US denies landing rights to French plane with field hospital

[malaise]

that the DWB hospital. Come on world get your act together.
Complaints by the French government.
US helicopters are dropping tents and food in shantytowns.

[tekisui]

1. Was there a reason given?

[malaise]

6. It will take a while to prioritize who and what should land

This is a massive headache with one airport open and one runway but the tent hospital is very important.

[quiller4]

52. There are already many tent hospitals to be set up . Plane required longer landing area

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

8. Probably because patriotic americans hate their outrageous french accents.

Either that or congestion.

[FrenchieCat]

2. I would need more information.....

as it seriously appears that there is vital information missing from your post.

In fact, I question you posting this based on the information that you do have. :shrug:


OK...I'll go back to calling folks in MA now.

[malaise]

9. Link here

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5hRdguNpGRmf2_yTNXr3IXsl898sg
<snip>
As US troops tried to unblock the aid logjam, donor nations were squabbling over what a Haitian official described as "major coordination problems at the airport" in Port-au-Prince now under US control and operating at its maximum capacity of 90 takeoffs or landings per day.

French, Argentine, Peruvian and Mexican flights were just some of many aircraft filled with rescuers and supplies that were turned back at the country's main port of entry, which has only one runway and whose control tower was destroyed in the temblor.

French Secretary of State for Cooperation Alain Joyandet said France had formally protested US handling of the aid flights after a French aircraft carrying a field hospital was prevented from landing on Friday.

[qazplm]

26. and if the french plane had landed

some other country or entity would have seen their flight diverted and they'd be the ones complaining.

And if the French were in charge, someone would complain about their handling.

This is not the time for a zero defects mentality. Every single plane headed there has something pretty darn important for the people on it.

[Cleita]

14. They reported it on MSNBC news as well. n/t

[Warpy]

3. did they ask why?

90+ flights are coming into that airport daily now. There might simply have been too much on the ground at that point and the landing will be rescheduled.

[napi21]

4. I have no idea, but there is only ONE runway in Haiti! I sure

wouldn't want the air traffic control job! Hundreds of planes are requesting landing auth. all day long. Somebody has to wait!

[EFerrari]

5. When the US and France get their act together on Haiti

it usually turns out badly for the people.

[malaise]

7. Good point

and history is on your side here

[EFerrari]

21. I've learned more about Haiti this week than I even knew I didn't know.

And, it just makes it harder to watch, sis. :hug:

[malaise]

24. Well you've taught me a lot about Central America

Haiti is my neighbor after all and I used to teach a course about the Revolution. Someone needs to tell Contessa that the US did not take control of the Haitian airport. The Haitian government signed a Memorandum of understanding authorizing the US government to run the airport. Big fugging difference.

It's the arrogance that gets to me. :hug:

[elehhhhna]

38. how do these planes refuel for the return trip? probably an issue.

[PacerLJ35]

39. They don't

If you plan on going to a minimally structured airport in a destroyed third-world city without enough gas to get somewhere else, you're just stupid.

[Robb]

12. Ouch. nt

[nadinbrzezinski]

10. For fucks face they diveretd two SEDENA planes to the DR the other day

they are doing this to everybody... and even our own planes... DMAT III is still stuck at the Caicos waiting for a slot.

[Individualist]

11. That plane should have been given priority, considering how many hospitals were destroyed.

The people of Haiti and Doctors Without Borders need that field hospital badly.

[malaise]

13. It will take a while for the priorities to be established

The good news is that relief is reaching people

[FLDCVADem]

17. I have no doubt that priorities have already been established

and this shows that.

[hack89]

43. So what was landed in it's place? nt

[FLDCVADem]

15. Sorry, but I prefer

to leave the decisions about prioritizing landings to the people on the ground there that actually know the facts on the ground.

Much ado about nothing.

[Individualist]

16. Medical help is needed now! It's past time for people to start using some damn common sense.

[nadinbrzezinski]

19. I am telling you that TODAY the hospital presence increased by orders

so there is a reason why they diverted.

[FLDCVADem]

20. Thank you for common sense n/t

[sandnsea]

36. Search & Rescue comes in first

Then food and water, then medical. They have prioritized. You may disagree with the priorities, but people who have been doing this for decades have learned from experience that this is the correct process. So what is your expertise in disaster response?

[nadinbrzezinski]

18. Actually no, not really

this was probably the coordination from the UN.

Why am I saying this? There ARE ALREADY in place or being assembled four hospitals that I can count. The Israelis have one, the Americans have two, and Doctors without borders have one, while the ICRC has one.

Inbound at least two more. I am sure they will bring this one, by road. So the capacity is building fast... and the decision might have been made to divert them to bring in things they need a little more urgently.

[Individualist]

22. You're wrong

This is from Doctor Without Borders, dated Jan. 15 (the hospital that should arrive tomorrow which he refers to is the one that was turned away today):
"Right now we still are struggling to treat patents in very rough conditions. The biggest problem is not having medical structures where we can treat them. But we have been able to find an open space big enough for the inflatable hospital that should arrive tomorrow. So we will have a 100-bed hospital with surgical capacity operation before the end of next week."
http://doctorswithoutborders.org/news/article.cfm?id=4157&cat=field-news&ref=home-center-relatedlink

[FLDCVADem]

23. And of course you have proof

that the one that was turned away is the one is referring to?

People on the ground know far better than armchair aid coordinators what the priorities.

[Individualist]

25. How many field hospitals do you think DWB would be expecting in one day?

:eyes:

[FLDCVADem]

27. I have no idea

but I'm certainly not going to substitute your judgement regarding priorities over the judgement of people that are there and actually know what's going on.

[nadinbrzezinski]

28. so you are telling me that the IDF has not set a fifty bed hospital

the ICRC has not set a 50 bed hospital, critical care units both

That the Americans have not set a few, (from the University of Miami) or even medically evacuating patients...

Or for that matter that Doctors without Borders did not set up the inflatable hospital that Rachel Maddow showed the other day.

Ok.

Not saying that the place is peaches and cream... but for the mission taskers on the ground there was A REASON that they diverted, and unlike the arm chair managers, there was one NOT driven by politics.

Oh there will be, and there will be plenty of finger pointing\ after action review after this is over, and the politics will come in fully in about two weeks or so. But there is a valid reason logistics officers diverted.

The UN coordination agency also said yesterday that they had ENOUGH hospital capacity on the way yesterday and asked member states to stop sending hospitals.

NPR reported that.

[FLDCVADem]

29. and again

thank you for common sense.

[Individualist]

30. My post was about Doctor's Without Borders

If you choose not to believe information from their website dated yesterday, that's your privilege.

[nadinbrzezinski]

31. It is not my priviledge... this is not a political decision

this is a logistics \ mission needs decision.

By the way... since I have worked a few of these shidigs... you do know that information changes hour to hour don't you? You also realize that web updates are not really a priority?

[FLDCVADem]

32. I believe that a hospital is top priority

to those doctors because they are focusing only on medical care. Of course another hospital is top priority to THEM, but it is obviously not the top priority in the overall scheme of things.

[Individualist]

33. From the USAID:

Functioning health facilities are overwhelmed, forcing individuals to seek treatment in makeshift areas. http://www.usaid.gov/locations/latin_america_caribbean/country/haiti/eq/

The UN says "OCHA said today that while the number of mobile hospitals set to arrive in the country is sufficient,
http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=33489&Cr=haiti&Cr1=
Note they did not say they have sufficient hospitals, they said the number "set to arrive".

[FLDCVADem]

37. What part of prioritization don't you understand?

Not everything can be top priority, and though more medical needs are still to be met, and more medical supplies/personnel are still needed, the people on the ground, i.e., the EXPERTS in this situation, have determined that an additional hospital wasn't as a high a priority as other items coming in.

Sorry you don't like it, but unless you're there, which I highly doubt, then your priorities don't mean squat.

[qazplm]

34. so you know the exact order of priority?

How do you know another plane with food or water or something else more urgently needed wasn't the reason that French plane was diverted?

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

35. Yes, they need medical facilities badly.

They also need water badly.
And food.
And trucks to transport said water and food.
And heavy equipment to clear roads of debris so said water and food can be transported.
And communications infrastructure so that the above can be handled in a coordinated way.
And power generation facilities for all of the above.
And temporary shelters so that people aren't sleeping in streets needed for handling the logistics of all of the above.
And people to repair and efficiently run the airport so that all of the above actually has a chance of happening.

But hey, an airplane got turned back because the airport was overburdened, so let's all have a shit fit about this from our comfy chairs.

[hack89]

42. What was landed in it's place? nt

[PacerLJ35]

40. The "denial" probably had less to do with politics and more to do with airport capacity

If the airport has reached maximum capacity, they'll stack aircraft in a holding pattern. Crews will set a "bingo" fuel, and if they reach that fuel state they will divert.

[WolverineDG]

49. Don't bring logic to this bash America party nt

[dgibby]

56. One runway, very little tarmac.

Airport usually handles only 25 flights/day. Many of the large cargo planes take a minimum of 6hrs to unload. Tower is down, so USAF is controlling flights from the cockpit of one of their planes. Seaport is closed due to damage, so until the Vinson arrived, the only access was the airport or through the DR. Haiti is low on jet fuel, so planes have to be diverted if they are running low on fuel. (per various CNN reports)

Considering the logistical nightmare, it's a miracle that they're able to handle the 90 planes they are able to land daily.

[Festivito]

41. The other day they stopped Cuban aid until they got concessions from Cuba.

Cuba allowed US to fly over Cuba, Miami-Haiti. Only then were Cuban triage workers, 15,000 at the ready, and supplies allowed to land per US forces.

There is something inhuman about some of our people in high places in our military. They should either be in stocks or in a psychiatrists office.

[bettyellen]

46. the concession is critical- relief flights can fly over Cuban airpcae now, go look at a map and slap

yourself for acting a fool, mouthing off without knowing any details,
they are juggling offersof help because - beleve it or not- they can;t all fly in at once

[dgibby]

54. Do you have a source for that?

CNN reported that the Cubans were among the first to send in medical assets, arriving even before the US.

[Better Believe It]

44. Because the plane contained a load of french fries instead of freedom fries?

[mnhtnbb]

45. The plane was diverted to the Dominican Republic and unloaded. Cargo is being trucked

in to Haiti, adding 24 hours to arrival.

Certainly not the best situation. The airport is a logistical nightmare--not set up for the traffic
even when it was fully functioning! They need space to unload; they need fuel for the planes
to leave.

If a similar size plane was given priority to land (Senator Clinton, maybe?) then that's not good.

[bettyellen]

47. 24 hours from the DR airport- I know DUers have found closer airports in DR- why don;t these experts

know what the fools here think they do?

[mnhtnbb]

50. I don't know what you mean by your post: DWB website reports

the diversion:

Despite guarantees, given by the United Nations and the US Defense Department, an MSF cargo plane carrying an inflatable surgical hospital was blocked from landing in Port-au-Prince on Saturday, and was re-routed to Samana, in Dominican Republic. All material from the cargo is now being sent by truck from Samana, but this has added a 24-hour delay for the arrival of the hospital.

A second MSF plane is currently on its way and scheduled to land today in Port- au-Prince at around 10 am local time with additional lifesaving medical material and the rest of the equipment for the hospital. If this plane is also rerouted then the installation of the hospital will be further delayed, in a situation where thousands of wounded are still in need of life saving treatment.

http://www.doctorswithoutborders.org/press/release.cfm?id=4165&cat=press-release&ref=home-center


And the report was carried on CNN's update page at 9:25 a.m. Sunday

http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/americas/01/17/haiti.updates.sunday/index.html?hpt=T1

[bettyellen]

53. idiots here claim there are DR airports even closer that could be used and aren;t.... because

stupid shit.

[bettyellen]

48. dupe

[dgibby]

55. Clinton's presence was requested by the Haitian Government, according to CNN. n/t

[mnhtnbb]

51. DWB facebook page reported 10 minutes ago that a plane with the inflatable hospital

has landed at Port au Prince and another planeload of supplies is due at 3 PM today.