we can organize world to address Haiti but not global climate change: are we genetically doomed?

[zazen]

I know many evolutionary psychologists and biologists have written about how we're wired to respond to immediate stressors but that acting in collective ways that we perceive as a short time sacrifice (as GCC and energy descent require) for longer term gain is highly evolutionarily likely. I know it's been asked many times before, but I wanted to raise it again today.

I'm just so struck by the difference in nations coming together to help the sufferers of this Haitian apocalypse and the way nations gamed each other last month in Copenhagen.

Is there anyway to build on this cooperation and energy to demonstrate that we can move forward on climate change action? Or will we just continue to respond to natural catastrophes, more of which will result from GCC, one at a time? Maybe time, in the long emergency, just gives too much room for self-interested and ultimately self-defeating maneuvering.

[FiveGoodMen]

1. The difference is that everyone knows the earthquake happened.

The science behind climate change is over a lot of people's heads and that leaves room for liars to grind the whole debate to a halt.

[Redstone]

2. Uh, the first is kind of immediate. Shame on you for trivializing it.

Redstone

[zazen]

4. yeah, right; my post really suggests it's trivial; shame on you for misplaced anger n/t

[zazen]

8. and shame on you for trivializing the millions who'll die from flooding in Indonesia

and the number of species that will go extinct,
and the millions who'll die from famine in Africa

Good Lord. Like we're not capable of recognizing more than one tragedy at a time. Jesu.

[FarCenter]

3. It's all a matter of media and what is important this 24 hour news cycle

Whatever happened to Yemen? My guess it that Yemen is still the hell-hole that it was a few days ago. But the news channels attention has shifted to Haiti, the greater hell-hole.

Of course governments and NGOs are sending stuff to Haiti. However, given the magnitude of the disaster, it is doubtful that what you see really "addresses Haiti". Most people there will live or die due to the efforts of the local population and its remaining resources.

But the rescue stuff makes excellent television.

[zazen]

10. I agree; I worry Americans are hooked on crises, and this will disappear like the tsunami coverage

Or Katrina coverage.

Got any idea what's with the flaming?

[The2ndWheel]

5. Two very different things

[zazen]

6. that's my point: this outpouring now is inspirational, but climate change will kill millions

I think we just don't believe that on some level.

Of course we should respond to the current heartwrenching agony of these people right now. I just wish we could muster this collective will about the suffering that most scientists say is down the road but we all walk around denying (including me).

[The2ndWheel]

14. One is built into the foundation of growth-requiring civilization

The other is an earthquake. The wanted reaction to the earthquake will be of rebuilding/building, which will then increase the overall impact we have on the planet, which will help to change the climate that much more. That's why climate change doesn't have the same reaction.

[zazen]

16. good point; forgive me for not getting your nuance earlier

I was too shocked at being attacked by these weird self-righteous posters who apparently can't think about two humanitarian issues at the same time. That kind of thinking is symptomatic of the problem I was raising in the first place.

[Name removed]

7. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Forkboy]

9. I don't think the human species has rewired it's brain for long term survival yet.

We're great at the short term stuff, but think out more than 10-20 years and people's eyes glaze over.

[zazen]

11. I'm afraid you might be right n/t

[Redstone]

12. I give the fuck up. People are dying NOW, and I get hammered for pointing

that out.

OK, you win. We'll not feel obliged to put any energy into saving Haitians (who, after all, are just brown people), in favor of directing all of our energy into long-term goals such as climate change. Not that climate change is not a concern, but it's not a concern RIGHT NOW to people who have no food, no water, no NOTHING.

I give up. I'll not re-enter this thread.

Redstone

[zazen]

18. but people are posting on all sorts of topics at DU now; does it mean they don't care about Haiti?

Where did I ever say I haven't contributed money (which I have), or that I don't in fact have a family friend who is DOWN THERE MISSING RIGHT NOW. His daughter (they're Haitian) is a good friend of my daughter's and we're all freaked out. How dare you insinuate that because I raise a question that is raised on Energy Bulletin regularly that I'm somehow racist and that I don't care about this catastrophe? I watched part of the Financial Industry hearings today. Did all of us who thought about that for a minute today not care about Haiti?

Do I have the power to stop supplies going to Haitians now? If I did, would I want to?

This is ridiculous. You've left this thread because you've made a fool of yourself.

[Forkboy]

20. What is with people today?

You're totally overreacting. Where in the OP does it say anything about not caring for or helping Haiti? By all means, Redstone, cite which quote in the OP says anything remotely like what you just posted. And playing the race card? Wouldn't solving global warming save a fuckload of those "brown people" you say you care about, or do people in Bangladesh not register? :shrug:

The OP is simply pointing out that the human race can react overwhelmingly to help when a disaster is already here, but we're blind to any that might be coming in the long term future, and it asks if that will be our downfall. Nothing more, nothing less. But for that he's been compared to Robertson, Limbaugh, and you're essentially calling him racist.

It's kneejerk bullshit.

[zazen]

21. thanks Forkboy; I don't apologize for my post, but I sure had no idea it would upset people

If I had, I guess I would have waited. Conversations like this are best had over in the peak oil community, I guess, at least this early on. I was assuming a common frame and obviously got it wrong for this board.

[Forkboy]

22. I can totally understand why people are upset and emotional,

but it doesn't forgive just shutting off the brain. I have to wonder how many actually read what you posted and how many saw that you brought up Haiti in any context other than immediate help and stopped there, but it's kind sad either way. If you were saying the relief was a waste or stupid and that we should be worried about global warming AT THE EXCLUSION of Haiti they'd have a point. And I suspect the knee jerk reactions are based on that misconception...their fault, not yours.

What's sad is they answer your question posed in the OP all too well.

[Uncle Joe]

13. I agree with your post but the timing was too soon. n/t

[RaleighNCDUer]

15. The earthquake already happened.

You don't call EMS because a car wreck is about to happen - you only respond after the fact.

Once the ice sheets are melted, the thermo-haline circuit is stopped dead, and sea levels have risen by 20 meters, THEN you will see a response.

[Bobbieo]

17. The Haiti Earthquake may be just Onecatastrophic event resulting from

climate change with more to come!!!

[RaleighNCDUer]

19. I know of no theories that connect geologic events with climate change -

at least, not in that direction. Climate can change as a result of geologic events - earth movements altering ocean currents, volcanoes increasing reflectivity of the atmosphere, etc., but haven't heard anything about climate affecting geology (except, of course, the melting of the N American ice sheets reducing downward pressure on the N American plate, causing it to rise by 1cm/yr over the last 11,000 years).