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izzybeans Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-21-10 12:00 PM
Original message
This type of misinformation does our movement a disservice .
Edited on Thu Jan-21-10 12:03 PM by izzybeans
http://unsilentgeneration.com/2010/01/20/obama-cuts-deal-that-will-reduce-social-securitymedicare-and-all-entitlements/

Everyday I see something posted here like this and everyday very few of us get past the dishonest headline to the crux of the lie and/or unintentionally misleading soundbite. Headline readers may want to stop here and just post their gut reaction first then proceed to the rest of my post. Or if you haven't made it this far yet then, here is a preemptive :rofl:

Look of the title of this blog post (recently linked to in GD): "Obama Cuts Deal To Reduce Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid". Now look at the "evidence" used to support the title (from WaPo):

-snips- (because the blogger's use of WaPo violates our copyright policy)

" Under the agreement, President Obama would issue an executive order to create an 18-member panel that would be granted broad authority to propose changes in the tax code and in the massive federal entitlement programs — including Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security — that threaten to drive the nation’s debt to levels not seen since World War II.

The accord comes a week before Obama is scheduled to deliver his first State of the Union address to a nation increasingly concerned about his stewardship of the economy and the federal budget. After a year in which he advocated spending hundreds of billions of dollars on a huge economic stimulus package and a far-reaching overhaul of the health-care system, Obama has pledged to redouble his effort to rein in record budget deficits even as he has come under withering Republican attack.

The commission would deliver its recommendations after this fall’s congressional elections, postponing potentially painful decisions about the nation’s fiscal future until after Democrats face the voters. But if the commission approves a deficit-reduction plan, Congress would have to act on it quickly under the agreement, forged late Tuesday in a meeting with Vice President Biden, White House budget director Peter R. Orszag, and Democratic lawmakers led by Senate Majority Leader Harry M. Reid (Nev.), House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) and House Majority Leader Steny H. Hoyer (Md.).

The commission is likely to form the centerpiece of Democrats’ efforts to reduce projected budget deficits, which have soared into record territory in the aftermath of the worst recession in a generation. Government spending to bail out the troubled financial sector and to stimulate economic activity have combined with sagging tax collections to push last year’s budget deficit to a record $1.4 trillion. The budget gap is projected to be just as large this year and to hover close to $1 trillion a year for much of the next decade."

- end snips

What here supports such a title? Is this deliberately misleading or just reactionary drivel? By reactionary drivel I mean: an irrational or visceral response that leads one to illogical conclusions. Nowhere does it say what the title leads one to believe...unless the blogger has some sort of mythical psychic power to see the future, that is.

There are legitimate beefs with this administration (health care, war, jobs, weak stimulus, failure to prosecute war crimes, etc.). But inventing imaginary injustices that have yet to occur and probably will not occur distracts from real problems (especially the real problems of funding our entitlement programs after Bush and the Republicans deliberately wrecked the treasury).

Let's take the example of a person who calls their Senator about this issue. They call and say "hey you better stop Obama from cutting our Social Security and Medicare benefits....Right fa#$#ing now!!!" Well how is this different from the caller who called in a month ago worried Obama was gonna off Granny in one of his socialist death panels? "Hey you better stop Obama from offing Granny in one of his socialist death panels ....Right fa#$#ing now!!!" Both equally imaginary, though I suppose Obama cutting SS and Medicare/caid benefits may in some universe seem logical. This is partially one of the fears Scott Brown propagandized his way to a win with. "I'll protect your Medicare benefits from that dastardly Obama." Somewhere in this process we become like our opponents. Not doing our homework, falling for scary soundbites, and running around with no direction or purpose.

Sure, we need to keep an eye on this commission and we better pressure our congress critters to do the right thing regarding entitlements (e.g. eliminate the cap, ensuring retirement security, expanding medicare, etc.), but falling for this type of shit makes us all look bad.

Do us all a favor and read past the headlines for a change.

Oh and P.S.: once past those headlines look to see if the text and the claim made by the author meet somewhere near the intersection of honest and factual. I hope that I am not far off. But I'm sure someone will be along to correct me. The biggest spot for potential critique would be "but you are conflating two different things". My preemptive response is: "no I am not. I am aligning two imaginary beliefs, both based on disinformation." One may be deliberate and the other unintentional, but neither are forgivable.

P.S.S. I'd post this in the original thread, but no one would read it. The reason for its own thread is that I feel I could post a thread like this daily on other topics with similarly misleading titles and a similar unblinking reaction by many, so...take my choice of topics today as "here is just one example". Tomorrow there will be another exemplar.

I am not sure if there is an active campaign to confuse progressives on right/left/up/down issues or if there are a bunch of blogging reactionaries with irrational fears unintentionally misleading people. Either way the function is the same. Confusion and misdirected anger. We have valid reasons to be angry. Let us focus on those.
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barbtries Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-21-10 12:11 PM
Response to Original message
1. great post
thank you.
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louis-t Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-21-10 12:12 PM
Response to Original message
2. I always wonder what the reaction is when
viral emails that demand everyone sign and pass along ("I better not hear about someone NOT passing this email on")get to the WH and it is about some imaginary evil being perpetrated on the poor, unsuspecting American citizens.
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cry baby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-21-10 12:13 PM
Response to Original message
3. common sense approach - thank you! knr
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Patsy Stone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-21-10 12:14 PM
Response to Original message
4. I thought reducing the waste was part of the process from the beginning.
How come it's a such a surprise and betrayal now that it's happening?
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Enrique Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-21-10 12:21 PM
Response to Original message
5. cutting entitlements is exactly what that commission is for
you can wait around until it happens, but I'm glad that activists are on it now (actually have been on it for a while).
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SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-21-10 12:24 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. Yep, exactly!
:thumbsup:
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Joe Fields Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-21-10 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #5
12. exactly! Especially since defense makes up 40 percent of the budget.
They can start there, and leave the entitlements alone.
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leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-21-10 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #5
19. +1
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Junkdrawer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-21-10 12:25 PM
Response to Original message
7. "The commission would deliver its recommendations after this fall’s congressional elections"....
So we vote and THEN we find out what the commission recommends?

Yeah, can't see why we're suspicious.... :eyes:
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arthritisR_US Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-21-10 12:42 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. exactly, if there is nothing to fear from them then why not release their findings
and recommendations in September?
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Johonny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-21-10 12:34 PM
Response to Original message
8. The Bush years have left the left paranoid
or don't you read the DU :)

It's not as if the rather less bold than progressives expected agenda of Obama has helped to shake this. With the down society of the post Bush years that will take years to recover from, the new "paranoid sells" culture and hate TV is it any shock bloggers expect the worst and post fear with any basis? Not really. It does get boring after a while though. The fear culture created in the Bush years is alive and well on both the left and right. No doubt on that from me.
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Enrique Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-21-10 01:03 PM
Response to Reply #8
13. without any basis?
did you read the whole article? There's basis. I think your claim of no basis is without basis.
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izzybeans Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-21-10 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #8
14. totally agree.
That's why you see comments like those above that say things like "that's exactly what this commission is for" without anything specific that can prove that assertion. I understand the distrust and obama's withering on certain issue hasn't helped with that, for sure.

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Capn Sunshine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-21-10 12:37 PM
Response to Original message
9. you'd think if they want to feel defeat
they'd be pissed about the Supreme Court decision. Because THAT really sucks.
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izzybeans Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-21-10 02:11 PM
Response to Reply #9
15. Yep.
Edited on Thu Jan-21-10 02:14 PM by izzybeans
The only way out is legislatively, and I don't hold much hope in that, not without strong leadership on this issue. I don't see that coming from anywhere at the moment. If anyone taking on corporate personhood in congress got a seat at the table I'd be impressed.

On edit: just saw this posted elsehwere in GD. Sounds promising. Hopefully it goes beyond words. http://tpmlivewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/01/obama-supreme-court-ruling-a-major-victory-for-big-oil-wall-street-banks-health-insurance-companies.php
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Enrique Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-21-10 03:02 PM
Response to Reply #9
24. why not both?
oh, yeah, because being pissed about the S.C. doesn't imply a criticism of Obama. That's what this is about, it's about defending Obama. Deny the threat to Social Security because you are a fan of a certain politician, that's real smart.

Well I'm concerned about this SS Commission, I'm pissed at the SCOTUS decision, and I'm very happy about Obama's statement on it. How about that, I can think for myself, I own my own thoughts, my brain isn't a slave to liking or hating a particular politician.
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zipplewrath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-21-10 12:38 PM
Response to Original message
10. "Taken to its logical conclusion"
This type of declaration or headline is based upon the concept of "...if taken to its logical conclusion". In the stated example, it's pretty hard to make any significant reductions in our future debts as influenced by these programs if one doesn't actually cut the benefits that those programs provide. Furthermore, these types of commissions are created specifically to make politically unpopular changes and cuts, and in a format much as is being lain out here. They will be presented and voted upon as relatively unalterable packages.

Now, one can argue about whether the headline actually represents the "logical conclusion". And it is my problem with this type of advocacy technique. It is presented more as an underlying assumption, instead of a stated "logical conclusion" which can then be debated or evaluated. This type of argument is one favored by most of the commentator/entertainers on TV and radio these days. "McCain votes to limit free speech" instead of "McCain votes for his own campaign finance reform bill".

As for the specific example, you can complain about the technique, and I understand the observation, but in reality this is the exact reason the commission is being formed. It is effectively the same as the Base Closure Committee, if your town has been on the receiving end of one of their actions, a commission like this with authority over Medicare and SS should scare the heck out of you.
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Hello_Kitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-21-10 02:14 PM
Response to Original message
16. Google 'Pete Peterson' and get back to us. eom
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izzybeans Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-21-10 02:26 PM
Response to Reply #16
20. Ok done. now what?
I see he spoke at a summit. And is a douchebag. If he winds up on this commission I'll check back with ya. How 'bout that?
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Hello_Kitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-21-10 02:30 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. The commission is his idea. eom
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izzybeans Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-21-10 03:45 PM
Response to Reply #21
27. I see he proposed a commission. one that seems to exist in some think tanky world.
Edited on Thu Jan-21-10 03:53 PM by izzybeans
if he happens to be on this commission that the president sets up then we can start with the pitchforks. Deal? I'm right with you on this guy.

btw: I think Peterson's commission sounds like what Conrad and Gregg want, through Congress, with actual legislative powers. Obama's commission seems to me heads off those two at the pass, which will have no ability to legislate. Only recommend.

The troubling bit (and I don't know the structure of the proposed Judd Gregg commission) is that roughly 1/3 of it will be made up of Republicans. Another fuzzy and misguided attempt at bipartisanship, imo.

This is pretty much the take away from the article.
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UTUSN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-21-10 02:19 PM
Response to Original message
17. K&R #10 for what I said in a different way and got called COMBATIVE &UnReKKKed about!1 n/t
Edited on Thu Jan-21-10 02:19 PM by UTUSN
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johnaries Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-21-10 02:22 PM
Response to Original message
18. Excellent post! This type of uninformed kneejerk reaction
has been happening way too often on DU lately. That's a typical RW trait, and I thought Liberals and Progressives like the ones here on DU were above that kind of thing. But I see now that not all of us are.
:kick: and Rec!
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Enrique Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-21-10 02:56 PM
Response to Reply #18
22. read the whole article
it's only knee-jerk if you read what the OP posted and ignore the rest of it. The OP left out the part which gives very good reasons for its conclusions.

If you call it knee jerk and you didn't read the whole thing, that's pretty knee-jerky of you.
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izzybeans Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-21-10 03:41 PM
Response to Reply #22
26. I did nothing of the sort.
Edited on Thu Jan-21-10 03:50 PM by izzybeans
There is nothing in that article that justifies such hysterics. nothing.

In fact it looks like setting up this commission through the administration is less troublesome than if it were done by an act of Congress (something Conrad and Gregg want to happen).

If you read the WaPo article that is...
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Enrique Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-21-10 05:02 PM
Response to Reply #26
28. do you know the scandal involving the Washington Post on this issue?
Hint: it's mentioned in the article your OP links to.

I'm assuming you didn't read it because if you had I doubt you'd be now saying, "duh, the Washington Post thinks this commission thing is ok so we can all relax."
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johnaries Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-22-10 03:34 AM
Response to Reply #22
29. Actually, I've read many articles on the commission and heard
interviews with both sponsors on NPR morning news. So I am quite familiar with the issue and have read many knee-jerk reactions here, similar to some of the knee-jerk reactions to the Senate HCR bill simply because it contained a mandate and no PO. BTW, RW hate the idea of this commission because they are afraid it will raise taxes - such as raising or eliminating the cap on SS taxes.

I have lately seen a lot of disinformation being spread here on DU and have to wonder where it is coming from. I would prefer to think it is simply kneejerk reactions rather than the alternative.
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Orsino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-21-10 03:01 PM
Response to Original message
23. Right-wing phantoms.
WaPo is making shit up again. It must be Thursday--or some other day.
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-21-10 03:05 PM
Response to Original message
25. Kick and recommend
An obvious exaggeration intended to inflame is what that is.

Legal cases are another. Looking into the cases, one generally find there is nothing to support the rabid conclusions reached by those posting on it.
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