Neb. bill would tie welfare benefits to drug tests

[undergroundpanther]

LINCOLN, Neb. (AP) -- People who want welfare benefits in Nebraska might have to start passing drug tests to qualify for government assistance if the Legislature approves a bill introduced Thursday.

Similar measures were considered last year in at least 22 other states, but none of those passed because of concerns about costs and possible court challenges.

Fremont Sen. Charlie Janssen's bill would require the Nebraska Department of Health and Human Services to develop a plan to test welfare recipients and applicants for drugs. Anyone who tests positive would lose benefits for one year.

Janssen said he thinks the measure would help make sure that welfare benefits are helping people improve their lives instead of just providing handouts.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_WELFARE_WITHOUT_DRUGS_NEBRASKA?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2010-01-15-08-36-09

God forbid an addict needs help to survive!
And would that piss test exclude certain psych meds?Prescribed by your psychiatrist? How about Pain killers for people in pain management under a doctor's care?


This who DESERVES mentality of the right and it's stupid zero sum game bullshit is what has to DIE.
Improve ones life? Who measures the'improvements' and defines what an'improvement" IS in someone else s's life ? Is it centered on getting a JOB or a person's capacity to live their own life? Who DEFINES that? The person or the MARKET responsible for the psychopathic sorts of lies made into belief that people get what they "deserve"...
http://www.scu.edu/ethics/publications/iie/v3n2/justworld.html


Fuck you Janssen what makes YOU think you deserve your wealth asshole? What makes YOU think you get to decide who survives.
I think rich parasites like you deserve to be hated and made poor for the rich politician pigs like you exploited millions to become what they are.

[FLDCVADem]

1. If they test positive

ensure that they get treatment to stop (excluding medical need, of course). If they don't stop or if they refuse treatment, then stop the welfare payment.

[vadawg]

4. +1 yep why should the taxpayer pay for their habit

[Luminous Animal]

52. -1 Why the fuck do you care?

Oh no! Some addict may get .0001 cent a day from your tax money. I'll accept drug tests for welfare recipient if we also insist that every single person on the government payroll and are the benefits of a government contract also are subjected to drug tests.

After all, some Senator, or Rep, or some of the CEOs, CFOs, VPs, managers, workers, etc. of Halliburton, Bowing, Raytheon,... may be living it up on cocaine or ocycontin on my FUCKING DIME.

[vadawg]

70. i care because why the fuck should i even give 1 cent to support someones heroin habit

you dont care so what, i do as do others...

[treestar]

156. If they use it for the habit, it's on them that they don't eat

This is just to add to the humiliation of having to apply.

[vadawg]

177. problem is its their kids that dont eat.. i deal with this daily

the junkie still get there junk but the kids live in filth and dont eat....

[Lasher]

233. There's the rub.

And it's a more global problem. You don't have to be an addict to be a deadbeat.

So what do we do? There is little public will to remove children from custody of such parents. And less will than that to enforce measures that would prevent them from having more kids. So it's back to square one, don't cut off the welfare and hope that at least some of the benefit makes its way to the children.

But if children are not involved, we're talking about a whole new ball game.

[laughingliberal]

214. +1 nt

[FLDCVADem]

101. Absolutely test them

Of course, there's a huge difference between taxpayer money earned as salary and taxpayer money given out as a gift.

[Hippo_Tron]

285. The social safety net is NOT a gift

[change_notfinetuning]

240. Don't leave Wall St. bankers/brokers out of the tests. That group has plenty

of users of illegal drugs. Surely some of our tax money has ended up paying for their drugs.

[butterfly77]

246. Exactly, but some can't see your points..

these people steal every damn thing but when it comes to WE THE PEOPLE the stupid ass republicons,now want to say we are spending TOO much money,when they have never gave a damn and they don't now they only care about someone's skin color,or if they are too liberal..

[27inCali]

293. why should we help people destroy themselves?

[Name removed]

125. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[undergroundpanther]

10. I take 2 drugs

that could be used by drug abusers.I have no drug abuse history.
Yet do you think a burnt out social worker at DSS waiting to get off work is gonna be careful and make sure the doctor notes telling the contracted out lab of the week why my piss test results are to be exempted? That these exemptions are on my file?

DSS makes alot of mistakes.Errors. They deal with A LOT of Information.People when overworked, underpaid and burnt out DO make mistakes.In labs people mess up results and confuse files and in DSS stuff gets confused.

Do you think it's fair I lose SSI for who knows how long because someone fucked up my case file based on a piss test flag that would come up anyway because of my prescribed medications??Or that the lab messed up?

Believe me it will happen.To someone somewhere, most likely alot of someones.

Meanwhile if I cannot eat, go to my therapy,and pay my bills I don't think I will handle it with a smile. I don't handle people fucking with my survival well.PSTD and chronic pain leaves me with not much joy in this fucked up world.

[vadawg]

14. lol you do realise that its not hard to show a script when you have a piss test

its done every day, yes mistakes are made but they are not that hard to fix. (speaking as someone who failed a piss test at work)

[noamnety]

24. Do you realize not everyone on welfare can afford scripts?

Maybe when your peers are in pain or are dealing with depression or PTSD, they waltz into a clinic and get a legal prescription.

That's not the case for everyone. Some people self-medicate because they can't afford what you can afford as treatment. That's been a problem for tens of thousands of vets dealing with PTSD - they've been classified as having a "personality disorder" - so they are denied counseling and scripts because the VA decides - after they've served - that they had a preexisting condition.

Or it might be someone dealing with chronic pain who smokes pot because they can't get the fancy drugs rich people get.

Or it could be someone with a mental issue that leads them toward doing drugs ... for whatever reason.

I'm not saying it's a brilliant course of action, it might be self destructive in some cases, it might be reasonable action in others (pot in a state where it isn't legalized yet, for a condition for which it would be prescribed if they lived somewhere else).

It's silly I guess for me to point to your post and claim it's classist when the entire topic is already about unreasonable suspicions and searches of people for committing the crime of being poor. It doesn't escape me, though, that we don't require such testing for people getting social security or medicare. Rich fucks getting those benefits wouldn't stand for it.

[FLDCVADem]

26. Plus not to mention

those "rich fucks" getting Social Security and Medicare paid in for it - it isn't a gift.

[noamnety]

36. I don't think of human rights as a "gift"

Access to food, shelter, health care, potable water ... those should be rights, not gifts. And I don't think of human rights as something that a person should have to be medical screened for to earn.

Aside from that, all rich people don't pay into medicare - trust fund babies who don't earn a salary because they have enough money they don't need to work, they don't pay into it, do they?

Imagine if you had to be drug tested annually to be eligible for firefighters to come to your house if it's on fire.

[vadawg]

41. it is a gift if others are giving it to you whether you like it or not, especially if you are not

providing a service of some sort, not sure how you can think its okay to take cash from me to pay for someones heroin habit. I dont care if someone wants to pump their viens full of that crap, i only care when i have to pay for it or when they are stealing shit to pay for it..

[FLDCVADem]

43. Agree 100% n/t

[Luminous Animal]

66. Nope. It is a meager payoff for being forced to live in a competitive system.

And in every competition, every single one, there are losers. It is our mean tip of the hat to socialism which gives the losers the bare minimum to survive so that we don't have to step over their sick and dying bodies on the way to the coffee shop.

[Name removed]

68. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Luminous Animal]

74. It is society paying people

to live with a bare sense of independence. That is their minimum wage for being born in the U.S. It is either that or prisons and workhouses. You can call it a gift as, no doubt, it makes you feel superior.

[vadawg]

79. no nothing to do with feeling superior, i just recognise when you get something for nothing its a

gift, lots of other places dont give you anything...

[Hansel]

271. Most people who get public assistance work.

They just don't make enough money to exist on it. Just because they are poor and our government doesn't insist on corporations paying a living wage and the cost of living is high does not mean the rest of society has the right to invade their bodies with unwarranted search and seizures. What other indignities should they suffer because we each contribute a micro-penny?

A lot of people will get more in social security and medicare than they paid in. When they reach that point, what invasions do we get to have with their bodies for the "gifts" they receive?

There are many people who get more in taxes than they pay in. Should people from states who get more than $1 for every $1 they pay in all have to have drug tests or forfeit anything over 100% of what they pay in? I'd wager a bet that if you really examined it you would find out that many low and middle income people get more out of tax dollars than they pay in.

If it's just about getting something for nothing, then you need to apply it equally to everyone who benefits from tax dollars. That would probably impact quite a few people who are not on public assistance.

Consider that it just might be more that society has long accepted bigotry toward the poor, especially those who receive public assistance, that allows you to feel your viewpoint has nothing to do with feeling superior.

Drug testing anyone is a waste of tax dollars. This is a particularly egregious waste of tax payer dollars for very little benefit.

[undergroundpanther]

97. Independence is myth

we all need each other to survive.The world is a hostile predatory place,it does not need people playing elitist with others lives on top of bloody clawed nature. No one asked to be born here.Nobody deserves the shit life flings on people. Humanity does not need stupid hypocrites spouting social darwinism pointed at some of us because we are not the fortunate ones. Not everyone is lucky or copes or handles hardships like certain self righteous twits pride themselves upon ,Look if we were a bunch of sociopaths we would not exist as a species.Social Darwinism is eugenics and it is a LIE.
That's reality.

[vadawg]

99. lol you do realise that you are just an animal like any other, darwinism cuts across the species

at the end of the day. you say independance is a myth, yes it is to you but to many peoples its how they live and survive..

[Name removed]

104. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[FLDCVADem]

42. Oh please

Yes, everyone should have shelter, food and clothing. But if people are going to have those things at the expense of taxpayers, the least they should be willing to do is accept treatment to give up their drug habit. If they aren't willing to do so, why should taxpayers pay them? How are they getting the drugs?

As for Medicare, if you don't pay into it, you don't get it, period. So the trust fund babies that don't work a day in their lives won't be getting Social Security & Medicare.

As for your firefighter strawman, it's silly in the extreme and in no way relevent to this conversation.

[noamnety]

55. I guess you are right about paying into it

but I still maintain that human rights shouldn't be considered a "gift" that only some people are eligible for if their behavior warrants it.

They can't all get legal prescription drugs because they don't all have access to medical care. It's great to self-righteously say give up the thing that's allowing you to cope with your chronic mental/physical pain, but if they can't get the treatment many of us take for granted, that's not a helpful response. "Suck it up, get over it" doesn't work as a solution. Short term treatment to get off a pain killer (in some cases I would include alcohol in that category) isn't a solution unless long term treatment for the underlying problems is also accessible. In some cases even making it accessible isn't enough, as mental health issues can manifest themselves in ways that cause the person to reject or avoid treatment.

[vadawg]

56. i think youmiss the part were both myself and the other poster said that they should get help

if that means they get legal scripts for their illnesses or rehab if its just addictions, i got no problems with helping people its just why should we pay for the heroin or meth habit...

[FLDCVADem]

59. Exactly

Get them the help they need, including legal prescriptions for NECESSARY medications. If they refuse the help, then they're on their own.

[Luminous Animal]

82. Oh yeah, because treatment is sooooo available.

Hahaha. Do you have any idea of the paucity of treatment dollars? Do you realize that forced treatment rarely works and taking away people's $200-$400 a month would force them to turn to more desperate measures? Which, of course, would end in jail or prison and their children in foster care which would cost YOU 20-30 times more if you had simply left them alone.

[vadawg]

84. still missing the point arent you, not saying the systems perfect

jsut saying that no money should go to people who shoot their welfare into their arms, and we should be helping people with addictions and if they need scripts for meds we should be helping also, we all know there is not the money at the moment to do this but its the situation we are discussing. simply put if you get government dollars, you get tested, if you fail you have explain why, if its legit then no problem, if your an addict you get help, if your taking of scrips for illness you get help, if you dont want help then no more gov dollars...

[Luminous Animal]

94. You get goverment dollars. You should get tested.

Every time you take a tax right off, that is money out of my pocket. Every time you drive on the highway, that is money out of my pocket. In order to ensure that you are doing nothing illegal while benefiting from my tax payer dollars, I demand that you get tested.

Your ignorance of addiction and poverty is unremarkable for its ordinariness in the U.S. That is why we are the most backward society of modern western societies.

[vadawg]

95. well i do get tested as i get gov dollars, i can test you when you drive on the highway

so its already there, i got no problemn with getting tested mainly due to the fact that im not junked out of my mind...

[bobbolink]

129. AMEN! Thank you!

:yourock:

[laughingliberal]

218. Sure and there are a whole bunch of corporations in the US who are able to operate because of an

infrastructure that our tax dollars built (roads they transport goods on, electricity on a grid we built years ago, a work force educated with our dollars, and on and on) who pay no taxes. But that's different, I guess. The rich are entitled to their welfare and their privacy.

[winyanstaz]

269. So why aren't you screaming for the politicians to be tested?

Or why aren't you screaming for the rich Corporations and all their minions because they get more of your dollars than the poor..by far.
Why aren't you screaming for more investigations of the middle class and the rich's finances since they are the major drug dealers and importers in the nation.
Your ignorance of drugs and drug addiction is quite remarkable..I guess you don't actually think about things much do you?
Instead people like you want to lash out at the most vulnerable and those in the most need...the poor who can't fight back because that makes you feel better somehow.
That is why we are the most backward society of modern western societies.

[laughingliberal]

220. I'm good with that as soon as we require testing for all the Wall Street executives in companies we

bailed out who are paying themselves bonuses. Would be very enlightening to see what that turns up. I'd way go for that. Make it a federal law. Any executive with any company that gets government bailout money pisses in a cup every Monday morning. I'd even go with any executive with any company not paying income taxes should also. They're using the infrastructure my tax dollars paid for and they're getting a free ride. If they're using they're fired. I'm not going to support their lifestyles.

[undergroundpanther]

100. jail means

more free slave labor for unicor...

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=8289

Remember what the gate above autzwich said? "Work makes you free".

Who does one persons slavery give Freedom to?

[vadawg]

106. well obviously to you, you are free to post and to do your thing

so somewhere there is someone who is being oppressed so that you might post on the net and whatever you want to do... os are you somehow different from the rest of us, never heard of the autzwich but i take it you mean auschwitz, and believe it or not work can make you free...

[winyanstaz]

270. Do you even bother to stop and think before you post?

So somewhere, someone is being oppressed so someone else can be free?
You can't really believe something like that..tell me you were kidding please! sheesh.

[treestar]

161. How come that's an issue suddenly?

It hasn't been for years. What of those with no drug habit? It's extra humiliation to have to take this test.

the expenses of giving the test may be as much as would be saved by punishing addicts this way.

[Flaneur]

200. It's not. It's just red meat for rightist constituencies.

[Hansel]

273. And apparently some on this board...

Why am I not surprised. Hmmmm. Let me think.

[Bill McBlueState]

290. and certain DUers, apparently. n/t

[laughingliberal]

215. Yeah, nothing in the article about any programs to help them get treatment for addiction

Seems the article talks about using this to save money in the long term. Course treatment for addictions would, likely, save money in the long term but I'd be surprised if it's ever offered.

[Hannah Bell]

138. Test the rich. They get most of the benefit from federal spending.

[vadawg]

142. yep if they get money from the taxpayer then no problem...

[laughingliberal]

222. Yep. Start with every executive of every Wall Street & bank who got bailout money and were paid a

bonus. Then we'll start on the executives with companies who make over 25% of their revenue from government contracts. Next, executives working for any corporation that is not paying income taxes cause they're using our infrastructure to operate and giving nothing back. Just a thought, Monday morning might be a good time to have 'em all come in and piss in the jar.

[pengillian101]

85. +1

[undergroundpanther]

57. Yes

And people on welfare do the best they can to manage. Some people on welfare in pain will try to get help other ways like borrowing meds from someone who has them if the pain is bad. I know.

Welfare is not enough to live on,neither is SSI.But SSI pays more than welfare does I know..And there is no medical help as far as I know for welfare recipients. If you don't get MA,PAC is what maryland has and it will not pay for much either.And I am not sure if welfare recipients can even get PAC I don't think they are eligible. So my heart goes out to you I help out in my town. Welfare is too little too late.

We both live well below the poverty line.I am disabled. That's why I get SSI and my meds covered. What is done to welfare will be done to disability eventually. Look we are both poor and on the same food chain,and our survival is beholden to the same rich greedy hypocrites.

[undergroundpanther]

63. Yes

I know that.

[Tailormyst]

255. Usually those on welfare are automatically on state medical

[Luminous Animal]

45. Yeah. And once you are churned off the roles, it can take months to get back on.

Meanwhile, you may have lost your home and/or your family.

[vadawg]

50. and you would only be churned off the rolls if you fail the tests and cant give a reason why

as i said its not that hard to fix when you fail one if its a legitimate reason.

[Luminous Animal]

61. Actually, you are removed immediately pending proof.

It is established policy. And once off, you have to go through the reapplication process which can take months. Unless this bill allow for otherwise, there is no such thing as a suspension.

[undergroundpanther]

65. They kick people out

of section 8 housing if they test positive for drugs already.

[FLDCVADem]

69. As they should

Again, treatment should be offered, but if they refuse, they should be kicked out.

[Gormy Cuss]

143. and in the meantime, your kids are malnourished and not sure where they're going to sleep.

Have a nice day.

[vadawg]

145. another who didnt actually read what i think should happen

if your test is dirty, you get help, if you refuse the help then you lose benefits, whether that help is rehab or legal scrips..

[Gormy Cuss]

213. You don't seem to get it. If the adult refuses the help, the kids get hurt.

If the adult doesn't agree to the test in the first place, the kids get hurt. See the problem?
Using and addicted parents are a reality that is already hard enough.

eta: the state is neither prepared nor interested in taking custody of the children solely because of parental addiction either. It would require far more money in custodial services than simply cutting the check for TANF and there's no reason to believe that the children would have better lives in foster care.

[undergroundpanther]

60. Yes

It's another way to screw people over along with that sickening who deserves what crap.

[vadawg]

73. no its a way to stop taxpayer monies being used to pay for drug habits

why should taxpayers pay for someone to get junked up...

[laughingliberal]

223. Yep. Test those Wall Street bailout kings immediately! nt

[bobbolink]

127. Laughing at someone who is vulnerable.

What a human being you are.

NOT.

[vadawg]

135. lol now im laughing at you, whereas i was laughing at his post...

[Name removed]

160. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[rhiannon55]

281. You

are a sociopath.

[FLDCVADem]

16. Why would anything be exempted during the testing?

Do it like the military does - test for everything, and if something comes up, provide the medical record and/or prescription that shows you are a legitimate user. The few times that I went to docs outside the military, I always made sure to have those records inserted into my military medical file for just that reason.

It's really not that difficult.

[vadawg]

17. it seems that the people like you and me who go through this understand how easy it is to correct

mistakes, its not that hard to fax errors and as for the tests themselves they are pretty easy to fulfill.

[undergroundpanther]

72. Might not be difficult to YOU

But people living on welfare don't always have access to every piece of paper they need on hand to prove why they take a medication. On welfare you can't afford rent let alone medicine proper so you share places to stay.And sometimes roomates get mad and trash your stuff,landlords toss it in the street, people steal,a fire burns it,shit happens and the papers are gone. But I guess you don't think of those realities do ya?

[FLDCVADem]

76. But they can afford a drug habit

Got it.

[vadawg]

81. yeah the disconnect here is astounding,

[undergroundpanther]

110. would you say that

To a fellow veteran on welfare who is an alcoholic drinking himself to death? You think he's a useless eater because he can't quit on command? Is that what you think?
I'd dare you to tell a vet alcoholic he's useless and deserves to starve because the PSTD makes him seek escape through booze in a country that abandoned him and a government that lied to him..I'd get joy watching him kick your pompous ass.
After all you claimed to be military...right? You DO know many vets are homeless,or on welfare and need help making it.

[vadawg]

111. lol you do realise that the poster has said that there should be help

not sure what that vet you describe has to do with the heroin addict spending their welfare to buy dope.

[laughingliberal]

217. I see nothing in the article that there are plans to get them help if they have a drug problem

Just throw them off to save the state some money. Treating people would defeat the save money intent. Saving people not on their radar screen.

[FLDCVADem]

113. Alcohol is not an illegal drug that would be tested in this case

At least not as described in the article you posted. And I've said repeatedly, though obviously not in small enough words for you to understand, that treatment should be the first avenue. Only if it fails or is refused should the recipient be booted from the rolls. Veteran or not.

[vadawg]

77. blah blah, the reality is that you can to to cvs or walgreens etc they can print of your scripts for

you, you can call the docs, the hospital or wherever and get a copy, its not that hard to get hard copies especially if you know you are going to need them, I say this as someone who has to provide paperwork on stuff for tests all the time and i have paperwork go missing or get trashed. just because someone is on welfare it dosent mean they are stupid or unable to function..

[bobbolink]

133. People on welfare and disability are DIFFERENT.. WE AREN'T BELIEVED.

We are treated as guilty until we can prove we are innocent.

Ego-driven people can't and won't understand that.

[vadawg]

140. lol well mayby you are not believed but i deal with lots of people on welfare and disability and

from every other walk of life, some lie some dont, mayby the issue is with you.

[bobbolink]

155. If you aren't lying, then I feel very sorry for the people you mistreat.

Your heartlessness is on the same level as the segregationists of old.

And you are so proud of it.

Its called sociopathology.

Get some treatment for it.

[vadawg]

181. i dont mistreat anyone, i deal with everyone the same way, i laugh when they do dumb shit

i console when they fuck up, i lecture when its warranted etc etc

[bobbolink]

191. There you go... finally some honesty. When vulnerable people are forced to come to you,

you laugh, you lecture, you harrass.

Typical bully.

Why don't you pick on people bigger than you for a change?

Scared?

[AlienGirl]

193. I believe the intrepid Mr. Vadawg is an Officer of the Peace. His job is just arrest the perp

Not help addicts recover, help sick people get SSI, or find homes for kids in the aftermath of drug abuse.

Tucker

[bobbolink]

194. And build the case, whether the "perp" is innocent or guilty, right?

As long as he gets a "win", then he's happy.

Hence, the ceaseless laughing.

[AlienGirl]

196. My point is he doesn't see people who are vulnerable. He sees perps, vics, witnesses, and cops.

[undergroundpanther]

208. in other words

he's half blinded morally. by his job of all things.

[bobbolink]

264. Thanks, that's an important point. he also admits he only sees negative in people

he supposedly "helps".

He sees himself as a "fixer", because he has decided that he is always superior to everyone else, and has nothing to learn.

He doesn't recognize pain, he doesn't see humanness, he only sees people beneath him.

Poor stunted man....no wonder he hides behind a badge.

[laughingliberal]

224. Well, now that's a lot clearer. Thank goodness. I was thinking this was a social worker.

And I was horrified.

[Spazito]

267. Yep, also a fan of Joe Arpaio ....

and that tells me all I need to know so the absolute arrogant, superior attitude in his posts are, sadly, entirely in keeping with his beliefs.

[vadawg]

201. lol you do realise that the people i laugh at are the big guys

the people we help are the lost and forlorn, and the people we harrass are the very people who would harm you without a second thought...

[treestar]

167. No, they are comfortably middle class and think that everyone

should live up to standards set by the middle class and that they are "giving" this to the poor and that the poor should therefore live up to their standards.

Sort of like the way the right wing thinks it should all be charity, so that they can judge the morals of the people receiving the charity and use this to make the recipients behave better.

[FLDCVADem]

172. I don't expect everyone to live up to my standards

I do expect that people shouldn't be buying illegal drugs with tax money.

[hyphenate]

33. Prescription drugs

are not counted, as long as a person has a prescription for them. I worked for awhile in a health and wellness department, and asked that question, as I have been on a wide assortment of medicines over a long period of time for various ailments.

In California, people could go in for "general relief" which used to be about $200 a month. They don't qualify for welfare or other programs, but often are addicted to one thing or another, and the money is essentially to help them get cleaned up and moving again and get something solid into their stomachs. In exchange, they have to "work" in some way to earn it, like in the clean-up crews, in the office, or whatever, for about 3 days during that month.

I think extensions of some sort similar to that might be worth investing in for many states. Give a recipient some training, get them going again, and find ways to make working appeal to people, instead of having them stay on welfare all their lives. Testing them could be the incentive that some need to get going. If people don't mind jumping through hoops to stay on welfare, then there will be more compelling reasons for them to stay on it.

I know we have a lot of unemployment right now, and even for those who are qualified there isn't a lot to do, but we can get the ball rolling, if we make sure that no one falls through the cracks. Putting faces and names together, even if it's for something like a drug test, makes sure that a person stays known. You can't forget someone who you see every month, even if it's only for a few minutes to accept a urine sample from them.

[noamnety]

49. Nothing like bonding with a person

by having them watch you pee once a month.

and again, people on welfare can't all afford prescription medications, especially wide assortments of them over long periods of time. Comparing the situation of a person who works in a health department to one of the welfare recipients isn't realistic in that regard. It's not a case of "they can just do like I did."

[bobbolink]

Thank you for understanding the dignity issue.

The ignorance of people who expect the best of people while treating them like vermin is truly astounding.

That's exactly what we do in war.... dehumanize people.

Then we do it to our own citizens, and buy the RW mantra of "the worthy and unworthy poor".

:nuke:

[bobbolink]

126. Losing SSI results in DEATH.

Yet, that doesn't seem to matter to so many "progressives".

Heartless.

The lot of 'em.

[Hannah Bell]

148. god forbid the poor should ever smoke a joint, eat a cupcake, or have a moment of pleasure.

[bobbolink]

151. Pleasure? What the fuck is that?

We aren't allowed.

[vadawg]

203. not if im paying for it your not, same as i wouldnt expect you to pay for my pleasures

[bobbolink]

249. You've done a very good job of outing yourself as the selfish, heartless

thing that you are.

I thank you for that.

I can see from responses here and from PMs I've received that you have opened peoples' eyes to what we poor folk suffer at the hands of things like you on a daily basis.

You have educated people here to just how ugly our culture and system is.

I'm grateful to you.

[leftynyc]

288. Sorry

If you are getting welfare, you shouldn't be spending the money on pot. Knock yourself out on the cupcakes or sex (if that's what you think the best place for your money is).

Government money shouldn't be going to illegal drugs. It's really that simple. Enabling behavior by just handing out a check does nobody any good.

[SoCalDem]

219. They would probably be required to verify with doctors for legal use

prescription # & a phone number should do it:)

Women getting aid for their children, who sell the WIC food and use their check to buy drugs are cheating their children

[meow2u3]

242. Just make sure you bring your prescription bottles when you take your pee test

This way, if you do test positive, you have proof that it's your prescribed meds, not something you're taking to get high.

I also take meds that addicts can abuse. I have to guard them carefully or else some pill junkie will steal them. AAMOF, I used to take piss tests to make sure I'm taking my meds as prescribed!!! I had to test positive or else the doc would take me off the meds.

[bobbolink]

124. I hope you end up on the receiving end.

YOU deserve it.

[FLDCVADem]

146. Why thank you.

And I hope you get all that you deserve as well. :)

[bobbolink]

162. You're very welcome.

And when you do, you can enjoy vadawg laughing at you.

[FLDCVADem]

169. Stop being funny

And people won't laugh.

[bobbolink]

170. Grow a heart, and people won't be so angry with you.

Yes, I'm often funny. That's because I'm still a human being.

It beats the hell out of being a bully.

[FLDCVADem]

176. Contrary to what you seem to believe

the fact that I disagree with you doesn't mean I'm a bully, it means I don't agree with you. Nothing more, nothing less.

I don't believe that everyone on this site is obligated to agree with everything you post...at least, I don't remember seeing that in the rules.

[bobbolink]

183. The ugly attitude you display has nothing to do with "disagreement" It has to do with power and

control.

[noamnety]

2. Funny how CEOs never need drug testing

before they get bailout money.

[varelse]

3. beat me to it (nt)

[shawcomm]

212. k&r

:kick:

[depakid]

5. How much is that going to cost the state?

A pretty penny I imagine- not only in direct costs- but indirect one's (and cost shifting as well).

Moralizing tends to be expensive- yet another of the myriad reasons for the nation's fiscal decline.

[Maru Kitteh]

21. Which is exactly why you won't ever see another article about it in NE. It won't pass.

No money.

[FLDCVADem]

27. Depends

How much will they save by not paying for people's drug habits?

[Maru Kitteh]

35. Nobody makes enough on welfare to pey for an addiction, so that is null

And no. It doesn't "depend." There is no money to implement the program. Nebraska is a paygo state and the budget is being cut to the bone.

This is a publicity stunt.

[vadawg]

44. yeah so we pay for 10% of their heroin use and they find the other 90%

i guess that makes a difference then....

[FLDCVADem]

46. If welfare recipients can't pay for a drug habit

how are they getting their drugs?

[depakid]

91. As stated- shortsighted and economicaly illiterate moralizers are part of why

states (and the federal government) end up with fiscal crises.

You get a lot more bang for the buck funding rehab and family services (for a lot of reasons) but you have to give up the prediction to "punish bad people."

[vadawg]

96. dude once again both myself and the other poster say we need to do rehab and give proper scrips

to people who fail the tests, yes we want to punish bad people the same as we punish people who drink and drive or litter or spend taxpayer money on stuff thats not part of the deal...

[Bluenorthwest]

53. Depends on who would profit

Who gets this giant, perpetual contract to suck the veins of the people of Nebraska?

[Maru Kitteh]

257. No it does not. There is no money to implement a program like this in NE

And it would probably fail miserably in the most lush of years. We just don't throw a lot of money around in this state. The budget is always small and getting new expenditures of any kind passed is always an uphill battle. Now we have the amazing shrunken budget and a state constitution that mandates a balanced budget.

All of the mighty fury and sound on this thread is just silly.

[me b zola]

6. They never tire of beating up on poor folk, do they n/t

[FLDCVADem]

7. Sounds more like

some poor people beating up on themselves with drugs.

I'm completely supportive of providing drug treatment therapy along with welfare benefits. Barring that, I have no interest in paying for someone's cocaine or heroin habit.

***edited for spelling error

[me b zola]

8. What is the freaking obsession some have with the poor?

Why don't you go campaign for members of congress to be drug tested? FFS.

[FLDCVADem]

9. Are members of Congress getting welfare payments? n/t

[SammyWinstonJack]

25. LOL!

:silly: Guess corporate welfare pay outs don't count, eh?

[FLDCVADem]

28. Is Congress getting corporate welfare payouts?

I guess I missed that.

[Bill McBlueState]

32. what do you mean by welfare?

The days of getting a check just because you're poor essentially ended 14 years ago.

[undergroundpanther]

34. Yeah

But they are exempted because they are not poor.The deserving rich I guess don't have to take humiliating piss tests to have thier housing and transport and fancy state dinners paid for by taxpayers.
Politicians as a "class" get way more taxpayer money than the whole welfare program itself gets.Corporations get even more wealthfare.

http://www.laweekly.com/2009-05-21/news/l-a-city-council-clings-to-stunning-perks-and-pay/
Compare that to THIS. Who needs the help ?
http://articles.sfgate.com/2003-11-30/news/17518880_1_vina-tommy-rettig-crack-pipe

Tell me why people try to tell others what they deserve?
Usually people look at the most desperate and blame them.
It's easier I guess than hating the rich CEO's and politicians who are the true parasites.

Other stuff that will make you sick..
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/opinion/editorials/health_care_harbinger_6F1P4fGmHHGKdOH0cEPFMN

http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/20090908_states_ignoring_stimulus_welfare_fund/

http://reason.com/archives/2008/06/10/the-public-spinmeisters
http://www.goldwaterinstitute.org/article/3174

[FLDCVADem]

51. First,

where do you get the notion that Congressmen have their housing paid for?

Second, whether you like the work Congress does or not, they are in fact working and earning the taxpayer money they get.

The fact that people can't see the difference between taxpayer money that is used for earned salaries v. taxpayer money handed out for basic necessities is amazing to me.

[undergroundpanther]

90. Earning??

Bwahaha...
Tell me, do you really think Obama is renting the white house?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/06/21/graham-open-to-dems-healt_n_218535.html


And on top of that ex presidents get millions in perks on taxpayers dime FOR LIFE.
http://www.wtsp.com/news/mostpop/story.aspx?storyid=100853&provider=top

[vadawg]

102. you realise that those perks are part of the deal, or package if you prefer

when you do certain jobs you get certain perks as part of that job, some of those perks last a lifetime. You might not like it but its one of the reasons that people do certain jobs..

[FLDCVADem]

109. None of that matters vadawg

Doesn't matter that I earn my federal benefits or that I earned my military benefits. Nope, I'm just like the coke snorting welfare recipient, getting something for nothing. And apparently, less deserving.

[vadawg]

112. yup, hell did we ever earn the military benefits..

[AlienGirl]

190. And if you get injured, or get PTSD, should you have to pee in front of a stranger to get SSI?

[REP]

199. I'm on SSDisability. I have to send my complete medical records to strangers 2x a year

Because I was disabled at work, I have to send my complete medical records -including my GYN records - to my disability office twice a year. My disability has nothing to do with my ovarian cysts or other gyn issues, but someone gets to know all about all my medical issues.

[AlienGirl]

202. Many posters in this thread seem to think YOU should be getting random drug tests, too!

[vadawg]

205. yup if thats part of the deal, i already do pee infront of a stranger

as thats part of the deal i made in order to get my salary...

[undergroundpanther]

115. There it IS

The black heart of social Darwinism... who "DESERVES"
You admit it now, you want to claim you deserve more and they(addicts) deserve less.Based on WHAT?? thier addictions? Inability to cope with what you cope with? All because you can do it everyone else should be doing it just like you. How arrogant.
The shit you say is a right wing mess.

Would you dare let all the veterans who use booze or drugs be forced off taxpayer assistance to beg because you think they don't deserve as much of a perk from your masters as YOU think YOU deserve? What are you basing what YOU are worth to someone who does not know you on? Not much since social darwinism makes life so cheap and made it into a commodity.You were a military drone..ok so? Wanna bozo button? Shall I clap? Or pat you on the head and say yes,you are such a good boy here's a lollipop? WTF do you want?

To even begin to cost benefit ratio analyze who DESERVES___ and who does not you must question others worth,as if each person is born with a price UPC code tattooed on their ass that makes them a commodity

Life a commodity to bet on on wall street,commodity like beef,shoes or computer chips..

Unlike you,I don't think of life in terms of worthiness and deservedness. I do not worship at the altar of zero sum like you do.
I do not look at life and the world with an economics lens.Because there is more to life than money.

Your opinions ,however aren't worth much to me when you sit here spouting eugenics as if it had any bearing on what life is worth.
Open your mind a bit step to the left,or you might find yourself being questioned about how much you are worth and what you deserve.
It starts with the scapegoats the poor,addicts,than it moves up the status ladder,until you are on the street.That's how beliefs like social darwinism pan out when applied in real life.

Dead Kennedys comes to mind..

"Soup Is Good Food"

We're sorry
But you're no longer needed
Or wanted
Or even cared about here
Machines can do a better job than you
This is what you get for asking questions

The unions agree
'Sacrifices must be made'
Computers never go on strike
To save the working man you've got to put him out to pasture

Looks like we'll have to let you go
Doesn't it feel fulfilling to know
That you-the human being-are now obsolete
And there's nothing in hell we'll let you do about it


Soup is good food-(We don't need you any more)
You made a good meal-(We don't need you any more)
Now how do you feel-(We don't need you any more)
To be shit out our ass
And thrown in the cold like a piece of trash
We're sorry
You'll just have to leave
Unemployment runs out after just six weeks
How does it feel to be a budget cut?
You're snipped
You no longer exist

Your number's been purged from our central computer
So we can rig the facts
And sweep you under the rug
See our chart? Unemployment's going down
If that ruins your life that's your problem

Soup is Good Food, Etc.
We're sorry
We hate to interrupt
But it's against the law to jump off this bridge
You'll just have to kill yourself somewhere else
A tourist might see you
And we wouldn't want that

I'm just doing my job, you know
So say uncle
And we'll take you to the mental health zoo
Force feed you mind-melting chemicals
Til even the outside world looks great

In hi-tech science research labs
It costs too much to bury all the dead
The mutilated disease-injected
Surplus rats who can't be used anymore

So they're dumped (with no minister present)
In a spiraling corkscrew dispose-all unit
Ground into sludge and flushed away
Aw geez:.

Soup is good food
You made a good meal, etc:.
We know how much you'd like to die
We joke about it on our coffee breaks
But we're paid to force you to have a nice day
In the wonderful world we made just for you
"Poor Rats", we human rodents chuckle
At least we get a dignified cremation
At yet
At 6:00 tomorrow morning
It's time to get up and go to work ..

[FLDCVADem]

116. You're right

I do think I'm more deserving of the benefits I EARNED than someone that didn't earn them.

Based on what? Based on the fact that I earned the benefits. I don't expect everyone to do what I do or live like I live. But I sure as hell expect that if you're going to ask for free, unearned money every month the least you can do is accept treatment to get rid of an illegal drug habit.

If you truly can't see the difference between the two, then again, we'll just agree to disagree and move on, but we'll never see eye to eye on this.

[undergroundpanther]

139. No we won't agree

I know people who struggle with addictions..do you?
Life is hard for most people,because you did blah blah, that does not mean you deserve more than others.You do not get to put a price tag on another's life..
We all deserve the means to exist,and we all deserve human rights. PERIOD.

And I have known exploiting hypocrite bullies with no conscience.
They think they are entitled to more and are better than me or anyone else,they exist too, sadly.They get human rights until they try to take away another's human rights,they use the same arguments you are using BTW.Than the difference between you an I will be very stark.

[FLDCVADem]

150. If you think the right to use illegal drugs at taxpayer expense

is a human right...

,

[undergroundpanther]

186. to not be tormented

by pain is. If someone is in pain be it emotional physical they need relief and if they can't get it the regular way,they find other ways.

Look at Rush Limbaugh he got addicted to opiates because of a back injury he railed against addicts and he IS one. When he couldn't get it via doctor legally he used his housekeeper to get it from the street.

Does rush deserve his wealth for the SHIT he spews over the airwaves?
He produces nothing but noise. He's an addict and shirked military duty.And he chickened out of rehab after 2 days. He could pay for it if he had the guts to do it..But somehow he isn't the same as an addict on welfare.Why because someone is stupid enough to pay to listen to Rush's noise?

[vadawg]

117. yes it comes down to who deserves, what made you think that mankind wasnt

if you can paint great art then you get the results of what you do, if you can play a sport great you get the rewards, if you are willing to run into a burning building you get the rewards, if you invent something or if you cook meals for people, or whatever then you get the rewards of what you give to your fellows. You dont seem to realise that you spout the very things you say you are against, many times i have seen you post stuff about killing rich people or people better off than yourself, you also practice a form of eugenics in that you want to destroy anyone who dosent fit what you believe society should be and the scarey thing is you dont see it..

[Zoeisright]

272. Oh, ignore him. I do. Life is much nicer now.

[Flaneur]

154. Your class bias is stinking up the joint.

Can you show me any evidence that people on welfare use drugs at a higher rate than the population as a whole? Or are you just letting your stereotypes run away with you?

[FLDCVADem]

105. And I thought it was President Obama

not Congressman Obama. I asked if you though Congress members get free housing and you come back with President Obama and the White House? Seriously?

[undergroundpanther]

131. I gave you a link

That told you about congressional perks..in another post. But you aren't into links that fuck up your arguments are ya?



How can members of Congress balance a budget and spend tax dollars wisely when they can't even balance their checkbooks or make good on their meal tabs?

What could be a better invitation to civil-disobedience revolt than watching lawmakers who earn $125,100 travel around the world for free, have massages in the House gym for free, have their cars parked for free and have their tickets fixed, refusing to pay for the few perks that are not granted outright. "If ordinary people did that, they would be charged out the wazoo," says C.T. Anderson, a bartender at Manuel's Tavern in Atlanta, who has heard plenty from his customers. "People are just fed up."

Here's some links read it and weep.
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,974054,00.html
http://www.ajc.com/news/nation-world/lawmakers-get-bounty-of-214897.html
http://www.ntu.org/main/press.php?PressID=343

But this culture of privilege, so stubbornly protected, is not well suited to these hard times. When uninsured workers live in fear that one illness could wipe out their life savings, it is enraging to hear of the House pharmacy dispensing free prescription drugs, not to mention the private congressional ambulance that protects members from the urban nightmare of emergency-room gridlock.

Read more: http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,974054-3,00.html#ixzz0cqHOMl4A

[FLDCVADem]

179. I read your link

And as expected, it didn't back up your claim that members of Congress get free housing. Then you throw President Obama into the mix, when of course we all know he has free (and deservedly so) housing.

[undergroundpanther]

188. why does he deserve it?

He could pay rent if he wanted to. Not like he can't afford it.

[vadawg]

12. id happily have them tested as well, as im paying their wages through my taxes

hell id go so far as to polygraph every politician so we can see when they are lying to us...

[FLDCVADem]

13. Fair enough

I'm a federal employee, and I'm subject to a random drug testing at any time.

Same thing for the 20 years I was in the military.

[vadawg]

15. yup me to and i have failed them in the past, but was easily able to explain the circumstances

[bobbolink]

141. EXACTLY! Not to mention, their minions in the corporate press!

You know, you bring up a really interesting thought. David Sirota, on Colorado Air America, is always talking about legalizing marijuana. If he has the duplicitous gall, like some here on DU, to be clearly a user who wants to be legal, and yet would support a bill like this, it needs to be exposed.

Fucking hypocrites!

[devilgrrl]

251. What proof do you have that welfare recipients are using drugs?

:popcorn:

[undergroundpanther]

80. They must get off on it or something

evil hearted shits aren't they?

I hope these self rightious bastards end up poor. That'll change them.When another self rightious bastard poor bashes them, I wonder if they will remember that is who THEY were once.And I hope the realization stings thier soul to the core.

[FLDCVADem]

83. No problem, call me evil

If it's evil to not want tax money going to pay for heroin and cocaine habits, then I'll wear the label proudly.

[undergroundpanther]

92. Well until you learn

about the difficulties addicts and poor people deal with,I'd rather call you stupid.
Evil has it's banal side, you.

[FLDCVADem]

107. And I guess since you can't understand what I've

repeatedly written, I would call you illiterate.

[vadawg]

120. rofl i think he truly is....

[vadawg]

87. lol you think people havent been poor, you think just because your poor you want heroin addicts

around, lol this is nothing to do with bashing the poor its about bashing the people who are using taxpayer money for their habits, whether thats the addict on welfare, the gov worker using his work credit card for strippers, or the politician taking our money to enhance themselves...

[xynthee]

122. It's SO disheartening to see these authoritarian, police state advocates on DU

Even if there are only two of them, it saddens me deeply. How does one become so cold and uncaring? :cry: :shrug:

[vadawg]

128. why because we think addicts should get help rather than more dope

or that sick people should get proper meds rather thatn waht they can scrape up, you need to read what both myself and the other poster are saying should be happening...

[FLDCVADem]

130. Yeah, real authoritarian

"You shouldn't be able to use taxpayer money to pay for illegal drugs".

That's practically Hitleresque. *sarcasm* in case it's needed.

[bobbolink]

149. We poor folk deal with this kind of mindset all the time, and yes, from "PROGRESSIVES"

Yet, when we express our outrage at what we are constantly facing, we are berated for our righteous anger. Bless Panther for putting this out there, straight up, as usual!

I hope these heartless idiots are very soon on the receiving end of the injustice they endorse.

[FLDCVADem]

153. Some injustice

I don't want to pay for someone's heroin or cocaine and that's an injustice?

[bobbolink]

158. That's the same attitude as Bill O'Reeally.

Congrats for keeping such good company.

[FLDCVADem]

164. So you do in fact advocate taxpayer subsidies

for cocaine and heroin?

[bobbolink]

168. Go back to listening to Drug Boy himself.....I'm sure you are a regular listener.

[FLDCVADem]

180. It must suck to be so bitter

Anyone that disagrees with you must be a fan of right wing hacks.

[bobbolink]

184. On the contrary, its very freeing to recognize controllers and haters, whether they claim to

be on the right, or on the left.

Their MO is the same.

[Luminous Animal]

198. I am. I am for sweeping decriminalization of all drugs

and comprehensive harm reduction which means includes state sanctioned and state provided drugs provided to addicts.

As proven in Portugal, 5 or so years of decriminalizing drugs has reduced teen usage of drugs and have reduced addiction. It has also saved the country oodles in incarceration, judicial, law enforcement costs, and health care costs as cleaner drugs have resulted in cleaner healthier AND more productive addicts.

[AlienGirl]

207. I agree; the Portugal model is the way to go.

[undergroundpanther]

187. yeah I know

authoritarians suck

[mn9driver]

11. A drug test for government money? Sure.

The military has done this since 1981. But there are other recipients of government salaries not currently drug tested that should be: The legislators that propose and promote this kind of horseshit.

I'm not saying that someone who tests positive for illicit drug use cannot hold office---just make it public and don't pay them--just like the people they propose to punish.

[laughingliberal]

225. I love that idea. Make it public and don't pay them!

I also have suggested we test any executives who got bonuses from any Wall Street company or bank that received bailout funds. Hell, they're living on our money and probably buying a lot better drugs with it than any of the poor can get.

[Maru Kitteh]

18. 1) All kinds of stupid shit gets introduced to legislatures all over the country, it doesn't mean

that even the person who introduces it expects it to pass. Oftentimes they just want a snippet for their next campaign flyer.

2) NE is a paygo state with a hellatious projected budget shortfall. There is no way a hugely expensive, cumbersome bucket of nuttiness like this is going to go through. NE is operating on bare bones right now.

[Fumesucker]

19. Would these test include alcohol and nicotine?

Both are considerably more addictive than the most commonly used illicit "drug", cannabis..

[FLDCVADem]

20. More addictive, but legal n/t

[Fumesucker]

29. So what?

They are addictive drugs and people on welfare shouldn't be using taxpayer money to buy them..

[FLDCVADem]

30. I think they shouldn't either

But I'm more likely to support refusing to pay for illegal drugs than I am for legal drugs.

[Fumesucker]

39. Why?

The most common illegal drug (and the easiest one to find in a test) is clearly less dangerous and addictive than either of the legal ones I mentioned.

[FLDCVADem]

48. Does the term legal mean anything to you? n/t

[Fumesucker]

54. Not when it's entirely arbitrary and based on bigotry and racism, no..

The history of the drug laws in the US is quite remarkable, it's really a shame that so few people know the truth about them.

http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/History/whiteb1.htm

[FLDCVADem]

58. I didn't notice in the article that

denial of payment would be based on the race of the drug user. Guess I missed that.

This is just one of those agree to disagree things. I'm never going to agree with paying welfare payments to addicts that refuse treatment/rehab, and you think it's fine and dandy.

[Fumesucker]

64. You didn't read that lengthy article that quickly..

[FLDCVADem]

67. The OP was posted an hour and a half ago

I can certainly read faster than that...

[vadawg]

31. so you agree with the premise, we just have to agree on which drugs to test for...

[Fumesucker]

38. Not exactly..

I don't like the idea but I think that if mind altering addictive drugs are going to be tested for it should be all drugs, not just a subset.

BTW and FWIW, I'm on foodstamps and don't use any mind altering addictive substances, legal or illegal so I would have no problem passing the test.

[vadawg]

47. then i would have no problem with you getting taxpayer assistance.

:)

[Brickbat]

22. Since Janssen gets government money too, I propose he's tested every payday as well.

It's only fair.

[vadawg]

23. this is one thing we should be doing, testig our politicians, also as i said polygraph their asses

i get tested and have to have polygraphs or i lose my job so why not for the guys who make all the big decisions...

[Brickbat]

62. Same with Mr. Brickbat. It's terribly demeaning.

[FLDCVADem]

71. I don't find the federal employee testing demeaning at all

At least I get to close the stall door and pee in the cup in private. In the military, you have to leave the stall door open and be observed the entire time. They literally have to see the urine leave your body and enter the cup.

No fun being on the observer side of that either.

[Brickbat]

75. Mr. Brickbat works on the railroad, and they just recently successfully bargained to avoid

observed urination. Not sure what they had to give up for that, though.

[FLDCVADem]

78. Literally 30 minutes after I became an NCO

I had a phone call to come be an observer for random drug tests. And the AF didn't screw around - if you couldn't produce enough urine within 4 or 5 hours, you were taken to the hospital to have a catheter inserted.

[Brickbat]

93. Ha!

I can't remember what the consequence is for non-production on the railroad; I'll have to ask Mr. B when he gets back.

[Brickbat]

266. So apparently

if you can't produce, they just sit and wait for as long as it takes. Because of this, everyone pees at home before they come into work, or they stop and pee right before they get on the property, so if they have a piss-test before they get on the train, they'll make the testers sit and wait (and hold the train) until they're good and ready. They rarely, but sometimes, will stop a train to do a test, and the guys will often hold it as long as they can. It shuts the whole line down.

[Cid_B]

260. Joys of being an NCO...

Always fun to decide who gets observer duty...

[Bill McBlueState]

37. the article says Michigan tried this already

but the courts tossed it out.

Douchebags who support this kind of thing can feel good about proposing such a law, but it's not going anywhere.

[Bill McBlueState]

40. K/R

Not because of the bill, but because of your analysis of it.

[apocalypsehow]

86. Damn, what's next? Make me stop getting tanked up before I use public roads? Fascism on the march!

:cry:

[vadawg]

88. rofl not sure if you meant this to be funny, which is why its fecking hysterical

bravo

[FLDCVADem]

89. I was just about to post

how this made me laugh!!

[Sebastian Doyle]

98. If there are to be any drug tests in Nebraska, the first one tested should be Ben Nelson

because he's obviously on SOMETHING. Also he's a big fan of welfare (the corporate kind).

[Forkboy]

103. Bonus points for drawing out two people I totally expected to see.

[here_is_to_hope]

195. *snicker*... n/t

[ismnotwasm]

108. Well THAT's bullshit

Nasty, nasty bullshit.

[mochajava666]

114. I am a little surprised at the lack of compassion

for the less fortunate. Billions of our tax dollars given away as bonuses to wall street scumbags, and people around here are obsessed with poor people getting high?

BTW, those wall street people get to write off their liquid "lunches" on the taxpayers' dole. Good thing it's not poor people enjoying themselves at power lunches, or people would be upset around here. Oh, and since we are paying for their (legal) alcohol, I guess it's OK then.

[FLDCVADem]

119. I'm not in favor of the Wall Street handouts any more than you are

I'm also not in favor of paying for cocaine and heroin addicts. I'm more than happy to pay for rehab/treatment, but if that is refused, why should the addict continue to receive welfare?

The mindset has obviously changed since my family was on foodstamps in the mid-1970s. With little to no money, non-necessities went out the window. My parents were of the mind that if they couldn't afford to feed their kids, they surely couldn't afford cigarettes and beer. They quit smoking, and until we were back on our feet, money went for needs, not wants.

And you might want to bone up on tax law - lunches haven't been fully deductible since 1993 as far as I know.

[mochajava666]

243. This is about pot, not cocaine or heroin

Pot is by far the most common drug found by testing. Do you really think that pot is more harmful to society than alcohol? Domestic violence is almost always related to alcohol and almost never to any other drug. Ask any cop.

Haven't we punished the poor enough? Already the sin taxes fall more heavily on the poor as a proportion of their income. Have you ever known an addict? Cutting off the small amount of income they are given will cause an increase in crime. More tax money for jails is OK as long as the inmates were poor to begin with? Sounds like you would like to ban booze and cigs to the poor also. If you know any poor people, and you see them smoking or drinking, I'm sure they would like a lecture from you on how they need to spend their money better.

And you might want to bone up on how government workers claim per diem. You can guzzle as much booze as you want up to the food allotment for that meal. You can usually eat 2-3 nice meals on an allotment, so that leaves plenty to get shit-faced on the governments dime. But as long as those people are in suits and wear rolexes, I guess that would be fine with you. You certainly have problems with the poor peoples' "per diem".

If you cared about poor people at all, you would be writing on the need for better drug treatment facilities, not complaining about the tiny amount of tax money that is spent by the poor people on pot.

Have a sense of proportion. The poor are shitted on every day, even in a progressive forums like DU.

[bobbolink]

253. Surprised? Then I'm glad you are getting this education.

I wish you could walk in the shoes of us poor folk for a while, and see the ugliness we have to deal with on a daily basis.

What you see here in lack of compassion is just a taste.

Its truly pathetic.

[mochajava666]

283. I'm not surprised that the poor get shit upon at all

I've worked at or near minimum wage for more years than I would like to admit, and I think the lack of dignity given to a low wage laborer is even more of an insult than working much harder than most, and making much less.

I'm not quite sure how you got the impression that I needed an education on being poor. I'm just trying to keep my house with help from my parents. Money stress sucks. It could drive one to drink or take illegal drugs...

[bobbolink]

284. You said you were surprised, I assumed that meant you were surprised.

Sorry for what I misunderstood. :shrug:

The education is that this is what we receive all the time from "progressives". If that surprises you, as you indicated, then its good that you now know this is what we receive.

[mochajava666]

289. Sorry, my fault for not being very clear

I was just surprised to see the patronizing attitude toward the poor coming from this forum, and having so much support.

I've been lurking here since 2004, and I thought I knew what to expect around here. The Horatio Alger myth still lives on, even in self proclaimed progressive discussion boards. That was an education for me. And here I thought my cynicism couldn't reach new heights...

[bobbolink]

291. Yes, that is what I thought you meant, and why I replied as I did.

As I said, it is very hurtful to think that its obvious you would have support from a "progressive" group, and find this kind of painful junk.

I *will* say, it is across the board among "progressives"--it isn't just DU. For instance, how often have you heard anything about poverty or homelessness on Air America, or Rachel, or Keith? I've even been stunned to hear the one I appreciate the most, Thom Hartmann, say untrue and stereotypical things about homeless people!

It all hurts.... that was what I meant... that now you can see what we deal with, and understand the pain. One wouldn't expect it, so it hurts that much more.

And, yes.... about the cynicism. I'm definitely not the same person I was before this happened to me.

I hope we understand each other better now.

What I said wasn't a cut to you.... it was simply stating the pain that we go through dealing with the ignorance and the heartlessness, and wanting others to hear that pain.

[mochajava666]

292. Thanks for sharing.

Especially with "low poster" such as myself.

[bobbolink]

294. Oh, you're very welcome! I'm glad you spoke up.... as you can see, poverty

isn't a popular issue, so those who care are very important to us!

It would be really silly to judge someone on "post count"....besides, its against the rules.

You have as much to say as anyone else, and its just as important.

Hope to hear from you again! :hi:

[Kitty Herder]

118. So now it's the death penalty for using drugs?

Make no mistake, poverty kills. People die when they have to live on the street.

And how the fuck do they expect drug users to ever improve their lives? They need help. They don't need to be kicked when they're down.

[FLDCVADem]

121. Absolutely they need help

I said that in my first response and in numerous posts since then. But if they refuse the help, the rehab, the treatment...they should be cut off.

[Kitty Herder]

132. And then what?

Just let them die?

[FLDCVADem]

134. It's their choice

If someone would rather stay addicted than accept help, then they've made their choice.

[Kitty Herder]

147. Have you ever known an addict?

Have you ever watched them wrestle with their addiction?

Some people will try and try over and over again to beat it and never win that battle. I've seen it.

The thing to do is refuse to give up on them. Ever. Who knows? It might work on the 95th try.

[vadawg]

136. and then what, what do you suggest, giving them all the drugs they want

mayby doubling their welfare, there are no easy solutions but you can only give people so much help...

[Kitty Herder]

144. Give them foodstamps and some equivalent that can only be used for housing and utilities.

[FLDCVADem]

159. Now that I could absolutely agree with

But no cash assistance.

[Kitty Herder]

163. Well then, we agree.

:)

[bobbolink]

123. I'm sure this is what ALL "aid" is coming to.

I hope, if it does, it is applied to ALL citizens of this country.

Big Brother for one, Big Brother for all.

Thanks, Panth... when it comes to justice, you are the BESTEST at keeping us informed! :hug: :loveya:

[TransitJohn]

137. Yep.

If you get injured on the job, what's the first thing that happens? Urinalysis. It has everything to do with the fact that if you come back hot for smoking a jay off duty weeks before the hypothetical accident, you are shit out of luck as far as having any coverage under your state's worker's compensation laws. Ain't insurance grand?

[undergroundpanther]

197. Bobbo I loves you!

Purrrrrrr...

[bobbolink]

274. .

:loveya:

[treestar]

152. I hate right wingers

Anything they can use to punish people, they will. Or morally judge them.

[Flaneur]

157. Too bad we have some inhabiting this thread.

[FLDCVADem]

166. Got it

If I don't want to pay for someone's heroin or cocaine, I'm a right-winger.

Incredible.

[treestar]

173. It sounds like them

the pompous, "I'm paying for it." So there is no expense you'd spare to give the tests and make every poor person go through with the test, even though many or most aren't on drugs.

[Luminous Animal]

211. That you take an athoritarian approach towards those who live in poverty and

receiving assistance is what brands you as one who sides with right wingers.

[devilgrrl]

254. I had no idea that you could make enough on welfare to sustain a coke or heroin habit.

:popcorn:

[Hansel]

277. Kind of blows their BS right out the water doesn't it?

At 1st I was giving them the benefit of the doubt, but there are 2 on this thread that have done a good job of exposing exactly who and what they are.

[Flaneur]

165. Tough luck classist authoritarians: This shit is UNCONSTITUTIONAL.

Ever heard of the Fourth Amendment?

http://www.talkleft.com/story/2003/04/10/879/80591

Welfare Drug-Testing Law Struck Down
By Jeralyn, Section Court Decisions
Posted on Thu Apr 10, 2003 at 07:39:10 PM EST

A divided Sixth Circuit Court of Appeals Wednesday invalidated a Michigan program that required welfare applicants and recipients to submit to drug tests.

Under the Michigan program, people applying for welfare through the state's Family Independence Agency would be tested for illegal drug use, and 20 percent of those receiving welfare assistance would be randomly tested every six months.
....The ACLU sued on behalf of all Michigan welfare recipients, and U.S. District Judge Victoria Roberts issued a restraining order to stop the testing, saying it likely violated the Fourth Amendment's protection against unreasonable search and seizure.

A three-judge panel of the 6th Circuit Court of Appeals reversed Roberts' decision in October, saying the program was based on a legitimate need to protect the children of recipients and the public. But on Wednesday, the full court changed course and affirmed Roberts' ruling.

The ACLU hails the ruling.

It was a long time coming, but this ruling affirms that being poor is not a crime. Low-income parents should not be required to choose between providing for their children and relinquishing their privacy rights," said Kary Moss, Executive Director of the ACLU of Michigan and an attorney in the case. ....In the five weeks that the program was in effect, the drug tests were positive in only eight percent of the cases, a percentage that is consistent with drug use in the general population. Of 268 people tested, only 21 tested positive for drugs and all but three were for marijuana.
Michigan is the only state that had such a program.

[FLDCVADem]

171. Please explain what is classist

about not wanting to pay for heroin and cocaine.

I'm curious as to your response.

[Flaneur]

175. Well, for starters, your assumption that people on welfare are a bunch of junkies.

Got any evidence to support that?

In this case of Michigan I cited above, they tested 268 people, 21 tested positive, 18 of them for pot. Not heroin or cocaine.

[FLDCVADem]

182. I never made that assumption

Try again.

[Flaneur]

204. Then why do we need to drug test that particular class of people?

Without any particular suspicion?

[laughingliberal]

221. It was mentioned in the article that courts in several states have struck similar laws down for that

reason-testing randomly with no cause for suspicion is a violation of 4th amendment rights. Thank the stars the poor still have some constitutional rights.

[treestar]

178. If you're not poor, you don't have to apply for welfare

if you are rich or middle class, nowhere is it assumed that you are doing drugs.

[treestar]

174. And its being suspected of another crime

Just for being poor. As if you are likely to be on drugs because you are poor.

[bobbolink]

189. We are treated as criminals from the start.

Then people wonder why we are angry.

Yes, this is life now for so many of us.

Can you now begin to see WHY I have been pushing all of this so hard??

The hard-ass attitudes you see here are what we have to contend with every fucking day. And, yes, some of them call themselves "progressives" and pat themselves on the back for being soooo "aware".

[Donnachaidh]

185. start a petition to REQUIRE ALL state legislators be regularly drug tested

And see how much THEY squeal about the invasion o9f privacy.

[rasputin1952]

239. Alcohol too! After every meal, they should submit to an alcohol

test. At the beginning of each day, they should be tested before entering the Chamber or upon leaving. Any trace of alcohol or any mind altering medication/drug would make their vote null and void. I don't care if the med was prescribed or not, it is still mind altering...so they don't get to have their vote counted. 3 "strikes" and you are tossed out of the legislative body, banned for life from serving again in a position of public trust, and should face a mandatory 5 years in prison.

Let's see how well they would stand up to scrutiny, let's see how they would stand in the face of public humiliation...easy to pick on the poor and defenseless...let them hold themselves to the same standard.

And I'm here in Nebraska! This asshole has heard from me, and will continue to hear from me...:grr:

[Donnachaidh]

265. hey -- what's good for the goose, etc...

These people get FAR more money than welfare recipients AND they make decisions that effect the community -- they should be CLEAN and SOBER and be able to PASS any drug or alcohol test that WE, their employers, want to throw at them.

Quite frankly I think we'd see a swift end to this testing nonsense if our public servants were subjected to the humiliation everyone else is.

[bobbolink]

275. Thank you! I like your spunk, and sure glad you are on OUR side!

:yourock:

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

192. Employer drug tests allow for prescription meds.

[Kulshan]

206. Discrimination

This is first and foremost a racially discriminatory bill. We have a high number of poor, minority people without opportunity, decent jobs, housing, &c. and all the problems that come with that. The county seat "town" population in the county where I live is over half Hispanic.

As much as I wish it weren't true, we have a high number of bigots as well. I've even heard the "N" and "S" words several times recently, something I had thought was a thing of the past. I was totally in shock the first time I heard them. I've also heard the horror of being outnumbered by those "Ss" expressed by "lily" people living in XXX.

This bill will shift the cost from medicaid to other 'services'. It is another way of furthering the 'welfare queen' myth from the Reagan era as well as an extension of the 'druggies are evil' myth. It is a way to avoid dealing with the real gateway drug for the poor: poverty. It is a way to "save" dollars at the expense of those less fortunate. It is a way to keep the prisons and jails full to insure funding.

This is a bad bill which will create many problems and solve none. It will also serve to justify hate.

[laughingliberal]

227. +1000 nt

[1]

209. just say no. right?

[Flaneur]

210. "Lawmaker Calls Testing Welfare Recipients for Drugs Racist"

Not Nebraska, but West Virginia, where similar shit has been introduced

http://www.statejournal.com/story.cfm?func=viewstory&storyid=73442

Delegate Sally Susman, D-Raleigh, said a Republican proposal to drug test welfare recipients is a "crack-pot idea."

A Republican proposal to require drug tests for welfare recipients is not only costly, it’s racist, a state lawmaker said Thursday.
Republicans in the state House of Delegates are pushing for laws during the current legislative session they say would cut down on fraud in the welfare system, including requiring recipients to take drug tests to receive benefits.

Referred to as “a lawmaker with a conscious” in a news release, Delegate Sally Susman, D-Raleigh, said the proposal would cost the state at least $9.7 million and would affect more than 169,000 people. She said the state couldn’t afford the law, and that it was racist.

“I thought this crack-pot idea was the working of a single individual, but now the House of Delegates’ Republicans have made this Draconian measure a centerpiece of their alleged legislative platform,” Susman said.

<snip>

Using figures supplies by the West Virginia Department of Health and Human Resources, Susman said the cost of one test is $57.50. Multiply that by thousands of people and the costs run into the millions of dollars.

“When we cannot even provide enough money to maintain proper levels of school nurses, why would we want to further burden the state budget with this type of racially profiled testing of people who are on the lower levels of the economic scale,” Susman said.

<snip>

[krabigirl]

216. Um, these drug tests will really only catch pot smokers. The others go through your system fast.

While pot stays for a month..do I really care if welfare recipients smoke pot? Nope.

[laughingliberal]

226. It's a blatant violation of 4th amendment rights and the article notes that several courts have s

struck similar laws down as such in states that have tried to enact them. Being poor is not probable cause. On the other hand the executives of the bailed out Wall Street firms have shown some tendencies towards criminal activity like stealing the wealth of an entire nation. I would think that would be more cause to test someone than just being poor. And they're living very well off our money.

[proteus_lives]

228. I wouldn't have a problem with it in my state.

I don't think the taxpayers should support a person's illegal drug habit.

Test'em, if they test positive offer to help them get clean. If they refuse? No more money.

[laughingliberal]

229. Fortunately, the courts in states where these laws have passed have struck them down

The courts, apparently, do have a problem with the government drug testing people randomly just for receiving government assistance. Being poor is not probable cause.

[proteus_lives]

230. I don't think so either.

But why not known addicts or ones with arrest records? Keeping a drug problem under wraps can be difficult.

[laughingliberal]

231. Not unless all known addicts or those with drug records have to be tested.

If people have served whatever debt, then they should not be treated differently in the legal system because they are poor. I made the case above, though, that if we're going to do this we should absolutely test every executive who got a bonus from a bailed out Wall Street firm or bank. They are living on our money and have shown criminal tendencies by stealing the wealth of an entire country. They also have access to better drugs.

[proteus_lives]

235. Ok. Test them.

From Wall street to the ghetto. I don't think drug addicts should get public money without reform and rehab.

[laughingliberal]

237. Sorry, it's still a 4th amendment issue

We already have horribly draconian laws on mandatory sentencing for drug crimes. If people are free of whatever sentencing they were under and are not under court orders for testing due to probation or parole it is a violation of their rights to treat them differently because they are poor. Period. People are too quick to give up other people's constitutional rights. It has been a constant erosion over 30 years. And I am not in favor of giving up any more of our rights. And that goes for poor people, too.

As for rehab and reform, we did away with money to help people with that years ago.

[cali]

232. I would have a HUGE problem with it in my state

it's treating welfare recipients as if they're all criminals. its purpose is to shame and humiliate. sick ugly little people who want this

[laughingliberal]

234. Yep!

[RedRocco]

236. here in South Carolina

they want to start doing this for unemployment checks

[laughingliberal]

238. Hopefully, the courts won't stand for it

Being out of work is hardly probable cause to suspect drug use. But the erosion of our constitutional rights has been pretty relentless these past years. So, who knows?

[RedRocco]

247. actually it looks like they did it already kinda/sorta

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2010/01/14/business/AP-US-Unemployment-South-Carolina.html


The House approved a temporary law change that makes it clear the state will not pay jobless benefits to workers when, among other things, employers prove workers: intentionally or recklessly damage property worth more than $200; take or have illegal drugs; have blood-alcohol levels of .08 percent; sleep on the job or are insubordinate.

It also makes it clear workers can lose at least 10 weeks of jobless benefits if employers prove they neglected their duties, had poor attitudes or were tardy for work.

snip

Bingham said the legislation isn't an effort to simply crack down on workers. He notes it also stops the practice of employers filing benefits on behalf of their workers when they have temporary plant shutdowns.

While workers will still be able to collect benefits, Bingham notes they'll have to show they're looking for work. That, Bingham said, could discourage the temporary shutdowns because employers would face the risk their workers would find new jobs.

The legislation is, however, based on the harshest of three recommendations the commission offered employers on limiting benefits, Bingham said. ''I think it is the one that is most fair,'' Bingham said.

---

[GoCubsGo]

261. Nothing but a cheap political stunt

Usually, if someone did any of those things, they would have been FIRED before they could have a chance to get laid off. Never underestimate assholery of the South Carolina state legislature. And, never underestimate the stupidity of my fellow South Carolinians for not being able to figure out that this assclown's bill is more show than anything. Bingham is trying to look like he's protecting our tax dollars from drug addicts and other socially unacceptable people. I would bet he's also another of those imbeciles who conflate unemployment and welfare.

[change_notfinetuning]

241. Just assign one policeman to every American and get this bullshit over with. If

we're going to trample rights, let's take the express lanes.

It used to be you have to get tested because your job involves safety. But getting tested for breathing and applying for assistance, and no offer to help get off drugs from those caring legislators, is a far cry from that. Innocent until proven guilty, unless you're poor.

[mochajava666]

244. +1

[bobbolink]

248. "Innocent until proven guilty, unless you're poor." EXACTLY!

I never realized how bad the injustice system is for poor folk, until I became one myself.

All this talk about "all you have to do is prove you have a prescription", and all that bullshit.

IT TAKES A LAWYER. POOR FOLK HAVE NO ACCESS TO LAWYERS.

Legal Aid has been chopped to shit, and take very few cases, within a very small perameter.

Poor folk are SOL, and the cops know that, and so do most of these legislators.

[Mari333]

245. CAN WE DRUG TEST THE BANKERS ON WALL STREET TOO?

corporate welfare cheats?
no?
why not???

[devilgrrl]

250. Judging from the responses, people on welfare are all on drugs and leeching the system?

Got anything to back that up other than bullshit stereotypes fed to the masses the past 30 years?

BTW, bankers and military personnel get a most of our tax money. Shouldn't they be tested first too?



One last thing. There are a lot cold-hearted ghouls in this threat and you're all just sad, depressing people.

[Overseas]

252. Disgusting. //nt

[Bluerthanblue]

256. sounds good to me- take them off welfare

and give them free, immediate access to quality residential rehab programs. We'd have to open a hell of a lot of new facilities and that would create new job opportunities.

Healthy, rational people don't CHOOSE to be "addicted" to substances which damage them. It's called an "addiction" for a reason.

:shrug:

Our society needs to to take some remedial classes on compassion and community.

[FLDCVADem]

262. I'm all for that n/t

[rasputin1952]

258. My e-mail to Janssen...

Sir,

Isn't it bad enough that people have to receive such assistance in the
first place, now you want to take away what little they have?

Here's an idea you might want to attach to your "Bill". Every day, every
Senator gets a breathalyser test before entering the Senate Chamber; same
thing after lunch or randomly during any session. Anyone with even a
trace of alcohol should be refused entrance.

Every two days, a drug test should be administered to the Senate. Since
even many prescribed medications, used correctly and according to the
prescriber's instructions, can have an effect on an individual's thinking
process, any member of the Senate who tests positive should have their
vote annulled. Any illicit drug showing up, and the Senator is arrested
and charged with illegal drug use, removed from the Senate and prosecuted.

After 3 offenses, regardless of whether alcohol or drug related, the "3
Strikes You're Out" rule is applied. Removal from the Senate, prosecution,
and a minimum 5 year sentence and lifetime banning from public service.

I believe you should hold yourself the same standards you and your fellow
Senators would impose upon others. If you do not, you should not hold an
office of public trust.


Sincerely,

xxxxxxxxxxxxx

[The Midway Rebel]

259. Windfall profits for urine testing companies.

A war on poor people, down and outers and dope smokers cheered on and supported by the usual suspects at DU.

I hope your little dicks fall off. I really do.

[FLDCVADem]

263. I don't have a dick

but thanks for the sentiment! :)

[devilgrrl]

279. So you have a CUNT then?

eom

[FLDCVADem]

280. In that vein

I would say better to have one than to be one. :)

[The Midway Rebel]

287. You also don't have a CLUE.

[Jax]

268. Yep you nailed it

The 'usual suspects' always spout their right wing bullshit posts. They NEVER tell you what their progressive and liberal values are because they have none.

They never tell you whose Democratic Campaigns they worked for, what Democrats they vote for because they don't.

They usual suspects but pathetically transparent.

[AzDar]

276. The President lives in Public Housing... let's start by testing HIM and then working our way down

the ladder of those who are on the Government Teat.

[MrScorpio]

278. Too bad they won't do the same for corporate welfare

To be poor always means to suspect

[1awake]

282. I might support something like this if

I actually thought it would work, but it won't. Sure, it might work in some cases.. very few cases but overall it's just one more hurtle for people needing help to try and overcome. Besides the fact that it kinda does smack of anti-4th, the major problem confronting the "poor" and the "government" giving them money is not drugs. In my experience its jobs, training, and services that will allow them to achieve both.

[closeupready]

286. Agree with undergroundpanther.

+1