This is "just like Katrina"= EPIC FAIL and here are the many ways

[nadinbrzezinski]

Katrina 1000 dead

Port au Prince
140,000 and counting... this is as if a little nuclear device fell here.

Katrina IN THE US

Port au Prince Days sail from the US

Katrina: We supposedly had logistics ready to go.

Port Au Prince: Logistics and operations had to start from zero and spin up as they start the relief effort. So we started from zero and it is working very well, to those educated on it, with an educated eye.

Katrina: Some outside infrastructure left outside the zone.


Port au Prince: Infrastructure was minimal BEFORE the quake struck.


And these are just the top difference from Katrina. Yes, you are seeing similar images of people who are quite desperate... and your point? IF anything this should increase your anger ABOUT KATRINA... because this is showing what a UNITED WORLD can do from ground zero. But this is not like I, or anybody else whose doing this or even done it can snap fingers, or throw pixie dust and all will be much better. If you find that supply of pixie dust, please share... they could use it.

Things are spinning up and scaling up. As I have posted before this post this is this issue of time-distance... and how fast the WORLD can physically move the heavier resources in... but this is the LARGEST relief operation in the history of the Western Hemisphere, and as the enormity is showing, the LARGEST LOSS OF LIFE in a disaster. No, not dwarfing the Tsunami, it is just larger.

I know Katrina scarred the American psyche, the same way the Great Flood of 1927 did, but this is hardly Katrina... and to those going, we do not want more excuses... well chill out, give some money, and if there is ANY lesson here is.... you got to be ON YOUR OWN in case of a disaster for at LEAST 72 hours. Are you? Make sure you do.

And if this is getting to be too much... well these is this little on\off button, use it. Especially if you are getting flashbacks.

[piedmont]

1. It may help to put "this is just like Katrina" in quotation marks.

Your title is a little confusing without ""

[nadinbrzezinski]

3. And to correct the formating

silly me I thought I could do a side by side column

[lunatica]

20. This is why DU needs trained people like you and some others here

Your posts are very informative and dispel some of the ignorance. And I mean ignorance as in not knowing about something. Not as a insult.

[nadinbrzezinski]

24. i just try to educate people and give people a peek behind the window

it helps, and perhaps will also inspire people to be able to self care... and have the resources for 72 hours. Not that this woudl have worked here... but that is another story. Most of the time it does.

[tonysam]

34. No, it's propaganda

to make us belittle the MONSTROSITY that happened with New Orleans thanks to Republican policies--WHITE HOUSE policies--and be more concerned with other countries' problems because "they have it worse than we do."

[nadinbrzezinski]

38. Actually this should get you ANGRIER at what happened in New Orleans

you will not get any arguments from me that it WAS a clusterfuck of epic proportions and some of it was quite on purpose. I have some intimate knowledge on that one by the way, rather on how to get AROUND them to get the help in. Long story, surreal week.

But this is not propaganda... and unless you can find me some of that pixie dust that we can use to move oh the first MEU than it is actually REALISTICALLY moving... stuff it.

[seabeyond]

39. no one has belittled katrina and the tragedy of it. your posts are disgusting. nt

[tonysam]

37. It isn't ignorance--it's propaganda

in order to belittle a monstrous tragedy that happened in what is supposed to be the richest country in the world--and the negligence with New Orleans was likely racist to boot--and use a third world country's tragedy to push propaganda.

[nadinbrzezinski]

40. So tell me 140,000 did not die over the last week?

Is your tin foil that tight?

[shireen]

2. people with a short attention span are not getting it

they're reading the first 2-3 paragraphs and either unrec'ing it or moving on.
You're making some good points, but losing people at the beginning of the OP.

I gave your post a recommendation but it was not enough to get rid of the negative score..

[nadinbrzezinski]

4. I don't care if it gets out

to some of the people making the comparison, it does not matter what you show them at this point.

They are convinced that for some nefarious reason the government is gumming the works. I cannot cure the stoopid, nobody can.

[shireen]

5. ah, it looks better now ...

without the formatting, it sounded confusing.

[Enrique]

6. and why was Port au Prince in that state?

it's a failure of the world that Haiti is the way it is. Unless you believe it's because of a deal with the devil.

There is some valid comparison between New Orleans and Haiti, and it's something that would be true even without the disasters.

[nadinbrzezinski]

9. That is a whole different disucssion

a SHALLOW QUAKE under the city, on sandy terrain tends to do that damage by the way.

I am almost willing to bet the P wave was VERY NARROW.

In fact, a quake like THAT, with those characteristics will do A LOT OF DAMAGE in a first world city too.

But that is a whole different discusion, just pointing out WHY those saying this is JUST LIKE KATRINA is a fail of epic proportions.

Now you want to discuss neo colonial policies and globalization? Sure, we can, and should but this is not what this thread is about.

[dave29]

15. Nature does not care about politics.

Haiti has been hit by countless hurricanes. That in and of itself has played a roll in why it is the way it is today. That the world can respond the way it does to these disasters is a testament to how far we have come in just the last 100 years.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

17. It could have something to do with the longterm effects of

embargoes applied to Haiti in the nineties. Forgive the formatting if you click on the link...


http://www1.american.edu/TED/haiti.htm
EFFECTS OF THE EMBARGO ON TRADE Since the embargoes beginning, 60% of Haiti's private sector jobs have been lost; because there are approximately six dependents per job holder, the losses directly affected nearly 1 million people.(12). The impact of the embargo on the business environment will have negative long term repercussions, e.g., Haiti's export assembly industry has been effectively shut down, with many of its plants closing permanently.(13) Although the sanctions were aimed at usurping Cedras and his junta's power, the Cedras regime found ways to circumvent sanctions. In circumscribing sanctions, Cedras's regime was able to profit from the crippled Haitian economy. With a tight control on the supply and distribution of goods smuggled into the country, the regime was able to arbitrarily determine their levels of profit. In addition to benefitting Cedras's regime, sanctions benefitted other dubious characters, such as drugtraffikers and corrupt Dominican Republic military officials who used the sanctions porosity to make a handsome profit. EFFECTS OF THE EMBARGO ON THE ENVIRONMENT The embargo produced worsening health conditions and accelerated environmental degradation throughout Haiti.

The blocked shipments of fuel led to increased deforestation and soil erosion, as many people were forced to burn scarce wood and charcoal for cooking. With deforestation and soil erosion, Haiti's bio-diversity has been effected adversely. Plants that rely upon Haiti's soil, replete in nutrients, are put at risk of depletion; animals that rely upon the plants for food are put at risk of extinction. Ergo, the deforestation and soil erosion, caused by the clear cutting of forests in Haiti, could cause a vicious cycle of environmental destruction. The fuel shortage also undermined the capacity of Haitians to feed themselves. Without fuel, agricultural equipment could not operate and crops neither could be planted nor harvested. Water needed for irrigating fields was diverted to provide Port-au-Prince with hydroelectric power. With water diverted to Port-au-Prince, Haiti's bio-diversity (in the future) is likely to be effected--the effects of which can not, as of yet, be determined. In addition to not being properly irrigated and managed, the agricultural sector has been harmed by the scarcity of pesticides and fertilizers the sanctions caused in Haiti. EFFECTS OF THE EMBARGO ON HUMAN RIGHTS The sanctions have led to a dramatic drop in Haitians living standards.

As a result, many Haitian's have had to adopt harsh survival tactics, such as foraging for plants and eating seeds of crop plants, led to a surge of illnesses in the poorest areas of Haiti. For example, the sanctions contributed to extensive malnutrition, disease, and famine in the northwest. Unfortunately, in rural areas scarcity of transportation and lack of electricity has led to deaths: deaths which could have been otherwise prevented. The deaths occurred, because with a lack of electricity or transportation, vaccines could not be adequately refrigerated or shipped.(14) Those most effected by sanctions were children. Aid workers say children's death rates, because of the sanctions, were 20 times the usual rate. The children died from treatable maladies, such as measles and other commonly treatable viruses. This was because sanctions forced Haitian public-health programs to grind to a halt.(15)

[stray cat]

7. New Orleans is part of the US and Haiti is a sovereign country

and not part of the continental US and many who claim we are not doing enough also would view it as an occupation if we had to conduct security

[nadinbrzezinski]

10. We will have to conduct security

that is what the Marines are coming to do

[Catshrink]

8. Katrina: 1000 reported dead

the actual number? I'd be surprised if it is less than 10X that.

[nadinbrzezinski]

12. Ok even if we go all the way to 10K

try to wrap your head around this.

10,000
140,000

See the little difference? We are talking of a small nuclear device, without the radiation, that went off there.

Now here is something else... Katrina for the most part they were able to identify the dead... here... mass graves, perhaps take a photo... maybe. They are doing the mass graves ASAP due to choleric disease.

[Catshrink]

14. I know.... the Haitian earthquake is a huge disaster

much larger than Katrina. I didn't mean to dispute your point.

[nadinbrzezinski]

16. And trust me, I did believe at one point that they were higher

than official, but they are probably around right by now. They have been adjusted as they have found dead people in the rubble upwards of a few years.

The horror of Katrina is that what happened should not, we had the resources in country and the plans, as well as teams standing by from around the world. So if anything this should raise the anger ABOUT Katrina.

[dixiegrrrrl]

36. The A-bomb on Hiroshima killed about 140,000, btw..

And for decades people were stunned by that number of deaths.

[nadinbrzezinski]

42. Yeah I know, yesterday the number kept bugging me, until I went

I've seen this stat before.

Why I compared this to a small nuclear device, without the radiation.

This is the largest tragedy in the history of the world, and that is not hyperbole. Gosh the Christmas Tsunami was the worst until this point.

[dave29]

11. Agreement. This has little resemblance to Katrina

In the age of the internet, people expect everything, not just information, to move at light speed. If anything this betrays a larger failure of education, since people do not seem to understand physics, logistics, and not unexpectedly, geography.

[nadinbrzezinski]

13. Logistics I will give a pass on not getting it

unless you've done it, for real, it is pretty arcane. But basic geography and physics is a problem.

They just don't get it.

Their IPOD took two months to get to the store from the factory... two weeks if they decided to rush it and use Air.

[dave29]

18. I should dial back on logisitcs, agreed

I worked in operations for telecom -- for over 9 years, so I have had some limited experience (not military, but most of my coworkers were ex-military). I think of 9/11 not just as the day we were attacked, but the day we had to keep the phones running in America and prepare for an attack on the infrastructure. People do not understand. We watched those buildings fall, and immediately had to turn our attention to our jobs. And it was not even remotely easy. Same with Katrina -- we had to get mobile set up, and the logistics were a nightmare, and without immediate support from the Federal GOPernment.. and in every case we were just one piece of the puzzle.

[nadinbrzezinski]

22. oh absolutely

We had telecom as part of our disaster plan... I need comms, and I was just doing rescue.

:-)

I get how hard it is by the way... thanks for your service, most people don't get how hard that was.

[dave29]

31. and thank you :)

:patriot:

[seabeyond]

21. i have never participated and seems pretty obvious to me.

it isn't like the world is saying we want to help.... so we are going to stand around and do nothing.

1 airport, port that is useless, no infrastructure, total destruction. i was thinking day after quake with world rushing to haiti about bottleneck, and i know shit.

[nadinbrzezinski]

23. You have that very rare thing called common sense

it is not as common as you think unfortunately.

And good for you.

[laughingliberal]

19. K & R nt

[MiniMe]

25. Shrub turned down offers from other countries to come in and aid in the rescue

That is one big difference.

[nadinbrzezinski]

26. Trust me i have intinmate knowledge as to what it took

to get State to finally accept it after a week... since it was already coming in anyway... LONG story... and really strange week.

[seabeyond]

27. pilots got in trouble for rescuing people off roofs. that is the one that got me. nt

[donheld]

28. k & R

[malaise]

29. Another good thread

from an asset.

[SidDithers]

30. K&R...nt

Sid

[Arkana]

32. It's not Katrina because it didn't happen to Americans, first off--and second,

our response to Haiti has been the best it could possibly be. I shudder to think how a McPalin admin would have responded to this tragedy.

NOTE: I do not consider it LESS of a tragedy because it happened to Haiti and not America. So do not flame me.

[nadinbrzezinski]

45. It is no less of a tragedy of course

each tragedy is a tragedy... but this is in response to the many threds of THIS IS LIKE KATRINA... and they are gumming the works and all that.

McCain-Palin... I hate to think about it. But that is a difference between a republican and a democrat in the WH... and the good news, yes there is some good news, it shows the last year or so of a new administration has actually changed the thinking in DC. So next disaster in the US, and there will be one, just the nature of the beast, we should see a masterful response.

[tonysam]

33. I would argue Katrina was worse because it was entirely manmade

due to NEGLIGENCE on the part of the White House to do jack shit. There were infrastructure problems that were ignored.

Haiti's situation is similar to ANY third world country's. Same what happened with the tsunami of a few years' back.

Katrina was shocking because it wasn't supposed to happen in what is supposed to be the richest country in the world.

I fucking hate this crap that things weren't so bad with New Orleans, which was almost destroyed--a MAJOR cultural center in this country--so we should discount the tragedy there because what happens in other countries is so much more important.

[seabeyond]

35. nobody said it wasnt bad. nobody said dismiss NO. bullshit post

different. they are different situations. and it is pretty obvious in op that is what was being said

to even suggest anyone dismissed katrina is crap and pretty low

i am not getting people that think they are the only ones to empathize, instead of logic telling you most all of us feel the pain of others, nad the suffering they experience. that is the norm of humankind. why do you want to see and ugly that isnt there

[tonysam]

41. The OP is belittling New Orleans

to push their crap that we should be more concerned with other countries because they have it worse.

For fuck's sake, I am sick of it.

[seabeyond]

43. no. that is not what the op said. that is your interpretation. and it is not what is said.nt

[nadinbrzezinski]

44. AM I? Are you nuts?

Take your meds.

Serious.

[qazplm]

49. English...

it's a wonderful language...you should really learn how to read it.

[Nite Owl]

46. NOLA had days of warning

it was being followed closely by the media. Everything should/could have been prepared to go in immediately. An earthquake gets little warning, aid starts from scratch.

[nadinbrzezinski]

47. Well the difference between a quake in a place wiht a plan

and one without a plan is also important... but i can tell you... all them plans in the world will fail in an event of this magnitude if this happened in oh Los Angeles... it would be a problem.

This is truly a nuclear bomb going off in a city...

:-)

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

48. People who compare this to Katrina...

misremember Katrina and misinterpret Haiti, and insult the victims of both.

[Xenotime]

50. Katrina was the greatest natural disaster to happen in the US.

[nadinbrzezinski]

51. Correct, there are a few others but in modern times

and in living memory, it IS katrina. And it was such a disaster due to the mismanagement. Not that you can stop the storm... but there were things that were not done... PERIOD

That is why Katrina angers me so much... all the should not have happened.

[autorank]

52. Best post yet on these two tragedies k*r

Yes indeed. Katrina was ignored as if by choice. It is our great national disgrace.

Nothing will ever be done about it. No one will ever talk about the 200,000 refugees
PERMANENTLY relocated, ever. It was ethnic cleansing, intentional with federal subsidies.

Keep posting on this subject, please.