Too bad the 'base' did not turn out in '04 to vote for Kerry. Just not 'cool' enough. Bush'04 just

[Captain Hilts]

kicked our asses with their Supreme Court appointments.

[gateley]

1. I didn't vote for Obama because he was "cool" -- that's insulting. I voted for

Kerry because I always vote Dem, abut I have to say I honestly assumed Bush would be out because of Iraq. I was stunned Kerry didn't cream Bush. Maybe others felt the same and thought Kerry's win was a given?

[Captain Hilts]

3. Same could be said of Clinton voters. Didn't mean to single out 'Bam voters.

Hell, FDR and JFK had a 'cool' factor too.

[gateley]

6. I see your point, but do you honestly think people didn't vote because they

felt Kerry lacked that cool factor? Man, if that's the case, how did Carter ever get elected?

I'm with you that the base didn't show up to ensure a Kerry victory, but I think the "cool" reference is inaccurate. Maybe they were just lazy fucks. :7

[Captain Hilts]

10. I guess it's hard to say. Carter was something so very different.

The huge turnout this go round - and all the threads here celebrating folks in their '50s+ voting for the first time - drove me crazy.

I'm touchy about '04 turnout because it cost us a lot of lives in Iraq.

[gateley]

39. Yeah -- which is why I personally thought Bush would have been thrown out

on his ear. I couldn't fucking believe that people were willing to let him continue!

Agree, Carter was something so very different.

[Captain Hilts]

42. I agree. That press conf. with 'Bam and Bubba was a real reminder of how dreadful he is. nt

[Deep13]

9. Voted for Clinton in the primaries and Obama in the general.

I never miss an election. I don't regret either vote.

[Captain Hilts]

11. I did same and attended the inaugural. It was all very exciting. The whole cycle. nt

[EFerrari]

19. Young people worked their hearts out for John Kerry.

All my younger friends worked for the better part of two years to keep the coalition together. Kerry wasn't left enough for them and they DID IT ANYWAY. The votes were stolen in Ohio. In a lot of other places, too, but outright in Ohio.

It had zip to do with youth or Latinos. That was just the BushCo spin.

[Captain Hilts]

27. Volunteers corps always skew young - and old. Voting was typically low. nt

[Sebastian Doyle]

2. Too bad the DLC shit all over the candidate who could have actually beat the Chimp

:evilfrown:

[blm]

26. sorry, I love Dean as Chairman of DNC, but, he folded after the first big backlash

against him. Kerry didn't. Kerry had media telling him to get out of the race and the Clintonites stabbing him in the back throughout.

He had to spend his own money in the final months because DLC would NOT direct any money from their pals toward a candidate like Kerry. DLC picks were Edwards and Lieberman, but, really were just on hold for Hillary2008, just like McAuliffe was with DNC.

Even Dean said the spin against Kerry not being a fighter is baloney. He said Kerry kicked his ass in the primary and said so RESPECTFULLY.

[Deep13]

4. Are you fucking kidding me?

"The base" was out. You should have seen our campaign office in Ohio. Our phone banks had so many volunteers that people were lending their cellular phones just so we could accommodate them all. People were walking in off the street asking how they could help. "The base" gave a monumental effort.

[kentuck]

20. The OP is operating on some imaginary revisionism..

it seems to me.

[Captain Hilts]

28. Campaign offices always skew young. Turning out to actually vote is a different demographic. nt

[Deep13]

40. 1. not true. 2. what difference does that make?

You said "the base" didn't turn out in '04. It did. As an irrelevant side note, our volunteers in '04 were of all ages. There were many 40ish, middle class parents who did not want to lose their houses or see their children killed in Iraq.

[Captain Hilts]

41. The demographic of the volunteers in an office does not relate to those who turnout to vote. nt

[Deep13]

58. It did that time. And the turnout was huge regardless. nt

[onenote]

what did those who didn't turn out think was going to happen?

Did they think that Kerry would appoint justices like roberts and alito and that it didn't make a difference? Kerry would've appointed justices like Sotamayor, in all likelihood, and guess what...it makes a HUGE difference.

So fuck those that stayed home because Kerry (or before him Gore) was too "centrist." Anyone who can't tell the difference between Kerry and Bush (or Gore and Bush) is a complete idiot in my book.

[Deep13]

56. Who the hell stayed home?

Turnout was heavy everywhere.

[onenote]

51. what did those who didn't turn out think was going to happen?

Did they think that Kerry would appoint justices like roberts and alito and that it didn't make a difference? Kerry would've appointed justices like Sotamayor, in all likelihood, and guess what...it makes a HUGE difference.

So fuck those that stayed home because Kerry (or before him Gore) was too "centrist." Anyone who can't tell the difference between Kerry and Bush (or Gore and Bush) is a complete idiot in my book.

[ecstatic]

5. the votes were stolen, remember? nt

[Captain Hilts]

7. Reading about Ohio has raised a LOT of questions. nt

[EFerrari]

13. There was an immediate media campaign that said young people

didn't turn out and that Latinos voted for Bush, right out of the gate. Remember? And they barely mentioned Ohio anywhere. It was unreal.

ETA: I forgot those "values voters" that no one was ever able to find. As if John Kerry reads like a libertine. lol

[Captain Hilts]

14. The young didn't turn out in '04. nt

[EFerrari]

15. That turned out not to be true. And the reason I remember

is because tracking down the truth of that story is how I got to DU.

[Captain Hilts]

25. I followed it too. Turnout was lousy, as it usually is. '08 was unusual. nt

[EFerrari]

32. The turnout, 08 aside because as you say unusual, was okay.

There was no "low" turnout among young people. Nevius at the Chronicle wrote a story immediately blaming youth and it didn't jibe with ANYTHING I'd been seeing for two years. So I dug around and did the math and wound up at DU, and in the ER forum, found out that young people voted for Kerry just fine. So did women -- remember, the Thugs were saying he wouldn't get "soccer moms"? That was bullshit. He got them. And that Kerry got MORE, not fewer, Latinos in 2004. That the Republians were spitting out these stories that were false when you tracked down the numbers.

There is no way George Bush won that election. Maybe Mark Crispin Miller has good files on this because he ran down all the categories that the Republicans claimed and they were ALL fakery. I think Greg Pallast did, too. I know we did at the time in the ER forum.

Of course, no one has time to do that. I did because I worked at home and I was pissed as hell.

[Captain Hilts]

36. Low turnout by youth is a constant, not a variable. '08 was a real exception.

So, you're right, about other factors also being important.

But it stung to see so many 'first time' voters in the last election that were eligible in '04. We lost 1000s of lives in Iraq because Dem voters sat on their hands.

And, yes, I think Kerry should have pitched a fit about what happened in Ohio. If you have to wait in line for over 90 minutes to vote,you're being denied the vote. It's that simple.

Now that we're on the winning side, we need a full investigation of what happened in Ohio, but, because we're on the winning side, we'll probably just forget it.

It must be frustrating for folks that saw it up close.

[mod mom]

54. and locally, the press fudged the numbers & wouldn't retract even when offered BOE spreadsheets.

My big wake up call at the complicity of the media was when the Cols OH Dispatch (DISGRACE) ran a map indicating machine allocation in Franklin County. I knew this inform to be BS and I called and called and called until I found a BOE staffer who forwarded me a spreadsheet indicating allocation. I handed this off to Fitrakis and this document ended up becoming a focus on how Blackwell disenfranchised low income Af Am precincts in Franklin county (and of course elsewhere) but when offered this information to the Dispatch-they weren't even interested.

I would love to hear John Conyers-who has archived the evidence, to finally come out. What's he got to lose now? We're all screwed with this horrible decision so why not set the record straight and start exposing the truth. Can't wait for Obama & the party. Unfortunately they've proven they are not up for the job and woun't be part of the solution.

BEYOND :mad:

[Renew Deal]

8. 2000 Nader voters are more to blame.

"There's no difference between Gore and Bush." Uh huh!

[Captain Hilts]

12. YES!

[Flaneur]

23. Bogus bullshit. Way more Florida Dems voted for Bush than Nader.

The Nader bashing is so tired and myopic.

[Chisox08]

45. Did Nader voters cause Gore to lose in his home state.

If he would have won Tennessee he would have won. Joe Lieberman was a horrible choice for VP.

[557188]

53. 10 years later

Yawn.

The Obama administration has basically proven Nader correct anyways.

[anonymous171]

16. Maybe Kerry should have done more to appeal to the base

[blm]

17. The base DID turn out. McAuliffe spent 4yrs making sure their votes would get denied, lost, stolen

McAuliffe collapsed party infrastructure in so many states it made it so easy for GOP to gain control of every level of the election process where votes are allowed, cast and counted.

Many counties across the country didn't even HAVE a Dem office....even in counties that should have been blue.

It was Howard Dean who rebuilt party infrastructure that previous chairs had allowed to collapse.

[EFerrari]

21. When we were tracking down voting problems in the 2004 aftermath

you couldn't swing a spoiled ballot without hitting a Republican. Remember? Man, I do.

[Blue_In_AK]

18. I loved John Kerry for president.

I was much more excited about him as a candidate than Barack Obama and was devastated when he "lost." That may put me in the minority here, but he's been fighting for us his whole life, and he would have been a remarkable president, in my opinion.

[EFerrari]

22. I've learned a lot of John Kerry since 2004. He's good man

that only inspires more admiration the more you know him, which is unusual.

[Captain Hilts]

30. Yes. I agree. He's done good. He would have been a good prez. nt

[Captain Hilts]

31. He was the only guy that tried to go after BCCI. nt

[stray cat]

24. BUT they made their point by not voting- right?

[Captain Hilts]

29. Unfortunately, yes. I remember friends in grad school not bothering to vote in '88. nt

[Jennicut]

33. I voted in every Presidential election since 1996, when I was old enough.

Even though I live in CT and we always vote for the Dems...at least since I have been voting.
Clinton, Gore, Kerry, Obama.

[Captain Hilts]

35. Me too. Since '80. Local elections too, despite living out of the country. nt

[yurbud]

34. we did turn out in spite of milk toast candidate who didn't fight voter intimidation or vote rigging

[Captain Hilts]

37. Yes. He should have made a stink about Ohio. I agree. Too much senatorly 'decorum'. nt

[yurbud]

50. and I think it was Bob Shrum who told him not to bitch because ''he could always run again''

[MadHound]

38. Too bad Kerry decided against trying to get the Ohio votes recounted

Instead he did the thing that I most associate with Democrats, cave.

[Captain Hilts]

43. Yes. Sad but true. I think it was a series in Harper's that won me to that view. nt

[Chisox08]

44. Kerry would have won in 2004 if he would have fought

To get those votes in Ohio counted. Just like Al Gore in 2000 he didn't stand up for himself and let Shrub steal another election.

[nadinbrzezinski]

46. Don't forget OH my friend

and my tinfoil is tingling as to WHY they did not choose to fight that fight.

[mod mom]

49. I'll guess....

If Kerry/Edwards took office then it would be many years before the DLC anointed candidate would have a chance, so that candidate's scumbag buddy helped to grease the wheel:




Did Carville Tip Bush Off to Kerry Strategy (Woodward)

By M.J. Rosenberg - October 7, 2006, 9:11AM
I just came across a troubling incident that Bob Woodward reports in his new book. Very troubling.

On page 344, Woodward describes the doings at the White House in the early morning hours of Wednesday, the day after the '04 election.

Apparently, Kerry had decided not to concede. There were 250,000 outstanding ballots in Ohio.

So Kerry decides to fight. In fact, he considers going to Ohio to camp out with his voters until there is a recount. This is the last thing the White House needs, especially after Florida 2000.

So what happened?

James Carville gets on the phone with his wife, Mary Matalin, who is at the White House with Bush.

"Carville told her he had some inside news. The Kerry campaign was going to challenge the provisional ballots in Ohio -- perhaps up to 250,000 of them. 'I don't agree with it, Carville said. I'm just telling you that's what they're talking about.'

"Matalin went to Cheney to report...You better tell the President Cheney told her."

Matalin does, advising Bush that "somebody in authority needed to get in touch with J. Kenneth Blackwell, the Republican Secretary of State in Ohio who would be in charge of any challenge to the provisional votes." An SOS goes out to Blackwell.

-snip
http://www.tpmcafe.com/blog/coffeehouse/2006/oct/07/did_carville_tip_bush_off_to_kerry_strategy_woodward

[nadinbrzezinski]

52. Oh worst than that... ruling elites... and all that

[mod mom]

55. The Money Party.

sigh...they needed a strong corporatist they could count on. Kerry had BCCI info that might be disturbing to the agenda.

[mod mom]

47. Kerry won Ohio & there the presidency. Too bad the DLC wouldn't fight for the D votes.

[Echo In Light]

59. Amazing how many still won't accept that 04 was every bit as rigged as 99

[Mari333]

48. yell at Ken Blackwell , dont yell at me. I voted for Kerry. yell at Diebold.

unrec

[WI_DEM]

57. The base did turnout for Kerry. Obama owes his election to independents

who didn't vote for Kerry in the numbers they did for Obama.