Been posting 10+ years online, and am little saddened by something from both left & right

[The Straight Story]

I have been online since the days of BBS's and I still recall 300 baud modems and compuserve/ao-hell.

In 2004 while my mom was in the hospital there was a tsunami.

Some (note I said SOME) on the left made it political. Some even went so far as to say bush caused it with some earthquake machine.

Now, with Haiti, we have folks on the right making it about politics.

All in all it seems like there are those who are afraid that a leader we don't like will do something well to help others, and instead of working with them on it we find ways to make it negative because when they look bad 'our' side looks better.

Disasters like we have now have nothing to do with health care and our problems here. Nothing to do with our wars. Nothing to do with our financial situation.

It is NOT about me and you and the US and our political situation.

There is a time, like now, to shelve it all and be constructive. Criticism over certain points or wondering if we could improve response? Fine. But really, why does everything have to be about who our president is and which party we are with????

Once in awhile it would be nice if folks, myself included (lord knows I am no shining example over the years), would just try to find the best ways to respond to a crisis and not spend so much energy finding ways that such a crisis could help them and their goal of scoring political points?

rush was whining about how the left might use this - while all the time he was doing the very same thing - trying to find a way to parlay the suffering of others into something political.

Both sides have done this.

And shame on us all who have ever done so, me included.

I am reminded of the song, "these hands" by Jewel - "In the end, only kindness matters"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfsS3pIDBfw&feature=fvw

[nadinbrzezinski]

1. Yep, both extremes have agendas

it is said that politics can be like religion... I believe it is, more than the other analogy, which is sports.

[Political Heretic]

The whole notion of a linear left - right line with "poles" and a "center" is absurd simplification

but hey... :shrug:

[qazplm]

4. absurd? no not really

such a notion would seem to capture a large number of people.

[The Straight Story]

9. The whole notion that some, in situations like this, care about such things

is absurd in some ways IMHO. And yet, they do.

[Political Heretic]

13. I always care about accuracy.

:shrug:

[The Straight Story]

18. Accuracy?

Fine - but where does that end and politics begin?

Was it accurate how some on the left portrayed bush after the tsunami? No. Some were motivated by pure politics and blinded themselves.

If you consider accuracy to be based on politics, then I am not sure how accurate you will ever be - politics can be very much like religion, where people pass up facts in favor of how things support (or don't) their personal beliefs.

What are your personal beliefs and how do they shed light on to this current tragedy?

[nadinbrzezinski]

21. Here is a little factoid that I read about

at one point... need to get source,

Essentially they did MRIs on people who were partisans... who is who we are talking about. They found that the same areas of the brain that light up in religious thought do so for partisans when you mentions things that are part of the dogma.

What is worst is that this works only with true partisans or true religious folks.

I found that scary because there is now directed commercials on small markets. There is the potential of doing adds on how your brains react.

[Political Heretic]

27. First of all, you need to remember this is a discussion board

And we can all keep more than one thought in our head at once. So sometimes I write about whether I think something is a good idea or not simply because I can, and you should check in with me (just as an example) as to how serious I think the issue actually is on a scale of 1 to 10.

I recognize that there are some people who have written threads saying some seriously stupid shit about the decision.

But all I've said is that I think there were better choices than a war-criminal. But the decision is MADE and I really don't care all that much.

So when you are responding to me, don't lump me in your head what whatever other posts you've read that you don't like. I can't control those.

I'll say again, I think there were better choices than a war criminal, someone without so much baggage and such a tarnished image - especially when it comes to dealing with disaster. There's absolutely NOTHING wrong with thinking that. But what's done is done, so good luck, I hope that he raises tons and tons of money for this desperate need.

You have a problem with any of that?

I said I prefer accuracy in specific response to the comment about the notion of a linear right center left political line. Different subject, interjected as a side note.

Finally, you are most certainly right about the danger of politics becoming like religion. That's true of everything where facts intersect with values. It's always a danger that bias will cloud judgment. In fact, there's not really any such thing as being truly "unbiased." We all have biases that influence how we perceive the world.

All we can do is our very best to recognize our own biases and acknowledge them, seek out as much information that might disprove our belief as we seek out information that might prove it, acknowledge we might be wrong and remain open to new evidence.

That's the best anyone can do.

I do feel a lot like you're not giving me a fair shake, because I feel like your conflating everything else you've read others say from multiple sources and ascribing it to me - lumping us all into the same boat.

On a scale of 1 to 10 (one being least important) the issue of tapping Bush rates about a 2 in my book. Only a 2 because I do think the facts support a candid description of Bush as a criminal, otherwise it would be a 1. I think there are better choices that don't carry so much baggage, BUT WHATEVER - now that its don't, I hope tons of money is raised.

I really feel like I've been compelled to spend way too much time defending something so simple, and I hope you'll agree its pretty fair-minded.

[Political Heretic]

2. And by "leader" we mean blood-soaled war criminal.

"All in all it seems like there are those who are afraid that a leader* we don't like will do something well to help others,"


*leader here is a euphemism for blood-soaked war criminal and torture enabler

Forgive me if I am less than enthusiastic about the choice.

[The Straight Story]

5. A good example of what I am talking about - is everything politics?

Really?

It just seems obsessive at times that every little thing in the world revolves around which party you are a member of.

Almost as if we can excuse things because it is the fault of 'party x' and since I am not a member of them, or a member of some subset of said party I don't agree with, I am not at fault but everyone else is.

Sometimes, it does not really have to do with politicians we don't agree with.

[Political Heretic]

11. I don't consider being a war-criminal to be politics. It would bother me as much if...

Obama asked a serial rapist to help fundraise.

Having said that, I know there has been lots of serious heat thrown around here on this issue, and I haven't been a part of it.

I think it was a tasteless choice, but what's done is done, and I hope he raises as shitload of money.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

16. It's not about YOU. It's not about how bothered YOU are.

Maybe Bush can do something useful for once in his sorry, useless life; and the fact that it bothers a few purists who'd rather hate his guts than see the utility of his involvement is certainly of no consequence to the desperate people who don't care where the help comes from as long it comes.

[Political Heretic]

26. As I said above, haven't been part of the hysteria. I don't like it, but I hope he raises tons of $

Because those are my priorities.

Doesn't mean I can't also say that the choice makes no more sense to me than asking a serial rapist to help raise money.

But its done, so I hope for millions and millions.

[nadinbrzezinski]

22. alas it WAS a poltiical decision

the same kind of decision after W asked his dad and Clinton to raise money for the Tsunami

The country is so damn divided that he needed junior to reach half of the country... or at least potentially one third...

Junior won't do much beyond his mug... but that is another story... and your reaction to Junior, and I don't care as long as he helps raise funds, is exactly what the OP is about.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

3. Thank you for that.

If I see one more post where somebody gripes about Bush getting involved with the Haiti relief effort I think I'll scream. Yes, Bush is a tool. Yes, we spent the last eight years loathing him and wishing he'd go away. But now he's stopped clearing brush long enough to team up with Bill Clinton at Obama's request to raise money for some people who desperately need it. And I, for one, am all for it. Maybe it's one of the very few useful things he's ever done, but it IS useful. If somebody sends in a few bucks on W's account, fine. I really doubt the Haitians give a rat's ass where help comes from as long as it comes, and I don't either. This isn't about politics and it sure as hell isn't about being too "pure" to accept Bush's fund-raising efforts.

[Abq_Sarah]

6. I don't care

if he dances naked with a can of bud light in one hand and a joint in the other as long as he can raise funds from his supporters.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

8. I don't want to see THAT, but what the hell, if it brings in some money....

[The Straight Story]

7. Indeed - I really doubt Haitian's are online right now caring about politics

I guess that is our job ;)

[TreasonousBastard]

17. Also well said, and I doubt any Haitian or aid worker cares...

if its Bush, Clinton, some Norwegian GI, or the Devil himself who shows up with some food, water, and a few medical supplies.

We, who sit here comfortably arguing over the best coffee of beer to post with, have the obscene luxury to complain about the "correctness" of giving aid.

[TreasonousBastard]

10. Well said.

[Hekate]

12. 5th Rec, my friend.

[highplainsdem]

14. K&R. Thanks for posting this!

[HBravo]

15. Love thy brother. No matter what the politics. nt

[omega minimo]

19. "A. LEADER. WE. DON'T. LIKE." ???????????????????? ??????????????????

:wtf::evilfrown: :wow:

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

20. Your question mark key is stuck.

[omega minimo]

23. The What The Fucking Fuckety Fuck key was not working.

:puke:

[omega minimo]

24. Don't Drink the KOOL AID.

:thumbsdown:

[Bluebear]

25. Sorry. Anything "both sides" have done does not equate what Rush Limbaugh said about Haiti.

[athenasatanjesus]

28. FYI those that believe in the earthquake machine aren't really left or right NT

[EmeraldCityGrl]

29. You're much more evolved than I am...

but I suppose I can bury the ax this one time provided there isn't a loss in MA and the right urns into the assholes from hell.

[Atticus]

30. I guess you are all much better people than I am. To me, it boils down to this:

Would it be "OK" if Limbaugh was asked to "unify America" and solicit funds?

If your answer is yes, it's clear that YOU have the problem: you have no standards.

I would actually RATHER have Limbaugh standing in the Rose Garden instead of Bush. He's an "OK guy" by comparison, and as many here are aware, I detest limbaugh.

We didn't "make it political". This has nothing to do with W. being a Republican. I'm opposed to ANY former president who is a war criminal from representing us before the world. There is no separate category for criminals who happen to have been President of the US when they committed their crimes. At least, there didn't use to be.


ON EDIT: Intended as response to OP

[GeorgeGist]

31. I think it's disrespectful ...

for anyone to be tooting their horn; at a time like now.