"I can't imagine anybody under 100 years old using words negro

[nadinbrzezinski]

or colored... "

Michelle Bernard, on Hardball

Some of our pundits really need to get out more often.

I have heard people in their sixties, seventies, eighties using the term...

There is a CLEAR GENERATIONAL DIVIDE... JESUS AGE.

:banghead:

And yes, I do know people who use the term still... my wonderful AFRICAN AMERICAN neighbor, who just happens to be in his seventies and a veteran of the civil rights movement.

(Should have edited before)

[elleng]

1. You're not that young, are you, nadin(e)?

Its a BIG country, with LOTS of people with LOTS of ways. I'm fascinated by this, and learn from it. I'm sure you do, too.

E

[nadinbrzezinski]

7. Actually I am of the generation where Negro became a no go

But as I said in another thread I am a historian by training and the history of language is fascinating.

The word is archaic (harry reid should have known better), but for crying out loud even the Census bureau is using it still.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

18. well the question becomes how do you describe

a black person who is not from africa? or a caucasian person from africa that has immigrated to the US? 'black' is apparently not acceptable though it was...'negro' is not acceptable though it was...the census will classify them some way...how would you prefer they do it? i would prefer race not be a consideration...but most people think i am nuts there...

sP

[nadinbrzezinski]

20. I'd rather we moved away from all that

the census is using negro, African American and black right now. Their use of negro has led to a little kurfunkle with younger African Americans who should really listen to oh... I have a Dream Speech.

But if I could get a magic pill into the water, I'd make race or national origin a non-issue society wide. Reality is, that ain't gonna happen any time soon.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

30. i acknowledge that reality also...

but if the census will categorize...how SHOULD they? i guess, should we decide as a country what is the best way to refer to someone's race? i mean, i don't care for 'cracker' but some people would probably describe me that way. am i a white guy? caucasian? do we go with Meyers ethnographic classifications? I could go with being called 'Alpine'...

sP

[nadinbrzezinski]

31. The census is doing this intelligently

they are going wiht the MOST COMMON self description terms of what four generations, and also testing not using negro in 50K forms... in the hopes they can remove it by 2020.

But they are not the ones telling people how to call themselves...

[ProdigalJunkMail]

33. if it is on the form...the gov't IS telling you how to describe yourself

even if they give 'options'

[nadinbrzezinski]

39. After consulting with the communities

involved

As I said I'd rather we move away. This is not happening as long as this country exists I fear...

[Captain Hilts]

26. 'Black' IS acceptable to many...it carries no cultural assumptions. Same for 'white'.

Here in DC we have so many recent immigrants from Africa, the term 'African-American' just doesn't work very well.

Other folks don't like being hyphenated.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

32. but black offends some...heck, just about ANYTHING offends

SOMEONE...whatever to do?

sP

[Captain Hilts]

56. It's a problem, isn't it?

[Kahuna]

60. Exactly. nt

[Dorian Gray]

120. Does it?

I use black, and the majority of people I know who are black are quite comfortable with it. Only in formal writing would I use African-American, and only when referring to a black person born in the Americas.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

71. I almost never hear the term "African-American" in real life

it seems to be a "correct" term in public context - politicians' speeches, or TV anchors reading the teleprompters.

In conversation, the word "black" is normal, with no judgement attached. It's just descriptive. Same with "white".

Most of my conversations take place in and around Detroit, so may be regional usage.

The only times I hear the word "negro" is if I'm talking with someone who's pretty old. Harry Reid's age and beyond.

We aren't yet post-racial, but it's progress that we can have civilized conversation on the topic.

:hi:

[varelse]

100. What if you are biracial?

:shrug:

[ProdigalJunkMail]

118. a checkbox for multiracial should be there...certainly n/t

[Kahuna]

119. Exactly, Captian. These days, I prefer being called black, as I am not

from Africa. Neither are my parents, grandparents or great-grandparents.

[pnwmom]

66. And the Census bureau is using it because that's how some elderly self-identify.

[quiller4]

112. How does that help solve the problem that too few young minorities

complete census surveys? The return rate of senior Americans of all races is higher than the return rate of the under 30 crowd and the return rate of young Blacks is extremely low. The wording of the new census form will only make that return rate worse.

[pnwmom]

115. The new census form allows you to choose African-American, Black, or Negro.

Why would that be a problem?

[elleng]

70. As a 'casual' historian, I'd agree that it appears to be 'archaic' to many,

the Census Bureau is using it as of necessity. This suggests its not REALLY archaic.

[devilgrrl]

84. I remember never feeling comfortable with that word and it was still in wide use in the 70's

:-(

[CTyankee]

2. I remember LBJ using the term in the context of the civil rights legislation of the 60s.

So it's not THAT old...but "Afro-American" and then "African American" came into common usage...after "black" that is.

[Common Sense Party]

3. Out of curiosity, apropos of nothing, what word do they use in Mexico?

In Argentina, the use the word "negro."

But, there really aren't any blacks in Argentina.

[Dennis Donovan]

10. "negro" is literally "black" in Spanish...

...plus they don't have the horrid history that he US has in regards to race relations.

[Common Sense Party]

108. Perhaps not as bad as in the U.S., but don't kid yourself.

Racism is alive and well in Mexico, and has been since colonial days, if not earlier.

Still today, performers are still seen in blackface. Cartoonists ofen draw African as if they are monkeys. 10 million Indians are dead last in literacy, infant mortality, employment, etc.

[nadinbrzezinski]

12. Negro, but there is nowhere in paperwork the

where did you come from questions in census data either.

Or for that matter government data.

The whole... what are you asked on the way out of college in the US (for equal opportunity) was insulting to me.

[Common Sense Party]

110. Are you saying that official government documents in Mexico

never ask about race/ethnicity?

Wow. What would that be like?

Why do so many of OUR gov't forms ask about race?

[nadinbrzezinski]

113. No they don't

they dropped those with the 1917 Constitution

Now don't kid yourself, it may not be officially condoned, but racism is alive and well in Mexico.

And yes there are code words about this. I mean I am a guerita... a blond one... and that is just one of the many code words. My partner for years, well some of the guys called him Negro... and those were two extremes.

This code of color is part and parcel of colonial holdings and those who no longer are colonial holdings. We have that in common with a whole slew of ex colonies across the world.

And my favorite, sadly, predictor of how well a candidate will do for higher office in Mexico is... skin color.

[Common Sense Party]

116. After posting my question, I Googled around and found the 1990

Census form for Mexico. I couldn't believe there was nothing at all about race. The only thing even remotely related was "Do you speak an indigenous language"?

If only our census were that colorblind.

[Dennis Donovan]

4. The terms "Negro" and "colored" were part of the 'acceptible' lexicon until 40 yrs ago

...used by both Whites and African Americans. It's use today, however, isn't. If Harry Reid used such terminology 40 years ago, I'd give him a pass. However, his use of it in 2008 was, and is, unacceptable.:thumbsdown:

[izquierdista]

13. TIA?

Maybe the speech centers of his brain aren't working right. He has had an 'event', and maybe it occurred in that area, but he seemed to get a clean bill of health, so :shrug:.

[nadinbrzezinski]

16. I am not talking of Harry Reid

but Michelle Bernard, who is of a generation where indeed she probably never heard it used. She is what ten years younger than me?

She is the one that just made that statement on Hardball... why I went... kid, you need to get out, and go see grandma. Not being condescending, but younger kids really need to do that.

And as I said, Reid should have known better, and NOT used it. Politicos are 'posed to keep up with the lingo.

[Dennis Donovan]

57. I was born in the mid-60's, so I came of age during the time of the first "enlightenment"

...when you started to see more African Americans on TV, in print advertisements, and in politics. That said, I still remember hearing teachers (!) refer to African American students as "Negros" and "Colored Kids."

[csziggy]

99. Maybe it is her particular upbringing

Her family heritage is Jamaican American. Speaking of her family upbringing, in an interview with Bill Steigerwald, "My parents are American citizens, but they come from Jamaica. I was raised with very American and Jamaican values. In our culture, we have a very strong sense of pride and of family honor and of self-reliance."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michelle_Bernard

[nadinbrzezinski]

101. Jamaica is a post colonial country (just like the US in fact)

there is racism Jamaica too... it just takes different forms.

Perhaps she is not used to the word Negro... since that is part of US History in the worst (and best) way... but slavery is also part of Jamaican experience.

So for some reason I don't fully buy it, though it provides a partial explanation.

[csziggy]

102. I would imagine there is a different term that would push her parents' buttons

If not hers. She comes across as a child of privilege and so may not have been on the receiving end of a lot of the derogatory terms.

[nadinbrzezinski]

104. Exactly but the terms were similar during slavery times. Same folks controlled it

she also is younger than me, not by much, but those years make a huge difference in the experience level.

[Kahuna]

25. "Unacceptable?" To you. You don't speak for everyone. nt

[Dennis Donovan]

Nowhere in my statement did I claim to speak for anyone but myself...

With that out of the way, surely YOU don't condone the use of "negro" and "colored" to describe African-Americans, do you?:shrug:

[Kahuna]

59. Those words don't bother me. Personally, I prefer Afro-American. That was

good enough for me until Jesse Jackson decided otherwise. I've been called, a negro, colored, Afro American and now African American. They all mean the same damned thing so why have a hissy about it?

[Dennis Donovan]

64. You're in a minority...

...no pun intended, of course.;-) But, I know many who are offended because it harkens back to a time in which there was hatred behind the terms.

[nadinbrzezinski]

83. This brings me back to an anecdote from the classroom

was a GTA during my college career and one of my students was an eighteen year old African American. This matters because he was offended at the term. Sadly he'd not heard of this little speech by another black man ... oh back in '63.

I played the I have a dream speech to the class. I made the mistake of not playing the images that go with it. This kid was furious. How dare I use that racist material in class? So I had the speech replayed on the TV with images. He was flabbergasted to see a black man on the screen using the term negro over and over and over again. He never thought it could have a positive connotation. So I was confused... and I went and asked one of my profs what this was about? Seems high schools are doing a lousy job of teaching the civil rights movement. So the kids are not hearing the word in any POSITIVE light it was seen by many of the actual participants. Or for that matter a kid like me NOT growing in the US, but who damn it knew who King was... or actually have read this seminal speech in translation, and studied him in the context of the 60s (no the 60s were not just a US phenomena) and Ghandhi.

I'd hazard to say that you are younger, and don't necessarily connect it with that movement which changed the country and ironically the language. Now my prof was there, and as he explained, the term first black came from the Black Pride movement and a very well intentioned effort to leave the slavery past behind, due to the negatives in the history of the word, see bills of sale during slavery times. But at the same time the history of black struggle and people like Frederick Douglas, or even Dubois, were thrown to the side, because they USED that term as self identification and yes, pride. And we could not have this insulting word used in a HISTORY or Literature class, after all. And this is also part of the argument for removing Uncle Tom's Cabin and Huck Finn from the curriculum.

Hell Douglas, Dubois and other icons of African American History are not taught about, for the most part, in High School (which leads to a whole different conversation on the teaching of history and all that). So kids are not getting good role models that go well into the past... but as I said, that is a whole different discussion. For the record in some cases you need to go to the Black African Studies Department to hear off them. I was blessed, I had professors who while white taught in a mainstream department of the black struggle. You have no idea how much of an exception to the rule that is. I didn't either until I started readying more into US Academe recently.

Hell, I am sure Miss Barnard has not been to any US History Conference, where in the course of studying history even twenty somethings will use the terms colored and negro, after all they do have a very proper historical contest, some of it ugly, some of it very positive.

But from your comments, and I might be wrong, I am almost betting you are younger and like that kid decades ago, really cannot conceive of this word being used in a positive way.

[Captain Hilts]

29. Tell the NAACP and UNCF that. nt

[Dennis Donovan]

48. I'm sure they've heard...

;):hi:

[Captain Hilts]

55. hey there back at you!

[Rhiannon12866]

107. I couldn't imagine anyone using that term today, either, but

Stephen Colbert just did... :evilgrin: :hide:

[Warpy]

5. You'd be surprised by how prevalent it is among old money

and even their hired help in corporate boardrooms. It's the polite word to use if you're totally insulated from the population at large.

I think of it as quaint and proof of being completely out of touch with the country as a whole.

We've all pretty much moved on. They never had to so they didn't.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

11. you'd be surprised by how prevalent it is among old poor folk n/t

[Warpy]

50. I was a nurse for 25 years, nothing about people surprises me any more

and I even heard old, poor black folks still using it.

[CBR]

6. I am 29 and I have not heard anyone use that term.

I hear black and African-American (i.e. the black guy next door or the African-American lady down the street) but never negro. Unfortunately, I did hear the other N word used frequently during my high school days in WVa.

[nadinbrzezinski]

17. Generational divide

that is the point.

[Hannah Bell]

8. in my childhood (50s) it was the preferred respectful usage. so 100 = exaggeration.

[bigwillq]

9. My Nonni

uses the word "colored" She thinks it's better than using the word "black". She's in her 80s.

[nadinbrzezinski]

24. There you go,

Each generation also uses different words for the same thing.

[ddeclue]

14. That apparently makes you 12 years old.

It was colored until the 1950's.. (that's what the C in NAACP stands for)

It was negro in the 1950's until 1968 (hence UNCF and MLK used the word (as did RFK) many many times in his speeches.

In 1968 it became "black" which it has been for about the first 25 to 30 years of MY life and in the late 1980's started transitioning over to "African American" - I personally slip up and use "black" rather frequently.. hopefully no one is offended.

It seems entirely reasonable that people in their mid 50's and older would use other words that they grew up with.

That said, Reid is a damned fool who puts his foot in his mouth a lot and is ineffective and a sell out on HCR so he should go for THAT not this one incident.

[nadinbrzezinski]

19. Yeah but I was talking of a PUNDIT, aka Michelle Bernard

who gave me that Jewell on Hardball.

She is in her late 20s, early 30s, so yes I can believe she'd never heard it.

Why I said Pundits (especially younger ones) need to get out more often, and in her case perhaps even go back to visit grandma and talk about oh the civil rights movement and Dr. King who'd be what in his late seventies now if he'd not died?

[ddeclue]

28. he'd be 80.

[Owl]

68. Good post.

[Capers]

15. ...

http://www.uncf.org/aboutus/whoweare.asp
http://www.naacp.org

[Captain Hilts]

21. It is archaic, but it's not a pejorative. nt

[Kahuna]

22. Brown slapped her down pretty good. I'm in the Brown/Clyburn camp..

I don't find the word "negro" offensive at all. It is a technical term, the same way that caucasin is. Butn then, that's me. In being totally consistent I don't get bent out of shape over words....as a rule.

[Mari333]

23. heh. my mom and dad used colored people when i was a kid in the 50s

I think my mom still says 'colored' on occassion. I always laugh now. its so weird.

[Laura902]

27. I have

extremely racist tea-party family members who use the term

[hayu_lol]

42. There are many words in our vocabularly...

word use changes over time and experience. Black began to be used when the Black Power movement moved into the cutting edge of our experience.

As some have already noted, negro=black in Spanish and related languages.

Despite the OP's generalization, many of we older coots have managed to bring our vocabulary up to date as we aged. Somehow, he hasn't realized this yet.

As a descriptive term, Black is a stronger word. Negro is a weak term.

What today is the chosen term by the group so identified...that is their choice to make.

[nadinbrzezinski]

53. This is NOT about Harry Reid

but about Michelle Bernard. Catch her on the rewind of Countdown.

You will, perhaps, get my WTF moment with this younger gal...

[Laura902]

67. They don't use it because they are old, their only in their 50s

They use it purposefully to degrade others. Before Obama was elected they said black most of the time and still do just like the majority of people now but when talking specifically of the president they say "I bet that negro will resign by september, no one in this country is falling for his shit". I restrain myself or walk into another room when this occurs.

[kskiska]

34. I have a Dream by Martin Luther King, Jr; August 28, 1963

Delivered on the steps at the Lincoln Memorial in Washington D.C. on August 28, 1963

Five score years ago, a great American, in whose symbolic shadow we stand signed the Emancipation Proclamation. This momentous decree came as a great beacon light of hope to millions of Negro slaves who had been seared in the flames of withering injustice. It came as a joyous daybreak to end the long night of captivity.

But one hundred years later, we must face the tragic fact that the Negro is still not free. One hundred years later, the life of the Negro is still sadly crippled by the manacles of segregation and the chains of discrimination. One hundred years later, the Negro lives on a lonely island of poverty in the midst of a vast ocean of material prosperity. One hundred years later, the Negro is still languishing in the corners of American society and finds himself an exile in his own land. So we have come here today to dramatize an appalling condition.

(snip)

It would be fatal for the nation to overlook the urgency of the moment and to underestimate the determination of the Negro. This sweltering summer of the Negro's legitimate discontent will not pass until there is an invigorating autumn of freedom and equality. Nineteen sixty-three is not an end, but a beginning. Those who hope that the Negro needed to blow off steam and will now be content will have a rude awakening if the nation returns to business as usual. There will be neither rest nor tranquility in America until the Negro is granted his citizenship rights. The whirlwinds of revolt will continue to shake the foundations of our nation until the bright day of justice emerges.

But there is something that I must say to my people who stand on the warm threshold which leads into the palace of justice. In the process of gaining our rightful place we must not be guilty of wrongful deeds. Let us not seek to satisfy our thirst for freedom by drinking from the cup of bitterness and hatred.

We must forever conduct our struggle on the high plane of dignity and discipline. We must not allow our creative protest to degenerate into physical violence. Again and again we must rise to the majestic heights of meeting physical force with soul force. The marvelous new militancy which has engulfed the Negro community must not lead us to distrust of all white people, for many of our white brothers, as evidenced by their presence here today, have come to realize that their destiny is tied up with our destiny and their freedom is inextricably bound to our freedom. We cannot walk alone.

And as we walk, we must make the pledge that we shall march ahead. We cannot turn back. There are those who are asking the devotees of civil rights, "When will you be satisfied?" We can never be satisfied as long as our bodies, heavy with the fatigue of travel, cannot gain lodging in the motels of the highways and the hotels of the cities. We cannot be satisfied as long as the Negro's basic mobility is from a smaller ghetto to a larger one. We can never be satisfied as long as a Negro in Mississippi cannot vote and a Negro in New York believes he has nothing for which to vote. No, no, we are not satisfied, and we will not be satisfied until justice rolls down like waters and righteousness like a mighty stream.

(end of snip)

[iamtechus]

79. What an interesting thread. My great great great greatgrandfather came to

America in the early 1700s and, after some time, owned a large farm (read plantation) in VA. Here is an excerpt from his last will and testament where he refers to certain individual slaves. This was written in the late 1700s.

ITEM, I give and bequeath unto my eldest Daughter, Elizabeth Claypoole, a negro wench named Poll, to her the said Elizabeth Claypoole, her heirs and assigns forever.

ITEM, I give and bequeath to my youngest Daughter, Margaret Ruddle, a young negro Girl named Linda to her the said Margaret Ruddell her heirs and assigns forever.

ITEM, I give and bequeath to my youngest son Solomon XXXXXX, the tract of land known by the name of the lick place, also the water, and cater courses from the head of the big spring down to the corner line between the two old surveys, standing on the S. E. side of said river at the head of the long Bottom, then the lard from the opposite said corner on the N.W. side of said run including all the new survey made by Mr. Poston, thence down the S. E. side of said run till opposite the mill, thence leaving the run at the head of the bottom and runners down the middle of the bank which divides the high lands from the bottom till opposite the alum rock, thence across the bottom and across the run untill Blackburn's line including all Blackburn's place and so much of the lower old survey as lies on the N.W. side of said run and water mark whereon the mills stand, likewise a negro Boy named Sam, to him the said Solomon together with the Smith's Tolls, his heirs and assigns forever.

ITEM, I give and bequeath unto my son, James XXXXXX the plantation whereon I now live, except so much of the lower survey as is devised as above to my son Solomon, the upper survey containing one hundred and twenty five acres, and the lower survey two hundred & twenty five- also the negro wench named Sue, at his mother's decease, to him the said James XXXXXX, his heirs and assigns forever.

[DainBramaged]

35. My now deceased 92 year old loving Mom used the term her entire life

and growing up she never once used the other 'N' word when speaking with us about race.

[goldcanyonaz]

36. n/m thought this was a Ried thread. Didn't see the show.

[nadinbrzezinski]

54. Not about reid, but Michelle Bernard

last time i checked Reid IS NOT a TV pundit.

[damntexdem]

37. I dunno -- is Sen. Reid under 100 years old?

;-)

(Hey, I'm an old geezer, so I can say such things -- but no ageism from any of you young whippersnappers!)

[CatWoman]

38. I'm 54 years old

and I've gone from being a Negro, to Colored, to African American..........

[nadinbrzezinski]

40. And I am betting two more itterattions before you kick the bucket

they are almost generational.

:hi:

[CatWoman]

47. LOL

:hi:

Can I call myself "equal opportunity slut"?

:rofl:

[Kahuna]

88. Riiiiight!

;)

[Kahuna]

72. Do you remember being, "afro-American?" That was my favorite..

because we were kind of from Africa, but not totally. Which is closer to the truth than being called, African-American.

[janx]

81. Ahhhh!

;-) I remember that! It reminds me of a hair-do from the seventies!

[nadinbrzezinski]

85. I was thinking the same!!!!

[Skittles]

82. I remember my English grandmother saying "Negro"

(not in a racist context) - and I corrected her and said that was really passe, she should say BLACK - that was THIRTY YEARS AGO :o

[Kahuna]

90. Calling a black person, "black" used to be fighting words. Seriously..

That's why it's so silly to get bent out of shape of "negro," which literally does mean black.

[JDPriestly]

41. Nadin, have you ever heard of the NAACP?

Do you know what that stands for? National Association of Colored People. Read the writings of progressives and liberals prior to the mid-60s and '70s. The polite terms for African-Americans were "colored" and "Negro."

If you understand how the brain works, how we learn associations very early in our lives, you will have a little compassion and understanding for us older folks who grew up using and hearing those terms. They are not pejorative terms. Sorry. They may be politically incorrect, but they do not demonstrate disrespect or intolerance.

"When white America refused to see how segregation mocked American values, ER (Eleanor Roosevelt) addressed this issue sternly and directly: "We have never been willing to face this problem, to line it up with the basic, underlying beliefs in Democracy." Racial prejudice enslaved blacks; consequently, "no one can claim that . . . the Negroes of this country are free." She continued this theme in a 1942 article in the New Republic, declaring that both the private and the public sector must acknowledge that "one of the main destroyers of freedom is our attitude toward the colored race." "What Kipling called `The White Man's Burden'," she proclaimed in The American Magazine, is "one of the things we can not have any longer." Furthermore, she told those listening to the radio broadcast of the 1945 National Democratic forum, "democracy may grow or fade as we face problem."

http://www.nps.gov/archive/elro/teach-er-vk/lesson-plans/notes-er-and-civil-rights.htm

We old people try to use the politically correct words, but our tired brains sometimes connect to the words we learned to use as children. After all, back then, (I don't know about other children) I would have been scolded had I referred to African-Americans as African-American or black. Those were not the right words to use. Negro or colored were the correct words.

[nadinbrzezinski]

44. You shoudl direct that to Michelle Bernard

who gave us the jewel I quoted in the OP.

I was going, damn kid... and she is also where she is because of the Civil Rights and Women's Rights movement.. but she is a died in the wool republican... I am betting she has not heard of either the NAACP or other organizations that use those "horrible" terms...that she has never heard anybody use.

[JDPriestly]

92. I missed the encounter with her. At the same time,

Harry Reid's statements were in my view condescending beyond belief. I don't think his statement was just a reversion to old synopses (or whatever they are called) in the brain.

I can't judge Michelle Bernard because I don't know enough about who she is or what she said. Sorry, I don't watch TV.

[nadinbrzezinski]

95. I was reacting to her statement not his, and hers were part of RNC Memes

his should be a window into a reality though. Yes, his statement was condescending beyond belief, but sadly a reality. Color of skin does determine opportunity not just in our society. But all societies still struggling with the remnants of colonialism.

I can make this same statement about Mexico for example, or France, or England... I could go on.

So we should use this as a discussion moment. What he said should be a teachable moment... in our road to not only a post racial society, but a post colonial society... and yes the US Empire will have to give the ghost someday, and this little issue with race we will struggle for a long time, was established in the 16th century.

[slampoet]

43. I live in a Portuguese speaking neighborhood and i heard people calling themselves negro every week

especially the Cape-Verdeans.

[nadinbrzezinski]

49. And due to these folks we might see a 180 on the word as well

and its usage with younger folks, now immigrants.

In some hispanic communities you will hear it too.

[FarCenter]

74. "negro" is the Spanish word for the English word "black"

At least according to the Google translator.

[Cirque du So-What]

45. Why hasn't the UNCF changed its name?

I'm not trying to be a smart-ass; I really would like to know.

[nadinbrzezinski]

52. Tradition?

And it is not such a horrible word either.

Now when used in certain ways... absolutely... but all words can take on very negative connotations.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

58. the joke I heard was

"The National Association for the Advancement of Certain People".

This was among black people, and I'm white.

[yellowcanine]

46. It is on the 2010 census form because so many people wrote it in on the 2000 census form.

Go figure. Before "African American" it was "Black" Before "Black" sometime in the late 60s it was Negro. This was the accepted term by African Americans. So it is not surprising that a lot of African Americans older than 55 would see nothing wrong with it and maybe even prefer it.

[nadinbrzezinski]

51. And that is the point that I was going WTF wiht Michelle Bernard's

statement...

[Manifestor_of_Light]

61. Back in the early 80s

I was a court reporter for a grummpy old white judge that every lawyer in town was scared of, because he would blow up unpredictably like a volcano. I only put up with his BS for a few months.

He once was talking to me and used the word "darkie". I was completely flabbergasted and immediately told all my black court reporter friends about it. This man had grown up in Pennsylvania and gone to St. Mary's law school in San Antonio.

:wtf:

[nadinbrzezinski]

80. Now as my prof, who was part of the freedom riders

would say.

That was damn racist.

But the problem is that many folks who use a term like that... even if only once, are not aware of their own racism... or how much it is connected to colonialism.

[Thirtieschild]

62. I'm a month short of 75 and say black. Habit and generation I would guess.

My mother, who was born in Georgia and died a year ago at age 100, said colored. Mr. 30s wrote the Civil Rights story, from Little Rock through King's assassination; the common usage then was Negro(with a capital N).

[nadinbrzezinski]

87. I am not surprised

it is generational. You are on the leading edge for black. Your mother was right in place for her generation. And yes in the 1960s it was Negro... and Negro as a word of self identification goes back a long time, to before the colonial period.

[Hello_Kitty]

63. I'm 41 and pretty sure I'm at the cusp of the generation it went out of common use

I distinctly recall the use of the words Negro and colored - though not in print or on TV - until I was about 7 or so and after that very rarely and then not at all by the time I was in my early teens. But YMMV.

[pnwmom]

65. And it still is on the official site of The United Negro College Fund, UNCF,

if you look on the bottom of the page.

[Atticus]

69. To paraphrase Congressman Clyburn just a moment ago, we should "judge

a person by their DEEDS, not their words."

In my parent's day, "Negro" was the courteous way of referring to folks who are now referred to as black or African-American. I grew up in a poor white neighborhood where the "N-word" was used frequently by our neighbors. My mother let me know that only mean people used such language, that she considered it "cussing" and that she would "snatch me bald-headed" if she ever heard me use such hurtful language. This same lady told me that "Negro" was the respectable term for black people and that we white folks were "Caucasian".

Mom's been dead for 11 years now, but if everyone had her kind heart, we wouldn't be having this unfortunate discussion.

[nadinbrzezinski]

91. Yeah but what Reid said is not what is shocking

but the meme that nobody under 100 used the term... aka from our lovely talking head.

[MrScorpio]

73. Believe it or nor, people still use it

Especially, in places of the country where there aren't a lot of black people in the population

I once had to correct a 21 YO second looie from Utah about that term. She told me that she wasn't used to being in a place like Virginia, "...Where there are a lot of negroes around".

What she said didn't offend me, because I knew that she that she didn't mean any thing racist about it.

I just told her that most black people would rather be referred to as "black" or "African-American" and left it at that.

Hopefully, she altered her speech.

[nadinbrzezinski]

93. I am not shocked or surprised

but the talking head would be.

:hi:

Why Bernard is an ass.

[Bitwit1234]

75. Damn I'm no where near 100 and I used it up to about 10 years ago

I guess using black is over the hill now, huh.

[Chan790]

76. Clearly he's never heard of the United Negro College Fund. n/t

[hayu_lol]

77. Trivia...

South Africa for years differentiated between the races with White, Black, and Colored.

Colored was for mixed race and both whites and blacks discriminated against them.

[Matariki]

78. I'm curious - I get the sense that the only people 'upset' at Reid

are caucasians in the republican party. Oh, and Michael Steele.

correct me if I'm wrong.

[nadinbrzezinski]

86. You'd be close

and some progressives who are also playing that dance lord knows why.

Of course the whole issue should allow us to talk of something else... what Reid said is real. Lighter skin Blacks have an easier time in white society than darker skin people. Oh and this is not just the US. Same thing south of the border... and in Europe.

It is part and parcel of that ugly period in World History called Colonialism. Instead people will go on about how Harry Reid should not talk in public, (or most likely private) of an ugly reality and in the US it is the result of 300 years of being a colony... those trends start at one point and just continue.

[Matariki]

111. You are exactly correct.

[Kahuna]

94. Isn't that always the case? Last week it was the census using the word..

negro. While white people and the GOP are getting bent out of shape, black people are continuing on with their lives.

[treestar]

89. My grandparents used "colored"

They were born in the 1900s (the first decade).

"Negro" seems to have been only briefly proper and soon gave way to "black" which my parent's generation uses.

[nadinbrzezinski]

97. What is intersting is that negro was used by the intellectual elites

starting in the 19th century. Read any Frederick Douglas and you will read the word (he was a former slave) read Dubois and again you will read it. The term has been in constant use until oh the late 1960s.

That is why certain Black Organizations have that term in their names to this day.

[csziggy]

96. When I was a child, "colored" was the accepted term in the South.

There were still signs up about "colored only" in some places. And I will turn 58 this year.

I remember the switch to "negro" and then to "black"and/or "African-American". Any more I am not sure what term is politically correct. There are people around here that refer to "coloreds" but obviously are not trying to use the word as a bad thing - it is just the term they grew up with.

I figure if people are treated with respect and the words are not used pejoratively, they should not be castigated.

As far as what Reid said, I think the unpleasant part is the idea that "negro speech" may not be acceptable rather than the actual word.

[nadinbrzezinski]

98. Yeah but I was reacting to Michelle Barnard's quote

she must be very young. On and read the post above dealing with the word and its constant usage by the Black Intellectual elite.

As a side note, what Reid said about jobs... sadly he is right. This is part of the colonial experience we share with Mexico and other places. But that is a whole different discussion and at the threat of making some heads explode perhaps it is time to explore what the hell he was talking about... by accident, but he was. And no Harry Reid should know better to even go there.

[unc70]

124. Black was perjorative, to be feared. Dialects/accents a big issue, B&W

It would be niggardly of me not to join this discussion. (Niggardly is unrelated to the real N word, instead related to back and forth over small things (niggle, related to nit and gnat), to an excess not acceptable ("ard" ending). Originally used for arguing/bargaining for a tiny selfish advantage gained which in no way justified the resulting loss to others nor the effort prolonging the process.

Mingling niggardly and negro likely contributed to the perjorative N word, but should not be used to tarnish either of those words. Of all the terms discussed in this thread, negro is the most neutral and would not have been used in the example above as "that negro" which would have used the N-word. Negro was a bit formal, but respectful. Colored or people of color was a more-general term that was widely used and accepted by all sides, somewhat negative in its assumption of the superiority and dominance of whites.

The use of black, particularly during and after the 1960's started as a very negative term, used by the mostly white establishment to describe groups or actions to be feared. Angry black men, black power, black panthers, black rage, black militants, etc., were used to keep many whites in fear. Afro-American continued the positioning as less than unqualified American, diminished further by assocition with big hair.

African-American pushes that separation even further from "reaL" Americans, white Christian Americans. Obama is AA, maybe Teresa Heinz, but joining as Americans is what matters. This playing one group against another and keeping us divided and distracted retains power, control, and wealth where always is, just out of our view.

A lot of this starts with the mythic American story, its history a series of triumphs of right over wrong, freedom over oppression and slavery, good over evil. North over South, destiny over free will, American exceptionalism. The simplistic view of Lincoln freeing the slaves rarely notes that it was illegal for any negro/black/colored/freedman free or slave to live in the "free state" of Illinois. The free vs slave state dichotomy was really a white-only vs slave state distinction.

Finally, we do not elect as President anyone who speaks poorly, or with too much of any identifialbe accent or dialect. Almost any Southern accent, whether mostly used by blacks or whites, is a negative for most Americans, usually viewed as less educated and not as smart. Probably true for the "Soprano" accent mentioned above.

Now what should I have noticed while I have been distracted over here?

[spanone]

103. she called bill clinton a racist....totally out of line

[nadinbrzezinski]

105. I know but that is an RNC meme

so that did not shock me.

[Captain Hilts]

106. That 'divide and conquer' strategy. nt

[kwassa]

109. Black people use the word "negro"

and colored and everything else when they are joking around. Colored folk. Negro. They aren't senior citizens, either.

It is no big thing, and no big offense.

It is like the black vs. African-American or Afro-american. I think white people care about this much more than black people.

This is some trivial shit. Some triflin' shit.

[nadinbrzezinski]

114. Unfortunately skin color (and shade) is predictive of how well

you will do in society... and not just in the US. So trivial... not so much.

There is a code for this, and a hierarchy of color, again not just in the US. And for the record I wish we were having this conversation in the PAST tense.

[kwassa]

123. you miss my point.

The discussion about skin color is indeed important.

The discussion of the terms Negro vs. black vs. African-American is not that discussion. This discussion of these terms, the subject of this thread, is trivial, because it is not important or critical to the discussion of issues of race. It is simply semantics, and doesn't approach the real issues of race at all.

[krispos42]

117. The New York Times stopped using the term sometime around 1970

I have a book called "Page One", and it's a volume of the front pages of the NYTimes from 1900 to 2000 of historical interest. I've been pawing through it for about a half-hour or so now.

Saturday, April 6, 1968:

ARMY TROOPS IN CAPITAL AS NEGROES RIOT;
GUARD SENT INTO CHICAGO, DEROIT, BOSTON;
JOHNSON ASKS A JOINT SECCION OF CONGRESS

screams the headline a few days after MLK Jr.'s assassination, and the accompanying article uses the term "Negroes" in it as well.



Tuesday, September 14, 1971

Excerpt:

...The hands of an electric
clock on the wall pointed to
that second for almost two
hours, while state policemen
and other officers put a
bloody end to a massive up-
rising by almost 1,500 inmates
- mostly black and Puerto
Rican.

The story is about the Attica prison riot.




So sometimes between 1968 and 1971, the Times made the switch. So anybody over age, 50, say, could easily remember the word "Negro" being part of everyday mainstream usage.

[Carolina]

121. Michelle is a hack

Some of us Negroes -- yes, as a child of the segregated 50's that's what's on my birth certificate --hate the contrived, universal designation African-American (AA) for more reasons than I can, or care to, elaborate here. Like your neighbor, we lived through and participated in the Civil Rights movement so Michelle (whose Dad is from somewhere in the Caribbean) should STFU.

African-American fits Obama and some Nigerian immigrants I went to school with but NOT me. In fact, it was precisely the arrogance of the Nigerian (African-American) males I encountered in higher education that made me loathe the the term as a descriptor for me. One told me that that I should genuflect when he entered the room since back in his country, he was a prince. WTF! I retorted that if he was so mighty back home why didn't he stay there. That's when he countered with a comment that American Black women didn't know their place!!! He was not alone or an aberration.

Given a choice, I still prefer Negro as do many of my family members and friends. In fact, my older sister so loathes AA that she puts 'other' on all forms.

And BTW, what does Michelle have to say about the UNCF (United Negro College Fund) and, for an even older term (my parents' time), the NAACP (National Assn for the Advancement of Colored People)!

[blueworld]

122. Colored was a negative reference, Negro was not

Will we be spared hearing "Caucasian" or "Oriental" or "Occidental" from now on? These are old-fashioned terms true, but hardly racist IMO. As far as "Negro dialect", I agree that's offensive. I feel the same way when someone starts speaking "Sopranos" every time they find out I'm Italian-American (European Caucasian?) from Jersey.

I agree with those authorities who would like us to discuss race MORE OPENLY in this country, rather than continue the red herring panty raids launched by the GOP juveniles.

Reid's apology is sufficient for the President, and I think he's obviously not a racist. We've all received a little more education - wonderful. We'll be more careful about using current terminology & burying the old crap.

Now can we also discuss censoring the GOP Wing-nut dialect permanently? Good grief.

[live love laugh]

125. What does it matter? nt

[Horse with no Name]

126. I agree

I know older people who are good as gold that still use that term--and think they are being respectful.
I will correct some of them who simply do not know the politically correct terms--but it is done out of ignorance--not malice.