Teabaggers Plan to Shoot Up the Country if They Don't Get Their Way

[marmar]

via AlterNet's PEEK:



Tea Party Becomes the 'Vote Our Way or We Shoot You' Party

Posted by Devilstower , Daily Kos at 10:26 AM on January 15, 2010.

"We can go to the soap box, the ballot box, or we can go to the jury box. And hopefully we won't have to go to the bullet box."




Hey, the Tea Party "movement" isn't about violence, or racism, or any of that stuff. It's about calling the health care bill Nazi-inspired and reminding people that Barack Obama is an Indonesian Muslim. Oh, and remember to vote our way or we shoot you.

On-Point Host, Tom Ashbrook: Joining us from Royal Oak, Michigan, is Jeffrey McQueen, founder of USRevolution2.com, which has created a modified American flag to serve as a symbol for the Tea Party movement. He has been protesting government involvement in the auto industry at the North American International Auto Show in Detroit this week.

...

Ashbrook: if the Tea Party works out for you, to your vision, what will we see in ten years?

McQueen: Well I hope across America no politician will travel this country without seeing this flag so they're reminded of who they work for.

Ashbrook: How about the American flag? That's not good enough? You know, the stars and stripes?

McQueen: This flag has never been meant to replace the national flag. This flag has a specific purpose and it's time has come. To show the politicians and the media that we're ready for a second American revolution. And with that, you know, in America we have a choice of four boxes for political change. We can go to the soap box, the ballot box, or we can go to the jury box. And hopefully we won't have to go to the bullet box.

Ashbrook: Bullet box? Are you talking about armed revolution?

McQueen: Have you seen the ammunition sales the last twelve months?

So remember, folks, health care for the poor? That's Nazi BS! True American heroes take up arms to overthrow democratic elections. Got it?

And of course, this isn't the first time that conservatives have raised the idea of using the bullet box to undo the results of those pesky elections.

Catherine Crabill, a Republican nominee for Virginia House of Delegates: We have a chance to fight this battle at the ballot box before we have to resort to the bullet box. I am glad for all of us who enjoy the use of firearms for hunting, but make no mistake, that was not the intent of the Founding Fathers. Our second amendment right was to guard against tyranny.

So vote conservative and all is well. Screw it up at the ballot box, and that'll have to get rec-t-fied by my leetle friend here. Got it?


http://www.alternet.org/blogs/peek/145197/tea_party_becomes_the_%27vote_our_way_or_we_shoot_you%27_party/

[CaliforniaPeggy]

1. Those people are delusional and traitorous.

They need to be stopped.

I hope they're being tracked by all the appropriate agencies.

:mad:

[nimvg]

8. Peggy...

...in states like Texas and Georgia and North Carolina, the people from "all the appropriate agencies" are probably Tea Baggers themselves.

We lived down there for almost ten years. It's different.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

10. You have my sympathies!

And......welcome to DU!

:hi:

[nimvg]

33. Let's Just Say...

...northern California is a major step up from Plano.

[Paladin]

37. Do You Have An Openly-Gay Mayor In Your California City?

Houston does. That would be Houston, Texas, the fourth-biggest city in the nation.

Just a reminder that the Texas-bashing doesn't resonate around DU like it used to........

[bridgit]

40. That warm fuzzy feeling with stop when she drops a bomb on some popular program

;)

[Paladin]

56. Don't Count On It. (n/t)

[nimvg]

72. What I'm Saying...

...is that my wife and I were sick just about the whole time we lived down there.

The spring storms, year round allergies, the heat, the glorification of ignorance for its own sake...

After awhile, you just don't care anymore. You just want out.

[tango-tee]

80. The climate

in Southeast Texas takes some getting used to. I arrived in Beaumont, coming from Germany, in May 1974 during the first trimester of my pregnancy. We lived close to a refinery, and the mixture of the sulphur smell, the humidity and heat plus pregnancy was pretty volatile. Many years later, when I shivered through the never-ending Minnesota winters, I longingly thought of Beaumont.

I have lots of fond memories of my neighbors there. At times, it's the luck of the draw of how to grow to feel about a particular place, whether you're miserable or feel right at home. So much comes into play.

Before I forget, welcome to DU from one newbie to another!

[Paladin]

120. I'm Sorry, But.....

....you gave no indication that you were referring to physical afflictions. And that "glorification of ignorance" comment is a cheap shot at the millions of Texans who voted for Obama.......

[axollot]

123. That's how I feel about Florida! Storms are great but..

the allergies are killing me slowly!

Cheers
Sandy
WELCOME TO DU MATE!

[zogtheobvious]

115. "Just a reminder that the Texas-bashing doesn't resonate around DU like it used to........"

"Just a reminder that the Texas-bashing doesn't resonate around DU like it used to........"

This may be true, but I think we don't need to call them out for it if the posting comes from someone who actually LIVED there and is commenting based upon THAT rather than on opinion....


Just MY opinion :)

[axollot]

121. California's Governor isn't a secessionist tho....(I know it's still Arnie *SIGH*)

as someone living in the "Deep South" (at least Crist took the stimulus tho) I think TX bashing is still on the table ;)
Cheers
Sandy

[liberation]

144. I don't think that "bashing" means what you think it means...

Good grief with the thin skin...

[AspenRose]

151. Having an openly gay mayor and majority blue urban areas

doesn't magically negate the ignorant majority in Texas. There's no crime in pointing that out, especially if you lived there and know about it first-hand. Our new DUer has a right to that opinion. While I appreciate the hard work and understand the frustration of my democratic brothers and sisters in Texas, I was raised there and happen to agree with this poster's assessment. Sorry.

It isn't YOUR fault that Texas has the reputation it does. But it has that reputation for a reason, and that reputation did not form itself in a vacuum.

[nimvg]

189. Not Only That...

...but just because parts of Dallas, Houston and Austin have a significant number of registered Democrats on the rolls doesn't mean they're progressive or even liberal.

Laura Miller was mayor of Dallas for a number of years when we lived there and she made the same decisions that most moderate (for Texas) Republicans would make. Everything that happens is still about oil/gas, real estate and to a lesser extent technology, aerospace and defense. That's how Texans make their money.

[PJPhreak]

153. Yes It Is!

I have lived in both Plano Tx. and Garberville Ca. and the differences are like night and day!

[SammyWinstonJack]

167. Is it? I am in Northern California right now and I don't think that is necessarily true.

:eyes: I have seen the freedom loving gun supporting liberal hating bumper stickers on plenty of vehicles around here the last few days. Lots of repukes in this area. :silly:

[Bitwit1234]

23. Do tell...remember when a seventh grader

wore a T Shirt to school protesting against bush. The secret service showed up, he was escorted into the principals and questioned -without his parents- and sent home to change. Why was bush more important than the whole of this country being threatened. Is the Obama administration so wimpy they don't want to send the secret service to investigate these blow hards. After all if a gun goes off my accident it is hard to tell what mayhem it might start.

[Name removed]

95. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

124. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[axollot]

131. I remember when that happened. It's school politics -

not so much the administrations.

Although the Rahmbama link has a great quote calling the school officials "Liberal Loons" :cry:

I'm glad that despite where we live, which is a very conservative county in Florida. They don't pull this rubbish at my son's HS. They don't subscribe to "zero tolerance".

For example, my son's best friend is an artist, he draws or doodles while listening in class (and his grades are fantastic)- well one of his teacher's grabbed a paper of his where he had ranted about wanting his teacher dead etc. it was graphic but obviously a rant.

When my husband and I talked to him after school about what happened (the kids all come here after school and I'm lucky to still be a stay@home Mum). We told him to tell his father about it so when the school calls he's not caught off guard. The school of course did call - but all he received was an in-school-suspension. I've heard of similar situations at zero tolerance schools where the police would be called in, the situation investigated and the child expelled from the school.

So it really depends on the school's view on politics rather than the POTUS Administration. Although, it sure felt like fascism when the anti-Bush T-shirt stink happened.

/rant off
Cheers
Sandy

[howaboutme]

65. Guess I'll have to disagree

When we start broadly talking that "these or those" people are traitors it reminds me of Bush/Cheney and the push to compartmentalize those Americans who opposed the Iraq invasion such as calling the Dixie Chicks traitors.

Americans have a big time right to an opinion without being prosecuted or called traitors for disagreeing.

We need more Americans who are not docile and will stand up and oppose our normally corporate bought and paid for politicians and our corrupt government. Those that do, are not treasonous regardless of their ideology.

I'd prefer to see more Americans involved and protesting our government instead of less.

[JoeyT]

74. Yes, it's exactly the same.

People that vocally question illegal actions of a president are exactly the same as a group that openly advocates the overthrow of the government when they lose an election. False equivalencies sure are fun!

I say this as a hardcore civil libertarian that believes in strong protections for freedom of speech even for those I disagree with: If openly advocating the violent overthrow of the government and the assassination of its elected officials isn't treason, what the hell do you consider treasonous? Isn't that pretty much the very definition of treason?

[winyanstaz]

75. I.M.O....

When you have people becoming too desperate they will join up with the tea baggers as they see them as the only ones standing up to the government.
The only way to defuse this and the fastest way..(IMO).. is to see that people get some help that are losing their homes and jobs need to be focused on.
I think that would defuse this tea bagger movement the fastest and with the least trouble.

[dotymed]

100. Maybe,

But I think that people need an alternative to the tea baggers, a progressive movement that aggressively threatens the status quo (not armed). Really, we have a lot in common (and a lot NOT in common) with the teabag movement. We are sick and tired of the status quo. We detest corporate person hood, politicians that are owned by these corporations, outsourcing, a lack of a real democracy..etc.. I strongly believe that most of the tea baggers would rather follow an aggressively anti-status quo, progressive movement. Most of them (tea baggers) are economically challenged, and sick of the gangster capitalism. The teabag leaders take advantage of these feelings and convince these people that they (more Fascists) have the answers. If we fund a strong, vocal progressive movement and attack gangster capitalism, bought politicians..etc..I think that many of those that are currently aligned with the tea baggers, would gladly switch to the progressives. therein lies my desire to create a Viable third party (second really) with progressives like Bernie Sanders, Alan Grayson...etc.. as candidates. I would also add Dennis Kucinich, I really admire him and his ideas, but unfortunately, the MSM has completely destroyed his image to almost all tea baggers.

[jotsy]

133. This is one of those comments that me want a rec button for replies.

You've listed the only politicians who I believe take an earnest stab at being the conduit of public will.

It's hard for me to refer to these groups as the tea party crowd, perhaps because of my own special perception of what the original event is supposed to mean to us now. If what these folks want is their way or else, then they mirror what they claim to want to undo. The real irony here is that to a certain extent all any of us in any group want is sensible and honest governance. We pay house and senate members $75,000,000 a year in salaries alone to see to the people's business and they spend all their time fund raising for the next campaign instead. Kucinich, Sanders and Grayson are the only members I see earning and honoring the dime we pay them.

[winyanstaz]

157. I agree...

[howaboutme]

161. Well said

dotymed....You've said it very well. Americans are sick and tired of being sacrificed so that CEOs and Goldman Sachs employees are rewarded with many millions apiece often, while they outsource American jobs or steal from American taxpayers. Too many elected representatives are being rewarded not for what they do for the USA and its people, but for helping the rich get richer.

This was a movement waiting to happen. But contrary to the OP title I don't see anyone proposing violent actions and anarchy just rallies and demonstrations. Most just want to feel that they have a say in our government. To be frank neither Party really likes it when the people demand a say.

[dotymed]

183. You are a perfect example.

You are new to DU (me too, kinda), I have no idea what your political affiliations are, but you, like the rest of us, Demand that "our" politicians listen to us, not corporations. If we had publicly financed elections, it would save us a lot of money (especially in corporate welfare)and force the pols to try and appease us not the moneyed few who put them in office.

[rasputin1952]

103. It is one thing to protest, it is something entirely different to

call for an armed insurrection.

Protest, regardless of the quarter it comes from, is as American as it gets...calling for armed insurrection is treason.

[Goldstein1984]

119. This country was born in armed insurrection.

Our founding documents were written by the insurrectionists.

I'm all for aggressive non-violent revolt until it proves ineffective. But George Washington led armed insurrectionist against what was at that time the "lawful government."

When Thomas Jefferson wrote that the tree of liberty needed to be nourished from time to time with the blood of tyrants and patriots, I don't think he was writing about an early American Red Cross blood drive.

I'm not advocating violence, only saying that our own history demonstrates it's utility at certain crossroads of events. There are those, and I am one of them, who believe that non-violent tactics are effective because the silently promise violence if they prove ineffective. Martin Luther King worked his magic with the Black Panthers in the background, reminding everyone that things would get worse if they didn't get better.

[smoogatz]

132. What a load of bullshit.

It's one thing for the people to rise up in revolt against an unelected tyrant; it's another thing entirely for a small minority to attempt, through a show of arms, to hold a democratically elected government hostage to their political agenda. As for the Black Panthers and Martin Luther King--that's a novel theory, but if anything the Panthers were responsible for subverting King's message and turning public opinion against integration, not the other way around.

[Goldstein1984]

148. The Second Amendment

which was written by a people who had just used force of arms to win their freedom, was intended to be a perpetual threat to tyrants.

Again, I'm not advocating violence--we have so many institutional and extra-institutional non-violent methods at our disposal--but to say that violence and the potential for violence if non-violent methods fail are not important is to ignore both history and current events--our own and those of others.

King's peaceful message was enhanced, not subverted, by the shadow of the alternative waiting in the background. Peace is most meaningful as a preferred alternative to violence.

I'm going to stop here, since any discussion of violence on DU, regardless of context, is inevitably interpreted as advocacy.

But I will say this much: When I was a teenager, I would sneak out of the house and join the farm workers picketing the fields in Central California. (My father was a Republican, he worked as management in the canneries, and he didn't like the "Mexicans" challenging a status quo that worked perfectly well.) The picketing was non-violent and effective--thousands of acres of lettuce and tomatoes rotted in the fields, causing serious economic impact to the farmers, and to the canneries that depended on the crops for work. And I can tell you from the faces of those who stood against us, that it was the "enforcers" scattered among us that kept us safe--our non-violent picketing remained non-violent because we had among us the potential for great violence if needed for our defense. I was only a kid, but that was obvious even then.

[smoogatz]

156. The second amendment

was intended as a means of maintaining an armed, militarized populace--a well regulated militia--the better to repel foreign invaders. It was most assuredly never intended as a means of arming a reactionary rabble, determined to overthrow the very constitution that defends them.

As for King and the Panthers, you've got your historical wires crossed. The Panthers never acted as "enforcers" for King, and in fact both camps mutually disliked and distrusted one another. Only the most paranoid and racist J. Edgar Hoover types would have made the leap you're making and assumed that they somehow acted in concert.

As for the effectiveness of the farm worker strikes: good thing conditions are so much better now.

It does seem to me that you're defending the militancy of the teabagger idiots, as though it's somehow good for the republic that they're armed, stupid and dangerous. So that makes me wonder about where you're coming from: it's evident to me that the teabaggers are unhappy about having lost the election to a black guy, but otherwise have no clue what they're protesting, or what principles they're trying to defend. They certainly don't give a good god-damn about the Constitution or the orderly transfer of power, and their only loyalty is ideological: they love their country as long as they're in power (or think they are), but the minute they lose big in a national election they start waving the guns around and making thinly-veiled threats--sometimes not so thinly veiled, in fact. There's nothing to support in that kind of behavior--it's just brownshirt thuggery, the exact opposite of everything progressivism is about.

[Goldstein1984]

158. I believe that the Founders

who, as I said, had just used arms to overthrow there "lawful" government, were well aware of the implications of an armed people.

I never said that the Panthers or any other organization served as enforcers for King. They were a distinct be serious alternative to nonviolent action.

When I used the word "enforcers" in reference to those among the picketers who were responsible for the safety of the workers, it was not meant to imply they worked the violent will of the picketers. Guardians or body guards might have been a better choice. They were certainly there, and the were certainly intended to be a warning of violence to anybody who used violence against the picketers. I was a kid of about 17, but I remember well the axe handles and cut off shovel and rake handles they used instead the of flimsy sticks the rest used to carry their signs. And there never was any violence.

The farm workers won their battles. The setbacks for migrant workers have come with a change in laws. The orderly migration of migrant workers into California in the spring, and the orderly exit in the fall, is gone. Several years after the strikes, I worked at a store, Herb's Surplus in Stockton, California that sold the workers rakes, hoes and cherry buckets every spring, and .38-super handguns when they moved south every fall (yes, it was illegal for them to bring handguns back with them). I believe the laws were changed precisely to rob them of the gains they won as organized labor--an illegal workforce has little bargaining power.

The Teabaggers are detestable, racist, mostly White people who see the world they are so comfortable in disappearing into a multiracial nation where they are no longer in Power. The irony is that these people were always what they are now--stooges of the Right Wing--powerless tools--too stupid to know their own history. Those who showed up and public meetings, protests, and Obama functions wearing firearms were part of a lunatic fringe that doesn't represent the typical American or the typical gun owner. That said, they should be considered a legitimate threat, though not a legitimate voice.

The kind of activism I want to see is the kind I engaged in two weeks ago. It was our 31st anniversary, and we decided to order a pair of rings with an Alaska Native theme (my wife is Alaska Native). We walked past one locally owned jewelry shop with an Anchorage Chamber of Commerce decal in the window. We entered another jewelry shop without the logo and asked the owner whether he was a member of the Anchorage Chamber of Commerce. He said no. We told him we'd like to do business with him, in preference to a Chamber of Commerce member, because of the unpopular views of the National CoC. We ordered locally designed and constructed rings made of Alaska gold. When I picked up the rings yesterday, the owner told me he'd mentioned my views to other Downtown merchants, and they were quite offended and upset about those views. Then he thanked me for my business and said he looked forward to seeing us on our next anniversary. We upset the merchants--good. We gave positive reinforcement to behavior (non-CoC membership) that we condone--good. No violence. Clear message. A good mix of support for what we endorse and boycotting of what we do not. If millions of people were to do that kind of thing routinely, there might be some impact. We spent only about $1000 on the rings. If a million people did that, it would create $1 billion in economic impact. If applied to routine purchases, it would have trillions in economic impact.

[rasputin1952]

141. They also gave us a Constitution that left several ways to...

challenge the government; all of them quite less than insurrection. "...peacefully petition the government for redress of grievances". The power of the vote is the most obvious though.

Jefferson did not put his statement into the Constitution, it was one of many things he and Adams wrote about, some good, most average and some bad.

[Goldstein1984]

145. The first thing any revolutionary government does

is make further revolution illegal.

Jefferson was the primary author of the Declaration of Independence, any influence he had on the Constitution, since he was in France while it was being written, was indirect and through his influence on Madison.

I disagree that the Tree of Liberty statement was just one of the many things he and Adams wrote about. Any student of Jefferson knows that he wrote nothing without clear conviction and intent. Jefferson even proposed that each generation should be given the right to create it's own government, rather than being forced to work with the one they had inherited. Such beliefs, as well as his support for the French Revolution and those, like Thomas Paine, who participated in it, clearly tell us that Jefferson meant what he wrote.

[rasputin1952]

146. Both Jefferson and Paine denounced the French Revolution...

as soon as they got word of the Reign of Terror. Initially, the FR was about freedom and equality...it turned quite quickly into something quite nasty. I shudder to think of this nation if it had taken the route of the FR.

One of the reasons we didn't intervene, was because we too weak at that point, another was distance...one that was not, was that the French were our allies during the latter part of the Revolution. The vast majority of Americans were appalled that the French too the route they did.

Essentially...this was a bad comparison.

[Goldstein1984]

150. Anything comparison to the French is, basically, a bad comparison

(Sorry. Couldn't resist.)

But it wasn't as simple as first supporting and then condemning. Jefferson stood by the French people long after his contemporaries had condemned them. And Paine had good reason to condemn the path of the French Revolution, since he was jailed there for not supporting the violent path it took. Paine was too radical, too democratic, for our natural aristocracy. His "Age of Reason" angered the Christians. Democracy was considered synonymous with mob rule at that time, and Paine's advocacy of democracy was viewed as support for exactly the kind of thing (e.g. Shays Rebellion) the Founders were fighting to maintain order.

My only point was that our nation was born in violence (after trying peaceful alternatives). The Second Amendment institutionalized the constant threat of violence as a means of solving problems when peaceful methods fail. It goes without saying that violence is always a last resort. It also goes without saying that the Teabaggers are extremists, probably without a legitimate claim to sanity, and they are not reacting to tyranny, but simply to seeing their status quo--a White, Christian nation--being challenged.

I lived through the Civil Rights Era. I listened to my Conservative family members discuss the changes they were seeing. I was punished for asking questions. And I remember distinctly that my family members feared the Black Panther Party, and the Weather Underground. Peace is most attractive when viewed against the alternative.

As I wrote in another post, this is as much discussion of violence as I feel comfortable with, since academic discussion of the subject, even as a historical fact, seems to be viewed as advocacy on DU.

(Two years ago, I was walking on a trail along the river behind our house. I was charged by a bear. My German shepherd charged in and threatened 600 pounds of bear with as much violence as his 90 pounds could promise. My preference would have been a peaceful walk with brother bear and brother Bruno; what I was presented was a threat of violence; and I was very comfortable with the threat of violence offered by Bruno on my behalf--a threat of violence countered a threat of violence, and the end result was peace. Life can be too complicated for some of our favorite platitudes to explain.)

[winyanstaz]

155. Just so you know....

The French people did everything else first before they resorted to the guillotine.
The French people were in squalor far far worse than what many third world countries today endure.
They were beaten down and beaten up and abused, raped, imprisoned, tortured and cheated and stolen from and their children used for far longer than Americans were were EVER abused by the British and the French people had a hell of a lot more to be angry about.
When you abuse a people so badly and for so long, you need to expect that one day they will snap.
What was done was indeed bloody and terrible..but it saved many more lives than it took and gave the French people..at long last..a much deserved and long overdue freedom.
My ever so great grandparents were among those who got their necks cut off and many had to flee (many to here in the New World) and there is many a castle and lands in France that my family lost.
But I am still happy for the people of France that they were able, at long last, to overthrow the great evil that was being perpetrated upon them and very glad that they were finally able to take the boots of my ancestors off their necks.

[Goldstein1984]

159. My German grandparents did the same

My grandfather's side of the family became very rich because of WWII and shrewd placement of their wealth. My grandmother's side of the family ended up in East Germany after the war and committed suicide one-by-one.

The French people did put up with a lot, and that certainly explains their anger and reaction. There situation was not like the colonies, who, let's face it, were primarily driven by the impact of British rule on commerce.

It was one of the well-known contradictions about Jefferson that he lived among the French aristocracy and political elite when in France, but sided with the masses when they revolted.

[dotymed]

185. I understand your point.

I am against the violence and bloodshed that an armed insurrection would cause. What to me is horrific, is that we have a police state, and most of the "law enforcement" community will follow orders to violently disperse protesters. They are not taught that their job is to "serve and protect us", they serve and protect the status quo. Ironically, most of these people are Union members. Ideally, they would not go against (non-violent) protesters. Unfortunately, many "peace officers" are ex-military or people who enjoy exercising their "authority". They are not taught and do not realize that their "authority" comes from, "we the people." We have such high unemployment in America (About 20%), that if all of the unemployed, non-violently protested, we would have approximately 6 million protesters. Those kind of numbers can make changes in our country...fast. Again catch 22, the MSM does not report what actually goes on in America (thus tea baggers) so a lot of those people believe that the corporations aren't controlling America, so protesting becomes non-unified in its goals. That is why, I hope we can (within a year at most) create a viable third party with leaders like Bernie Sanders, Alan Grayson, Dennis Kucinich..etc, whose ideas and follow through, would appeal to the masses of Americans, tea baggers too. We really need publicly financed elections. It is really a vicious circle, meant to thwart the will of the people. There has to be a way.

[howaboutme]

165. Excuse me?

Since you are replying to my post and not the OP, I'll have to ask where I specifically supported armed insurrection or REVOLUTION by any group? The OP was over the top imo. It was based upon opinion not fact.

I fully encourage and support that all Americans get involved and peacefully demonstrate on the street if necessary, in favor of their issues. Most Americans have become docile puppets to the elite because they are either too busy working 3 jobs or too busy watching sports or American Idol. Every American needs to get re-engaged with government regardless of their ideology. That is the only way we will get our government back from our corporate owned politicians.

[smoogatz]

128. Another defender of the indefensible.

Threatening armed insurrection if you don't get your way is kind of the opposite of patriotism. Peaceful protests are great, I'm all for them no matter what your political persuasion, ditto general strikes of the European variety--these tend to be very effective, in fact. But the not-too-subtle threat of armed rebellion is simple extortion. Advocating the armed overthrow of the duly elected government is pretty much the definition of treason, as others have pointed out.

[gtar100]

134. Particularly when that duly elected government was elected by a strong majority.

These tea-baggers lost in the election quite indisputably. Obama didn't win because of a Supreme Court decision or in near 50/50 election filled with disenfranchisement, irregularities and problematic electronic voting machines. The majority voted for Obama by a clear margin. So that makes their protests disrespectful and insulting to the very country they espouse to love. Not to mention that so many of their assertions and complaints have proven demonstrably false.

But from what I've read of history, time after time it's the people who are willing to commit violence against the people who are just trying to live their lives that typically end up in control. I see it today in our business and political environments that are so sickeningly corrupt. So we really owe it to ourselves and our children to be vigilant when it comes to these tea-baggers. They are armed and delusional - a bad combination.

[axollot]

164. We didn't say if we didnt get our 'way' at the ballot box -

that we would go to the bullet box.

I don't think anyone has an issue with what the Tea-Baggers have to say - because of their right to say it.

Personally, I draw the line at "calling for an armed revolution" because they do not care for a Democratically elected government, it really doesn't fit their agenda. So there is a huge difference.

There are many ways to protest that are highly effective that do not require taking up arms. That is the issue here - their rhetoric is lame for sure but saying they want an armed revolution?!? We've already had a really bloody civil war.

Cheers
Sandy

[Faith No More]

97. They're not delusional, they're just plain assholes

Every shithead republican I've ever known has been a thoughtless, selfish asshole who takes pleasure in seeing those less fortunate suffer. As long as they have theirs screw everybody else is their motto.

[Goldstein1984]

116. "...tracked by all the appropriate agencies."

If they are being tracked by all the "appropriate agencies," then maybe they have a point.

They're just a bunch of illiterate loudmouthes. If they were a credible threat, they wouldn't be telegraphing their intentions.

[east texas lib]

190. Agreed. Rattling a saber is usually noisy, drawing it to strike usually is not. (nt)

[n2doc]

2. Bring it on, MF'ers

That bunch of out of shape, cheeto-eating morans don't have the courage to back up their words. And if they did try to shoot, more than likely they would shoot themselves or one of their buddies.

[tango-tee]

22. Whenever I read or hear what one of these asswipes spouts,

I feel as though someone just stepped on my ingrown toenail. Man, it hurts. It doesn't make my synapses fire and process and come to the realization that this person just said something really, really stupid which I could possibly refute, but they fire and process and make me want to kick his ass. Bury my boot in his butt so deep he'll taste shoe polish for a month. And that's the ladylike side of me talking.

[grasswire]

45. nice talk, girlfriend!

J/K. Welcome to DU!

[tango-tee]

49. Hey.

:blush:

Thanks for the welcome... I'm a bit on the shy side.

[icnorth]

58. Welcome t.t.

and if that's a demo of your shy side remind me never to incite you to cross over to the dark side.... :toast:

[tango-tee]

79. Thank you

for the welcome :fistbump:

I'm shivering over here in Germany, it's just a tad bit chilly out there, gloomy and ugly. Getting all worked up over an issue is good for the circulation at my age!

[rasputin1952]

107. Where are you in Deutschland?

I was stationed in Wiesbaden back in 80/81...loved every minute of it...:D

[tango-tee]

136. Nuremberg,

for better or worse. Born here, but lived in the USA for nearly 20 years before returning once my Mom had a stroke. So happy to hear you enjoyed your stay in Wiesbaden.

Hugs back atcha, Rasputin!

[rasputin1952]

139. I would have enjoyed seing Nuremburg...

Went all over Europe except France, GB and a few other places. Wiesbaden was beautiful...and the whole Rhine thing was amazing. Bavaria was exquisite, and the Black Forest was incredible.

Made it to Berlin when it was still split by the Wall...and although I never thought that monstrosity would come down in my lifetime...I was there in spirit when it did come down...(I was ecstatic...:D )

As for the German people...some of the nicest I've ever met...had a very interesting run in in a gasthouse near Fulda. We were eating dinner after taking over for a the Cav when they went to Baumhalter for training. As usual, the stamtisch had the local bigwigs, and one kept looking at me...kind of creepy. Eventually, he sent over word asking if my father had been in the war...to which I answered yes. He then came over and asked if my dad was a corporal in the artillery...yes again. After that, we couldn't buy anything in that place. Turns out, an artillery corporal had been on a patrol that came across this guy and his family and led them to the US lines, where they were taken further back. The soldier who started all of this, had deserted from the German Army, knowing it was all over, and wanted to make sure the Russians weren't coming further West...he had a wife and 5 daughters he was terrified the Russians might find, so he did what he thought was right. Luckily, we were off duty the next day...as the bier kept flowing...:eyes: All things considered, it was a very strange encounter. My dad passed away 4 Jul 1965, he had never mentioned anything about what he did during the war to any of us, (so I have no idea if was really my dad that came across this family)...but those nights when his buddies would be over for cards, after a few drinks, they'd open up...and my younger brother and I would listen to the stories...I learned a lot about those men on those nights...:)

Some day....I'd love to get back over there...:D

[tango-tee]

170. When you do, let me know.

I'd love to show you around.

If you are interested in the city's recent past: The Americans were right to leave Hitler's parade grounds standing, as a reminder of these horrible times. I remember seeing them when I was still small, must have been in the late 1950s, and shivering. We've now added a documentation center in that area for the victims of the Holocaust, and the courthouse where Göring and his fellow criminals had their trials is still in use.

BTW, I work with a guy from Nebraska, a fellow Democrat!

[rasputin1952]

171. D's are kind of a rare breed around here...

but the R's have screwed ups so bad, many of the locals get red-faced when remind them of bush/cheney...:rofl:

[tango-tee]

181. And I can imagine

that you remind them frequently!!! :evilgrin:

[sulphurdunn]

55. Yea.

It's not about how many guns you own or how well you shoot. It's about how well you shoot one gun when someone's shooting back.

[Initech]

66. Not just yeah, but hell yeah!

[Brickbat]

3. Nice. And the "flag" they're talking about is ASS UGLY.

And the symbolism is both hilar and horrid at the same time:

Finally, I remembered a business trip I made to Philadelphia, and the visit I made to the house of Betsy Ross, and it hit me . . . I could add the Roman numeral "II" in the center of the 13 stars and the meaning to the media and politicians would be clear: REVOLUTION . . . ROUND 2! I also thought the "II" could have two meanings: "Second" American Revolution and "Second" Amendment.

After more thought, I realized there has been "TWO" times in history when "13" came together to change the course of history for all humanity: 1) The "Last Supper" . . . Jesus and the 12 disciples, which is why many considered 13 to be unlucky. However I don't believe it was unlucky. From this group of 13 came a faith built on a Foundation of LOVE . . . . 2) Then in the 1700s, 13 colonies worked together and wrote our Constitution framed in FREEDOM. With a foundation of LOVE, framed in FREEDOM a HOUSE of LIBERTY was built for all mankind, a House which can not and should not ever go into foreclosure! It was at that moment I realized the symbol of "II" and 13 stars could represent GOD and COUNTRY, which is really what we all must now fight for, to restore LIBERTY for all humanity. This flag inspires me, and I have no doubt Betsy Ross would approve us honoring her again, by bringing her flag out to help us fight again for LIBERTY!

This flag symbolizes our fight for a LIMITED GOVERNMENT, THE RESTORATION OF OUR REPUBLIC and CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS.

I have two missions:

1) Get this flag spreading from porch to porch, so no politician can travel this country without being constantly reminded they work for us.

2) Get this flag to go viral, so I can set-up a trust where 95% of the profits would go to getting patriot candidates elected (5% would go to me so I can retire).

[Kutjara]

17. At first glance, I had a different interpretation.

The "II" in the middle of the 13 stars looks like the "pause" button on VCR/DVR remote controls. So the flag seems to be delivering the message that it wants to pause the country 230 years ago. Perhaps the "<<" rewind graphic would have been more appropriate?

[progressoid]

28. Pause button! That was my first thought too!

idiots

[Joe the Liberal]

73. At first glance I also had a different interpretation.....

I thought the "II" represented the world trade center, the twin towers, from 9/11. You know how tea baggers always wanted to go back to that "feeling" of how they felt on 9/11? The ultra-macho-patriotism they felt and how they had to get back at those "durty muzlinz" no matter what. I like your interpretation more though because it makes perfect sense of how tea baggers are stuck in the past. I think the following flags would be more appropriate for them.....

[immoderate]

31. WTF? The number thirteen is really lucky? Who wudda thunk it?

:shrug:

--imm

[rasputin1952]

108. Jeez...talk about the spiral of insanity...

:scared:

[Djarun]

110. Looks like a pause symbol on the remote control to me...

[NightWatcher]

4. 'cause none of us latte sipping libs would ever touch an icky gun....

and none of us are former military and/or special forces
hehehe

[elehhhhna]

13. sssssshhhh! let's surprise 'em.

[frog92969]

52. A lot of us lefties bought those bullets

He has no clue what an epic fail he's pushing for.

[DeschutesRiver]

57. You are 100% correct about that

I am one of many who are also responsible for the ammo sales. It is nothing different than I've done all my life but this time it coincided with a run on ammo by panicked repubs who were suckers to those quoting false info in order to stoke up sales in a tough economy. I was just buying like I usually would; however if they really "take up arms", they will get the everlovin' shit scared down their pant legs when they realize that there are people on the other side who aren't scared of such things.

What a bunch of myopic dopes - their penchant for stereotyping behavior and people is going to result in them getting the shock of their lives, should they ever leave their Lazyboys and bbq long enough to walk out further than the end of their driveways.

I live in a remote rural ranching community, and I happen to know that I am not alone. And I am not concerned about their rants in the slightest.

[cliffordu]

172. That's right.

And some can shoot very well indeed.
:evilgrin:

[fascisthunter]

5. please do so... start today... good luck with that

[Hayabusa]

6. Sheesh... I may have to go to the gun store myself...

to protect me from these loons. That's freakin' scary.

[ck4829]

7. It's funny that teabaggers think they're the only ones who buy or use guns

They really do live in a magical world.

[Mopar151]

77. Seems to be a hallmark of these jackasses

They cannot even conceive why anyone would think differently. Or they think that one more E-mail lie or bullshit threat is gonna cause 100 million people to have some kinda fuckin' epiphany.

[caveat_imperator]

105. Sounds like creationist thinking

When I go on forums that talk about evolution pretty much every creationist argument is a lie about evolution that they think people who've studied science will fall for without question.

[Codeine]

9. Like all Americans

of extremist political persuasion the Teabaggers are too fat, too lazy, too soft, and too comfortable to actually do anything but whine like the overfed toddlers that they are. Not a damned one will actually put down their pizza and their cigarettes long enough to accomplish jack shit.

[NightWatcher]

11. you said it, "soft"

[YOY]

14. Yup.

n.t.

[havocmom]

19. Bad thinking might get you hurt. Tim McVeigh was not fat nor soft

Didn't seem lazy either, from what I have read.

And even fatter, lazy blokes can pull a trigger against the unarmed. There is a coward whose trial is just getting under way who proved that point.

Coping an attitude that one's foes are all easy is pretty much the mistake the tea-baggers make. Not wise to emulate them in that error.

[mrcheerful]

36. But they will show up at militia training camp grounds to shoot up junk cars and wheeze

their way through the obstacle course just to prove how tough they are. I seen those 30 second militia training videos, but reality is they tend to take more beer breaks then actually train.

[Caretha]

68. Just google the pics

from their meetings...who are they kidding?

[Djarun]

112. Sound like you are describing members Congress

[HughBeaumont]

12. You realize if any one of US talked like this, we'd be arrested?

When is it too late to write someone off as merely an "all-talk loon"? When they turn a library into a bloodbath?

And what the fuck "TYRANNY" are they talking about? Does "tyranny" mean "No Republican President"? Hyperbole much?

[Blue-Jay]

15. I'd like to encourage the teabaggers to take up arms.

That'll work out just perfectly.

[anachro1]

99. Take up arms?

First they should firm up those flabby arms before they pick anything up.

[MisterP]

16. so many Prussian Blue fans... nt

[GreenMetalFlake]

18. good luck with that

[OffWithTheirHeads]

20. And what an imposing force they'll make

The very thought of these folks, fully armed, running through the inner cities gunning down librrrrruls truly strikes fear in my heart!



O.K. Maybe not.

[rasputin1952]

113. Fully half of the people in that pic look eligible for SS...

and I have to wonder if the woman in the w/c is receiving SSI.

NO Public Option
NO Single Payer
No Socialism

OK...let's take away Medicare and Medicaid...and just drop Social Security benefits as well. Immediately, no recourse, unheralded...just stop it all...and if they can't pay for their own health-care, then they should simply die...that is the option they leave others.




I wonder how far that would go?

(Is the woman up front making a fashion statement)

[anonymous171]

21. So? Who gives a shit? This is why the police and military exist. nt

[Caretha]

69. + 1

ROFLMFAO

ain't it the truth, heh

[Canuckistanian]

24. I just glad they're idiots and can't organize anything serious

Besides, they're fractured politically. There are the "Biblical Law" crazies and the "Ron Paul Libertarians", not to mention the "Radical Strict Constructionists".

I doubt whether they could organize a large children's party without corporate buses and paid-for halls, let alone an armed rebellion.

[cartach]

63. As my Dad used to say -

Couldn't organize a lineup to a one hole shithouse.

[Canuckistanian]

64. That's good

I'll have to remember that

[LeftinOH]

25. Let us not allow them (or anyone else) to forget that Teabaggers=Republicans..

-the Teabaggers' "nonpartisan" stance is complete bullshit. May they completely take over the Republican party.

[Iggo]

26. Bring.It.On. (n/t)

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

27. Tea Bagger weekend day

Make new protest signs.(Note to sef - wotch speling!)

Play paintball

Make more venison jerky for coming Apocalypse

Watch Red Dawn

Send annoying mass emails to relatives

[Caretha]

71. Hehehehe

[Tsar_Bomba]

29. Let them try.

I say kia 50 teabaggers for every one they harm.

[OffWithTheirHeads]

30. et yer T-bag special forces MRE's here

?w=280

[OffWithTheirHeads]

32. Tea bagger Special Forces

[Codeine]

38. Teabagger Commander in Chief

[grasswire]

47. that dude can't even get out of his big boy bed

geez.

[tango-tee]

82. Mercy.

All I have to do is to keep looking at this picture and it will save me several weeks worth of Weight Watchers membership dues. Immediate - and lasting - loss of appetite.

Isn't it strange? This person shown in all his coarseness and vulgarity is a sight I can't get away from. It is very odd how fascinating someone so repelling can be. A face devoid of any sign of intelligence beyond that of a 10W light bulb. What's frightening is that there are bound to be many of them out there, and I'm willing to bet they're not on our side.

[dorktv]

174. Sexy!

:puke:

[chat_noir]

34. YouTube: Crabill "before we have to resort to the bullet box"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=paeuC-i8E1o


One of her favorite quotes from her web page:

"The most important consequence of marriage is, that the husband and the wife become in law only one person... Upon this principle of union, almost all the other legal consequences of marriage depend. This principle, sublime and refined, deserves to be viewed and examined on every side." - James Wilson, Of the Natural Rights of Individuals, 1792

[Edweird]

35. Meh. Big talk from chickenshits. You help them by buying into it.

[votingupstart]

91. +1 n/t

[SteveM]

109. Uh, well, you got that right! Please folks, no culture war of this crap...

Most tea-bagger demonstrations draw about as many folks as a post-holiday week-night demonstration in the late 60s. They're tooling with you and gettin' off to it.

Such brave talk. If you think there is such a problem with tea-baggers, confront them. Don't blow it out here.

[kentauros]

39. It's really too bad that they're not smart enough to realize

that the people running this country were not elected.

Have they considered an armed revolution against the top 1%, starting with the banksters? Or perhaps, starting with all the individuals on the boards of the top 500 corporations? Probably not...

[OI812]

41. Let's just outlaw guns...that'll show em!

:shrug:

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

51. That pesky Constitution always get's in the way.

:shrug:

[OffWithTheirHeads]

67. Well, the top 2% would be happy.

[votingupstart]

92. not sure if your serious.....

perhaps my sarcasm detector is not properly calibrated.......

[bridgit]

42. Bring their Cialis addled 'men' forward with their popguns, they'll be shooting...

themselves in their feet in no time & talking in tongues, or better yet - I'll get these 5-6, 8-11yr old boys here in my neighborhood I have in mind, hand them a bag of balloons and a garden hose and we'll wash their dumb storm-front asses down the storm drain and into the shit tank for processing
:kick:

[grasswire]

43. my sister, retired librarian, has joined the NRA

she's never held a gun in her life. She joined the NRA this year. She's a dittohead and a tea bagger.

[Dappleganger]

44. Nuts like this are one large reason why I have a ccw license.

[bridgit]

48. I maintain mine

[RagAss]

84. They're the reason some of us don't have a license.......!

[old mark]

46. The Really Right have been saying this for years now, and I hope some Democrats

finally understand that THEY MEAN IT!
RWers BELIEVE that their way is the American ideal, and that they have the support of god, while we Dems/Liberals/Socialists/Nazis/Commies-all the same thing to them-are the forces of anti-god totalitarianism from Europe (Russia).
If they win an election that's god's will. If they LOSE an election, it's an evil plot and tyrannical and we all deserve death...and they are mentally prepared to kill us.

They are not kidding, people-they are waiting for someone to take an obvious first step.

mark

[galileoreloaded]

59. You are, of course, quite correct. I know too many of these folks here in AZ,

and they are very committed and dedicated to their cause. Folks here assume that the folks on TV are the totality of that group, and they are very wrong. Laugh and do the keyboard commando thing, but I believe that discretion is the better part of prudence.

They are in my opinion waiting for a watershed event or personality, to kick it off.

[ekwhite]

96. That's more of an Arizona thing

Hell - I used to go out in the desert and shoot stuff up. I lost interest in it when I moved to California.

[galileoreloaded]

163. HA! Never thought about that. Folks are ......a little off here....N/T

[SteveM]

111. Agreed. Unlike some folks 'round here, they take politics SERIOUSLY...

The far right is deadly serious about getting and holding power. Permanently. That's why I can't understand some pants-wetters around here who blow so mightily about tea-baggers, while telling us to disarm. Such grand logic. And it tells the world that the "left" ain't really serious about their views: Just blow it out on the internet and council private, anonymous hatreds. Oh! and disarm yourselves, too.

[mstinamotorcity]

50. Ignorance at its lowest level

What the f--k up with that?You know i heard of dumb but this ridiculous imbecile has not looked around the country yet.I mean who is his revolution going to be against?Does he truly think that everyone thinks in the sane manner as he?I don't know why these tea baggers get it twisted.This is an America that has changed in culture and in population.Do they think they are the only ones with guns?If it wasn't for some of us rational thinking people they would have been gotten their asses f--ked around.Nobody is playing with them crazy sons of b--ches believe that.They don't understand this is a new generation and a younger generation with very little patience for threats.When they stand and protest they always make sure there is police presence.And who's to say that police will keep their ass safe.We are a nation of laws and it is up to us to set the standard but,when you see fools like this it makes you want to go out and find the first tea bagger you see and pow to the moon alice.

[whistler162]

53. And yet the people seem to gobble these stories up

no matter how fanciful they are!

[mstinamotorcity]

54. Maybe if they spent more

time doing what tea bagging really is,we would not hear from them.Pretty hard to talk with your mouth full.}( }( }(

[whistler162]

102. So you want to be the one to tell the author of this thread

and the person who article what tea bagging refers to?

[mstinamotorcity]

154. Jeffery M and Catherine C

are not my cup of tea and i don't have a problem with telling them what it really means.

[Arugula Latte]

60. Domestic Terrorists.

Throw 'em in prison.

They have no problem with "preemptive war," so they shouldn't have any problem with preemptive imprisonment.

[TransitJohn]

61. Those guys are idiots.

Our 2nd Amendment right is there so that the government doesn't have a standing army. Duh.

[Patchuli]

62. These people are traitors to the United States of America

and the feds should be picking them up. Enough already.

[winyanstaz]

76. and what about the people making toilet paper out of the Constitution..

and giving away your civil rights?
(No I'm not a tea-bagger..just saying some of them might be only angry that we are in such a mess)
As a lot are little old people...I dont think they really want a war. I think they are making a big noise because they are angry and frightened.
Yes there are a lot of ignorant racists in the movement as well and I dont approve of them for one second either.

[JVS]

70. The government should provoke them and then arrest them.

[Mopar151]

78. Teabaggers - Look left and right, front and back

Out of those 4, one is already an informant, or will fold like a Twinkie wrapper at the threat of an HOUR in jail.

[Union Yes]

81. Teabaggers are choosing to be enemies of America. knr nt

[RagAss]

83. Thorazine for Everyone !!!

[LatteLibertine]

85. Ya'

well some of us Libs like the second amendment, own firearms and know how to use them too.

[Mithreal]

86. The ultra wealthy and powerful are potentially more dangerous and lethal than the teabaggers.

If these teabaggers and their family, friends and acquaintances had jobs, were not having their homes and retirements stolen, were not seeing people they love or at least care about die from lack of health care, were not full of righteous but misdirected rage, this whole movement could be defused.

[greengestalt]

87. Gold will be their trigger

I've noticed the ultra right "Tea Bagger" movement is pure commercialism, with the same rich elite moneymen who caused this recession/depression selling to them, or at least likely providing the loans that pay for the speculators on them. They'll rush to buy ANY gun at high prices, stock up on so much ammo they drive copper prices higher than the Chinese can, ensuring good years for Meth heads. They buy tons of "Survivalist" gear... They donate to right wing and "Christian" charities I wouldn't touch with a penny...


But, last and certainly LEAST they buy gold like mad.

Now, I've heard the same "Attack any detractors, base arguments on other's corruption" ala Carl Sagan's "Baloney Detection Kit". The same sales pitch for the Dot.com boom, the Housing boom... It's all said about Gold.


The real sad irony of Gold is that only until this century did it have any real, practical use with the exception of dentistry. Semiconductors for instance. Everything else was fictional and while things do have the value you place in them, it's amazing how many people were killed to obtain, steal or hoard gold. Gold does have value to primal man, when he found bits he could easily shape it into a perfectly round "Sling" stone and then due to it's shine he could find it again most times after he threw it. Later, one of the very first legal cases involved a person who was cheated by an axe that was either Iron Jacketed or just Bronze with a ton of Gold impurities mixed in, in either case ruining it's use.


Gold is not a currency, it is a commodity. Therefore, it's only use is in trade between people willing to buy or sell it. Currently, the people that sell it charge high, but don't buy or if they do, scalp viciously. And if it was that valuable, why would anyone be willing to part with it and advertize it?


I'm sure it's another engineered boom/bust where the people that started it (?Goldman Sachs Bank? just a guess) are going to sell it to people at a high price, then buy it back from them for a pittance when they crash the price.


And when that happens, the "Tea Baggers" probably will take their guns and turn to violence. Probably a collection of "Robin Hood" robberies and assassinations of officials and "Deviants".

[plantwomyn]

127. If the shit hits the fan

Gold won't be worth it's weight to carry. Ask the Haitians how much gold is worth to them right now. Sure it can get you gasoline but you can't drink or eat gas. 9mm 22mm 30-06 and .308 would be worth carrying instead. Better yet water filters, nutrition bars, batteries and medical supplies! Let them buy gold. When I decide I want some I'll take it from them at gunpoint.
BTW, the government is selling these idiots most of the surplus ammo they buy. Wish they carried 9mm.
Being a lesbian, I have always felt being armed and dangerous was the better part of valor. The rednecks in my area know I am a better shot than they are and they give me a wide berth. Having 2 90 lb dogs doesn't hurt either.

[greengestalt]

191. Exactly

In case of a survival scenario, the granola bars, potable water, filters for water, lighters, knives, etc. will be worth far more. In case of an extended time in such a scenario, perhaps some silver will be good -though that's inflated now also- but gold is what people murder each other for. Otherwise, the money they spend buying gun after gun and pieces of gold could be turned into many times the amount in survival items.

[leveymg]

88. If Lefties talked that way, they'd be No-Fly-Listed, terrorism task forced, and COINTELPROed

Is the FBI even paying attention to the ammo-stocking Right-wing bullet boxers, or do the Feds have no time for that because they're too busy infiltrating Quaker meeting halls?

[Mithreal]

89. Rightwingers aggressively take away people's Constitutional rights

Posting a link related to your comment, though I hesitate because the poster has been TS'd.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=103&topic_id=510128&mesg_id=510128

[leveymg]

138. Saw that reference to the article quoting Sunstein

Cas Sunstein is a U Chicago law professor and has long been the token house liberal in an otherwise aggressively conservative institution. I read a couple of his books 10-15 years ago, and noted to myself that he's no liberal and certainly no libertarian. I was not impressed by the quality of his legal writing and argumentation, which struck me as being superficial and muddled. During the campaign, I was a bit troubled by reports that Sunstein had been tapped to advise Obama, who is a friend, and former colleague at U Chic. Law. In 2006, Sunstein was quoted as arguing that Bush's decision to conduct surveillance of Americans without court approval flowed from Congress's vote to allow an armed struggle against al-Qaeda. "If you can kill them, why can't you spy on them?" Sunstein said.

Am similarly willing to give Prof. Obama the benefit of the doubt about where he actually comes down on constitutional rights, but have to admit that my doubts are beginning to run thin behind which a cold light of reality is visible.

[PM Martin]

166. Perhaps many in law "enforcement" sympathize with the teabaggers?

[Mithreal]

175. The law enforcement members in my family are all rightwingers that spout nonsense.

Would be interesting to see if there is any data. I know enough not to judge all cops.

[ProfessorGAC]

90. Has This Been Forwarded to HSD, Or Secret Service?

I think that by using an interstate communication system these threats constitute a violation of the law.

Maybe the authorities would like to see this.
GAC

[RedCloud]

93. teabaggers cross state lines with intent to disrupt, but nothing...

We would be getting our skulls cracked if we did that to W's no mandate government.

[ProfessorGAC]

104. Unfortunately, You're Probably Right

Still, there's a difference between protesting and inciting violence against the government.
GAC

[jmpnfool]

94. these guys need to understand

some of us "libruls" are at least as well armed as them and wont take this stuff sitting down.

[anachro1]

98. We can only pray that

once all their useless efforts amount to nothing, they turn these guns on themselves.

[Xenotime]

101. They need to know that sort of action will not be tolerated.

I sure hope Homeland Securtiy has a watch on them.

[geckosfeet]

106. What an a$$hole.

Presumably he understands that America will shoot back.

[SteveM]

114. Whoo-WEE! No one'll every confuse DU as a bastion of civil rights (nt)

[ProfessorGAC]

117. Duh!

.

[SteveM]

130. Glad you agree. Some folks don't seem to realize it when they advocate...

authoritarian, police-state round-ups of "traitorous" people.

I think some folks here ought just to shut up on the I-net, and go to a tea-bagger rally and mix it up. Otherwise, it's just passing gas.

[Paladin]

122. Go Play With Your Guns. (n/t)

[SteveM]

129. You should know: Responsible folks don't play with guns. Do you?

Take a look upstream and see if you can find some blatantly anti-democratic, authoritarian, even police-state actions advocated.

It shouldn't take long.

[TreeHugnLibra]

118. All it takes is one.

While most people want a change of some sort, Liberals base their desire for change on equality--on the country as a whole, equal health care, equal education, equal marital rights, etc. and recognize that some sacrifice on individuals is necessary for that change; while Conservatives and teabaggers base their desire on fear of having something taken away from them--taxes, God, gun rights, etc. That's how it's presented to them through their pundits--not that paying taxes could produce programs that benefit everyone (universal healthcare, for example), but that tax is the government stealing your money. When people feel that they are threatened in some way, when something is being taken from them, they often panic and feel desperate. Desperate people do desperate things.
99.999% of the people won't do anything but complain, but all it takes is one person who thinks he'll be a hero. I think someone already mentioned Timothy McVeigh....

[sam sarrha]

125. yea... they dont think we'll shoot back. a lot of conceal/carry'rs got the permit for protection

from them..

[Goldstein1984]

126. The Teabaggers are responding, in part, to a lot of the same

corruption of government that Progressives condemn. They just have their own agenda and a very twisted view of the correct social and political order.

Individually, if Teabaggers really posed a threat of violence they wouldn't be bragging about it on television. All we really have to fear from them is the power of stupid people in large numbers.

[ThomThom]

135. the problem is they don't know who the real enemy is

they think it is liberals that are messing everything up
corporations are controlling their lives and their every thoughts
it is so sad to watch

[newspeak]

137. what I see is the teabaggers are the defenders of the status quo

Y'all see any networks announcing where to go for the massive anti-war protest? Well, I saw plenty of talking heads on the networks announcing where you could go and join the teabaggers. I am not really an Obama fan because he, to me, maintains the status quo. But, the teabaggers were no where to be found when * was trampling on the constitution (habeas corpus, posse comitatus, illegal wiretapping)-where were the teabaggers then? Or how about lying us into a war with Iraq or failing to act on the PDB report. Or remember the anthrax attacks before the passing of the unpatriotic act? WHERE WERE THEY?

Obama has been in office about a year and now they're all in a tizzy. Simply amazing-they apparently are mesmerized by their great ignorant, hate spewing heroes, like Limpballs, O'lielly and Beck. Ya know those guys remind me of someone who was hanged at Nuremberg, someone else who spread such ignorance and hate, I think his name was Julius Steicher (sp). Taxes, especially for the rich have been cut drastically since Reagan--maybe the clueless can count--that if a president lies you into war (which we pay for) and shovels billions of our money to their greedy, piggy war profiteering friends and cut taxes on the wealthiest, that something is going to snap. But, oh no, they think that paying taxes is the only thing that matters-not about public schools closing or bridges falling down, or highways in disrepair or unemployment for those who have lost their decent jobs or libraries closing or help for children or help for the elderly. No, they think their masters (corporations) are the fix--that they can run the schools, the military, the prisons--yeah, for profit and with no accountability to others. They live in a fascist nightmare that I don't want to reside in with them.

But try telling them that they're being used by the very people that have caused more harm to this country. They'd "cut off their nose to spite their face." I sincerely doubt that many progressives and teabaggers have much in common. I wish we did, because to me, we are being purposely divided to keep the plebes in line, but try telling them that--they're puppets for the status quo.

[earcandle]

140. I think the issues are messy enough that most people will just follow a herd.

Are they fighting for the same reasons we would fight? No. 
Are we getting what we want?  No.
Peanut gallery, we are in.  

They are violent.  We are not. 

Let the army knock em off, if they are that stupid. 
To fight against your own best interests is insanity. 

Just stay out of the way.
IMNSHO. 

[onehandle]

142. Teabaggers with guns =

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

168. onehandle with internet connection=

kneejerk bigotry

[onehandle]

177. No, I'm not a fan of McVeigh.

Sorry if I offended you.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

178. You are completely incapable of offending me. I do appreciate the effort though.

:toast: I love you guys.

[spanone]

143. as their version of jesus said 'bring it on'

[KansDem]

147. You know, this attitude goes back 10 years to StolenElection2000

I remember seeing the Broward County "recount" debacle in a news video. There were these few rubes standing in the parking lot next to their cars "being vigilant" in making sure Al Gore didn't "steal" the election via the recount.

I don't remember how the reporter got to this particular spot in the interview, but a couple of the rubes let it be known they had the solution to any recount "problems" in their trunks...

It was a little frightening then...now it's just ludicrous

[caraher]

149. It goes all the way back to the events that spawned DU

I remember helping organize events calling for all ballots to be counted in Florida in 2000 and got the same rhetoric from a proto-teabagger who joined the online group. Things like "the 2nd Amendment was put in place to prevent things like this." I tended to ignore it until he said he was going to come with a gun to one of our protests, making vague threats about using it. This gave me pause since we were bringing our boys to these events. In the end I decided he was all bluster and no balls, and thankfully events upheld my judgment.

But as we've seen, some of them do snap and live out their violent fantasies...

[bertman]

152. Two comments: 1) During the Russian revolution, the Bolsheviks were less than 20% of

the population.

2) There's not one single thing stopping the left wing from stocking up on their weapons and ammo--except misplaced fear of firearms.

Rec.

[galileoreloaded]

162. Aw, hell during the AMERICAN revolution only 40% supported it.

ever see a "3%" t-shirt??

From Iraq. Look close at the flag.....look familiar?? We are so much farther down this road than we want to believe.

[conscious evolution]

169. Never heard of that

Could you explain it,please?

[galileoreloaded]

176. Sure. What specifically would you likke me to explain???n/t

[bertman]

179. I'd like to know what the "3%" stands for. I saw the flag patch and I now know what that

stands for.

The photo is of someone wearing cammies but who is it? Is it a militiaman? Is it a mercenary?

A picture with no explanation leaves itself open for many interpretations.

[galileoreloaded]

180. It is a US soldier in Mosul, Iraq, with a 3% "morale patch", believe it or not. The 3%

alludes to the three percent of the colonists who took to the field against the King during the Revolution, and the estimation that at least three percent of modern Americans will actively fight, if it comes to it, to preserve liberty.

The Oathkeepers and 3%'rs are separate entities, but both tend to represent hardline active duty soldiers and LEO officers that have taken an oath to defend the Consitution, rather than the persons (including the President)or agencies/organizations giving orders that are deemed unconstitutional.

There are quite a few out there as well.

That help???

ETA: Look at the radio in his vest. Those aren't given out to PSD's. That is a US soldier.

[bertman]

182. I'm highly skeptical of that photo being a U.S. soldier. First problem, left arm

bears current unit patch and right arm bears last combat unit patch.

Second problem, wearing unauthorized insignia is a courts-martial offense. That 3% tag and the fucked up flag are in major violation of Army regs.

Third problem, having a radio doesn't mean jack, and since we cannot see anything but a convenient left-arm shot that photo could have been taken anywhere--and of anybody.

So, no, galileoreloaded, that does not help. Now, a full photo of an obviously active-duty soldier wearing that would help to authenticate it.

[galileoreloaded]

186. Uhh... thats the point. That radio is a Harris AN/PRC 152 Falcon III exclusive to DoD and allies

A joint tactical radio that not everyone can just go out and "pick up". If that isn't an American, we have a bigger problem than just patches.
Nah, pretty sure that is an American, that is the point as to why it is shocking. These folks are VERY committed to their cause it seems, so much so they are willing to take anonymous pictures wearing other than US insignia.

Last, I don't care if you believe it or not, nor whether you require pictures to be taken with a Kodak at noon in the full sun at zero zoom with the subject holding yesterdays paper. I can only provide the picture I have. You must have served, as this has clearly pissed you off.

[bertman]

188. Yes, it REALLY pisses me off if this pic is the real deal. Yes, I did a tour in Vietnam in

'68-'69.

Regarding the radio, even the super-secure ones get snatched from bodies in a firefight, or stolen from depots/quartermaster, or sold to militiamen by unscrupulous assholes, BUT assuming you are right that it is a U.S. military type, it's very disturbing to see ANY U.S. military personnel displaying that type of insignia.

Thanks for posting it.

If you come across anymore of those photos that are verifiable U.S. military types displaying them, it would be good to send them to DOD and to Americans United for Separation of Church and State, or even to someone like Rachel Maddow so it can become an "issue". This kind of stuff needs to be dealt with and dealt with harshly.

[O is 44]

160. Domestic Terrorist n/t

[KonaKane]

173. The were sunk when they picked their name.

Lunatic fringe group at best. Much ado about nothing.

[opihimoimoi]

184. Brown Shirt Divisionists who display so many Bully Traits its mindboggling

The GOP is the Weakest Link in Americas Desire to Stabilize/Advance the General Society.

[B Calm]

187. The last people I'm afraid of is tea baggers with guns. I also have

guns and they don't want to piss this old liberal combat veteran off!