Did Unemployed Minoan Artists Land Jobs in Ancient Egypt?

[Adsos Letter]

Source: Heritage Key

One of the most perplexing mysteries that Egyptologists and Aegean experts are tackling is that of the frescoes of Tell el-Dab'a, also known as Avaris.

This site was used as the capital of the Hyksos, at a time when they ruled much of Egypt, from 1640 – 1530 BC. It is on the Nile Delta and would have provided access to the Sinai, Levant and southern Egypt.

The site appears to have been abandoned for a time after the Hyksos were driven out. However, by the end of the 18th dynasty (when the Egyptians were back in control of their land), the site was in use and sported with three – yes three – large palaces. They were ringed by an enclosure wall. The whole complex was about 5.5 hectares in size.

Now here’s the mystery –
Two of those palaces were decorated, for a very short period of time, with Minoan frescoes. These include drawings of bull-leaping scenes – which are well known from the Palace of Knossos in Crete.

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[baldguy]

1. Plenty of H1-Bs to go around, I guess.

Bet the local trade unions weren't too pleased, though.

[AnnieBW]

2. Illegal Aliens

The problem goes back farther than you think.

[Warpy]

3. Once Santorini blew up, they landed everywhere

in the Mediterranean. They'd had plenty of warning and had fled the island, and, if they were really smart, had found places on high ground or inland.

It's certainly not out of the question, in other words.

[aquart]

7. Depends on the question.

[alfredo]

9. If any of them were near the volcano when it blew, I'm sure they

landed all over the Mediterranean.

[aquart]

13. I've been running all over the internet trying to get details.

The biggie is that they originally thought the Minoan stuff was from the Hyksos period, and now they think it's all 18th dynasty.

What I can't tell is whether the Avaris fresco predates the one at Knossos. But heads are exploding all over. Aegean dating has always waited on the Egyptian chronology and this may finally knock some sense into that calendar of wishful thinking.

[alfredo]

14. The presence of Minoan Art in early Egypt could point more to fashion

than politics, or natural disaster.


18th dynasty art found in early 20th century New York puzzles archeologist. Though there are some stylistic differences, the influence is quite evident.

[aquart]

15. Fashion would mean we'd see it in other places.

We see the full eye. We see it even when the face is in profile. That's a common "fashion" between the cultures. But we have three palaces in one...fortress (?) military area and TWO of the palaces feature Minoan art. Obvious, easily identifiable, unquestionable Minoan art. That had nothing to do with fashion. It had everything to do with who lived there.

Fashion didn't work then the way it works now, btw. For one thing, the cultures weren't disposable like ours. Garments weren't worn a few times and tossed away. They were all handmade, handwoven, handsewn...if a fine fabric was imported, the cost made it an heirloom, to be worn for generations. If something broke or tore, it was mended.

And art on the wall was meant to last the life of the house, which is why we keep digging it up. And also why the archaeologists are so curious about the impermanence of the Minoan work in Avaris.

Meanwhile, the explanation for Sudanese soldiers is not flying with me.

[alfredo]

16. Fashion runs in cliques too. Maybe only a few could afford those

foreign artisans. Actually I like the belief they were for visiting dignitaries, and other ceremonial uses like trade negotiations, or political/diplomatic marriages. The Egyptians could have contracted Minoan artist to make a bit of home away from home for their special guest.*

In Ethiopian art you never see profiles. I see no overlap of styles there, even though there was a close relationship between Egypt and Ethiopia (Punt) that lasted millenniums.
Sudan (Nubia) was the center of the Ethiopian/Egyptian empire. Not sure of the timeline but the Axumites ruled Egypt for a while.










* When I was in Asmara, some locals invited me to a movie with them. It was "Rebel Without a Cause." They wanted me to have a bit of home away from home.

What was the Sudanese soldier story.

[aquart]

17. Whereas Meroe went whole hog Egyptian.

Unless it was the other way around. Egyptian statuary and Greek kore have a lot in common, too. Heavy links in Mediterranean cultures.

Really not sure about the point you're making. Artists didn't have the mobility you're assuming. And it was a local protected craft. People did NOT let those jobs go to strangers.

[alfredo]

21. If the society is going down the tubes and the leaders

begin losing their hold on power, brain drains are inevitable.

[aquart]

23. You keep thinking that world was this world.

BUT IT WASN'T. Artisans left home when they were captured by foreign armies and delivered as gifts to the king. At which point they were SLAVES.

In some places, the household was slaughtered when the ruler died. Egypt didn't do that. They put substitute figurines in the tombs. It's possible Minoan artists could travel freely within the Minoan empire, from Minoan city to Minoan city. But to a foreign city? With no relatives or friends? A strange language and customs?

If you've ever read a Shakespeare play you'd know how dangerous it was to venture into a foreign land without retinue and protection. No cell phones or GPS. It was EASY to disappear without a trace.

People didn't worry about their brains draining. They worried about EATING. The reason the Bible talks about the Good Samaritain is that it was HIGHLY UNUSUAL for anyone to give a crap about a stranger.

[alfredo]

24. If there was relations between the Minoans and Egyptians,

they could have valued the work of Minoan artist, and raided the faltering island of its artist and other craftsmen.

I am aware of the dangers because I lived and travelled in areas as you described.

[dugaresa]

22. Minoan art forms have a touch of the ancient persian/sumerian influence

in the style of the hair, etc. so there is probably something to be said for what was the "fashion of the day" and port cities would be more heavily influenced than any others.


my comment is based on what i see in the art forms, from my point of view

[ashling]

4. One theory is that the Pharoa's allied with Minoans to

keep Hyksos off balance and protect Egypt from threat from the sea

[aquart]

8. Link?

Because I would really need to see that argument laid out. On account of my thinking the Hyksos were the pharaohs at the time the Hyksos were a problem.

[ashling]

11. I think I heard it on the History channel

sorry, no link

[Bucky]

19. I thought they only did shows about pawn shops and Alaskan truckers

But it'd be cool to hear if they're branching out into actual history shows...

[ashling]

20. Ocassionally they will do one

There is a good bit of Egyptology, etc. and Hebrew Archaeology

[M155Y_A1CH]

5. May indicate larger international relationships

Maybe it was some kind of embassy or summer home decorated to make visitors from abroad feel at home?
If tradesmen then why not rich men?

[aquart]

6. Except for one thing.

Egyptians, Romans, Minoans, decorated their homes, tombs, and palaces with scenes from their own lives. Or their own mythology. You might see a motif picked up from another country...but you wouldn't see an activity only practiced elsewhere.

If there were Minoan activities on those walls, then a homesick Minoan was living there.

And that nonsense about "tightly controlled" royal images....for which she has not a shred of proof...like I said...if one palace specialized in bull dancing...why would another palace want that on its walls? They would put THEIR specialty, THEIR glory, not someone else's.

Then there's the question of how a foreign painter gets access to a palace when crafts professions are protected and handed down father to son.

Royalty comes with an entourage, including artists, musicians, craftsmen. Why was Minoan royalty in Egypt?

[Larkspur]

10. Minoans and Eqyptians had trade ties that predated the Thera eruption

so its possible that the Minoans may have had an embassy or some type of property to house their diplomats and top merchants in Egyptian territory. Or maybe out of a spirit of fostering better trade relations, the Minoans offered Egypt some of their artisans or an artisan exchange programs was setup between the two nations.

[aquart]

12. Oh, I don't think so.

Yes, maybe, about an embassy but as two of three palaces in that location? I'm surprised the Egyptians didn't sow salt in that ground. (I'd like to know about the art in the third palace.)

And artisans were valuable property and worth good money. At least to, say, the Babylonians. It is possible to imagine one being sent as a gift, but it still means running into pissed off local talent. It really wasn't a safe thing to do.

For their own safety, the Minoan artisans would want to be part of a Minoan entourage, not alone in a strange land at the mercy of strangers. And far from family and friends.

If the art was there, the people who paid for the art were there, and they would have been Minoan, and, if it's true about bull-dancing being only at Knossos, then the chance is these people were from there.

About the bull-dancing being found only at Knossos....we don't exactly have every nook and cranny from the Minoan civilization. For all we know there were ten other palaces that went nuts for bull pictures. For instance, THIS one.

Meantime, I want to know EXACTLY how this work was dated. Egyptologists like to pretend their dates are set in stone, but if people realized that they settled some dating disputes BY SPLITTING THE DIFFERENCE, they'd begin to get an idea how wildly unscientific those dates are.

[JCMach1]

18. Cross-Pollination of culture...

Was just in Greece a few weeks back... Just go back and look at the Greek and Minoan art... Flip the question around and you will find lots of Egyptian and Asian influences.