OK, here is what concerns me about the current direction of the aid effort.

[Leopolds Ghost]

It is basically being conducted the same way as it was in Katrina, with the same consequences, which we are excusing because the magnitude of the disaster is obscuring and eclipsing the number of preventable deaths that are now occurring. (and people are shooting the messenger when AC and Gupta are the only ones talking about it!)

This does NOT surprise me, so I don't put this on the Admin at all, since they have NOT learned from Katrina, VERY FEW people in power have, I KNOW this from working on post-Katrina issues volunteering to assist a relief org that is down there (not a significant role by any means, but aware of the problems they are having) for the past 2 and a half years.

I KNOW there's been no accountability for past focus on security and treating survivors as a security threat (up to and including setting up armed cordons on US soil) over organizing the survivors and providing humanitarian aid THRU them (as has been the way these things get done for thousands of years if we truly care and respect the people living in what is THEIR OWN country, NOT a US state.

Moreover, even taking for granted this is a UN protectorate set up by the US, run by a US installed "democratically elected" kleptocrat, BRAZIL and Bolivia are in command and control, and that command and control has been snatched away from them by the US military, which is doing an admirable job of mass logistics but preempting everyone else's. They are also keeping 9 out of 10 of their forces off-shore. Why? Because those forces not in logistics are trained to fight or do security operations, not organize people not in their unit into teams and rely on them to help others.

The following is a compilation of observations on another thread while watching MSNBC, so I apologize for the Tweety nature of this post:

Tonight, on ED show, it was all about Admin officials, pols and Clinton saying

We need security, we need to prevent a failed state in Haiti, this is about providing security and infrastructure VERSUS humanitarian relief, Sen. Melendez's words not mine, Clinton and Preval appearing together on-air saying the reason "all these militaries" are coming together is to "prevent a failed democratic state in the Caribbean". This is all realpolitik to them, that is why they are diverting aid flights, the military is playing buraucratic fiefdom games and saying "this is OUR territory, WE will provide security and THEN WE will permit Doctors Without Borders to enter." You know, like Sudan tells Doctors Without Borders in Darfur, an area where the ongoing danger is the main thing. Pure and absolute unmitigated corruption of our ideals and why we want them to be there.

issue is, why Admin officials on Ed show apologizing for diverting/preempting foriegn aid?

And JUSTIFYING it bysaying this is about "security first, then humanitarian assistance, WE CANNOT ALLOW a failed state in Haiti?" This is Clinton coming on air repating all the failed neoliberal foreign policies he never should have adopted in Haiti and Somalia 15 years ago. We've learned nothing. It's all about securing the country first, protect the relief workers from getting "shot up", protect the Haitian elite, while letting the few foreign aid workers already in-country do the heavy lifting. Colonels even said they would keep 90% of the troops offshore, only 10% would be boots on the ground, the rest are only there in case "something goes wrong".

The gov't of Haiti was a US installed UN protectorate, no one mentions that on TV, why?

And now we are keeping the Brazilians and Bolivians from command and control since their mission was decapitated, why?

We want to prevent Haiti from joining the Bolivian-Brazil-Venezuela-Cuba axis of lefty Latin American trading powers...
or worse, prevent a "failed state" on the "US's doorstep". Which Clinton said was "why all these countries were bringing in military to help" in a "pep talk" with Preval (who we helped install) on the tarmac today.

Where were these military helping plant trees and import fuel (like the evil Venezuelans)

To restore Haiti's rural economy and sustainable land use practices, so they would have somewhere to go outside the city that is not a moonscape?

Too busy providing security and shooting up funerals of Aristide supporters (to be fair, the Brazilians did that.)

[Leopolds Ghost]

1. Keep in mind I believe 99% of the boots we are talking about would rather be on the ground.

But they are not being trained or directed to that end, they are being trained and directed to do military police or logistics. Logistics is vital, that is the only reason I see us needing the military there at all. The US Military does not do what Doctors Without Borders do (although the Navy hospital ship does, that will be important when it arrives.)

[Leopolds Ghost]

2. And...I got my first unrec for being "negative about our nation's efforts."

This is a doctrine some people have called Panglossianism, that we have to assume this is the best of all possible outcomes and proceed from that charitable assumption.

As a liberal I believe in liberal discourse which to me personally means "be charitable about everyone's intentions, assume the best intentions, but be skeptical of results and assume everything can be improved."

[EFerrari]

3. You're right, of course, but most people won't get it for a while.

This is a pattern. And unfortunately, this won't be the last iteration.

[Leopolds Ghost]

5. As someone said, the military is a tool which can be used however we want.

The actual military folks are not paranoid, they do not want to run Haiti, they have no problem doing things a different way as long as the strategy and climate and direction is coming from the top -- imagine if we had had a different leadership in place after WWII, if we had not said, from the top, how to treat the Japanese and Germans, we started out as an army of occupation there but became an army of liberation (instead of the reverse happening elsewhere when we went in with the wrong priorities.) If we had sent American forces in guns drawn with every Japanese and German considered hostile... the reason we didn't is because we weren't paranoid about potential for ongoing violence. Our troops had already been thru hell and they had no problem getting into the communities and fixing things. They weren't paranoid about being shot at, and the leadership from on high said "we know it's a failed state, but there's a society there, every American soldier is a representative of the best we have to offer, build from the ground up."

[Leopolds Ghost]

4. I also recognize that the military will be vital in terms of military doctors & hospital ships.

The navy has excellent doctors and they are already doing their part. This is the sort of thing we should be funding in our country instead of warheads, is hospital corps.

[dipsydoodle]

6. Whilst there is a need to prevent future fraud

that may be better left in the hands of the UN who have no historic ulterior motives.

That however is a future issue. Current issue is keeping Haitians alive and most urgent need now is most probably fresh drinking water and medical aid.

[Leopolds Ghost]

7. So US mil are good at logistics. Are they willign to get out and do distribution?

Rescue anyone who is not a US / foreign national (I can understand them setting aside team for just that purpose, provided other teams exist to make a similar effort for the locals), or just identify living and leave the trapped locals to be picked up by teams from other countries, as happened to the guy buried under the cathedral?

What I am seeing in other threads is that USAID, assisted by private mercs working for the State Dept. is coordinating on the ground relief efforts on our (US) end. Is this true? We don't seem to want the UN handling the operation because Brazil and the Bolivians are in charge. And their forces were decapitated, so we'll just ask them to withdraw instead of double down...

Creating our own little fiefdom instead of part of an international non-military team.

It saddens me that we have come to this point, like a frog in a pot of water.

Next time a Katrina or an earthquake happens on US soil I very much fear that fellow liberals will embrace or even demand militarization of the emergency response effort.

[Leopolds Ghost]

8. Are they willing to get out in community,on a scale of 10 relief people to 100 locals to 1 armed MP?

Are they willing to get out in the community and organize bulldozers, teams, on a scale of 10 relief people to 100 locals to 1 armed MP?

[Leopolds Ghost]

9. Let's say 2 armed MPs in every squad, police style. That's all we need and stop w/ security

Spaced every 2 blocks for "force protection".

[ProgressiveProfessor]

11. They already are

There are multiple distribution centers in place. Apparently the Haitain government want to see the number reduced/consolidated. They are also airdropping from helos as well.

[Hannah Bell]

10. no historic ulterior motives: doubtful.

[dipsydoodle]

12. Got some significant precedents ?

:shrug:

[Hannah Bell]

13. surely you jest. first, consider who the strongest power in the un was for most of its

history & who provided the majority of its funding.

second, consider international court politics.

[dipsydoodle]

15. Maybe I misinterpreted what you'd said

I was trying to convey that at least there is some non US oversight with the UN.

[C_Lawyer09]

14. If you think the UN should be given anything above minor responsibility

in Haiti, go ahead and check out the UN Haiti Mission. What an absolute goat rope. This of course was pre-earthquake, when almost unbelievably, the scene was 20x better than right now. If that UN debacle doesn't work for you, look what happened to Romeo Dallaires fateful mission in Darfur. A massively bureacratic organization, with an entirely vertical and inaccessible chain of command. Canadian General Dallaire was screaming: They're stockpiling weapons for a genocide, give me a mandate to take them, and some more armed troops!" They blew him off and ignored him as Belgian UN troops were getting killed and stacked up like cord wood. By the way, as hard as it is to swallow, it is situations like this that popularize privatization. Why? Because at least some shit will be made to happen. This is after the World Bank and International Monetary Fund, gave the Hutu's and their corrupt govt. millions of dollars under a Structured Adjustment Program, terribly monitored, to buy millions of dollars worth of farm implements, which turned out to be..... You guessed it, thousands of machetes.