"Looting" versus "Finding"

[Rage for Order]

The reasons behind the differences between the captions of the now-famous photos were explained several years ago by the news agencies that published the photos, but I don't think many people noticed.



http://www.snopes.com/katrina/photos/looters.asp

Aapparently you can't copy & paste from Snopes, so I'm including their source articles below. However, the article has informative statements from the editors who signed off on the captions that ran with the pictures.

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2005/09/01/photo_controversy/index.html

Jack Stokes, AP's director of media relations, confirmed today that (photographer Dave) Martin says he witnessed the people in his images looting a grocery store. "He saw the person go into the shop and take the goods," Stokes said, "and that's why he wrote 'looting' in the caption."

Santiago Lyon, AP's director of photography, told Salon that all captions are vetted by editors and are the result of a dialogue between editor and photographer. Lyon said AP's policy is that each photographer can describe only what he or she actually sees. He added, "When we see people go into businesses and come out with goods, we call it 'looting.'" On the other hand, he said, "When we just see them carrying things down the road, we call it 'carrying items.'"

http://www.sportsshooter.com/message_display.html?tid=17204

The AFP photographer Chris Graythen explains his "finding" caption:

"I wrote the caption about the two people who 'found' the items. I believed in my opinion, that they did simply find them, and not 'looted' them in the definition of the word. The people were swimming in chest deep water, and there were other people in the water, both white and black. I looked for the best picture. there were a million items floating in the water - we were right near a grocery store that had 5+ feet of water in it. it had no doors. the water was moving, and the stuff was floating away. These people were not ducking into a store and busting down windows to get electronics. They picked up bread and cokes that were floating in the water. They would have floated away anyhow."

[peace13]

1. Looting is what politicians and corporations do to the federal treasury.

Finding is what hungry, homeless people do to stay alive. Peace, Kim

[Rage for Order]

2. Most apt description to date

Both accurate and succinct

:thumbsup:

[Odin2005]

3. Poor dark-skinned people "loot". Rich light-skinned people "make a profit"

I heard the term "looting" on NPR this morning and it pissed me off.

[Berry Cool]

4. I remember the captions, but I don't remember the excuse-making by the photographers

for their racism.

As if they have to make such a big issue over whether someone "looted" or "found."

They DON'T. They are just trying to excuse their racism.

I have a feeling that if they saw black people "carrying items" like electronics down the road, they would call that "looting," too.

I wonder what they would do if people went into a flooded store and began taking out food items and putting them in the water and they just floated until they ended up outside the store and then the people went outside the store and picked them up. Is that "looting" or is that "picking up things that would have floated away anyhow"?

Sheesh. They are arguing over angels dancing on the heads of pins.

[Rage for Order]

6. Way to completely miss the point

Two photographers for two different news agencies (AP vs. AFP) in a city with no communication, who probably didn't even know that the other was there, got together to "excuse their racism". They didn't make an issue over whether someone "looted" or "found". They captioned their pictures based on what they witnessed. A few days later the armchair QBs cried racism due to the different captions. At that point the news agencies felt they needed to explain why the photos were captioned differently.

"I have a feeling that if they saw black people "carrying items" like electronics down the road, they would call that "looting," too.

I'm guessing you didn't read all of the OP because - conveniently enough - your scenario is specifically mentioned by the AP's Director of Photography:

(Santiago) Lyon said AP's policy is that each photographer can describe only what he or she actually sees. He added, "When we see people go into businesses and come out with goods, we call it 'looting.'" On the other hand, he said, "When we just see them carrying things down the road, we call it 'carrying items.'"

:dunce:

[Abq_Sarah]

7. I thought the headline was odd at the time

If they were "finding" a 42" LCD TV would the headline be the same?

Morally, for me at least, there is a difference between going into a store and taking bread and milk and breaking out the window of an electronics store and taking a television set.

[Rage for Order]

8. I agree with your point

That there is a difference between taking food, drinks, and diapers - items necessary for survival - from a store in the aftermath of a disaster and taking things like televisions, stereos, and jewelry.

"Finding" a 42" LCD TV is interesting, and at this point is branching out into hypothetical situations. However, I'm guessing it would be akin to finding a wad of cash on the sidewalk versus taking a wad of cash out of someone's back pocket. In one instance it's finding, in the other it is stealing.

:shrug:

[Tippy]

5. K&R.....

[Hugabear]

9. Looting would be going after HDTVs, iPods, etc. Going after food is survival

You do what you have to in order to survive.

[Rage for Order]

10. That's pretty much the long and short of it

But to say the captioning of the photos was racist after one understands why the captions were written in the way they were is intellectually dishonest, imho.

[Name removed]

14. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Gormy Cuss]

16. and the penalties for stealing are scaled based on the size of the offense

because a misdemeanor theft is not as serious as a felony theft. Scavenging food from markets turned into heaps of rubble is at worst a misdemeanor should there actually be any law enforcement around who thinks it's a priority item to bust people for collecting stuff that would soon be rotting or spoiled. This isn't the same as shoplifting from your local Safeway.

[Leopolds Ghost]

11. Why is this post appearing NOW? Along with all the "Katrina was no big deal" posts?

I smell a rat. Sorry, but I can't tolerate this racism excusing bullshit.

There were many more photos. Snopes all you want. Did Snopes cover the
false urban legend that the Lower 9th Ward was the lowest part of the city
and therefore unreclaimable (false)? No? They did not? Why not? Did you?

[Warpy]

12. The difference between them is simple and stark

If it's what you need to survive, it's finding.

If it's something you don't need and expect to profit on, it's looting.

[johnaries]

13. I prefer the term "foraging". nt

[Zoeisright]

15. Fabulous catch!

Racism is alive and well.