For the unemployed, new job often means a pay cut

[cory777]

Source: Associated Press

By CHRISTOPHER LEONARD
Associated Press Writer

Unemployed for nearly a year, David Becker was relieved to land a new job in information technology last summer.

The offer carried a price, though: It was a lower-rung job than the one Becker had lost. He had to uproot his family from Wisconsin to Nevada. And, like many formerly jobless people who find work these days, Becker is now paid far less than before - $25,000 less.

It's one of the bleak realities of the economic recovery: Even as more employers are starting to hire, the new jobs typically pay less than the ones that were lost.

In the government's data, a job is a job. More jobs point to a growing economy. But to people who used to earn $60,000, a new $40,000 job means they'll spend less - and contribute less to the recovery



Read more: http://www.kansascity.com/438/story/1673274.html

[BeatleBoot]

1. The result of 30 years of Reaganomics

[Name removed]

2. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[BeatleBoot]

4. I stand by my statement.

[boppers]

5. 1. Welcome to DU.

2. "the result of 30 years of high taxes on business" and "Corporations don't pay tax" are a tad contradictory, considering the amount of incorporated businesses.

[PSPS]

13. You're mistaken

Maybe you just stopped by on your way to the pizza place, but your facts are wrong.

1. Business taxes contribute the smallest percentage of national taxes in modern history.

2. The country's economy was its strongest when the top marginal tax rate was 70% and higher.

Without a doubt, the devolution of the country began with Reagan.

[flyingfysh]

17. Baloney. Taxes here are lower than in Europe

But Europeans get something for their tax money: They don't have to worry about bankrupcy because of illness, and do not have to worry about medical care. And in some, college tuition is free.

[midnight armadillo]

22. Hey we get something for our taxes too. The best guns & bombs money can buy!

Imagine what we could afford to do if we spent a mere $350 billion annually on the military-industrial complex.

[Bigmack]

25. Expensive toys with no mission....

for the most part, too.

Apparently the drone strikes in Af/Pak have a 40% "collateral damage" rate.

Not only is military spending huge... it's spectacularly useless in "defending" us, too. The military has been bogged down in one country with no army, and another country without a country, fer crissakes!

[Bigmack]

19. Bullshit....

[Dappleganger]

21. Ah, facts...

:kick:

[fasttense]

30. Your statement is confusing.

You claim taxes are what has caused the problem of getting decent jobs that pay well in this country. Explain.

Just because something is taxed does not mean it stops or goes away. If that were the case, every piece of land in this country would go away because of local property taxes. These property taxes were some of the 1st taxes ever levied by government (usually local) going back to 1800.

In your subject line you claim 30 years of high taxes on business, but then you state that people pay taxes not businesses or corporations. So, which is it? Taxes on business bad or no taxes on business bad?

And then there is your statement that we have had 30 years of high taxes. You do realize taxes on the uber wealthy were as high as 90% before Ronnie Raygun? Didn't our economy do just fine before the dunder head Raygun came along? From 1950 to the 1970s we were the manufacturing engine of the world and yet the uber wealthy and corporations paid out twice what they do today in taxes.

And you are absolutely wrong. Corporations do pay taxes. Corporate tax (or corporation tax) refers to a tax levied by various jurisdictions on the profits made by companies or associations. It is a tax on the value of the corporation’s profits. The general global trend of national corporate taxation is down-wards - In the last ten years average rates fell from 35.0% to 26.30%.


Yes, corporations do pay taxes, it's just that it's not very much.

[inna]

8. what is the message you're trying to make with your sig?

pretty lame and not funny at all, if you ask me.

[boppers]

3. How can he manage on 125K a year?

"Becker, 48, oversees fewer than a dozen employees, compared with the 60 he managed before the recession when he earned $25,000 more, or $150,000."

Poor guy, how can he still afford 3 cars and a summer house on such meager wages?

[Missy Vixen]

15. It's probably more expensive for him to live in Nevada than Wisconsin

I should also add that anywhere on the West Coast, $125,000 a year would make you somewhat comfortable. It's not a fortune.

After being out of work for eight months last year, my husband is working for half his previous salary in November, 2008. Let's say our lifestyle has undergone a radical change, and we weren't loaded before.

[sandnsea]

16. I've lived in the west all my life

I have never made over $50,000 a year and am just fine. $125,000 a year will put anybody on the path to wealth, provided they don't do something stupid with their money. If you've gone from $125,000 annual to $62,500 annual - you're still doing better than 80% of the country. Welcome to reality.

[boppers]

24. I've lived in AZ, AL, and now in OR.

$125,000 is a huge chunk of change in all three locations, unless one is used to buying all the latest toys and spending lots on optional expenses.

Even at $50,000, that's still a better wage than 75% of the country, so, yeah, it's a lot of dough.

I also work in IT, and what I've seen is a lot of "manager" types getting flushed, and replaced by "team leaders" and "team advocates", where middle management has been replaced by regular functionaries who now also have partial management roles. Scheduling work got automated, billing got automated, agile replaced a lot of planning and spec meetings, tickets and help desk got automated, in-line documentation replaced many meetings, etc. etc. etc,

The shift has been especially hard on the folks who stopped keeping up with the actual day-to-day work, and were spending all their times in meetings and making powerpoint presentations... they're no longer qualified in the current technology (as they weren't working in it, only directing those who were), and there's less of a demand for middle management types.

The hidden irony, of course, is that one of IT's usual roles is to increase efficiency, and thus decrease headcount.

[Missy Vixen]

26. Sandnsea, you have no idea of our situation

No, we weren't making $125,000 a year. It's the median income of our hometown, though.

Right now, we're making less than you are. Plus, we now have no health insurance, we're both over 40, and have pre-existing conditions.

"Welcome to reality"? Thanks for your support.

[sandnsea]

28. I didn't say I made that much now

I said I've never made more than that in my life. I make way less than half of that now. And the only reason I have insurance, with pre-existing conditions, is because my state provides subisidized insurance.

I've also never lived in a town with a median income of $125,000 or pretended there wasn't anywhere else to live or justified it as normal.

[Missy Vixen]

29. Well, gosh, thanks a lot

The median income is high here because 1. We're ten miles from Microsoft's main campus. 2. We bought in a rural area, home to several successful family-owned businesses. Our house was $50,000 less than anything else in the surrounding communities.

I get the general impression, though, that you're much more interested in judging and condemning than listening. It sounds like a long-term problem.

[Bigmack]

32. OT...

Vixen... we lived in that same area (Duvall) and left in '98 because we were being inundated by Microsofties and our rural lifestyle was going fast.

People like Sandandsea have no idea what happens to a little town when huge money comes in.

People like sandandsea appear to have no idea......

[fujiyama]

23. I don't think Nevada is particularly expensive, compared to CA especially

LV isn't exactly cheap, but I can't think of a city that has taken a bigger hit in terms of real estate.

CA is particularly bad, in particular anywhere in the Bay Area or the greater LA area. Homes are out of reach for the average person and the cost of living for other goods is pricey too (almost 10% sales tax with high income taxes as well).

Seattle is expensive as well and Portland is somewhat in the middle. OR isn't nearly as bad as CA and WA isn't really as bad outside of Seattle, but jobs are also more scarce outside the major metropolitan areas.

Ultimately $125,000 SHOULD assure a fairly comfortable lifestyle almost everywhere in this country. It is relative, but there is no reason a person making that much money should face real financial problems, unless he/she is supporting many people and has a lot of other expenses (often times being health care and education costs).

[Missy Vixen]

27. Not on either coast

$125K doesn't get much when the median price of a home (last year) in Western Washington was $400K, for instance. Those in the software industry live here or don't work. Before you tell us to retrain in another profession, you may want to bear in mind that everything is tanking, unless we'd like to enter the exciting world of debt collection.

No, thanks.

[boppers]

33. Stop trying to buy homes at that price, for one.

If you want to write software for health industries, it's batshit insane. Jobs can't be filled fast enough, and (as a result) they need experienced folks to herd the rush, and cull the slack.

That being said, I expect no pity for me making my paltry $50K a year, as I'm making more than 75% of the country. As far as you saying: "Those in the software industry live here or don't work.", I'm not sure what to make of it. Software is global, with jobs *everywhere*, silicon valley, silicon forest, the DFW sector, the beltway, the Brazil gigs, the Ireland gigs, the whole Israel game... are you MS only, without non-MS training?

[jmondine]

6. I am in the same boat

I am underemployed, making less than before, but hanging on to my current position like it was unobtanium.

[comtec]

31. So you're looking to invade a planet 6k Light years away to keep your job?

kidding!
I find the name of that material hilarious, because that's an old gaming term.
When the GM can't think of a name or wants to make a point it/s always 'ium
The unbreakable substance was often called Bullshitium 'round my friend's table.
And super rare minerals were Unobtanium :)

Sorry... back to serious matters!

When I moved here to europe (there were Z E R O jobs for me in the bay area. I was over or under qualified for everything, even a McJob!!!!!) I took a pay cut.

I'm making 35k €uros a year, I pay 30%+ in taxes, 19% sales tax, and my lifestyle is STILL better than when I was making more per year in the bay area!

Actually taxing corporations and enforcing taxc laws on those companies pays, and makes people's lives better over all.

The public transit system here is very reliable.
The roads (too narrow) are great, and smooth (it's a running joke here, you can tell when you enter Belgium by the roads)

The pay that we ITers make is drastically down from 10 year ago.
Partially that is just reality. What we do can be learned by many people, but to do it RIGHT takes real talent.

But the majority is simply slave labor in india. They can export call centers, and import workers (H1-B's) so why SHOULD they pay more. also with the market going POOF, there's even more incentive to under pay when possible.

it's simple greed, and base-encouraged human nature i'm afraid.

[LuckyTheDog]

7. Yep. I took a $29,000 pay cut...

After 11 months of unemplyment. I have no idea how I will dig out from the financial hole I am in.

[XemaSab]

9. I am making 1/3 of what I made before

x(

[Thor_MN]

10. I figure the Bush Economy has cost me well over $100,000 in wages alone

Add in the losses in my 401K and it's some serious money.

[LittleGirl]

14. about the same $$$ here too

still unemployed, still in debt and wondering when it will end.
I too expect a huge pay cut when I do get a job.

[lib2DaBone]

11. If you are lucky enough to have a job and keep the electric on..

you are truly fortunate.

I would be thankful just to have a job.. even if it was 50% below my last job.

NAFTA has been a success.. we are all busted to minium wage in a race to the bottom. (Conversly.. it is a race to the top for corporate profits)

[notadmblnd]

12. Of course. One of the major reasons for getting rid of Americans Jobs

is to reduce wages.

[TomCADem]

18. That Does Not Seem Consistent With Glenn Beck's Fears of Hyperinflation...

... as he touts gold as a hedge against inflation.

[Dappleganger]

20. Yes, dh is working at 70% of what he had a year ago with no benefits.

No job security either as it's contract work and he is renewed on a monthly basis, so basically we have to act as if he's going to be laid off again at any time.