The constant flogging of President Obama drives people away from DU

[Politicub]

At least it's driving me away. I don't log in to DU as often. And when I do, there's a huge number of Obama-basing threads, and not a focus on constructive criticism. There's not a point in engaging in dialog when it's so one-way.

It seems that many DUers want to punish the Democrats by withholding their vote. When in reality, if we lose our majority, the only people we are punishing are ourselves and we damn people who have no hope or are in poverty to be left on their own.

There's a lot of good that has come from the Obama administration and our majority in both houses of congress, and of course, there have been things that I don't agree with or would have liked to have seen done differently.

I believe the effect of so much negativity breeds apathy. And when people are apathetic, we lose elections. And then, we all lose once we're under the boot of the GOP.

And for people who believe that the GOP will somehow be "the same" as Democrats, I urge you to educate yourselves on the overall record and impact of Democratic vs. Republican administrations. If you honestly believe the parties aren't different, then I'm not sure what argument could convince you otherwise.

[Bluzmann57]

1. Negativity often rules in here

I guess one has to have thick skin to be in here sometimes. My prediction-In 2010 Obama will do some wonderful things and will still get beaten and battered. It comes with the territory I suppose.

[Politicub]

88. What has helped me is getting out and meeting other folks locally

My partner and I went to the reelection rally for our congressman for the 4th district in Georgia, Hank Johnson, yesterday.

I left fired up and ready to work to get him elected. And, I'm getting to know more people interested and committed to progressive causes.

The Obama campaign was the first I have gotten involved with and I had a tremendous experience. But I believe that I'm going to have the opportunity to get more hands on volunteer experience with the Johnson for congress campaign.

[Adelante]

2. Well said

:thumbsup:

[Name removed]

3. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MercutioATC]

4. Waaaaahhh!

Seriously, do you believe that the effect an open discussion has on some people should matter in a forum such as this?

:wtf:

[Name removed]

5. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

6. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Skidmore]

7. I'm afraid that is the goal of the tactic.

Which is why I stay. I won't give into those who would destroy this chance at moving forward.

[flamingdem]

9. thank you for staying nt

[Bobbie Jo]

71. Exactly.

[Hansel]

76. +1

[Politicub]

82. Thanks for a dose of reality. I just wanted to express

what I was observing. I believe positive energy spurs more positive energy, and negativity brings more negativity.

I love DU and won't be able to stay away. But the constant binary arguments don't lead anywhere... they're just the same old same old.

[flamingdem]

8. I agree. Many are probably republicans in disguise. They want O and DU to fail nt

[BeFree]

11. Hate to say this

But it seems a lot of them hate America.

Sure, there is much to dislike and needs to be changed, but hate America?
Bzzzzzt!!

[spiritual_gunfighter]

35. Hate America?

Do you expect to be taken seriously?

[Go2Peace]

93. ahh yes, and you are not a "divider", "they" are, right?

[Raineyb]

95. Well you sound like a freeper.

Hate America? THAT is the extent to your ability to debate?

:thumbsdown:

Pathetic.

[Jamastiene]

104. Nice post, Georgie. n/t

[Kltpzyxm]

162. Hate America?

You're either with us or against us, hmmm?

[Myrina]

21. Wow, DU is really that important in the grand scheme huh?

:tinfoilhat: I want some of what you're smoking.

[flamingdem]

25. Who said DU is that important? It is important to DUers though whether you like it or not nt

[Politicub]

72. Agreed - It's important to me and I've been a member for years

I really enjoy taking part in discussions. And during the election, it was encouraging to come together with the goal of Barack Obama becoming president.

[Betty Karlson]

101. As a side-note:

You realise that constant beatifying of Mr Obama would also drive away people, right? Because some people say: "My president, right or wrong." Others say: "My President, right or wrong, will be held to account."

[Name removed]

36. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[treestar]

80. Republicans in disguise are possible

http://hillbuzz.org/2009/12/07/using-concern-troll-tactics-against-the-left-help-push-independents-away-from-democrats/

That's a definite plan of theirs

[flamingdem]

103. Thanks for the link, people on DU all need this info

It accounts for some of the sniping going on.

[Bobbie Jo]

134. This is so accurate it's scary.....

What needs to happen is this:

(1) We need to concern troll the concern trolls; go on their sites, pretend to agree with everything Dr. Utopia stood for in the campaign, and just put it out there how disappointed we are that he’s not being Liberal enough. Propel the meme that “this is not what we were promised!”

(2) Lunatic fringe groups like Code Pink and Moveon.org need to be revved up — make them go after Democrats they don’t think are Liberal enough…get them to force every bad Democrat out there into being MORE Liberal than they are now. Have these nuts drive people like Barney Frank, Harry Reid, Nancy Pelosi, Pat Murphy, John Murtha, and other BONKERS.

(3) Do everything possible to encourage the far Left to throw all their chips in, right here right now. Make the biggest push to the Left this country has ever seen…and make sure Independents see what is going on.

If Independents are driven away by too much Liberalism, and if we can stoke the Left into being as Liberal as possible, then 2010 will be an epic disaster for Democrats — who, after the way they behaved in 2008 and are behaving now, deserve to lose big.

Instead of concern trolling to dampen their spirits, which is what they did to Hillary and McCain supporters last year, we should troll to pump up their most Liberal firebrands…so those nuts can kamikaze the entire DNC with their zealotry.

http://hillbuzz.org/2009/12/07/using-concern-troll-tactics-against-the-left-help-push-independents-away-from-democrats/

Familiar as hell, no? :think:

[Hansel]

83. Some are folks who haven't gotten over the primaries.

They are loving all of the over-blown negative analysis of Obama because it warms their "I told you so" muscle.

[uponit7771]

122. +1

[Name removed]

133. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[sandnsea]

10. Join us in the BOG

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=388

Nice place to retreat to when the craziness becomes overwhelming.

[frog92969]

37. How appropriate

:rofl:

[Bobbie Jo]

74. How typical.

:eyes:

[Politicub]

73. Thanks! I'll join in the discussion there n/t

[goclark]

141. Thanks for your wisdom sandandsea nt

[Name removed]

12. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[patrice]

13. It's circular. Self creating. Self reinforcing. Self justifying. Low information speculation.

Don't get me wrong, I'm unhappy too. VERY unhappy.

but there's a great deal of difference in what it is possible to do about what makes you unhappy when you live in a relatively verifiable reality compared to living in a self reinforcing reality of one's own creating, like Republicans and certain types of political hybrids do.

[NJmaverick]

14. Very well said! Strongly reccing!

:applause:

[Name removed]

15. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[blogslut]

17. You speak of repsect

...while using invectives like "Obama-bot". Why do you do this?

[NashVegas]

19. You Fixate On One Word

While ignoring the substance of the issue. I have a pretty good idea why you do this, so don't worry about it.

[blogslut]

22. And you blind yourself to your personal hypocrisy

Why should I listen to you when you call me names?

[NashVegas]

26. You Don't Have to Listen to Me

By all means, choose the ignore button and we'll get along just fine.

[blogslut]

29. I'd rather not

I would rather you practice the respect you claim to desire.

[DisgustedInMN]

16. You might want to consider...

... the effect that glaring cognitive dissonance has on people who, despite some folks protestations to the contrary, have the best interests of the Democratic Party at heart, when they try to express themselves about what they see as harmful to both the Party AND it's members.

Just sayin'

[Bumblebee]

18. If you put enough people on your "ignore" list, it's still doable

but I definitely know what you mean!

[RBInMaine]

20. K&R ! Great post. Too many non-reality people that need to wake up and quit the constant bitching.

[EFerrari]

40. I love threads that complain about complaining.

:)

Maybe we need a forum where we can just complain about each other and free up some space in GD for occasional outbreaks of discussion.

[Mojambo]

23. Toughen up. n/t

[Name removed]

24. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[RBInMaine]

27. Yeah, but the constant bitching and whining about Dems on a DEM board goes too far. Try Freep if you

want to do that.

[renegade000]

28. It's the "I told you so" subtext that I can't bear.

I mean, it's one thing to be upset and the proceed to point to organizations and groups that will help steer the administration's policies to the left (and suggest courses of action that we all can think about), it's quite another to be snidely fatalistic about the whole thing. Maybe there should be more threads suggesting we all volunteer and donate to groups like Howard Dean's Democracy for America instead of proclaiming how downtrodden and demoralized we are.

[Scurrilous]

30. K & R

:thumbsup:

[Fumesucker]

31. Your title is unintentionally ironic..

Flog has more than one meaning..

http://www.ldoceonline.com/dictionary/flog

1 to beat a person or animal with a whip or stick: He was publicly flogged and humiliated.

2 informal to sell something: I'm going to flog all my old video tapes.

Edited to add link..

[EFerrari]

39. Nice one.

:)

[frog92969]

50. I'll take door number two

It's like talking to used car salesmen

[undeterred]

32. No, people are driven away by the nastiness

and lack of respect that some posters show toward others.

[Name removed]

44. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[blue neen]

54. I totally agree.

The negativity stinks.

[Name removed]

57. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[undeterred]

61. +100

[Name removed]

64. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

33. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Writer]

34. Okay... here's my elitist answer that will assuredly get me skewered.

But I will be honest. For the most part, the average Joe or Jane following politics doesn't know one end from the other. Their understanding of the political process is dangerously simplistic and typically follows the same logic of a football game. Us Versus Them. Black versus white. Red versus blue. Who's up today? Who's down today? Is every event a point for our side or a point for "their" side? They moralize Democratic victories as needing to be liberal victories, the ideological composition of the voting pool be damned. Some foolishly believe that if "we" just tell "them" the truth, and get them to accept that truth, then the proper voting decisions will follow.

To be very honest, the average Joe or Jane political observer is an idiot. They fail to identify the cross-cutting cleavages of party, ideology, regionalism, and history. The answer to every problem is simple and totalistic, based in some unifying ideal of how to run everything, whether that be a workable idea or not. And their ability to abstract entire institutions of people is second-to-none. They channel their senses of powerlessness over Congress, the Presidency, the media, lobbyists, PAC's and political interest groups, and so on, into characaturized stereotypes of monolithic leviathans who (magically) always seem to support the other side, dismissing the many examples that do sometimes go their way as hiccups in a system that is otherwise "rigged" against their interests.

So these people have no faculty to accept trends that go their way. They are looking to get angry, because if they don't, then their world view won't be supported. Remember, the system is a simplistic monolithic organism rigged against their interests. If it works, then that means there might be something right with the system, and that won't fit their theoretical assumptions about the world.

In a nutshell, screw the idiots and focus on workable plans. That's how democracy is supposed to work, anyway. I think it's so interesting how we accused Bush of being uncompromising and a despicable ideologue, but now these same idiots want Obama to be an ideologue as well, eschewing democratic procedures and essentially breaking constitutional structures in order to erect truly liberal systemic changes.

It's all crazy. And that's why I'm glad these folks aren't in government.

[Scurrilous]

41. Great post.

:thumbsup:

[renegade000]

43. it may be elitist, but you are painfully right

I do hope people take your words to heart: "In a nutshell, screw the idiots and focus on workable plans. That's how democracy is supposed to work, anyway."

There are a variety of tangible things people can do to try to pressure the administration to be more progressive. Maybe more energy should be focused on organizing and presenting courses of action, instead of conducting inane flame-wars. Like I posted in my previous thread, Howard Dean's Democracy for America is certainly one organization a lot of people on DU, including myself, can get behind.

[showpan]

48. A democracy is nothing more than mob rule

where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine. - Thomas Jefferson

The problem here and now is that there are only 3 percent who are taking from the 97 percent. We may be idiots to how their process works, but we ain't dumb enough to know when we are getting screwed by our own party. It makes me wonder if those P&R firms that are making millions sent a bunch of propagandists around to ALL the boards since their rhetoric sounds like it's from the same playbook.

[johnaries]

113. Agree 100%.

[begin_within]

38. The "overall record and impact of Democratic vs. Republican administrations"

is irrelevant when the current Democratic administration is essentially a Republican administration with a coat of paint.

[Mojorabbit]

42. Not me. The primaries were a thousand times worse. nt

[jesus_of_suburbia]

120. Most people who are left just never noticed it, did they?

[NashVegas]

45. Repost: Don't Let the Door ...

The constant promoting of Obama, from some quarters, at the expense of being respectful to other posters who ended up leaving or getting tombstoned didn't have any of his supporters crying when that all was happening. There could never have been enough "pizza parties" to satisfy the demand.

What comes around goes around. You can't control the conversation when it's not volunteer season. And if you can, maybe it's just as well that people go.

[Blasphemer]

63. "You can't control the conversation"

That is precisely my problem with the attitude of some of those from certain quarters - a desire to control the conversation. In actuality, what they perceive as "bashing" or "hating" has died down considerably but they will still jump on any one post and/or poster to wave as a banner proclaiming DU'ers to be haters and Republican operatives. I have no doubt that operatives exist, but the idea that it is completely onesided is absurd. If anything, I thing the scale tips in the direction of those bashing the "bashers". I don't believe I have ever seen a critical or disillusioned poster suggest that others leave DU but I've certainly seen the reverse. If a moderator decides that someone has broken DU rules, that person will be removed. I've reported people who were clearly trolling but otherwise, I have no problem with people freely speaking their mind. If someone doesn't like to nature of the conversations on DU and chooses to leave then, of course, that is their right but I have seen no indication that they are being driven off because some opinions posted here don't match their own.

[Politicub]

77. My OP was about my perception

Heck, I may not be representative of anyone else on DU, and I'm fine with that. If everyone in the world were like me, it would be a pretty crazy place.

[MarthaM]

46. It isn't driving me away

I still read DU daily, even though I rarely post. But I do open fewer threads.

[peacetalksforall]

47. I ask you to understand ... I don't feel I bash Obama. I question him. I bash

everyone who pushes the DLC agenda. If he enables it, I bash which I call criticism. When his policies push my buttons I trace it back to where I think it's coming from and I deal with rationalizing it in various ways.

I am still holding out hope that he has a stragegy.

For me the worst thing he could do is perpetuate the Cheney-Bush legacy in some areas - and he has. And some of his own unique declarations about rights are a horror to me.

I don't think it is bashing
I think it is expressing
how distressing it all is.
When I am left dreading and worrying.

I dread a perpetuation of Cheney-Bush.

Bashing is what trolls do to him and to us.
Bashing is also a one line message filled with disdain.
I don't bash when I pinpoint my fear and state why I fear.

The worst thing I can do is bury my head in the sand when I'm on DU.

(I can't stop to give all the examples - they are all over this forum when they happen, but he has done some things that are beyond Cheney and Bush - such as bringing Geitner, Bernanke, etc., then keeping them and re-nominating Bernanke - nothing has been started on the voting machine problem, other rights decisions are an abomination.)

I wanted him for his brains, his persuasive ability, what I think/thought his ideology is/was. And I wanted him for his seeming respect for women and children. It was a very big deal to me that he broke the minority ceiling/clutch on Protestant whites). But, when he does things that make him a corporate/DLC/Republican-lite patsy, I will speak out.

It's the issues, not the persona.

Which did you mean?

Edited to change the first paragraph.

[WT Fuheck]

49. We mustn't let good become the enemy of the completely mediocre.

We need to be thankful for the progress he's made, no matter how puny the examples.

[madrchsod]

51. i guess it was a good thing that du was`t around during the lbj years....

"hey,hey lbj-how many kids you kill today?"

[kiva]

52. Well, since the baiting of several people who

questioned the president resulted in those critics responding in anger and being tombstoned, you could also say that the constant 'he's perfect' meme drives people away also.

[highplainsdem]

99. Which was the apparent intent of that baiting, and in some cases it's been the same people doing it

since the primaries.

I have nothing against the people who don't believe anyone should be allowed to criticize Obama being given their own little corner of DU. However, I don't think it should be used for sniping at DUers elsewhere, or for ridiculing people they succeeded in driving away from DU, and I've been glad to see the mods coming down on at least some of that. It doesn't create a very good image of what supporting the president means.

I want Obama to succeed. But I also want him to keep his campaign promises. I would not be nearly as unhappy about the HCR bill, for instance, if it didn't include an individual mandate without a public option -- something he specifically said earlier would be a mistake. Having a mandate without a public option is extremely unpopular, and passing a bill like that is like giving the GOP a club to beat us up with. And every single poll about that is showing the same thing. If he can't deliver on the public option, then the mandate should also be scrapped.

I'll keep voting Dem anyway. I first worked for a Democratic campaign in 1968, and I've always voted Dem. During the primaries we had some people here saying they would not vote in the general election if Obama wasn't the nominee, and in some cases we had people even saying they wouldn't be able to support the Democratic ticket if Hillary Clinton was on it as VP, even with Obama, whom they supported, at the top of the ticket. I thought that was ridiculous, and I posted about it then, and I think that post is still in my journal.

There have been times I haven't been very happy with Dems running for office, but they have always been at least marginally better than the Republicans.

But I'm a political junkie. And I know there are a lot of people out there who will be turned off by a political party that doesn't keep campaign promises, especially if they control the White House and both branches of Congress.

And as a lifelong Democrat I reserve the right to notice when mistakes are being made and opportunities squandered, in a way that's likely to hurt us in the future.

If you honestly think Obama isn't making any mistakes, then you should be able to defend what he's doing and not feel threatened -- especially if other people here simply want him to keep his campaign promises.

[Better Today]

53. And then there are those who say the constant regaling of Obama

is driving them away when they see him as reneging on his campaign promises.


Go figure.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

55. In a democracy, it's the responsibility of the people to hold their public servants accountable.

Even if they have a (D) after their names and give nice speeches.

[hlthe2b]

56. The antagonism between the discrete factions...

that prevents much, if any discussion between the two, is driving people away--at lest IMHO.

[freddie mertz]

58. It's a discussion board. Different points of view expressed here represent diversity in the Dem base

Get used to it.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

59. This headline is unintentionally brilliant

Flogging refers to whipping someone but also refers to obnoxiously promoting something.

(eg. "Billy Mays was on the Home Shopping Network flogging Oxy-clean.")

Both factors drive people away from DU.

[jgraz]

62. +1

[Politicub]

90. How do you know it was unintentional? Hmmm??

Well, actually it was :)

B-)

[kestrel91316]

60. That's the intent. The trolls are paid to disrupt and divide and alienate us.

[itsrobert]

69. Yup the Insurance Companies are paying good wages

Ask the Democrat Senators.

[Bobbie Jo]

131. Democratic Senators

...but I'm sure that's what you meant. :)

[itsrobert]

135. No the correct usage is Democrat Senators

You don't say "he's a Democratic" You say "he's a Democrat".

[Bobbie Jo]

166. No, Sorry...

You would say...He's a Democratic Senator.

NOT He's a Democrat Senator.

Leave the word "Senator" out of it, and you would be correct.

Using the pejorative "Democrat" + _____________" is, well.....freeperish.

Just sayin' :shrug:

[HipChick]

87. There are sites dedicated to this..they even provide talking points for their trolls

[laughingliberal]

65. I think the constant bashing of liberals by Obama loyalists drives people away, too

I don't believe my role in a democracy is to sit down and STFU about everything so long as the guy in the White House has a D on his jersey. And it's not personal. I have posted and highlighted some accomplishments of President Obama. But I am not happy with the move to the right that the party has made starting with Clinton. We still go to the convention and write a party platform that I, largely, agree with but our leaders are governing way to the right of it.

And the liberal bashing is not limited to DU. But it was not a place I expected to find it. Most discouraging is to hear the insults against liberals coming out of our current Democratic administration. And I have communicated that to the White House on a regular basis. Week before last I told them it seemed like a concerted effort to suppress the liberal vote for 2010 and it has left me wondering if their objective is not to have smaller majorities in order to more easily enact a right leaning agenda.

The other question I have is what the people who bash liberals for their criticism of President Obama thought he meant when he said, "Make me do it?" Somehow that didn't suggest in my mind, STFU.

[Politicub]

78. I don't experience being bashed as a liberal very often

But being a liberal isn't mutually exclusive with supporting the Democratic Party or President Obama.

Surprise! You can be both supportive and liberal and work to affect change within.

[MaryBear]

66. soft spot

Ah, but some of us have a soft spot for DU, and come back even when we think we've had it with the negativity etc.

Some here are negative for the sake of negativity alone, disrupting deliberately. Others would do well to review their high school civics lessons. Those who expect any candidate to keep all or even most of their campaign promises miss the reality of what its like to serve in public office -- that once elected the candidate does not become a dictator. The most any can do is work toward achieving their promised goals.

I admit that I spend less time on DU than I would if discussions had less of this and included more substance. I would not mind being inspired to consider various well stated points of view on any topic.

[Maru Kitteh]

67. The Society of the Perpetually Outraged has a large and vocal contingent here.

It is true.

[Warren Stupidity]

68. "There's a lot of good" blah blah blah

well if that were true we would not be having all this "Obama-basing" you are whining about. Only it isn't true, so there is a fair amount of quite reasonable upset over what appears to be the third Clinton Administration, the continuation of Bush-Cheney war policies at home and abroad, and the awful outcome of the Health Care Deform effort in our corrupt spineless good for nothing Congress.

[Bobbie Jo]

70. K&R

True, that.

[anonymous171]

75. YOU KNOW WHAT BREEDS FUCKING APATHY? BETRAYAL

People get apathetic because they start to believe that NO MATTER WHO THEY ELECT NOTHING WILL EVER FUCKING CHANGE. So when pols like Obama get elected to "change the way Washington works" and then refuse to change anything, people get FUCKING APATHETIC. They aren't stupid or brainwashed. They are fucking tired of being fucked around. Obama can combat this cynicism by FIGHTING FOR THE FUCKING PEOPLE INSTEAD OF BOWING TO THE GOP.

[Mari333]

79. +10000

[Politicub]

85. Do you honestly believe that you are being betrayed?

Truly? I believe that politics is going on, which I don't have the stomach for much of the time.

But betrayal? Please.

[omega minimo]

96. So the Bankster bailout, war surge and the Health Care scam didn't do it for ya, huh?

[amborin]

126. +1000000

[Bluebear]

140. In many ways, frankly yes. PS "Betrayal, please"? OK..."Flogging? Please."

[Tailormyst]

154. Yes

[Jax]

84. +1,000,000

[omega minimo]

94. Their mistake was to believe it.

"They aren't stupid or brainwashed." Um yeah, they kinda are. :yoiks:

And for good reason -- IT'S HARD to sort out all the propaganda, lies, marketing, disinformation ...... those who aren't "stupid or brainwashed" know that that's what they have to do ........... which makes it easier to not believe false promises but hear what is said for what it is, not what we want it to be.

[shadesofgray]

108. So in other words, it's OK for Obama to lie, as long as people don't really fall for it.

Fuck that shit.

[omega minimo]

118. People heard what they wanted to hear. Obama used duplicitous, slippery language, all up until today

Did he actually "lie"?

You might learn something if you read my post carefully enough to understand it. "Fuck that shit' is defensive avoidance of facing the point.

[hansont]

97. Anybody paying attention to the "Orange Revolution" in Ukraine? Same thing

They promised "change", but it was just a marketing gimmick, and people are disillusioned?

Cause/Effect.

I will still vote Democrat, because they still are the only hope, but hopefully the rest of the base will finally get that we have to MAKE them bring about real change. Simply becoming a strong majority means little.

[shadesofgray]

107. +1 thank you!!!!!

[LWolf]

111. +1,000 nt

[pecwae]

129. Can't add anything more to that truth.

[Tailormyst]

152. you just described me :(

and it sucks feeling like I've been punked.

[FLAprogressive]

157. +1,000,000,000,000,000

[noamnety]

158. +1000 (nt)

[Hepburn]

161. +1,000,000

Case in point: My best gal pal ~~ registerd for the first time EVER in order to vote for Obama. Late 50s in age and totally turned on about politics. Now? Really disgusted and upset ~~ different prez...same shit, that is totally how she sees it.

Me? I worked my first Prez eletion in 1960 when I was in grade school. And I feel just about the same as my gal pal. I am really hurt watching what I thought was gonna be a change from the wealthy and the corporations to issues that help people. I feel like I got fooled and I am not happy.

JMHO

[Fading Captain]

81. The constant corporate ass kissing of the Dems drives people away

from the party, and causes them to flog Obama and company.

It's a two-way street.

[flyarm]

105. +1

[NorthCarolina]

116. +2 eom

[jpak]

86. Not me

I'm gonna stay and fight

:D

[Politicub]

98. Well, I didn't say I was leaving

It would be impossible to give DU up.

[omega minimo]

89. The apathy comes from the experience. Doesn't it? Some may feel their votes don't count

rather than feeling their vote is powerful.

As for the parties, it seems an open secret now that corporations run the government. Two parties serving one master. Your OP is well crafted. Maybe you CAN make what "argument could convince you otherwise."

[Dappleganger]

91. K&R

[WI_DEM]

92. I agree. I've been spending less time here.

[countingbluecars]

100. I agree with you. n/t

[depakid]

102. If the administration acted like it knew who its friends were

and didn't bend over backwards for its enemies, you'd see a different tone both here and out in the general public.

Of course, you can ignore all that and pretend the base is happy all of the time with the continual sell outs and slights.

[TomCADem]

106. Keep The Faith! This Is Like A Townhall With Some Trying To Disrupt It...

But others, true Democrats, who are trying to discuss and plan how to move the Democratic agenda. Others are doing their best to stop progress by only posting to attack Democratic leaders and the Democratic Party.

You have to think that if someone is so down on Democrats, why are they a Democrat? The answer is self-evident. They are not.

However, I believe that the majority of folks who view DU, not necessarily post, are legitimate Democrats, which is why I continue to post notwithstanding the concerted effort to try to dampen enthusiam and activism.

[Politicub]

143. I'm here for the long haul

It's interesting to see how many replies are of the "progressive purity test" variety. And it's quite binary.

I consider myself liberal, progressive, socialist, or whatever term one wants to use to denote liberal. But I don't need to defend that to anyone. It's more about choosing which threads to engage in or which to avoid.

[Hekate]

109. There's so much participation in this thread from Deleted Message and Deleted Sub-Thread...

... I'm impressed by their devoted attention. That guy named Ignore is really chiming in to the discussion as well. :D

Hekate

[Politicub]

148. :-) I noticed that too!

Thank you mods for keeping DU as civil as you can. :)

[LWolf]

110. The support for Obama's center-rights positions

on a supposedly "left-wing" message board drives people away, too.

Some of us are still under "the boot" with Obama in office.

Public education and teachers, for instance.

The buck stops with Obama, and with the Democrats in Congress. I hold them equally accountable, and I'm sure as hell not going to throw my votes away on people whose agenda is counter to my whole purpose in voting: to move issues to the left.

While I'm waiting for any "good" to trickle down to me, to my family, to my community, I'm watching a hell of a lot of bad being escalated, and I'm dealing with it directly every day at work, for as long as I still have a job.

[Politicub]

147. Maybe so - but from my vantage point, Obama supporters are

constructively criticizing and not just bellyaching for the sake of it.

Yes, you will be able to find those who fall all to pieces where any pieces of legislation from the last year is criticized. But the majority of the people here want to thoughtfully discuss how we can make things better.

You can turn back the clock. We can only move forward and work within our system. Complaining doesn't offer a solution. It just creates noise.

[LWolf]

164. Great words now.

Where were all the people who "can't turn back the clock now" when it counted...before we were stuck with Obama?

The bottom line? They could have been more discerning. They could have listened then, if they couldn't see it for themselves.

Okay. So let's move forward. What can we do to make things better now?

Obama said he would listen; that he wanted to know when he was getting it wrong. Forgive me for being skeptical, but we've been loud and persistent and he only hears what he wants to.

We've spent a year calling, writing, and applying that sort of political pressure, to no avail.

What else can we do to get him to change course? Convince more people first, so that the numbers of calls, letters, etc. increase? But then we're "complaining."

Votes are a legitimate tool. Of course, then we're "cutting off our noses."

What do you suggest? How can we get Obama to:

1. Support people, not corporations.
2. End the war on terror this year.
3. Refuse to sign the horrendous insurance give-away currently masquerading as "health care" and support health care legislation that is actually helpful?
4. Fire Arne Duncan and back off the privatization/union busting agenda for public education.

?

[bigtree]

112. 'positive' threads just don't float here. That's why it looks so negative

Rarely see the complainers about negative threads supporting 'positive' ones.

[ecstatic]

114. liberal bloggers, talking heads, and people who post to forums like DU take no responsibility

for their words and the negative vibe they put out there. They say--oh it's just talk, it won't affect people voting.

[NorthCarolina]

115. The problem is that anything aside from sunshine and roses is labeled as "Bashing"

Post a thread about concerns over "Health Care reform" and it is immediately labeled as "Obama Bashing" by someone.

Post a thread that discusses Obama's failure to live up to campaign rhetoric (ie Public Option vs No Public Option; No Mandate becomes How About a Mandate, etc), and you are immediately called out for "Obama Bashing". If Obama say's I never promised a Public Option during the primaries, and then a large handful of clips are posted showing Obama promising a Public Option during the primaries...well, without a doubt...it immediately gets called out as "Obama Bashing" by someone.

Post an article or opinion regarding Obama's failure to act with regards to DADT, or DOMA, and sure as death and taxes, someone will pop in to call you an "Obama Basher" and to quit your whining.

Maybe I was wrong, but I didn't think that DU was intended to be simply a cheerleading effort for anything with a "D" after it.

[QC]

119. +1

[FLAprogressive]

156. +1

[Terra Alta]

117. Just because Obama has a (D) after his name

does not give him a free pass. In fact, we should hold him to a higher standard than we do Repukes.. we know Republicans don't care about the poor, health care, gay rights, etc. Obama, being a Democrat, however, campaigned on these issues and should support him. Progressives feel as if Obama is throwing us under the bus... it isn't so much bashing as it is disappointment. I had so much hope in November 2008 after Obama's election.. but now, not so much. Yes he would be far better than any Repuke, and he will get my vote in the general election in 2012... but unless he starts keeping his promises and acting like a Democrat should act.. I will be holding my nose in doing so.

[sendero]

121. Good..

... let the "my team right or wrong" folks take a fucking hike.

[TexasObserver]

123. Critical discussion by the progressive wing is more important than your comfort zone.

[Politicub]

142. Ha! Discussion? Love that, but tired of repetitive tugs-of-war

and no one listens to another. It's quite useless to engage in that sort of "discussion."

[FLAprogressive]

151. +1

[Name removed]

124. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[EFerrari]

127. Are you bashing DU for bashing DU?!

[scheming daemons]

125. That's their intent. Lots of "fake left" paid posters working for GOP

One got busted last week in New Hampshire.


Their goal is to demoralize the Democratic party.



...and it is a tactic that works.

[Individualist]

128. The constant divisive tactics by DLC drive people away from the party.

[applegrove]

130. Creating apathy is a Republican tactic. Bashing dems over the head

in anger works really well and teaches some democrats how to hate their own. Remember some of the people on the DU are right wing role players. Don't take it too seriously. The Obama bashing threads can be avoided if you just read the OP.

[Name removed]

132. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[eridani]

136. There are more people flogging bad policy here than obsessing over personalities n/t

[grahamhgreen]

137. It's why I keep coming back - and reading passages to my (D) congressman!

But not him - his policies.

[TheWraith]

138. Amen. Kicked and recommended. nt

[western mass]

139. You mean like Corporate Dems drive liberals from the party?

The one thing Corporate Dems and the DLC crowd fear most (yes, more than the GOP) is that people will start questioning their corruption and lies and, as a result, start punishing them at the ballot box (or simply stop turning up).

[Politicub]

145. DU isn't "the party." My post has nothing to do with driving people from "the party."

Does anyone even read OPs? I was making the point about me - that I don't come here as often because of so much bashing and little constructive criticism. And I believe there are others like me... but maybe there isn't, and that's OK. :)

[Karmadillo]

144. I agree. No matter how much money he transfers to the rich and no matter how badly he botches

health care reform and no matter how much money he wastes on expanding the Forever War, we need to stay quiet. Not a peep, guys. We might offend someone. It's OK to criticize Republicans when they do those things, but we should bite our tongue when it's our team doing them.

[Politicub]

146. I'm assuming you need to master reading comprehension, since that's not what I implied in the OP

Maybe that's the problem. People jump to conclusions without reading.

Do you even understand what constructive criticism is? Saying everything sucks isn't constructive. It doesn't lead to solutions. And, you can use blanket statements to criticize our system until you're blue in the face, but it's not going to change it. Wake up and work within the system to change it. Get involved locally if you're aren't already. Offer solutions.

I'll be the first to admit I don't agree with every thing that has happened over the last year. But I'm for damn sure not going to say that it's not getting better than it was for the past eight years. And for people who think it's the same, I believe you'll never be happy with anyone.

The globe is going to turn whether you like it or not. Thankfully, we have a democratic president for the next three years whether he meets your requirements or not. And I'm hoping that we keep our dem majority in congress. Because if you really want to see some fucked up change, grease the skids to get the GOP back in power and see how that fits you. But know that I'll be fighting tooth and nail against those who believe that there is no difference between dems and the GOP. And when I say dems, I mean all dems - school board, state politicians, congress and the presidency.

Who knows - maybe you would love having the GOP in power. It would give you something even bigger to complain about and you could post in ALL CAPS to get your point across.

[Karmadillo]

149. I'm assuming you need to master reading comprehension, since that's not what I implied in my post

I was responding to your assertion that, "The constant flogging of President Obama drives people away from DU." The criticism of Obama seems justified given his actions on major issues during the past year. If one disagrees with the criticism, one can always defend transferring wealth to the rich or reforming health care to benefit private insurers or expanding the Forever War. One doesn't have to leave. And, as far as I can remember, I didn't assert or imply I would love having the GOP in power. Maybe that's the problem. People jump to conclusions without reading.

[earth mom]

150. You just can't handle the truth. nt

[FLAprogressive]

155. +1

[FLAprogressive]

153. Leave Barack Obama Alone!!!!

[Politicub]

160. Behold - a rude and nasty reply! What's the point? To try and belittle people who disagree with you?

:eyes:

[LeftyMom]

159. tl;dr

[proud2BlibKansan]

163. I find it ridiculous that some are accusing anyone who criticizes Obama of being a republican

or a rw plant.

That's your problem on DU. Not the criticism of Obama.

[Politicub]

165. WTF are you talking about? It can't be the OP

Maybe it's another DU thread.

Because this thread isn't about that at all. And if you believe that it is, I suggest you re-read it.