a liberal arts degree. Especially on faux right wing sites. It's another way to blame the victim without looking any further than your own prejudices.

[bridgit]

48. The vast, pendulous majority of Americans simply do not care...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=myq8upzJDJc And the vast majority of them are dithered :dilemma: between art as an American Quilt for endless rehabilitating bush/Cheney/MIC combat veterans, beaded crocheted/macramed tea cozys, pot holders and plant hangers, a field full of early corn able to pay off that dual-ie, a Hummer and a yacht and up front tickets to a Toby Keith concert - and until that image improves,

America will not be able to Sham-Wow it's own Art Ass in the dark with both hands and an Energizer Bunny


The upside, however, is that I still use my degree in my field though not always in ways I thought that I would. Fortunately, if anything is conveyed by a liberal arts education it is to apply an open mind assuming you have one. Which was why I thought it best to put it together as a double major in performance, yes; but theater admin, production design, etc, that flowed into consulting stuff and was able to meet-up with the staging/positioning of a whole host of other artful disciplines

Our friends and associates are largely comprised of performance & visual artists. Some of them work as accountants. Some are civil engineers. One comes to mind: a light opera singer - commanding voice & range - that verifies federal HC options, compliance/satisfaction, payments/benefits/service data for California and four other western states so you know he's busy, but his heart is stitched with liberal arts

We were all at a combo Birthday/New Years Party just the other day and I found hubby in the kitchen talking with a friend about her student load, off campus (a sizable number of symph musicians are able to round out their fiscals by teaching - and this can be an area first impacted); as to whether she had experienced any flattening in interest or activity. She asked for some clarification, but soon she was following the sine waves he was making with his fingers and she agreed: that what she had experienced was more like a paring down of interest, and not a falling away

My husband confirmed by saying his folks sold the family piano to help pay for his dad's gaul bladder operation

I think the short of if is that however grand and art-filled our visions of ourselves may justifiably be...we cannot all be Van Cliburn, Yo-Yo Ma, or Andy Warhol - but even that does not mean that we are not able to incorporate our 'fall back' position into our liberal arts http://www.artcenter.edu/accd/programs/graduate/industrial_design.jsp

[Merchant Marine]

49. I was ready to go to a liberal arts school...

Until I talked to the students there and realized I'd be living with my parents after four years.

So now I'm in the deck program at the California Maritime Academy. I graduate in 2012 with a 3rd Mate's License, a BS in Marine Transportation and a shiny new Masters Mates and Pilots union card. Starting salaries for a new 3rd Mate range from 50k to 70k. Thankfully the US Merchant Marine has weathered the downturn on government supply contracts and is still a bastion of the old middle class.

[bridgit]

50. The Maritime Academy in Vallejo? We like it there, our friend in Napa Symph

plays in your auditorium sometimes B-)

[XemaSab]

56. Here's the value of an English degree

My mom (BA Berkeley, 1970) has a degree in English.

She works in environmental consulting editing all the illiterate crap written by science majors who can't write worth two cents. :P

[krabigirl]

62. My English degree has always been seen as an asset at any job interview.

I don't get it. Then again, I had web skills back in the 90s when I got out of school, so I guess that along with the Engish degree helped me get many jobs, as employers wanted someone to work on their site and edit the content. I've never had a problem. I always thought business degrees sounded depressing.

[Sparkly]

64. My liberal arts degree was invaluable.

Perhaps it was especially important because I went to a truly horrible high school. (And jr. high, and elementary.)

In college I really learned to think, work like crazy, and write. I developed a lot of skills and learned a lot of information, but I think the most important part was learning to think about new things, in new ways.

(Edited to add: I have never been "marketable" beyond a narrow field, though.)

[Lydia Leftcoast]

65. The problem isn't the liberal arts degree per se--it's employers' attitudes

I majored in German and minored in French and English, studied intensive Japanese, got a Ph. D. in Linguistics with a concentration in Japanese, taught Japanese on the college level for eleven years, and now work as a a self-employed translator.

I came out of grad school in 1982, when the economy was almost as bad as it is now. There were exactly four college teaching jobs in the whole country for people with my skills. Four.

So I moved back to Minneapolis and started doing informational interviews with every major corporation in the Twin Cities (and that's a lot of corporations). All of them were multinationals, all of them traded in Asia, and I thought that I could make a contribution with my knowledge of Japanese, experience living in Japan, and knowledge of basic Chinese.

Wrong. Everyone I talked to (mostly middle managers) was a liberal arts major. I talked to music majors, English majors, math majors, history majors, and philosophy majors. All of them had been hired right out of college and trained by their companies. However, all of them said that in the past year or so, their HR departments had received instructions not to consider anyone who didn't have a business or computer science degree, preferably an MBA. The company wanted to minimize its in-house training.

At the same time, federal sources of college financial aid were drying up--except for ROTC scholarships.

I'm convinced that there was a method in this madness. It was the Reagan administration, you'll remember.

As I saw while teaching on campuses that had ROTC, the program indoctrinates cadets into neocon ideology.

Meanwhile, if the majority of the students are majoring in some aspect of business, they are likely being indoctrinated into Friedman-style economic views.

They have no intellectual background to evaluate what they are being taught.

It's not inconceivable that America's so-called "shift to the right" is due not only to right-wing control of the media but also to thirty years of having 50% or more of college students studying business.

[bridgit]

72. ^

[Romulox]

68. English Degree from a top 25 land grant college not worth the paper its printed on, imo. nt