howard112211
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Mon Jan-18-10 12:33 PM
Original message |
If Russia deployed a large number of troops to Haiti, DUers would be speculating about their motives |
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Regardless whether the recent comments of Hugo Chavez were justified, IMO they show one thing:
The long-term rebuilding of Haiti must be done by the United Nations.
Providing immediate disaster relief is one thing, but a long-term presence of national troops of any single country is going to raise suspicion. The USA is no exemption to this, given that its track record is less than perfect (a new sharp looking face at the helm does not negate this). European countries such as France, England, Russia etc. or China would equally raise charges of colonialism.
Also, such suspicions would ultimately probably be justified against any country. Countries generally don't use their national armies for selfless acts that don't lead to any advance in national interests.
Also, I think it is not wise to declare international crisis relief as an integral part of the mission of the US military from now on. All that would do is justify a further inflation of the military industrial complex. Such matters should be delegated to the UN. Countries that want to contribute should provide funding.
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Gman2
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Mon Jan-18-10 12:36 PM
Response to Original message |
1. When the ball is hit to right/center field, someone has to call it. |
HeresyLives
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Mon Jan-18-10 12:38 PM
Response to Original message |
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It shouldn't be any one nation doing this, and it also shouldn't be the confused collision of 30 or so nations we usually get.
Only one group should be responsible for helping in these events, and that's the UN.
It needs to be properly set up, and funded, but we have to end the confusion of who is doing what. People die that way.
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TornadoTN
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Mon Jan-18-10 12:39 PM
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3. The Russians have sent troops and equipment |
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Mainly search and rescue and logistics support troops.
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Democrat_in_Houston
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Mon Jan-18-10 12:43 PM
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4. The U.N. is turning away search and rescue teams saying they have "enough" |
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"The Texas unit, which has been on standby at Ellington Field in southeast Houston, was made up of 80 members including doctors and engineers. Four dogs were also part of the team." http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/6821324.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+houstonchronicle%2Flocal-state+%28chron.com+-+Local+%26+State%29&utm_content=My+YahooThis unit has been on standby and ready to go since Thursday. What the hell is going on? Liz (my first post)
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HeresyLives
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Mon Jan-18-10 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #4 |
7. There are teams in Canada as well that haven't gone. |
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Pretty well every country in the world has search and rescue teams available, but they can't use them all.
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ProgressiveProfessor
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Mon Jan-18-10 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #4 |
9. Part of the problem is the airport. Great post about it here |
inna
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Mon Jan-18-10 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #4 |
13. Warm welcome to the DU! |
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Good to have you here! :hi:
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ProgressiveProfessor
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Mon Jan-18-10 12:47 PM
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5. When its in your backyard and you have the resources, the right thing to do is step up |
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The UN will get there eventually, but will never have the ready reaction capability of the US or other major nations
The issue of control is actually where the UN could do some good. Developing standard plans that could be implemented so there would be an outline of what the roles on the ground are would be a good thing. It already exists for SAR and other areas.
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HeresyLives
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Mon Jan-18-10 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #5 |
8. The UN has been there from the beginning. |
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And it should be equipped with everything necessary to do the job. Everything in the world is everybody's back yard.
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ProgressiveProfessor
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Mon Jan-18-10 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #8 |
10. Been there, yes, effective??? |
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The UN does not have much expertise on the ground in the immediate crisis. This is due in large part to their lack of resources and experience. They do better once the immediate crisis is over as a long term solution coordinator. They could add value in helping to develop templates for such operations and even allocating areas of responsibility the way it is done with SAR.
I am not sure it would be cost effective or realistic for the UN to have pre-staged aircraft, personnel, and stockpiles around the world.
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HeresyLives
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Mon Jan-18-10 01:02 PM
Response to Reply #10 |
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The UN is not an autonomous outfit that operates on it's own. It's made up of all the countries in the world, and can only do what they allow it to.
They should have a rescue unit available 24/7/365 ready to go anywhere and provide anything needed.
It would prevent this nonsense of 30 countries all bumping into each other in the effort to gain headlines and look good. The current way means there is duplication, arguments, confusion on where to send money, no plan, no coordination....their radios aren't even compatible.
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ProgressiveProfessor
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Mon Jan-18-10 02:04 PM
Response to Reply #12 |
24. No they haven't been...in something like this effectiveness is measured in resources brought |
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Edited on Mon Jan-18-10 02:06 PM by ProgressiveProfessor
to the table. A better approach would be to go with something like how international SAR is done
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EFerrari
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Mon Jan-18-10 01:15 PM
Response to Reply #10 |
16. The two top UN mission leaders were killed in the quake. n/t |
HeresyLives
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Mon Jan-18-10 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #16 |
18. They have other mission leaders. |
EFerrari
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Mon Jan-18-10 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #18 |
20. Of course but that would traumatize any team. n/t |
HeresyLives
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Mon Jan-18-10 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #20 |
21. Natural disasters by definition are traumatizing. |
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But it's their job to put that aside, and get on with the rescue.
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EFerrari
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Mon Jan-18-10 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #21 |
27. Yes, that is their job. |
Igel
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Mon Jan-18-10 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #21 |
30. It means they're victims. |
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We tend to cut the victims of unexpected massive trauma a bit of slack.
Yes, I also cut the Haiti police who aren't doing a heck of a whole lot slack.
"Gee, do I risk my life fighting those people and restoring order, or do I try to rescue my wife and kids and find them food and water?"
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Abq_Sarah
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Mon Jan-18-10 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #20 |
28. Or it would mobilize them to action |
EFerrari
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Mon Jan-18-10 02:31 PM
Response to Reply #28 |
29. That's right. Some people do mobilize in emergencies. |
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All the women in my family tend to be like that. We should have all been EMTs or something. All that adrenaline, wasted. :)
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TxRider
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Mon Jan-18-10 01:15 PM
Response to Reply #5 |
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We have the ability to get there quickest, with the most aid, and are doing so.
Anyone interested in the people in need would not be slowing us down.
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HeresyLives
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Mon Jan-18-10 01:29 PM
Response to Reply #15 |
19. Again it becomes a pissing contest. |
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Many countries showed up, and fast, with lots of aid. This isn't a contest, and there are no medals.
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ProgressiveProfessor
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Mon Jan-18-10 02:03 PM
Response to Reply #19 |
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International SAR responsibility is allocated to nations, lead for natural disasters should be done the same way. Much the same with "templates". Not hard to build international contingecy plans,
Part of the problem is that the UN has had a hard time not considering itself the centerpiece of everything it does. Under its current format it would be better to allocate a lead nation with transition to the UN once the immediate/realtime crisis has passed (week?)
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TxRider
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Mon Jan-18-10 12:48 PM
Response to Original message |
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But occupation of Haiti would not be among the speculations... ;)
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anonymous171
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Mon Jan-18-10 01:02 PM
Response to Original message |
11. The Military Industrial Complex wants wars, not humanitarian missions |
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Edited on Mon Jan-18-10 01:02 PM by anonymous171
They sell weapons after all. There is no money in bread.
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inna
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Mon Jan-18-10 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #11 |
14. exactly. see this, it's chilling: |
leftstreet
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Mon Jan-18-10 02:06 PM
Response to Reply #14 |
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Thanks for posting that link again
It IS chilling
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malaise
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Mon Jan-18-10 01:17 PM
Response to Original message |
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I'll say one thing for the Obama administration - they did not arrive without signing the protocols. Chavez is not the only suspicious person - CARICOM is pissed that our aircraft weren't allowed to land since Haiti is a member of CARICOM. I'm giving Obama and the UN the benefit of the doubt for now because people are in need.
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jpak
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Mon Jan-18-10 01:33 PM
Response to Original message |
22. Disaster Relief = Colonialism, Obama = Bush, Up is Down, 6 is 9 |
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Now I HAVE heard everything...
What horseshit
:thumbsdown:
:puke:
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qazplm
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Mon Jan-18-10 02:08 PM
Response to Reply #22 |
26. there were posts on here |
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about how the military wasnt being used enough, that we should have moved quicker, now we have posts that say our military shouldn't be involved, we moved too quickly to put troops in.
I dont know how collectively we dont get electronic whipflash.
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Robb
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Mon Jan-18-10 03:40 PM
Response to Original message |
31. Red scare and charges of American imperialism, all in one post. |
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I have to say I'm impressed.
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spanone
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Mon Jan-18-10 03:42 PM
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Odin2005
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Mon Jan-18-10 04:44 PM
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