A modest proposal: let's look at the positive

[northzax]

I wrote this on another thread and thought it needed more attention.

Cause that totally was working. And maybe we can scrap the single that this bill is while swinging for the fences and try again in 2030. Instead of a halfway decent start down a path that has been impassable before, we should stop and wait for another more perfect time?

How about instead of being so (pardon my language) fucking negative, we try to be a little positive for once? How bout instead of us all sitting around whinging about what we didn't get, we talk about what we will get? What the adminstration and congress has done? Let's point out that 30 days after the President signs some sort of this bill, whatever comes out of the sausage factory, it will be illegal for an insurance company to deny you coverage because you had cancer? Or kick you off the rolls because you are too expensive based on a technicality? How about we discuss the adding (yes, by mandate) of 35 million people to insurance pools, which will increase the amount of money being spent on everyone? Or maybe the subsides to help people pay for it? (you call yay a giveaway, I call it the start of the Feds having a financial stake in regulating insurance companies. All of a sudden, the Feds have skin in the game, and 50 million middle class voters paying attention.) how about we discuss the people who live in areas that have no insurance competition? Why does Blue Cross charge more in Asheville, NC than New York City for the same thing, despite higher costs in New York? (you can't tell me that a doctor charges less for a visit in New York than Asheville) and that the exchanges will bring new competition to places that haven't been worth it for companies to enter? How about the idea that this bill, as imperfect as it will be, changes the health care game completely? Once this bill passes, when it passes, health care goes from something we collectively provide to those with jobs, children and the elderly (however imperfecty) to something everyone has access to, from an individual responsibility for most people (save the aformentioned children and elderly) to a collective responsibility. This bill is a game changer. It's certainly not a game winner, but it is an irrevocable step toward the workforce dependent care we have today. a journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step, right? So a few people get rich for a while. guess what? Someone always gets rich it's a small price to pay to change the rules of the game.

Health care not enough for you?

How about we discuss the fact that in one year the Obama administration has brought more actions against companies for unsafe working conditions and unfair pay practices than the Bushies did in 8? Or maybe increased enforcement of environmental regs? Increased enforcement of civil rights laws? How about a government that deals with science, not fantasy? Or how the adminstration has recovered 80% of the bank bailout (and made a *gasp* profit on that) with a plan to recover the rest? Bush gave that money away, Obama got most of it back. Good enough? Nope. Better? Oh hell yes.

So can we try and focus on the positive, while still pressing for more? Can we give them at least two years before going back to the Bush era? So for this thread only: say something positive about Obama, the Dems in the Senate, anyone in government. If you seriously have nothing positive to say about the Democratic Majorities or President Obama, if they've done NOTHING you agree with or like, perhaps you should abstain from this thread and consider why you have so much in common with Glenn Beck.

[PM Martin]

1. In hind sight, seeing the way Americans tend to be

perhaps this mediocre bill should be accepted as a foundation to something better and eventually a single-payer system will be in place.

[ddeclue]

2. EPIC METAPHOR FAIL. The real sports metaphor is that Obama has thrown an intercepted pass

and the Republicans are about to run it into the end-zone.

This health care bill isn't just "imperfect" it's a totally wet kiss with tongue to the insurance thieves that have been screwing us for decades and it needs to be STOPPED.

ANY bill that doesn't at LEAST have a PUBLIC OPTION is not worth passing.

The only DECENT bill would have either SINGLE PAYER or NATIONAL HEALTH.

:nuke:

[northzax]

3. Wow, even on a thread asking for anything positive

You have nothing. You can't say one positive thing about this administration? Not one thing. You totally sure you're in the right place now?

I outlined my reasons for supporting the bill above, reasonable people can disagree, that's fine. But single payer is simply not happening overnight. It's just not. You obviously prefer the status quo to incremental change. That's fine, I suppose. Poorly thought out. In my opinion, but your choice. I'd rather start the process while we can. You'd rather do nothing and watch people die. We can either start this whole process over again in 20 years, after another couple decades of the right wing destroying the country, or get started changing things, step by step.

[ddeclue]

14. I'm absolutely sure I'm in the right place but apparently you aren't.

Reasonable people can NOT disagree - this bill is a sell out to the DLC, to corporations, to insurance companies and it sticks it to our base support in the Democratic Party - the POOR and the MIDDLE CLASS. This is NOT "incremental change" it is a giveaway to the same thieves that have been stealing from us for years. In this case of COURSE a prefer the "status quo" to even MORE thieving from our poor and middle class base. You'd apparently rather see more thieving go on. I'd rather see us do the RIGHT THING. We can start the doing the right thing NOW, we don't have to wait 20 years - that's just your straw bogey man that you've created to try to scare people into backing a CRAP bill.

LIBERAL Democrat,
Doug De Clue
Orlando, FL

[verges]

4. Talk about an epic fail.

:eyes:

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

5. And in that metaphor, you're cheering for the Republicans.

[Taitertots]

7. No, we are complaining that the home team is screwing up

[ddeclue]

13. Nope I'm cheering for SINGLE PAYER and for REGULAR PEOPLE instead of CORPORATIONS.

:P

[leftstreet]

6. +1

Kill the Bill

[Taitertots]

8. So we should be happy that Obama isn't as big a failure as Bush?

I'm not willing to kiss Obama's ass while he doesn't do the things we elected him to do.

So can I get health care? No, I can get health insurance that won't cover anything and has excessive fees. For this we will pay billions to the cancerous insurance corporations.

[northzax]

9. Yes, that's exactly right

Look at the body of work. So this particular version doesn't help you in your particular circumstance. I'm sorry. But it will help a whole lot of other people. And it's a step towards helping everyone. So I guess you gotta take it or leave it this year. I choose to take it and move on towards making it better. But then I'm a realist, and frankly didn't think we'd get this far.

But yes, if the sole reason you voted for Obama was to get single payer, you should look elsewhere.

[Taitertots]

10. I'm not going to be happy getting punched in the face, because I got kicked in the balls last week

Is it really a step toward helping everyone? I don't think it is.


The whole point is that this is not health care reform. It is health insurance reform. It is not even that, it is a insurance handout.


At the end of the day are people still going to be unable to afford the CARE, not the insurance. Can I afford to be sick now, anymore than I could before?

[nofurylike]

11. well said, northzax. thank you for writing and posting this! nt

[nofurylike]

12. and k&r. nt