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How many more senators do we have to lose to health care "reform"?

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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-22-10 07:32 AM
Original message
How many more senators do we have to lose to health care "reform"?
http://www.pnhp.org/news/2010/january/a-wake-up-call

The measure is so unpopular that Republican State Senator Scott Brown has built his entire surge against Coakley around his promise to be the 41st senator to block the bill -- this in Ted Kennedy's Massachusetts. He must be pretty confident that the bill has become politically radioactive, and he's right.

It has already brought down Senator Byron Dorgan of North Dakota, a fighter for health care and other reforms far more progressive than President Obama's. Dorgan championed Americans' right to re-import cheaper prescription drugs from Canada, a popular provision that the White House blocked. Dorgan, who is one of the Senate's great populists, began the year more than twenty points ahead in the polls of his most likely challenger, North Dakota Governor John Hoeven. By the time he decided to call it a day, Dorgan was running more than twenty points behind. The difference was the health bill, which North Dakotans oppose by nearly two to one. The fact that Dorgan's own views were much better than the Administration's cut little ice. He was fatally associated with an unpopular bill.
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DCBob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-22-10 07:40 AM
Response to Original message
1. HCR is becoming the new "third rail"..
Thanks to the bashing by right-wing media and conservative pundits and the inability of the Dems to explain the benefits and advantages.
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-22-10 07:44 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. There are no benefits worth being forced to buy crappy underinsurance
As long as Obama wants to scale back, why not bag the whole thing and have a bill to expand Medicare and Medicaid? We know they work, and there is no need to wait until 2013 to just add some more people.
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DCBob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-22-10 07:49 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. Dont have the votes...
now that HCR is the new "third rail".
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-22-10 07:55 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. We don't have the votes to expand a program that is so popular that even elderly teabaggers
--are screaming "Keep the government out of my Medicare?"
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DCBob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-22-10 08:02 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. Yes, because the right-wing is so good at demonizing everything the Dems and Obama try to do..
The simple minded/un-informed are easily manipulated by the words "socialism", "big government", "more taxes", "bankrupt the country", etc, especially when they see and hear it 7x24x365.
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-22-10 11:26 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. That is nonsense. If the socialism scare had actually worked, why has public support
--for the public option remained at 70-80%?

Health Care Polling as of January 2010

http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2010/01/12/cbs-poll-for-many-health-care-reform-does-not-go-far-enough/

A new CBS News poll finds that a significant plurality of Americans do not feel reform has gone far enough. It also shows that overall support for Obama’s handling of health care reform has dropped to an all-time low of just 36%.

The most interesting questions in the poll were about whether people think reform went far enough or went too far: When asked about trying to “provide health insurance to as many Americans as possible,” 32% said that the plan goes too far, 35% said it doesn’t go far enough, and 22% said it is about right.

Asked about trying to “control costs,” 24% said that reform proposals go too far, 39% said it doesn’t go far enough, and 21% said it is about right.

And, when asked about “trying to regulate the health insurance industry,” the breakdown was 27% in the go too far camp, 43% saying the plan doesn’t go far enough, and 18% thinking it was about right.

Interesting, to me, is the segment of people that thought efforts to expand coverage are just about right. I find this perplexing. I can understand that some people who are opposed reform and spending in general would think the bill went too far, but I find it hard to believe anyone would think this bill did the right amount to expand coverage. Unlike cost control or regulation, the number of uninsured covered is very quantifiable. If you believe in universal coverage, a bill that only reduces the number of uninsured by roughly 60% clearly, by definition, does not go far enough. I find it hard to believe there is a large number of Americans who only want significantly expanded coverage, but not universal coverage for all Americans. I think it does show how effective the Democrats’ efforts to falsely depict the bill as “universal coverage” have been. The fact that some 25 million people in this country would still be without health insurance is probably not well known by the majority of Americans.

What I think is truly fascinating is how many people believe this health care reform legislation will not do enough to regulate the health insurance industry. Promising that reform would “keep the insurance industry honest” and end their bad practices has been one of the biggest Democratic selling points for reform. Even 26% of self-identified Republicans think reform does not go far enough in trying to regulate the insurance companies. That is shocking given the GOP’s long history of pushing for deregulation. Over a quarter of Republicans think a partisan Democratic bill meant to regulate an industry does not impose enough regulation.

The poll indicates that a large portion of Americans feel this bill has been way too friendly to the insurance companies. Insurance companies are not popular, and they are probably one of only a few industries people are actually clamoring to see face much tougher regulation. It seems substantially increasing the checks on the insurance industry would be the best way to improve the popularity of health care reform. Democrats are already viewed as taking the side of the bankers in the bailout; they don’t want to go into the 2010 election also being seen as being too friendly to the health insurance industry.


http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/01/14/health.care.poll/

As House and Senate Democrats try to merge two separate health care reform bills, a new national poll suggests that when it comes to paying for the legislation, Americans favor provisions in the House bill over those in the Senate version.

According to the poll,61 percent of the public favor the House provision, which taxes people with high incomes regardless of the kind of health insurance they have. Twenty-nine percent favor the Senate provision, which raises taxes on high-quality health insurance plans, regardless of the amount of money made by the people covered by those plans.

"A tax on the wealthy is obviously most popular with lower-income Americans, but it is also the preference of people making $100,000 a year or more," says CNN Polling Director Keating Holland. "Fifty percent of people in that income level prefer a tax on higher-income Americans to a tax on high-quality health care plans. Thirty-six percent of them prefer the tax on insurance plans rather than the income-based tax."

The CNN/Opinion Research Corporation poll was conducted January 8-10, with 1,021 adult Americans questioned by telephone. The survey's overall sampling error is plus or minus 3 percentage points.



http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2010/01/15/republicans-dont-need-to-run-on-repealing-the-whole-bill

Republicans will probably run on repealing just the deeply unpopular provisions, like the individual mandate and the tax on health insurance benefits. We know those are winning messages because Obama campaigned on them in 2008.

The GOP might call the bill a bundle of corrupt promises masquerading as reform. They can point to the sweetheart deal for drug companies, the huge subsidies given to the private insurance companies, the deal cut with the hospitals, and the special carve-out for unions. Republicans will also be able to make a big deal about the lack of promised transparency and the many other broken promises from Obama about health care.

I can even picture Republicans attacking Democrats for passing a bill that lacks “Republican solutions” like tort reform and drug re-importation. Yes Republicans can now steal the mantle of being the party that supports drug re-importation because Obama killed it on the Senate floor. Some clever Republicans in bluer districts might even run a campaign on “fixing” the bill by removing all of the Democrats’ sweetheart deals and corporate giveaways.

The only defense for a deeply compromised bill is to have it in effect so people can judge for themselves if the benefits outweigh the negatives. The problem is, the bill does not really help anyone for four years. Democrats will have almost no immediate tangible positives to point to as a justification for their votes.

Between now and 2014, Republicans will point to every big premium increase, every higher co-pay, and every spike in drug prices as proof that “Democrats failed on health care.” Fair or not, the Republicans might start placing the blame for every new problem with our health care system at the feet of Democrats.

Democrats allowed a handful of powerful special interests and conservative Democrats to kill all the most popular elements in the bill. The public option, Medicare buy-in, drug re-importation, repeal of the anti-trust exemption, cheaper drugs for Medicare with direct drug price negotiations were all removed.

This is not meant to be a doomsday prediction or a campaign manual for Republicans (they already know how to run against this bill). This is meant to be a massive warning to Democrats. All year, I have been trying to warn Democrats in Congress. They are about to commit political suicide by over-promising, under-delivering, and making themselves appear tools of the corporations ripping off regular Americans. If you say you are going to reform health care you better reform health care.

Health care reform is not unpopular because of attack campaigns against it. No amount of attack commercials was able to really dent the strong support for a public option. The bill is unpopular because Democrats kept removing every popular idea from the bill. Democrats are driving themselves straight off a cliff. They need to change course. Having the President say the only thing the very unpopular bill needs to save Democrats in 2010 is a good PR campaign is not helping the party.
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DrDan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-22-10 07:40 AM
Response to Original message
2. and this was before yesterday's SCOTUS ruling . . . .
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AndyA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-22-10 07:46 AM
Response to Original message
4. I'll bet it's because people still think the HCR bill includes "death panels"
and will cause them to lose their current insurance, or the costs will skyrocket, or one of the other lies Republicans kept repeating to people all year long.

Every single time Sarah Palin was on television talking about "death panels" in HCR, the anchor person after the clip should have stated that Palin's words were NOT TRUE. Every single time a Republican mentioned that HCR would increase the deficit, it should have been followed with facts that indicated HCR would REDUCE the deficit.

And that's why we must legislate the mainstream media in this country. They allow flat out lies to stand when they don't correct them.

What the SCOTUS did yesterday was put an end to Democracy in this country. Now politics is all about who has the most money, and that's not what the founders intended when they created the documents that are supposed to protect us from ourselves.

Obama and the Dems in Congress have precious little time to act. It's time for them to do the same thing Bush and the GOP did a few years back, and if the GOP doesn't like it, TOUGH SHIT. This is much too serious to be bipartisan about.

Bipartisanship has got us nothing. Toss it aside and get on with the business of protecting WE THE PEOPLE. (Corporations are not people, they are made up of individual people who all have their rights protected, they do not deserve nor need additional rights over and above those of everyone else.)
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-22-10 07:54 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. Or because the population hates mandates and wants a public option? n/t
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grytpype Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-22-10 08:28 AM
Response to Reply #6
10. Or they are crying liberal deadbeats who refuse to buy health insurance?
They want free health care with someone else paying for it?
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-22-10 11:22 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. Mandates without a public option are fascist, period.
The Feds essentially force you to pay the mass murderers who stand between you and your doctor.
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marshall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-22-10 08:04 AM
Response to Original message
9. How many are facting re-election?
Anybody else would have time to bounce back from the present climate.
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