Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Any Architects on DU?

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU
 
rwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-18-10 10:38 AM
Original message
Any Architects on DU?
Haiti will need massive rebuilding. I read on DU a few months ago about "Flexible Concrete".

This could solve a lot of problems in earthquake prone areas.

Could we finally come up with some new wonderful design ideas?

Looking at boingboing.net, I am shocked and amazed at what I see over there. The ideas are incredible.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
UTUSN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-18-10 10:43 AM
Response to Original message
1. Actually, for funding, bankrolling this...
Why don't Dubai, the Carlyle Group, the Bilderbergers or whomever shift all their capital to building a total infrastructure and sustainable economy in Haiti. I'm not being flip.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Cirque du So-What Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-18-10 10:59 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. And do it without claiming an exorbitant chunk of their GDP for many years
Shit like that gives capitalism its deservedly bad reputation. They seem unable to look past the bottom line and consider intangible benefits to doing what's humane & decent.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
FarCenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-18-10 11:03 AM
Response to Reply #1
5. What does Haiti have to pay for all this?
Investors invest money now to make more money in the future.

What would Haiti produce in the future that would make it worthwhile to invest there?

Dubai has oil, or at least the UAE does. Haiti only has agriculture, but it also has a population that eats up everything that is produced and then has to import food. No minerals, forest products, or skilled labor.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-18-10 11:09 AM
Response to Reply #5
8. The usual, blood. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AngryAmish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-18-10 10:44 AM
Response to Original message
2. Does making couch cushion forts count?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
panader0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-18-10 10:44 AM
Response to Original message
3. Not an architect but I've been a bricklayer for 38 years.
When I look at the ruins in Haiti, I see very shoddy construction. Flexible concrete (I heard about it here too) is great, but just better techniques would help a lot. More rebar and bond beams would prevent the buildings from collapsing. I would gladly volunteer in return for room and board.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
izquierdista Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-18-10 11:14 AM
Response to Reply #3
10. It's what they can afford
And rebar was beyond budget. There is lots and lots of unreinforced concrete all over the Third World.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Brickbat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-18-10 11:15 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. Budget, and total lack of a comprehensive building code.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tridim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-18-10 11:06 AM
Response to Original message
6. Do former architects count?
There are certainly light concretes available that would help. They just mix in fillers (foam, pumice, plastic, etc). I've been wondering what they're going to do with all the old crumbled materials, recycling it might be an option if they can make it safe.

The real key is the foundations, they will need to float somehow instead of being anchored to the ground. Haiti can benefit from California's research.

I'm not sure if any of this is possible if they maintain the pre-quake housing density.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ProgressiveProfessor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-18-10 12:38 PM
Response to Reply #6
15. Actually Japan is at the forefront of seismic building
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
keith the dem Donating Member (587 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-18-10 11:07 AM
Response to Original message
7. I'm both an architect and an engineer,
But I'm afraid I can't be too much help. Here in NJ we don't have much need for significant seismic stuff.

There have been huge strides in earthquake design recently. Foundations that let a building move and heavy reinforcement are often used. All of those improvements are very expensive as I assume flexible concrete would be. I wonder if there is not research on how to build an economical fire proof sustainable structure that would be earthquake resistant.

The production of cement and the heavy steel required to reinforce a concrete structure to resist earthquakes is very energy intensive and a big source of greenhouse gas.

As shoddy as the construction appears to be in Haiti, I don't know if many of the most advanced designs could survive a 7.5 earthquake.



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HipChick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-18-10 01:35 PM
Response to Reply #7
17. looks like international funding was not in place to enforce building codes..
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NYC_SKP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-18-10 11:09 AM
Response to Original message
9. Yes, there are...
Where it's use is indicated, it would be great to use flexible concrete.

But that's not going to be appropriate in every case, it's not a panacea.

Few buildings there were built to modern building codes, many were masonry structures without steel.

Without steel, concrete is just rubble waiting to happen.

Maybe reconstruction will be done using modern earthquake-minded building codes as done in California.

This alone will go a long way, but only if codes are adopted and enforced.

THAT is the most important factor.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-18-10 11:16 AM
Response to Original message
12. Even simpler, institute building codes and inspectors to enforce them, then...
Edited on Mon Jan-18-10 11:17 AM by Javaman
set up a rebate for people who wish to add additions to their homes. (on edit: this is of course after the initial rebuidling is completed)

The big issue is really crappy do-it-yourself building additions.

No rebar, no structural support to speak of, no main supporting columns, etc.

But Haiti being the poorest nation in the western hemisphere, they will have to rely on international aid and support to achieve and support even a modicum of building code reform.

Haiti is a microcosm of a oligarchy. The span between the wealthy and the poor is a gigantic divide. So until that is fixed, nothing will be accomplished. I'm waiting to see how much of the money donated actually gets to the people who need it and not into the pockets of the rich who are distributing it. Remember, right now there are many organizations that are doing the right thing, in a few months, the aid distribution will default back to the government. It will be at that point, business as usual will return. The rich will keep the lion share for various excuses while the poor will continue to go hungry.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
hunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-18-10 12:06 PM
Response to Original message
13. Haiti is crying for an Autoclaved Cellular Concrete plant...
... and a subsidy on rebar and hurricane resistant roofing materials.

Autoclaved Cellular Concrete (AAC) is a lightweight cement block or panel that can be cut and installed with ordinary hand tools.

http://www.cement.org/basics/concreteproducts_acc.asp

Sadly, Haiti needs lots of things to become a viable nation. There are too many powerful people and institutions profiting from the unbearable poverty and corruption of political systems in Haiti.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
hfojvt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-18-10 12:10 PM
Response to Original message
14. yeah, sure, I used to work with Art Vandelay
of course my real passion is hanging out with retards.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
galileoreloaded Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-18-10 01:27 PM
Response to Original message
16. This really turned into an infrastructure pipe dream quick. Look, a freaking stop sign in the US
costs about $350 installed. Whats that, a years salary for the average Haitian?? You are now engineering them high-tech buildings??

Christ, some of us need to get out in the world and really try to understand Maslow's hierarchy of needs. Safer and cheaper to stack shipping containers and convert them. Not pretty, but they withstand most hurricanes, earthquakes, and flooding, if done right, are very inexpensive, and about 20 times better than living in a tent.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-18-10 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. Yep, until they stop "being poor", there are no real solutions
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Born_A_Truman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-18-10 02:02 PM
Response to Original message
19. CalEarth is raising money to send a team to Haiti
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-18-10 02:03 PM
Response to Original message
20. One of the things they do in LA for the high rises is to put them on
rollers, so when the earth moves they swing in the opposite direction. Some how this is supposed to lessen the damage from shaking. My husband was an architect and told me how it worked. It sort of make's sense though. My trailer withstands earthquakes better that the main house built on a foundation. But when you think about it trailers are built to be hauled on the road without being shaken apart too much. Maybe these innovations should be incorporated into our architecture.

Also, the ancient world had innovative architecture in earthquake prone regions by bracing stone buildings with wooden beams that held walls together better than just stacking the stones. The Incas built substantial buildings in an area in the Andes that is very earthquake prone and experiences tremors on a daily basis. When I lived in Northern Chile close to the Andes, we experienced small tremors on a daily basis. Our house was full of cracks in the ceiling and walls.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Fri Apr 26th 2024, 03:53 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC