22% of Democrats Voted For Brown

[sandnsea]

Because they thought Brown would help move DC policy to the left??

* Among those who decided how they would vote in the past few days, Coakley has a slight edge, 47% to 41%.
* Coakley also has a big advantage among those who made up their mind more than a month ago.
* Seventy-six percent (76%) of voters for Brown said they were voting for him rather than against Coakley.
* Sixty-six percent (66%) of Coakley voters said they were voting for her rather than against Brown.
* 22% of Democrats voted for Brown. That is generally consistent with pre-election polling.


http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0110/An_election_night_poll.html?showall

[Grand Taurean]

1. And I am not forgiving of this.

[steelmania75]

2. Those are the moderates and conservadems

[sandnsea]

3. I don't care if they're poopyheaded fart-faced Dems

That's way too many Dems voting for a nitwit.

[rhett o rick]

7. Ask Rahmbo what's up. Something smells very bad here. nt

[Zoeisright]

27. +100000

You are absolutely right.

Not to mention he thinks rape with a hot curling iron is funny. And voted against helping first responders.

[Grand Taurean]

21. I am a moderate and I do not vote for Republicans.

I am pro-gun and oppose affirmative action.
I am also against raising taxes on middle class business owners.
The high taxes should kick in on people making $750,000+.

[Zoeisright]

29. You oppose affirmative action?

What, do you think we're living in 1810? How stupid.

God, get real.

[Grand Taurean]

58. I do not believe in using

race/gender/etc as a determining factor.

I still vote for Democrats.
I support this President.

[paulflorez]

62. Glad to have you supporting the Dems Grand

I'm a pretty hardcore Dem and I kinda disagree with you Grand but I agree when your complaint with Affirm. Action
I think affirm. action should be a social mandate, not a legal one. You shouldn't be required to have a diverse workforce by law, but society should pressure businesses to have a diverse workforce. Same with universities.

I do think that instead of forcing companies to hire people based on race/gender etc. we should fund programs that help disadvantages minorities become more competitive. I also think that discrimination based on race/gender/etc. should be against the law. It's about making the resources available to bring people up to the bar, not taking the bar down to people.

I wouldn't call myself pro-gun rights but I do think people should be free to own a gun and keep it in their own home to protect themselves and their families. I think gun owners should be screened though, people with mental illness should not own guns. I do not think people should be allowed to carry loaded guns in public, we have the police for that. I'm glad that Obama hasn't made a big deal about guns, and even let gun rights increase over the past year as a compromise for credit card reforms, I don't think guns are our biggest worry right now.

My biggest complaint with Republicans is their war against LGBT citizens and same-sex couples. As long as they continue to hammer away at that, I cannot support them. Whenever a Republican speaks out against this war, I give them a chance. The mayor of my city is a Republican, and he has spoken out in favor of ssm because a member of his family is gay. He is even testifying against Prop 8 in the recent federal case. He is a Republican I like.

I don't like the idea of national Republicans that we need to deregulate everything because government is too big. That is anarcho-capitalism, a form of anarchy, and that will destroy this country. I'm surprised I never hear people talk about that.

[Grand Taurean]

65. Welcome to DU.

I agree about funding programs/education to assist minorities.
That would be proactive.

[newspeak]

80. right, but it's okay to have affirmative action when your privileged

How do you think * got to Yale-over others who were far more qualified. Or how do you think * stayed out of Vietnam-he was down on the list for those qualifying for the National Guard. I took African American studies in college--I know about the tests (civil service)-where a lower graded white guy would get the job over a higher graded person of color. I know about the discriminatory voting tests--how people of color were set up to fail.
I also know what happened when someone of color got a decent job over a white man, some were lynched.

You're against affirmative action-bullshite. I remember my female friend who worked in an architect's office doing the same job as the man working there who had not been there long--he was paid way more than her doing the same damn job. And even when I was employed back in the seventies for the government, a newly hired man was hired and quickly promoted up the ladder from mail clerk to claims rep. While women who had worked for years, were being promoted slowly taking years.

There is a very good reason for affirmative action--like part of the public is going to dictate policy by outrage-never gonna happen. Walmart has had numerous labor violations and discrimination suits, especially from women who appear not to be able to get promotions over their male counterparts. How is that working? See the droves of people not shopping at Walmart?

Also, I am for small businesses over big corporations. I love how the repukes sell how they're going to cut taxes for small businesses--but it's usually a pittance, so that they can really give big tax giveaways to corporations who are putting small ma and pa businesses out of business.

Just love it. Why don't you just register as a repuke and be honest. I doubt you're pro-labor (especially union) or pro-choice or pro-small business. And, I love medicare and social security and love when the military doesn't have to be contaminated by privatization so some war profiteer can make a buck on our soldiers while killing them with shoddy work or giving them contaminated water. How about you?

[cliffordu]

37. Move along, nothing to see here, stranger.

Go in peace.

[FLAprogressive]

76. do you really think that 22% of MA Dems consist of moderates and conservatives

[treestar]

4. I'd love to know what they were thinking

Are they progressives trying to kill HCR and punish the Dems for their corporatism?

I'd love to see them explain how Brown is going to stand up to Wall Street, the corporations, and the insurance companies.

Surely Brown will filibuster the HCR bill because he doesn't want this boon to the insurance companies? :sarcasm:

[Chulanowa]

9. "it sends a message!"

I've been noticing that a number of my party's members are way more interested in "sending messages" and "making gestures" than they are with getting results. I think it's a consequence of toothless protest methods.

[WeDidIt]

77. Sends it loud and clear, too

MOVE TO THE RIGHT, YOU'RE TOO FAR TO THE LEFT!!!

that's EXACTLY the message sent.

[sandnsea]

14. I don't think so

I really don't think most of the threateners are really that stupid, and I don't think there are enough of them to make up 22% of Dems anyway. If this figure is anywhere near true, then I'd guess we're back to having a credibility problem.

[newspeak]

83. You right sandnsea

I think a progressive would have stayed home---THESE ARE REAGAN DEMS-not progressives. A progressive wouldn't stand for another * clone in the senate. They would have stayed home instead of voting for Brown.

[Tailormyst]

36. The ones I know were thinking

The health insurance bill is going to make my premiums go up (one quoted some wall street journal fear mongering)to where I can't afford them anymore. From where I am sitting, had she not switched her position on health insurance she would have won. But she did AND she chose not to campaign.

[JoeyT]

45. The short answer is "They weren't."

I'd bet virtually none of 'em were progressives/liberals. Progressives/liberals, if they were that pissed off would've just stayed home, not actively voted for a Republican.

More likely these were the Republicans that bailed on the GOP when they went (more) insane. They'll still vote Republican whenever they can get away with it, though. They aren't centrists, they're die-hard conservatives.

[RedCappedBandit]

5. w.t.f.

[inna]

6. mind blowing. And the guy is not even a moderate, he's a Cheney Jr.

:crazy:

I wonder what the gender distribution among those 22% is.

[otohara]

8. Voting Against Their Interests

no longer just a right-wing thing.

BOO on those MA Dems who did this.

[jgraz]

11. I doubt they saw it that way.

And whose fault is that?

[treestar]

19. their own

they aren't helpless.

the voters should not sit there claiming helplessness

And take responsibility for what they did.

[jgraz]

28. So your plan to educate every voter in the country is...?

:shrug:

[treestar]

42. Should they not educate themselves?

the fallacy is expecting that person A is responsible for the choice of person B

Not so. Person B voted for Brown and must live with that and take responsibility for it.

[jgraz]

48. So... your plan is to do nothing

Wow, that's gonna win a lot of elections. :eyes:

How about this: we get some leaders who actually represent the people? Then maybe voters will turn out for them.

[treestar]

52. how about people take some responsibility for themselves?

And we give them that respect?

they aren't just clay to be molded by clever party operators.

That's not doing nothing. You are thinking like a republican. You can mold and shape other people and take responsibility for what they do.

[jgraz]

56. And the idea of Democrats actually leading is beyond your comprehension?

It has nothing to do with party operators. It has to do with Democrats delivering on their promises -- starting with the guy in the White House.

If the Democrats wanted to, they could keep the Repukes out of power for the next 20 years. But they don't seem to want to.

[newspeak]

81. yeah, but if you were a progressive democrat

you would have stayed home. I can't believe a democrat would vote for a teabagging, sexist, arrogant idjiot--they would know that after eight fekkin long years of idiots, lies and greed--that it ain't going to happen again. No, it'd be blue dogs that voted for Brown, not a progressive.

I'm a progressive and there is no way in hell I'd vote for the man.

[otohara]

85. Nonetheless, They Are Voting Against Their Interests

we couldn't understand why poor, uninsured GOP'ers kept voting for a party who screws them at every chance they get. Now we have dem voters doing the same thing and screwing the rest of us. Scott Brown gets government health insurance, MA residents have health care - but thanks to 22% of MA Democratic voters, the HCR bill is DOA. Yes it was a shitty bill, unless you have a pre-existing condition, but I always figured it would get better and more would be added down the road. Like they did with Medicare.

[Alias Dictus Tyrant]

68. +1 n/t

[wisteria]

47. Yeah, because you would do this to kill the bill, well now we may have none at all for a very long

time- nice going. And, you and anyone else who did this did screw yourselves.

[jgraz]

53. Um... you may note that I don't live in MA.

But the Health Insurance Bailout Bill wasn't going to help anyone. If the Democrats want to use this loss as an excuse not to pass real HCR, that's their problem. I hope they like losing elections. (I actually thing there's a chance they do.)

[paulflorez]

64. What about good things in bill?

You don't think the insurance exchange in the bill was a good thing?
What about the mandates for health organizations to handle everything electronically and instantaneously, from medical records to insurance claims/payments?
I wanted a public option too, but I find it hard to believe this bill was worthless.
Why are health care stocks skyrocketing after a Brown win? If HCR was a insurance company bail-out, wouldn't HI stocks plummet?

[ProgressOnTheMove]

10. Apparently he made big promises to unions and said he was independent a lot of people were scammmed.

[newspeak]

84. Wait, he made promises to the union?

A repuke--starting with Reagan, breaking down unions--made promises to the union? :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: Are people so ignorant that they don't know the history of killing the unions, and who actually started the down fall of unions and the big deregulation shift?

[WilliamPitt]

12. Show me the numbers

from a different source.

[sandnsea]

15. Hey, I'm on your side buddy

I'm just putting this up there because I don't think that large of a number means there's any real fingers to point -- just a lot of unhappy people for whatever reason.

[Capn Sunshine]

18. none of this matters

MSM is already prepared to say it sends a message to Obama to "move to the center"

All they needed was a scenario, and they got one.
I'm wondering who ran a worse race: Coakley this month or Kerry in '04.

[sandnsea]

30. Something else those two races had in common

A far left that concocted campaign attacks out of thin air and was as big an obstacle to overcome as the Republican opponent.

[sabrina 1]

41. That many democrats voting against a Democrat

is NOT saying to Obama 'move to the center', they are saying 'move to a more progressive agenda'. Better the message was sent in this special election than in the general election. They have time now to start representing the people who put them in office. Starting with, demoting or firing the DLC crowd the WH is being run by. If they don't get the message, then this will be repeated in Nov and Rahm and his crew will be responsible for a Republican majority.

They were warned, over and over again and chose to yell at the wrong people. I'm not sure they will learn anything, but when only 34% of the voters in Mass supported the Health Care legislation, that includes a lot of Democrats.

This health care bill has been political suicide. If Brown does manage to hold it up, he'll be doing them a favor.

But if they now use reconciliation to get it throught, that will anger Democrats who wanted them to do that in the first place to pass a real healthcare reform bill. They said it wasn't possible. Many came to believe they didn't want to. Pushing it through now without those all-important 60 votes will make liars out of them, unless they include a PO.

[wisteria]

49. Hey sunshine- Kerry ran a good campaign. n/t

[lynne]

13. The question should be "WHY" did 22% of Democrats vote for Brown -

- someone needs to take a sampling of these voters, find out why they defected and if there is a common denominator that motivated them. Only then will we truly know what we can do to prevent this from occurring again.

[sandnsea]

16. I hope so too n/t

[treestar]

22. Now there's a thought

We on DU would rather speculate endlessly!

:yourock:

[Tailormyst]

17. I have 2 friends and 2 relatives who are Dems and did this

They never voted R before- Came down to the fucked up health insurance bill and a general anger at the party in general, both here and in DC. These are not conservatives by any stretch of the imagination. It's shocking. I haven't really spoken to any of them yet, feeling to angry and betrayed that they would vote for him.

[Lilyeye]

23. Wow. Why not just sit out instead of voting for Brown? That's horrible!

[Tailormyst]

34. I felt the same way

I could almost accept if they had stayed home. but to have them actually vote for him. :puke:

[newspeak]

86. what kind of stupid is that?

Why in the world would you vote for another * or Cheney clone? We've been more than abused for eight fekkin years--couldn't they have just stayed home? God, I wouldn't want that on my conscience--and Ted Kennedy's seat no less.

[Grand Taurean]

32. They are going to have a well earned hangover soon.

[wisteria]

50. He sold people a false bill of goods, and the Health care plan has not been framed properly by our

Dems. They allowed the Repubs to frame it.

[paulflorez]

69. Totally agree, Dems did not frame HC debate, they let TPers/Repubs frame it

I went to the townhalls and there were 1/2 as many pro-healthcare reform as anti-reform. Where were my fellow progressives/liberals?
Did leadership fail to round up and energize the base to go to the townhalls, or did we just sit on our asses and assume it would be a cakewalk?
There was no anger/strength from our side. The biggest united effort I saw from our side was the Equality March in D.C. I saw more liberal/progressive anger at the post-Prop 8 marches than I did at any of the town halls.

[newspeak]

88. tell me they're not women

Women voting against their interests--voting for Mr. sexist bohunk?

[Lilyeye]

20. This is sickening.

[Name removed]

24. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[maglatinavi]

39. dems in 2000

didn't vote for Bush knowingly, they were confused with the frigging voting forms... the Supreme Court gave the elections to Bush ...
but in this case the dems were sour with Obama as many of us are...
:shrug: :shrug: :shrug: :kick: :kick:

[Luminous Animal]

72. 10-11 millions Dems nationwide voted for Bush

300,000 in Florida.

Only in Palm Beach, FL was there an issue with the butterfly ballot.

[Cha]

57. Bullshit.

[Ardent15]

25. Fuck. Those. Assholes. n/t

[G_j]

26. That is generally consistent with pre-election polling.

quoted from the article

[upi402]

31. I'll NEVER vote for a Republican, in EITHER party n/t

[hfojvt]

33. that may not be all that unusual

in 1976 22% of Democrats voted for Ford, and in 1980 26% of Democrats voted for Reagan. In 2008, though, only 10% of Democrats voted for McCain, and probably a bunch of that 10% were in Arkansas and still stinging about the primary loss of their 'native' daughter.

[Kablooie]

35. Means that the Republicans are self serving horrors and the Democrats are worse.

[Smashcut]

38. Please see here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=7515106&mesg_id=7515106

[sandnsea]

46. Oh. People are stupid?

Because that's all that OP says to me. People are too stupid to understand the bankers had the economy at the brink of collapse; not depression, collapse; and there was no choice but to bail them out. They're too stupid to remember unemployment has been extended several times and had over $1,000 a year added to it, or all the other programs implemented. They're too stupid to calculate the difference between 520,000 jobs lost in Dec 2008 and 88,000 jobs lost in Dec 2009.

Brown voters were angry that the banks were bailed out, but also angry at a tax to get back the remainder of the money, despite most of the money already being collected and the economy stabilizing.

They're angry that there's still foreclosures, but also blame the crisis on those same people who took the loans.

They're angry at deficit spending on health care, but not on war.

I mean get real, these are the same lunatics we've been fighting all over the country.

There's only one way to beat them, a unified message.

[Smashcut]

59. Newsflash: people often vote against their interests.

That's not what the linked post was about. It was about the fact that protest votes do happen, and inasmuch as people did vote on the basis of Democratic performance as a whole, they were voting in protest of the undelivered promise to make fundamental and palpable changes.

"bankers had the economy at the brink of collapse"

And where are those bankers now? In prison for fraud? No, they're paying themselves record bonuses.

"They're too stupid to calculate the difference between 520,000 jobs lost in Dec 2008 and 88,000 jobs lost in Dec 2009."

Tell someone who doesn't have a job and hasn't had one for a while to feel better because we're losing fewer jobs than we were and see how far you get. Fact is, the unemployment rate is still exceptionally high. What people can clearly see is that the rich are still making out like bandits while everyone else is still being asked to settle for lower and lower expectations. Meanwhile we spend billions more on wars and corporate bailouts.

And on and on.

It's ludicrous that Brown should have won that seat and there's plenty of evidence that the Democratic leadership and Coakley herself completely screwed the pooch in the campaign. But this election WAS billed to voters as a referendum on the party in power, i.e., us, and the most convincing explanation for the outcome is that people are pissed about the disparity between what was promised and what was delivered. This was about mismanagement of expectations.

[wisteria]

54. Change takes time, why do we think things must happen right away.

I am unemployed-have been for nearly a year, but I would be damned first rather than vote for someone like Brown.

[Smashcut]

60. This reflects the failure to distinguish between RESULTS and DIRECTION.

[donheld]

40. Thank the "Liberal Media"

[wisteria]

43. 22%, and they call themselves Democrats- these votes could have put Coakley over the top.

I am appauled at each and everyone of them. They have voted against their best intersts. And, I thought only Repubs did that.

This makes me sick.

[wisteria]

44. Like Repubs-voting against their own best interests. n/t

[Luminous Animal]

51. Just like Dems who voted for Bush could have put Gore over the top.

Quit blaming someone else and look at problems within the party.

[wisteria]

55. They had other avenues of complaint-they did not have to do this.

I do blame them for not considering anyone but themselves. Their votes screws a lot of other Americans and stalls any progress Obama has made. So , I will piss on other Dems who vote like this to "send a message".

[Luminous Animal]

61. What avenues would that be? We only have two politicaal parties.

And we've been trained to believe that electoral politics is where we can express our discontent. Thus, if we feel our own party has abandoned us, what is the alternative?

Point of information... I'd rather go blind than vote for a Republican.

[wisteria]

90. Problems shoulld be handled before it comes to a vote.

Form groups of opposition, take your concerns to your legislatures. You have a right to be heard. But, if you don't tell them their is a problem, they may not know there is one.

[newspeak]

87. well, if they were so unhappy and stayed home

it would be a vote less for Brown. How could anyone think of voting for Brown? God, you can't be a progressive voting for the party of destruction, AGAIN!!! Do they have battered wife syndrome or what? Why would you vote for any part of the nightmare again?

[grahamhgreen]

63. Because they know the health care bill IS A SCAM AND A RIP-OFF, WTF!

Not to mention the bailout for billionairre banksters...

[Blue-Jay]

66. So vote for a Republican?

Let's boil some bunnies.

Let's sew our assholes shut because we don't like the smell of shit.

[Political Heretic]

71. Yeah that wouldn't be my choice either.

My choice of action in respond to my outrage and democrats behaving pathetically on wall street and health care is NOT to go out and vote for a homophobic racist sexist ex nude model.

[grahamhgreen]

78. I'm afraid what we're seeing is the beginning of a right wing revolution

People were looking for Obama to come in and redistribute the wealth to the middle class . Instead the dems are seen as redistributing to the wealthy. The tea baggers are taking over the populist message and are about to have a right wing revolution based on the bizzarre twisted spin that Obamas neo-con pro-wealthy pro-corporatist policies are actually socialism.

The reason dems voted republican is actually a vote against obamas corporatist militarist agenda

[fishwax]

67. I wonder what percent voted for Romney in 2002

Brown's margin of victory was very close to Romney's (109,500 to 106,000), though it looks like turnout here was a little bit higher ...

[sandnsea]

73. Now where is TruthIsAll

When you need him. That's data I'd like to see.

[juajen]

75. WOW, it would be great to see TIA again. Those were the days. NT

[Political Heretic]

70. He promised lots to labor, sold himself as an independent and lots of people bought it.

:shrug:

[Nikki Stone1]

74. It's called "Don't recruit votes where you shit."

Because some people actually react to being shit on.

[donco6]

79. To the Right it is, then!

Yippee!

[samsingh]

82. they are idiots then.

[Octafish]

89. For SHAME!

Shame on the voters. And shame on the Party and its leaders for not giving Democrats reasons to vote for Democrats.

Shame!