Do you think the HC bill would have been better had we 59 actual Dems

[dorktv]

not fifty eight and two Indies?

[dkf]

1. Reconciliation is the key to a better bill.

You only need 51.

[TheWraith]

5. Reconciliation can't pass most of the bill's items. nt

[dkf]

18. Health insurance abuse won't be fixed by Laws or regulations

They are fixed by dumping them for a public option. You can't legislate morality or good behavior

[WeDidIt]

6. People who spout the reconciliation line

have no clue how reconciliation works.

For example, claim denial due to pre-exisitng conditions cannot be banned via reconciliation.

[dkf]

17. No preexisting conditions clause for Medicare.

Support for a public option is huge. It's now or never.

[timeforpeace]

2. No, it would have been better with a strong public option and no mandate. Or Medicare for all.

[Mari333]

3. here is David Sirota's take on it

http://www.openleft.com/diary/16973/dems-inadvertently-signal-that-a-coakley-loss-would-strengthen-progressives-on-health-care

[NightWatcher]

4. "the magic 60" is a cop-out

they dont want to help the people. I take that back, the only people they want to help are the ones that give millions and billions to their election campaigns, throw fundraisers and employ them as lobbyists whenever we get around to throwing them out of office.

[dorktv]

8. I do not think it was or is a cop out.

The bill was going to be bad any way you sliced it but I think the Medicare buy in (which is better than a public option in my opinion but should have been expanded to include EVERYONE who wants to buy in) would have been left in if they did not have to suck up to Lieberman.

[alsame]

7. We don't have 58 actual Dems now, IMO. Nelson, Bayh,

Landrieu, Baucus etc are not reliable Democratic votes.

[BP2]

11. Two or three other wishy-washy Moderates in the Senate will bail, too.

[alsame]

12. Yep, there are enough DINOs to screw up any bill. nt

[dflprincess]

9. One of the "indies" is Bernie Sanders

we'd be way better off in so many ways if we had 59 Democrats like him.

[laughingliberal]

20. +1000 nt

[dorktv]

22. Oh yes, I know that with the 60th being Bernie we could have gotten a lot more.

[JVS]

10. It doesn't make sense that the 58 would let it be turned into such a bunch of shit.

And it would probably help if the president hadn't gone all in blind before a final form was found. His determination to sign a bill is detrimental to the cause of holding out for a good bill.

[branders seine]

13. It would have been better if we had even TEN real Democrats.

[RC]

14. If we had 59 actual Dem, read real Democrats, then

some form of Single Payer,Universal Health Care would have been on the table form the beginning.
We might be holding War Crimes Trials in this country also. But what do I know.

[Johonny]

15. No I think it would be better if we had 5-10 worth while Rethugs

But they wouldn't be modern rethugs if they were interested at all in actual legislating. I can't understand why any Independent voter in Mass would think the Senate would be better with even more dead weight. I expect a small fraction of dead weight in any party. But the whole Republican party is legislative dead weight. Basically leaving a 60 seat senate that needs 100 percent participation to work. How it's the Dems fault I never get?

[ibegurpard]

16. One of the Indies I'll claim

The other one should have been left twisting in the wind when he ran against the Democratic candidate.

[iceman66]

19. Yes,

if only because peoples' expectations would not have been as high!

We never had anywhere close to 60 REAL Democrats, despite what they call themselves.

[ddeclue]

21. Where are you getting THOSE numbers.. realistically we maybe have 45 on a good day..

when you subtract out the blue dog DLC'er types: Evan Bayh of Indiana, Tom Carper of Delaware and Blanche Lincoln of Arkansas, Michael Bennet of Colorado, Mark Begich of Alaska, Kay Hagan of North Carolina, Herb Kohl of Wisconsin, Mary Landrieu of Louisiana, Joe Lieberman of Connecticut, Claire McCaskill of Missouri, Ben Nelson of Nebraska, Bill Nelson of Florida, Jeanne Shaheen of New Hampshire, Mark Udall of Colorado, and Mark Warner of Virginia.