Living Advice for Younger DUers

[MineralMan]

At 64, and doing OK, I thought I'd share some financial and other advice that may help younger DUers be doing OK when they turn 64, too. Most of this advice is the same advice my father would have given me, had I asked him. I followed his example, mostly.

1. Strive for excellence in whatever work you do. Excellence rises, while mere adequacy sinks.

2. If possible, take the initiative and be in business for yourself.

3. Buy a modest home in your 20s or early 30s with at least 20% down and pay it off as soon as you possibly can. Do not borrow on this home. Ever. If you need to move, sell it and put the entire equity in the new home. Pay that one off as well, as soon as you can. It is your home, not an investment opportunity.

4. Be moderate in your acquisitions of material goods. The 42" HDTV may well be more than adequate. The 60" TV is probably overkill.

5. Consider buying good, used automobiles, boats, and other such transportation items. Let someone else absorb the early depreciation.

6. Beware of buying expensive toys you will end up not using. Rent them when you need them, instead.

7. Continue learning throughout your life. Broad knowledge in several areas will benefit you in many ways. Read widely.

8. If possible, do things yourself. You can learn to do almost anything and save large sums by doing many things for yourself, rather than paying someone else to do them.

9. Save as much money as you possibly can without becoming Scrooge-like. Do not put these savings into high-risk investments, but opt for secure growth and the safety of your capital.

10. Eat a healthy diet and avoid habits that are harmful to your health.

11. Be generous with your contributions to charitable organizations, whether they are money or time. This will feed your soul.

12. In business and in your personal life, treat every person you encounter with honesty, courtesy, kindness, forbearance, and respect. If you have enemies, avoid them as much as possible, and maintain your principles in all dealings with them.

13. Be slow with anger and dissatisfaction in your life. Roll with the punches and maintain your balance at all times. Accept what you have no power to alter, but work to improve the society around you as far as is possible.

14. Consider carefully before giving your word to do something, since you must fulfill what you have committed yourself to do. Be faithful to your word always, since you are the one most damaged when you fail to keep your word.

15. In important relationships, like family, do not put your desires above the needs of others, but treat them as no more than equal to others' needs.

16. When things go wrong, learn from them and do not repeat the same mistakes that led to the failure.

[samplegirl]

1. Excellent Post

Just read it to my daughter.

K&R

[Go2Peace]

46. Good advice for the older generation. But you will loose your soul to play the "career" game in this

one.

I agree with the advice to start your own business, but be careful not to lose perspective. Everyone cannot do this, but really one of the few meaningful career choices where you won't "feel the heel" of fascists though and be driven down to mediocrity and slaveness, is to work for an NGO that is trying to make the world a better place.

Otherwise, most "professional careers" are empty pits of materialism and control. Hate to say it, but it is that way until we change our labor laws.

I would add another, buy a house ***together**, with a friend and split it in half inside. I have several friends that did that and it has worked out great. It brings down all the costs and if you get along well you make new "family" you can depend on. I think multi-family dwellings are the way to go for the future.

And last --- TRAVEL --- and LIVE, not just "visit", in another country at least once in your life. I know some will argue with me on this, but if you have never lived in another country you can NEVER truly have perspective on your own life and country, not to mention the world. Living in another country, if you really try to understand the locals, is about the most perspective changing and intellectual thing you can do in life.

[dixiegrrrrl]

60. "I think multi-family dwellings are the way to go for the future."

I totally agree with you, and wonder why it is not being talked about more at this stage of the economy.

I also agree with living in an another place. The perspective is invaluable.

[MineralMan]

86. My wife's young (40) cousin and her husband started out that way.

They went in with another couple and bought a run-down duplex. They fixed it up and lived in it. Eventually her cousin bought out the other couple. Now, they own a single-family home for their growing family, along with that duplex and a triplex they bought and refurbished last year. All of their rentals are rented out to older couples who have no plans to move again. The income from the five rentals is more than paying all the loans, and they're thinking about buying another multiple-family house to add to their rentals.

It is now their business, and they're doing very well. Every hour of work in these places was done by them, and they've learned all they need to know. They have a unique sense of style and have made each place unique and charming. It's a great story. If I were thirty years younger, I'd be doing the same thing, but I no longer have the energy require to rehab houses. A pity, since there are so many opportunities right now.

[tavalon]

127. We have that

We also decided to practice socialism within the household economy. It's been great.

[crazyjoe]

139. "I would add another, buy a house ***together**, with a friend and split it in half inside"

bad idea.....very bad idea
if i have to explain it to you, you probably don't own any property.

"most "professional careers" are empty pits of materialism and control"

do you include that ridiculous statement on your resume?
unemployed huh? Or more likely, still in school.
I'm glad your not giving life advice to my kids.

[HughBeaumont]

142. Travelling is even out of the question.

I just cannot afford it. To even go to Disneyworld in Orlando would set me back about $3000. I don't even want to THINK about what Europe/UK would cost thanks to the weakened US Dollar.

[closeupready]

160. I have worked at NGO's, and the problem is that they can often be worse environments

than corporate/profit-driven ones. One reason why I run far and fast from any NGO that tells me - during the interview process - that "one of the nice things about working here is you do good for other people" which almost always is code language for "you'll take meager pay and bare bones benefits and like it, because otherwise we will tar and feather you for being greedy". At least in a profit-driven environment, the implicit understanding is that everyone is there to (at least) make a decent living.

[rockymountaindem]

2. My parents, who are about your age, have given me the same kind of advice

and I have learned a lot from watching them. When they told me as a kid "always live below your means" I never really understood what that meant. I'm 23 now and I think I've internalized a lot of what they've told me. And they are still showing me how it's done by example.

When we moved when I was about 13 my parents explained how they bought the cheapest house on our street in our newly-developed neighborhood. As they said "why have the expensive house and let other houses bring down your property value when you can have your neighbors pay the extra money and bring yours up?" My dad has also always told me the importance of owning your own home. Back before I was born my parents got the first house I lived in (also new construction) after the original buyer backed out. The developer was desperate to offload it, and my parents jumped on that one. Then, just this week, they bought a new car for thousands of dollars off because the dealership had put 5,000 miles on it. My mom and dad are pretty good at all the things you just described and I'm looking to follow in their footsteps in that regard as I age.

[MineralMan]

4. That was my experience, as well. I learned from my parents

by example, rather than from them telling me things. As I went forward, I discovered that when I did not follow their model, things did not work out as well as when I did. Your parents sound very wise, and you will do very well by emulating them, I'm sure.

[JerseygirlCT]

68. I see a fair number of younger people - maybe fairly new in their

careers, but suddenly making some money - go for the biggest house, the fanciest car, etc. I understand there's a bit of giddiness when suddenly you can buy nice things for yourself. But I think they're being unbelievably foolish.

They're as likely to find themselves in a very bad place, financially. Is a BMW necessary when a perfectly good and a great deal less expensive car would do the job and allow you to live without a big car loan? I certainly don't think so. We lived in a condo until we could afford a complete 20% down payment on our house. I'd be a constant nervous wreck if we'd put ourselves out on a limb financially just to have that house. And I often think that the best thing about the house is how lucky we were with neighbors. (Don't get me wrong, I like the house very much, but I like the life with good people around me even more).

[leftstreet]

3. 'Buy a modest home in your 20s or early 30s with at least 20% down'

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[MineralMan]

6. I see you find that amusing.

My nieces and nephews have all done just that, and fairly recently. They saved very hard to do it, too, and now they're on their way toward paying them off.

It's a matter of priorities.

[leftstreet]

9. You wanna help young people? Tell em to get out in the streets

You're encouraging young people to identify with the very Ruling Class that is fucking them over.

Capitalism is unsustainable.

The 'Middle Class' is a myth.

Young people are the hope, globally and locally, for a sustainable BULLSHIT free future for the peon class.

Teach them to organize!

[MineralMan]

21. Street activism is a good thing. No question.

I did a lot of it before I got on with the rest of my life. Selma in 1965. The Pentagon in 1968. Lots of other stuff, too. My activism now is done with my keyboard, with a little street work from time to time. The two are not mutually exclusive.

I believe, though, that you are wrong in general about capitalism, the middle class, etc. There are many excesses, but a population as large as ours in the USA cannot support itself except through capitalism. The difference is that I suggested that people operate as business owners, not workers. That's what I have done since 1974. I've had no employees in all of that time, but have always worked alone to earn my way.

It worked out pretty well, overall, and I've been in several different fields in that time, mostly in writing, but selling stuff on the web, too. Usually my own products, and all were very sustainable.

One can be an activist and still earn a living. Many have done so.

[leftstreet]

28. You want people to 'operate as business owners, not workers'

And you believe that the US population (300+ million vs 6+ billion worldwide) can't be sustained without capitalism.

Man, oh man, WHY wasn't I invited to whatever wild party you went to last night?

:cry:

[MineralMan]

32. In many respects, every worker is also a business owner. What the

worker is selling is his/her time. As I said, I sold my time and knowledge as a self-employed person. That was my business. I did not oppress any employees, since I had none. I sold one product or another to customers, whether it was my writing, or my software, or the mineral specimens I sold to collectors.

No employees. Just me. The person working for a corporation is not all that different. They just don't have to pay for the place where they work. I did.

You seem quite angry. I'm sorry. Idealism is a hard job.

[TwentyFive]

106. No sin in being a filthy rich Democrat. In fact, it might be a virtue.

Capitalism is a lot like a gun, a bottle of wine or an automobile. It makes life better, but a little government oversight keeps things from getting out of hand.

[Bluenorthwest]

30. It is regional humor

In the modest neighborhood where I grew up, a 20% down would be about $80,000 on a small house. At least.

[MineralMan]

34. That's definitely an issue. Here, in the Twin Cities, there are

many houses one can buy for that $80,000 right now. There are jobs here, too. If I were priced out of living in a region, I would move. I have done that in my life a few times. Location is less important than it often seems.

[Bluenorthwest]

38. I'm a bit older than the people in question

But location is often extremely important. It depends on one's work, you know? What I did for a living really can not be done outside of a couple of cities.
Also, some people have family to care for, elders and the like, and for them that can be very important, as it should be.

Nothing at all against the Twin Cities, which I'd heartily recommend to those who could live there, much to offer, wonderful people, the Guthrie, just a great urban area, and among the places I think have more future than past. Reasonable housing is nothing to scoff at either.

[MineralMan]

41. You're right that some people are somewhat restricted in the

places they live by the jobs they do. That can be a real problem, I'm sure. I'm not sure what to say about that situation. It's beyond my own experience.

[quakerboy]

115. A question for you

Your job is only available in a few localities. What would you do if living in those localities cost more than you could make doing your job?

[DesertFlower]

47. it would have been even more in

new york.

[uberllama42]

48. If I can ask, where did you grow up that a small house was $400k?

My parents' mortgage was a little more than $80k, on a house of about 2000 sq. feet, maybe a little less. Twenty-five years ago the area was a little rural town in Pa., and it's grown into an affluent suburb. I wasn't under the impression that the town had particularly low property values when we moved there.

[burrfoot]

88. Well, I know that here in Sarasota, FL,

a 2 bedroom 2 bath with a pool (before the crash, of course) went for $345. A safe, clean neighborhood, but not one of the "nicer" neighborhoods, or one of the newer ones.

Just sayin'.

[MineralMan]

89. I guess my advice would be to "move away from there."

Some places are not suitable for young people to make their start. Yet, there are many places that are. The fact that a place has unaffordable housing simply means that you must start somewhere else. The time to do that is when you're young. It's fairly easy, then. It's much harder later.

[TwentyFive]

107. But now $100,000 will get you a nice starter place in Sarasota.

I see plenty of condos and small homes in Sarasota for about $100,000. And $345,000 will get you a nicer home than many people will ever live in.

[Retrograde]

108. Sounds like the Bay Area

$400K is cheap for houses in this area. Some of it is due to desirability, some due to the recent ramp-up in prices due to mortgage finagling, some due to greed (asking price isn't necessarily what the seller gets in the end). When we bought our first house the 10% down payment was my entire take home pay for a year, plus part of Mr. Retrograde's. We lived frugally for quite a while: one small car, vacations were camping trips, did our own house and garden work - none of the things some people consider necessities.

[tavalon]

128. Seattle area is one of those areas

[lumberjack_jeff]

55. A neighborhood in which a small house is $400,000 is not modest. n/t

[wickerwoman]

116. The neighborhood might be modest and the price still be astronomical.

In most of the suburbs less than a 30 minute commute from Seattle, 1960s split levels go for $300,000+ now (and were pushing $400,000 before the crash). Very, very modest fix-er-upper three bedroom ramblers are hard to find under $280,000. The house my parents bought for $70,000 in 1980 would sell for $325,000 today.

None of these are McMansion neighborhoods. They're older settled communities that are convenient for the city. You can still see chain-link fences, peeling paint, chicken coops in the back yard and rusty cars on the lawn in neighborhoods where the average house price is pushing $300,000.

[lumberjack_jeff]

117. Then pick a different city to commute from.

I live 90 minutes from Seattle, lots of houses for less than $100k.

[wickerwoman]

122. It depends on your job.

Not everybody can transfer their job skills to any area they want. Only 12 people in Washington State do what I do and I'm not in a position to dictate terms on where I set up office. And a three hour a day commute consumes massive resources. Like $65,000 just in gas over 30 years. Add wear and tear on the car, lost income from three hours a day in the car, extra day-care etc. and it's not that insane to spend more on a modest house closer to your job.

The point is that, as you clearly know, the fact that a house costs more than $300,000 in Seattle doesn't automatically mean that it's an extravagant new-build or that it's in a pristine, snobby neighborhood. I was out house-hunting with my brother this summer and there are still some capital D dumps out there (we're talking chalk outlines, holes in the walls where the goats ate through, huge mold colonies...) going for well over $250,000.

And Seattle is cheap compared with New Jersey and some other places I've lived.

[Arugula Latte]

124. I'd rather give up something else than live far out from the city.

Some of us just are not meant for rural areas or far out 'burbs.

[tavalon]

129. Amen

I lived in Duvall (outside of Seattle) and it was beautiful and I was miserable. It's a wonderful place to visit, but I'm a city girl. I can suffer the suburbs but way out in the country just eats at my soul.

[Arugula Latte]

147. I grew up in a suburb and had enough of it to last a lifetime.

I like camping and wilderness but never feel comfortable in rural towns, even if I'm just passing through. My overriding thought is always "Thank gawd I don't live here!"

[lumberjack_jeff]

143. I have no doubt that MineralMan's advice doesn't fit everyone's style.

Just be aware of what you're trading off.

[pink-o]

149. Agree! I'd rather rent in San Francisco than buy in the exburbs

or the heartland of the USA. All my sensibilities are in harmony with this city. If I didn't live here, I'd move back to Europe.

[Arugula Latte]

150. I lived in S.F. as a young person -- wonderful times!

Now I'm north of you in Portland, which has been easier to live in (aka more affordable) as a person with a family.

:hi:

[MineralMan]

170. Depending on the city, houses in the city itself can be the

biggest bargain around. Certainly, that's true here in Saint Paul, where city houses go for way less than suburban ones. My neighborhood is in the city limits but on the edge of the city. Old 1950s ramblers. If you go closer to the center of the city, prices are even lower, but the neighborhoods may seem dangerous to some.

This is, I understand, not the case in San Francisco or some other cities.

[DesertFlower]

173. when we lived in queens, new york,

we were 15 minutes from midtown manhattan. of course, it took longer during rush hour. we were not willing to move out to the burbs.

now we live on 2-1/2 acres on the side of a mountain.

[BeatleBoot]

80. $400K is Modest?

Bite the bag.

[DesertFlower]

45. my niece is 28. she and hubby

lived in DC for 5 years because of his job, but they're intention was too move back to south carolina which they did in august. they saved as much as they could. they just bought a house for $169,000. they have about $50,000 saved. don't know if they're going to put the whole thing down. they will need furniture. they also put off having children until they were financially ready. i'm happy to say that my niece is 4 months pregnant.

[MineralMan]

51. Good for them!

[DesertFlower]

53. when they made the move to DC,

it was because he got a job with a company that was just starting out. there were only about 12 people. when he told them he wanted to go back to SC, they said he could work from home, but then they decided that he could open up a small office with a few people in greenville, SC.

[Gormy Cuss]

52. It's also a matter of geography.

In some areas of the country being able to buy anything with 20% down while in your 20s is impossible unless the Bank of Mom & Dad is funding a large part of the down payment. Most people that I knew who bought in their 20s had either active or passive subsidies from the Bank of M & D. Passive subsidies include cash gifts for birthdays, anniversaries, and Christmas or other gift-giving holidays, handing over older cars and furniture when the parents upgrade, and the biggest one of all: having parents support you through college.

Even with parental subsidies it's still very hard to afford housing in high cost areas. Yes, people can opt to move out of high cost areas to make it happen but it's easier said than done for many young people -- moving away from social networks also exert a cost. Of course if one happens to live in an area where housing affordability is better it's a good move to save and buy as soon as you can afford to do so with 20% down, thus avoiding PMI.


BTW, overall I think your OP has many good points for young people to consider.

[Taitertots]

73. It is a matter of luck

You can't really believe the opportunities they had were available to everyone. They were just lucky that the opportunity was made available to them.

I've got the money in the bank to afford a 20% down payment on a house right now. I'm not so egotistical to think it is because something special I am doing. I had the luck to have opportunities made available to me.

[RaleighNCDUer]

133. On 20 - 25k/yr?

MOST people don't have the income to put ANYTHING away to get that 20% down. Particularly in their 20s - early 30s.

I have ONE nephew who has done that - he's just finished his residency and is now a full fledged doctor. Oh, and he just turned 36. The nephew who works at Starbucks, the one who is trying to put back money for film school, the neice who is getting a humanities degree, the daughter who is waiting on her first disability check after 5 years unemployed, the daughter who is married to the ex-con and has 3 kids -- not so much.

Their priorities are SURVIVAL. Not everybody - in fact, the vast majority - do not go to college. The vast majority will not earn over 40k in their lifetimes (or the adjusted for inflation equivalent).

But that's right - people are poor because of their own failings. They are bad people who willfully make bad choices.

How silly of me to forget that.

[MineralMan]

12. A little more information for you.

Right now, buying a home is more affordable than it has been for a long, long time. My first home needed a lot of work, and I got it for considerably under the value of similar homes that didn't. I did the work myself, paid the house off in 12 years, and it more than paid for the home I now own.

My wife has a cousin who, with her husband, have done the same, but have also purchased duplexes and triplexes that were distressed, then made the necessary repairs themselves, learning as they went. They're well on their way to success down the road.

[leftstreet]

15. I'll text message your advice to these people right away

[MineralMan]

18. A donation of money to a local homeless shelter seems more useful

to me than a text message. That's what I do. I also bought several dozen winter jackets and parkas at garage sales this past summer and donated them to the shelter I support.

[greenbird]

69. I admire your ability to respond in such a civil manner.

Your post was about much more than the cost of housing!

[MissDeeds]

77. +1

I agree

[dionysus]

13. i bought my house when i was 26.. i didn't put 20 down, but what's so funny?

:shrug:

[Jennicut]

159. Yeah. It is not ridiculous. I bought a house at the same age as you.

[mnhtnbb]

50. Our 23 yo son closed on his first home, 1400 sq ft townhome, when he was 21.

He used money his grandmother left him, and some funds his Dad and I provided, to put more than 20% down
so his payment would be less than his then current rent. He tells me he's paying an extra $50/mo to pay down the loan balance.

It can be done.

On edit: This son refused to go to college, but when he was 18 he moved out to share an apartment
and get a job (we insisted). We told him to first accumulate savings of 3-6 months expenses
and when he was laid off the first time, he was able to weather it. When he was laid off the second
time (6 weeks before he was due to close on this new townhome that was under construction)we did
a LOT of hoping and praying that he'd find a job in time to complete the sale. He did --and his two year
anniversary is coming up in that job about two weeks before his two year anniversary in the townhouse!
(Since he didn't go to college, we helped with funds that would have paid for his college education
that went toward the down payment.)

[Taitertots]

72. Too bad everyone else doesn't have rich grandparents and parents

Could he have done that if mommy and daddy didn't pay for it?

[mnhtnbb]

112. Mommy and Daddy aren't paying for it. We would have helped him

through 4 years of an in-state college; he chose not to go. We loaned him (and yes, he signed a note
to us) less than we would have spent sending him to college.

We did not co-sign a loan; he makes all his loan payments, taxes, insurance, HOA dues.

[Taitertots]

148. So he required a loan from the bank of Mom and Dad

That means it is not something everyone can do. Only people lucky enough to be born to wealthy parents.

[abelenkpe]

162. Everyone I know who has bought a home

and I'm talking friends, co-workers, relatives for the past 15 years...each and everyone of them had help through inheritance or relatives. I don't know anyone who saved up and put 20 percent down, or even 5 percent. I'd seriously question if they've ever saved for anything ever.

Fortune is a requirement isn't it?

I'm not so fortunate.

All the other advice is good tho. :)

[donco6]

74. I did it.

And it was MODEST, let me tell you.

But I learned a lot about fixing up things. And I made money from my sweat equity.

[MineralMan]

81. Yup. Sweat equity is sweet equity.

[varelse]

114. Yeah, that was my reaction too

I'm sure it's still possible somewhere in the US but not where I grew up, and even less so where I live now.

[Jennicut]

158. I bought a home at the age of 26. If you save, it can be done.

We didn't have 20% down, but we did have about 10%. We also bought it for only $136,000 in Connecticut of all places (house prices are disgusting around here). Yes, it is a small cape. But we are both 34 and can afford our mortgage every month.

[Gregorian]

5. Damn. This is some of the best advice anyone can possibly give. Listen up, people.

I have to give you superb marks on this. I don't think I can add anything.

The big one I have valued in my life is- Don't have children.

[MineralMan]

7. I haven't had children, either, and don't regret that...most of the time.

However, my siblings have had children, and have still followed the path I described, and are doing very well for themselves, as are their children now, who are in their late 20s to mid-30s. All have excellent equity in their homes and are working hard to follow in their parents' footsteps.

[abelenkpe]

166. I used to think that

Then I had two. Wish I had more. They're awesome.

[Gregorian]

167. That's not how I meant it.

It could help one in their life. But it was advice that would make the world a better place for the rest of us out here.

[Raster]

8. Wow! Kinda of like an updated "Desiderata." Nice stuff. Thanks.

[Sal Minella]

152. A pragmatic Desiderata -- that's what the OP reminded me of immediately too. n/t

[hunter]

10. Don't buy stuff. It's bad for the earth.

Stuff will keep accumulating until it makes you unhappy.

Recipe for a happy life on earth:

Take only photographs, keep only memories, and don't trample the meadows.

This advice does not explain my collection of film cameras in any way, most especially the Yashicas or Polaroids.

[RevCheesehead]

11. Could we make #12 a prerequisite for membership on DU?

12. In business and in your personal life, treat every person you encounter with honesty, courtesy, kindness, forbearance, and respect. If you have enemies, avoid them as much as possible, and maintain your principles in all dealings with them.

Excellent work! :thumbsup:

[MineralMan]

14. A good idea. I sometimes fail at that one, and always regret it.

I'm working on it.

[RevCheesehead]

16. So are we all.

The important part is in not giving up, and being quick to apologize, and even quicker to forgive.

I hope everyone at least reads your post...it's terrific.

[MineralMan]

17. You're very kind.

[Posteritatis]

19. But then twelve would be the number of remaining DUers!

;)

[MineralMan]

20. Well, there is that, to be sure.

[Mira]

22. This is perfect. I'm sending it to my family members. K&R

[MineralMan]

23. Thanks. I hope they like it and can benefit from any part of it.

[Mira]

25. I am not sending it to my sister.

She recently took out an additional mortgage on the house she lives in to make a down payment on investment property, sight unseen, in a state 2000 miles from hers.
When that fell through, she used the money for a brand new Lexus, and yet another string of large matched pearls.

I think it's too late for her, when it comes to handling money (which she does not have in abundance) I am simply too proud of her to speak.

:rofl:

[woo me with science]

24. Excellent. Thank you. nt

[arcadian]

26. Excellence doesn't cut it, uniqueness cuts it.

[MineralMan]

27. The two terms are not mutually exclusive, I think.

These days, excellence in the workplace is often unique within that workplace. And for the self-employed, it's essential if you are to compete.

[hfojvt]

57. I'm not sure what cuts it

but excellence seems to be ignored at least as much as it is rewarded. The first one just sounds like the mantra of the 'successful'. "I deserve to be at the top and making big bucks because I have always done excellent work, that's why I rose to the top."

Also being in business for yourself can oftne mean working for nothing (or less) and hardly getting a day off, much less a paid vacation. Maybe it's different if your business gets big enough so that other people are working for you, but that probably becomes another headache.

[JerseygirlCT]

66. Perhaps if you think of excellence only in terms of

"getting ahead". I think there's much to be said for the positive impact on yourself of striving for excellence.

I'd urge my kids to do whatever they do with an eye to learning something from each experience. There's always something to learn, some contribution you can make. If you're going to do something, anything, then it's worth looking for what it can teach you.

[Mithreal]

29. Thank you. This should be reposted often.

[MineralMan]

35. Please feel free to post it wherever you like.

[Octafish]

31. K&R

Thank you for an excellent post, Mineral Man. I will pass it on to the young folks I know.

Wish I could've read this when I was young...

[MineralMan]

33. You're very welcome. Thanks for your kind words.

[Iggo]

36. And don't forget the sunscreen.

(Sorry. Couldn't resist.)

[Sal Minella]

153. Many will not get this

and I am tickled stupid to be one who did. Thanks for the LOL!

[SheilaT]

37. I think a corollary

to what you posted could be: Pay in cash whenever possible. Actual cash. Not a check, not a credit card. That way you really know how much things actually cost.

Most people think they need a lot more stuff than they really do.

Example: When we had our first child, we were relatively poor and lived in a small apartment with very small rooms. I learned that you need about half the equipment for a new baby that you're told you need.

The last couple of years have seen a large drop in my income, thanks mostly to being divorced. Because I can't afford to eat out very often, I've been cooking a lot more out home, brown-bag it to work, and even brought my old bread machine out of retirement. I've also lost thirty pounds.

[MineralMan]

40. Everyone's conditions are different, of course.

The principles remain the same, though, even if they have to be adjusted for different circumstances. You're right, of course. Cash is the best way to buy, and most people have far more than they actually need.

[dixiegrrrrl]

67. The # 1 rule I taught my 2 sons was: Do not go into debt

except for a house.
Save for everything else.
Then wait a week before you buy anything.

they are weathering this economy, they have thanked me for that advice.
I am proud of them for listening.

[MineralMan]

82. Good for you, and very good advice.

[demmiblue]

39. 17. Go out and see the world by any means possible...

study abroad, teach English and/or do volunteer work in another country, or simply scrimp and save to visit the place you have always dreamed of visiting. For most, it is a priceless investment that helps you grow as a person and leaves you with a lifetime of memories! And, you may never get another chance.

Great post! K&R

[MineralMan]

42. For me, the Air Force saw to it that I got to live somewhere other

than the USA. And it was a good thing for me, certainly. I wouldn't necessarily recommend the military right now, since the likelihood of spending your time in a war zone is quite high. But, then again, it was pretty much the same in the mid-60s when I enlisted in the USAF.

[JerseygirlCT]

65. +1 nt

[DesertFlower]

43. i'm 68. good advise from mineral man.

i'll tell you about my experiences. i got married to a bum when i was 19. had a child when i was almost 20. it was a struggle. we divorced in 67. as a single parent, i lived in a cheap apartment ($82 a month). hubby and i did buy a new car together before we split. it was a new 66 mustang. i kept the car and managed the payments which were $64 a month. i wasn't able to save much. i had about $600 in the bank.

i met hubby #2 in 1970. he was 6 years younger than me, but was with a top international corporation for 1 year. he worked as much overtime as he could get and i worked part time. we managed to take cheap vacations like driving to florida out of season (gas was cheap back then). we would take an efficiency in a cheap motel so we could eat cheaper.

gradually every year we started to do better. he was promoted to a position which made him exempt from overtime. i started to work full time. we did not save. we spent everything we made. had most of our clothes "tailor made", bought jewelry, etc. we lived in a nice apartment in a nice neighborhood in queens, new york. around 1984 i realized that we had to change our life style. we were making about $100,000 a year between us. because we didn't own a home we paid a lot in tax. new york has both state and city tax.

anyway we decided to move to phoenix. we banked my whole salary for one year. we bought a beautiful new house complete with swimming pool and spa for $164,000. we put 20% down. it was also at this point that we had decided to buy used cars instead of new. our mortgage payment was under $1300 a month. interest rates went down and we refinanced.

i always wanted a custom home. i spent a lot of time designing what i wanted and looking for lots. i wanted to live as close as possible to a mountain. we kept saving. during the clinton years, hubby was getting huge bonuses. that money went into the bank. we found a beautiful 2-1/2 acre lot which goes up the mountain side. it was 1996 and we paid $48,000. we didn't build our dream home till 2002. we only mortgaged $120,000. in 7 years just buy adding $300 a month to the principal we brought the mortgage down to $69,000.

also back in the late 90s we started paying cash for our cars. i hate car payments. we own 3 cars.

anyway, we are debt free except for the mortgage which we could pay off if we wanted. the accountant has advised us that now is not the right time. we use 2 credit cards as a convenience and we get a cash back bonus. we pay it off every month. no fees. no interest.

hubby is 62 and still working. he's been eligible for a pension for years, but he loves what he does. i stopped working when we moved to phoenix because of health problems. our 401k is invested in stable value. got out of the stock market years ago.

my point is. it's never to late to try and get your act together.

[MineralMan]

44. Thanks very much for your story. Your point is very well made!

[SoCalDem]

49. expanding on the theme with updated edits (we won in Nov '08)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x4170362#4173412

SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Sat Oct-04-08 02:27 PM
Original message

Learning to live in Recession..101

I dug through my journal & found these three "oldies" that some DUers still PM me for links to..

Maybe some new people can add to or benefit from thinking about things we can all do, to get through what's coming down the pike at us..

Some called me a "doom-sayer" or a "Nervous Nellie" at the time, but I've just been "there" before, and unfortunately, we all might be going "there" once more :(




Prepare your family for the hard times ahead.

Posted by SoCalDem in General Discussion

Sat Mar 10th 2007, 08:06 AM

No one is immune from the hard landing ahead.


As a boomer, I have lived through many recessions, and they are no fun..

The mini-recession (was it really even a real recession) in the post-Clinton /early Bush years was NOTHING compared to what may be looming on the horizon.

Many people are in way over their heads and a few missed paychecks can send them right onto the streets.

We all think that our family budget is carved in stone and there's no room for "adjustments", but in most cases that's not entirely true.



Easy stuff first:

1. Learn to cook:

......a) Even with higher grocery prices, it's still cheaper (and better for you ) to cook , than to order in, nuke a frozen dinner, or use prepared mixes
......b) grow some fresh veggies if you have some yard space
......c) stock up on bargains at the store when you see them
......d) shop with a list, and stick to it
......e) buy store brands whenever possible
......f) use coupons if they are for things you already buy
......g) Cook several meals at the same time and package your own "frozen dinners" for the rest of the week


2. GET RID OF YOUR CREDIT CARDS

.......a) If you cannot pay them off, please consider filing bankruptcy (if you qualify, and can do it). The deck is stacked against consumers, and it's only going to get worse, folks. The sooner you get "out from under", the sooner you can start rebuilding your financial stability .
........b) Keep ONE credit card with the lowest interest rate possible, and use it once a month (to keep it active)..and pay it in full BEFORE the due date..(If you need to rent a car or reserve a hotel room, you will need a credit card to avoid paying a large cash deposit.
.........c) If your bank offers it, use the online bill-paying service. This eliminates the cost of writing/mailing checks, and it provides a detailed record of what (and where) you are spending your money. It saves on postage too and gas..and time.
........d) Ask your bank for a checking account that comes with over-draft protection (ours has $1k) so if you ever screw up, you will not be charged a bunch of bank fees...or keep a savings account where you have your checking, so you could transfer (online) between accounts.
.......e) Buy a shredder and USE IT. Shred all papers that have any identifying information on them.
.......f) Pay your bills EARLY and pay extra if you can.

3. Examine your "extras".

.......a) Do you really "need" that cell phone package? Are your calls on it, the yak-yak killing-time calls or is it truly for "emergencies" like people tell themselves? Could you get by with a prepaid cheapo-phone that "lives in the car", and a cheaper "frill-free" land line for the yak-yak calls? (People managed this way for over 100 years)
.......b) Cut the cable bill by going to the bare-bones package and have friends tape the HBO stuff for you.
.......c) Take your lunch to work. Even $4-5 a day ends up being close to a Benjamin a month.
.......d) Send kids to school with a lunch too, It's better for them than what they get in the cafeteria. let them make their own, and they might accept it more.
........e) Shop the sales at upscale department stores, and you can often find better clothing/accessories than at Walmart/KMart/Target..and there is no stigma for shopping at resale shops/flea markets/yard sales.
.......f) PAY OFF YOUR VEHICLES (if you can) and figure out exactly what those extra cars are costing you. You have to consider insurance, gasoline, repairs, tires, finance charges.. the whole enchilada
.......g) Take a hard look at the secondary income job (usually the wife's). What are you actually getting to KEEP from that job, after the daycare costs, lunches at work, extra car expenses, extra costs associated with the job, and any income tax implications. Now figure out if it's actually worth the trouble. remember that you only get to spend what's left over, and often that part-time job ends up costing the family money in the long run.
......h) Start saying "We cannot afford that" to your kids. SHOW them the family budget and make them a part of the financial team.
......i) Cancel magazine subscriptions.. (Most probably don't even get read..or when family asks what you want for your birthday/xmas/etc , let THEM subscribe to your favorite magazine as your gift
.....j) When you eat out, go early and use coupons for meals if you get them

4. Maintain your appliances, cars & equipment. An annual "check-up" is cheaper than a complete breakdown.

5. Network and barter casually

.....a) Everyone has a special skill, so trade services within your group. (be careful how you do this, because the IRS is "interested" in bartering .)..
......b) When you buy something pricey, show them cash and ask for a cash discount
......c) Shop in your community, with privately owned businesses, if you can. Often they deliver free and are eager to please you
......d) Ask your friends for referrals for things you need done (if you cannot do them yourself).
......e) If you have young kids, set up an "exchange" with other families..for clothes & toys.
......f) Set up or join a babysitting co-op (It's easy, fun and it's FREE babysitting (as in no money paid..just your time)

6. Consider "shared-housing" . If you are an empty-nester with a big house, you could "rent a room" to a single who cannot afford the high cost of an apartment..or you could incorporate a parent/grandparent into your home (cue fingernails on a chalkboard here)..but if it's the difference between losing your home or keeping it, you may need to consider this

7. Energy use can be cut down

....a) Obviously the new lightbulbs help, but there are other things you can do.
.....b) Do laundry & dishes at off-peak times
.....c) Close off registers in unused rooms
.....d) Set the turn-off timers on tvs incase you fall asleep
....e) Replace washers in faucets so they don't drip
.....f) Plan your shopping /errands in a circular trip.
.....g) Make sure your car has a locking gas cap


I've droned on long enough, but let me tell you, that when a REAL recession hits, and hits hard, many families will be hit hard. Most young folks have never experienced wage-freezes or 15% mortgage loans .. But when WE endured those things, there were no killer health care premiums or $25K cars or all the extra expenses we have today.

Start now and if it doesn't come to pass, you might only end up with a savings account & some good habits.. Wait too long, and you might be homeless and broke.
Read entry | Discuss (298 comments) | Remove from Journal | Add/Edit intro

...............................................................


Taking back control over your food.

Posted by SoCalDem in General Discussion

Sun May 06th 2007, 02:17 PM

I know it sounds impossible, but every little bit you do CAN help.

Many people under 40 have been raised on "fast-food" or "packaged-mixes" or "frankenfoods".

The franken-foods are harder to eliminate since the very essence of them has been manipulated at the start, but there's a LOT you can do about the others.

NUMBER ONE:.. Ignore all the glitzy ads on tv and in magazines/papers

NUMBER TWO:... Stop buying the prepared stuff

NUMBER THREE:... Invest in some old cookbooks (used book stores/flea markets/estate sales..or even online)

NUMBER FOUR:...Buy a decent food processor

NUMBER FIVE:... PURGE your cupboards and freezer of all the "combination foods".

NUMBER SIX:...Learn how to cook..(It's not rocket science, and once you get the hang of it, it actually takes less time than you would think.

NUMBER SEVEN:.. Make your OWN "frozen dinners" for times when you don't want to cook.

NUMBER EIGHT:... Plant a garden and let your kids help..Anti-veggie kids will probably eat "their" own veggies..(Mine did)

NUMBER NINE:... Buy good spices

NUMBER TEN :... Make your OWN cake mixes, pancake mixes, baking mixes (HP Make-A-Mix Cookbooks are wonderful)

Modern people think they have no time to "cook from scratch", but it's not that hard and it takes less time than one thinks.

It's not a cheap as buying $1 Banquet frozen dinners or 2/$5 Dominos Pizza, but it's a lot better for you, and so-called convenience foods are LOADED with salt and artificial flavors.

Look for canned foods that have the FEWEST "ingredients".. Choose the no salt added, if you can.. Choose UNSWEETENED when you buy canned fruits.

Buy local and buy local in-season when possible.

Unsweetened iced tea made from water & teabags is better for you than soft drinks & adulterated juices. (My own kids did not have their first taste of soda pop or koolaid until they were school age, and they still prefer unsweetened iced tea as adults.

There are many things you can make on your own that are so cheap, you cannot imagine. You probably just never tried, and don;t even know it.

Here are a few family "specials" that we have always loved..and are super fast too

Left over rice, a little chopped ham, sliced green onions, julienned carrots, a little soy sacue and some other veggies and you have instant stir fry

Peel an apple, core it, split it almost to the bottom (in fourths)..sprinkle a little cinnamon on it and zap it in the microwave (covered)..serve with a dollop of vanilla ice cream or whipped cream

Light frosting for a cake.. whipped cream with mooshed frozen strawberries blended in.. (sweetened with real sugar)

Make your own cookies.. (just about any ole recipe will yield more cookies and there's no comparison on taste)

MOST of the prepared foods actually started with a "real" recipe that has just been adulterated to accomodate the middlemen... not the comsumer.

Salad dressings take about 10 seconds to make..

If you have a breadmaker, and then buy the "mixes", you are still getting the "add-ins" from the corporate food companies.

Get a nice breadboard, and assemble the dough yourself from the basics.

If the box-mixes end up staying on grocers' shelves instead of in grocery carts, they WILL change . As long as people keep buying the stuff, it will elbow out more healthy stuff..

To us oldies, these tips are second-nature, and I am not trying to be "preachy", but I know there are busy people out there who just never took the time, or had parents who taught them to cook.

Commercials have been selling us "fast & easy" for so long that many people actually believe them.

That's a myth that needs busting..in a big way..


Read entry | Discuss (223 comments) | Remove from Journal | Add/Edit intro

...................................................................


"Oldsters" advice to the young ones.

Posted by SoCalDem in General Discussion

Wed Jan 16th 2008, 03:16 PM

Every young person I have ever known (myself included), has a tendency to think that "everything will work out", and that they have "all the time in the world" .

It won't
You don't

This is the advice we gave our own..(add your own pearls of wisdom)

1. Get good grades and apply for EVERY scholarship you can.. even the small ones add up.

It sucks to be studying when all your buds are out there having fun, but in 10 years you will probably have to struggle to even remember some of their names, but the grades you get NOW, can help you have a chance at a better future, and all the good things that go along with it.

2. If your family can afford it, do NOT get a shitty little job while you are in school. School IS a job.. the MOST important job you can have, as a young person.

You will NEVER get a chance to go back to high school as a teenager, and those years are too important to waste as you rush from school to job. Employers are notoriously harsh with youngsters too, and often make more demands on their time than they should. The "stuff" you would buy with the "extra" money is not worth the effort it might take you , and you'll only find MORE stuff to buy. Once you are on the merry-go-round, it's hard to get off.

3. Find something you LOVE to do..even if it sounds silly. Careers and wealth often come from the things you love to do. There are careers in all kind of things. Kids get hung up on the "glamour" jobs...professional sports, fashion..dance..acting..music..

Everything you come into contact in your daily life was invented by SOMEONE.. Give yourself the time to open your mind to all possibilities.. Cultivate your interests, and learn all you can about them.

4. NEVER borrow money, if you can avoid it. You may need to borrow money for school or for a car, but DO NOT GET CREDIT CARDS.
(one caveat:..It's not a bad idea to get ONE card, that you can use for car rentals or a true emergency, but do not "shop" with it.. use it only enough to keep it in force..and pay it in full EVERY MONTH)

Once you have that slender little genie in your wallet, you WILL use it. Everyone I ever knew with credit problems, planned to "only use them in case of an emergency". Once you get a "balance" going, a sense of futility sets in and you end up spending even more, since you probably can never catch up anyway.

5. Do not get "car crazy". Advertisers know all the buttons to push, to make you want that shiny new hunk of aluminum & plastic, but a decent used car, will always be a better deal. If you want to impress someone, borrow or rent a car for the special occasion. (see #4)

6. If you plan to buy a home, start saving early. Open a "House savings account", and even if you only put $20 a week into it, you will have started saving for your down payment. If you start this at 20, by the time you are 30, you would have $11,932.68 (3% interest compounded quarterly).

7. Rent the crappiest/cheapest place you can stand..and have roommates to defray the cost. RESIST THE TEMPTATION TO SHARE WITH A GIRLFRIEND/BOYFRIEND. It's hard to negotiate monetary details of living, with a loved one.

8. Learn to cook, and try not to eat a lot of junk-food. This is especially important if you have crappy or no health insurance. Even when prices at the grocery store are high, it;s still better for you and cheaper to cook your own food.

9. Do not marry someone with loads of debt. When you marry them, those payments become YOUR payments too, since they come out of the combined family budget. Couples fight about money more than anything else, so why ask for trouble. You cannot "borrow" your way out of debt, so consolidating debts rarely helps.

10. Get life insurance when you are YOUNG. Have it automatically deducted from your bank account. People pooh-pooh whole life policies, but if you can lock in a low rate, someday when you are old and sick, you will thank your lucky stars that you did it. When you are in your 50's and find that your health problems make it too expensive to buy, you will be wishing you had bought that insurance when you were young and healthy. Having a paid-up life insurance policy is something you can even borrow from in a dire emergency, and at least you will have your "final expenses "covered" ... If you are single, put your parents down as beneficiaries, and when you marry & have kids, you can easily change the beneficiaries with a phone call.


11. When you are building your career, be flexible, and ready to move to better jobs, in different places. Stay as unburdened by "stuff & entanglements" as possible. If you get a chance for a promotion, that involves a move, you don't want to have to sell a house, or convince a "homebody" girlfriend. Opportunities do not often repeat themselves. the things you DON'T take advantage of, will eat away at you forever. You have to be ready to DO the "what if"s.

12. Babies NEVER make a bad situation better, and sometimes they even make a good situation worse. It's never a good reason to have a baby just because everyone else is having kids. Have a kid when you cannot stand the idea of NOT having one. When you are in a stable relationship, and your finances are in good shape, and you are ready to give that baby 150% of your love & effort.. that's when you need a baby.

13. Buy LESS house than you want....for a little money as you can .. ALWAYS get a 30yr FIXED rate (with PITI) and pay extra every month.

Consider your commute to work when you do buy a house. If you spend 14 hrs a day AWAY from home, and you spend every extra dime on gas to get to and from work, you might be better off with a crappier house, closer to where you work... or a job that may pay less, closer to where you want to live. If you only have yard work on your days off, and house repairs in every spare moment, you will not get much enjoyment from your house.

Consider your house, as a place to live..not as an investment. Houses do not always sell for more than you paid...and just because you worked hard to get it fixed up, you may not recoup your expenses.

14. Do NOT remove the equity in your house. It may sound tempting, but when you are young, you cannot grasp the fact that someday you will be in your 50's, and having a house that's paid off, is worth a lot more then, than that new car now...or that vacation...or that boat..

15. If you find yourself with "extra money", buy small pieces of land in an undeveloped area near you. They "aren't making any more land", and every place we have ever lived, has grown , and having an asset you can sell , is never a bad idea.

16. Take a vacation every year..even if it's a short local trip. Save for it in advance, and don't overspend.

17. Take lots of pictures. You can never go back and take a picture of your 4 yr old, once he/she's 15.


Read entry | Discuss (36 comments) | Remove from Journal | Add/Edit intro

[Salmonslayer]

54. Great post SoCal n/t

[MineralMan]

87. More excellent information and advice.

[SoCalDem]

94. from 2007, but then we nervoous nellies knew, didn't we?

It's sad that we were right, but....

[MineralMan]

96. Well, 2007 through 2009 were tough years for me. I finally hung

my shingle up again, and am now back doing what I do best. The principles I have always followed are working again, and I'm back making money again. I don't know how long I'll be doing it, but I'm busy and happy, so who cares?

[Manifestor_of_Light]

123. If your food processor is big enough, you don't need the bread maker.

I have a 1982 model Cuisinart which is medium sized. It holds six cups of flour which is enough for a loaf of bread. It has a real heavy motor.

Mix up the liquid, the yeast, add the flour, mix till the dough forms a ball and rolls around on top of the blade....take it out and put it in a bowl and let it rise, punch down and let rise again in the loaf pan, bake....lots better than storebought!!

Dinky food processors are only good for chopping nuts and veggies, not making a whole dish.

[DesertFlower]

56. more advise.

use coupons. my mom used to say if you don't use them it's like throwing money away.

you can sign up on-line with Boston Market, aveeno and other companies. they will e-mail you with specials and coupons. labor day weekend and xmas weekend boston market had coupons for 1/2 off the family meals. we got it on labor day. got the family meal for 3. cost us $9.00 and we got 2 meals out of it. i e-mailed the coupon to my granddaughter who also used it.

when we eat out we go for a late lunch or early dinner. most restaurants have lunch specials which are about half of the dinner prices. some places will not tell you about it. red lobster has lunch till 3pm and 4 pm on weekends, but if you don't ask for the lunch menu they will give you the dinner one. same thing with the olive garden.

join netflix. i haven't been inside a movie theater since 1975. lol

[Lex]

58. If you buy a house, try to have it paid off before your retirement years.

Heading into your retirement years with a mortgage to service is not a good plan, generally speaking.

[MineralMan]

83. Definitely. Not having a house payment when you retire is like

extra income. I feel very fortunate to be in that situation.

[safeinOhio]

121. I'm retired and just bought a house 2 years ago

with the money the ex didn't get. My advice is get a pre-nupt.

[B Calm]

132. The only thing I would add, try to pay it off many years before

you retire. Double the payments if you can. Pay down the principal, not the interest.

[hfojvt]

59. the first two are bad advice in my experience

As I said above, the first one sound like the myth of the 'successful'. Like my department head said people should always go the extra mile. Seven years of doing that has netted me precisely diddly squat. Being in business for myself meant seven years of seventy hour weeks for basically no money.


In my own life, I have mostly done without automobiles. I am not sure I would recommend it though.

[MineralMan]

95. Not every job is a good one. The advantage of being young is

that you can move to a new one, unless you have saddled yourself with responsibilities that require you to stay in a dead-end job with a lousy company.

It's important to constantly assess the place where you work. If it looks like your efforts will not lead to improvement of your position, well, you were looking for a job when you found that one. Look again.

It's a terrible shame when someone with talent and perseverance stays in a place that stifles or fails to reward those qualities. However long it takes, a person can move to a different place to work.

For me, the answer was to begin working for myself and it took a couple of years before I was back to where I was when I started. But, after that, I had my independence and my success was based solely on my ability to outperform my competition in the work I did. That is how to get out of the cycle. It's not easy, but it's possible.

I did great work and never...not once...missed a deadline. That was the key.

[hfojvt]

135. I am not young

I am 48 and my experience of not being rewarded for excellence has been true for all of my employers from 1993 through today. Of course, I did not even want to advance at the satellite dish factory. I just considered that as a temporary job until my business took off. I was originally thinking 8 months, but I was there for two years. Then I went to part-time and then there was a mass lay-off (on my birthday, ironically enough). At some point they were re-hiring and I realized that my business was still not supporting me, so I contacted them. I ran drill-presses there. I looked at the numbers for the two people they had on 2nd shift (one of which I had trained) and they did 1400 or 1500 for the night. That was with two people, and I know, and they should have known, that I could do 1200 all by myself. My personal best was 1332 (a number I shot for on purpose).

They had no interest in re-hiring me. The mediocrity of 700-750 per person was preferred over 1200 per person. Go figure.

Then there was the bar. I worked as a part-time janitor from May 1996 until August of 1997. My wage was $5.50 an hour for that entire time. Often I worked 7 days a week because they could not find somebody for the even lousier job of working two days a week so I could have a day off. I only got a raise because I got a job at the auto parts factory for $7.15 an hour and then gave one week's notice. The bar owner offered me $7.15 an hour to stay because he could not find anybody to do my job for lower cost.

Then there was Kraft foods. I worked there as a temp for three years. Learned every part of packaging from sleever machines to casepackers to northfields to palletizers. Applied there 3 times and watched them hire people based on who they knew and whose butt they kissed. Had nothing to do with quality of work. Once when things were slow and my line was not running (I worked on the million dollar bosch line, or line 8 where lines 1-7 were called 'old country') the supervisor wanted to send me home while they trained a new temp in old country (on a job I already knew how to do, since I learned old country during slow times, just to make myself valuable). I made the 12 mile commute to work on a snowy day when a bunch of their workers with benefits called in a 'snow day'. Finally after about two years of their crap, I decided to take revenge.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/hfojvt/12

But that's making a short story long. I just have not seen any reward for excellence - anywhere.

[hunter]

61. You forgot "Don't get sick or have a bad accident. Choose parents with good genes. Be lucky."

If we were Canadians my wife and I would be millionaires. It would have been a very wise financial decision for us to emigrate when we were young newlyweds, before we had kids. We were well qualified on the Canadian point system.

Instead we stayed here and we now pay more for health care than we do on our mortgage. But at least we have a mortgage. We have no savings anymore and not much retirement because medical bills ate all of that up, and neither one of us can buy private health insurance at any price, but what the heck, that's how I learned not to care about money. There's a lot of freedom in that, more than most people will ever know.

I suspect in this modern USA very few people will make it to retirement with their savings and investments intact, or even a paid off mortgage. The fleecing of the middle class has already begun.

[noamnety]

76. +100. Step 1: be lucky

"Buy a house in your 20's" often starts with "have parents who have savings, who can help you pay for college, who can loan you a downpayment, use that money your grandmother left you for a down payment."

[HughBeaumont]

141. I suspect you'd like my journal entry on this very subject -

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/HughBeaumont/102

I was reading through the OP myself and while parts of it were practical, other points completely depend on one's luck in life. He lived during a time when America's cost of living also came with a wage that could somewhat keep up with it, in addition to job security, pensions, affordable college and health care. That definitely hasn't been the case for 15 years now. All of the wealth has been privatized and all of the risk and loss has been passed down to US.

[hunter]

155. Your journal entry is most appropriate in this thread. Thank you.

Here in the USA we are very well trained to blame the victims of our society's viciousness and cruelty.

[JerseygirlCT]

62. Excellent, excellent advice.

I completely agree.

I'd add that working on being grateful, consciously grateful, is a good way to be happy.

[CTyankee]

63. One omission: MAKE A BUDGET

Literally list your income,then list your expenses. They should come out even.

Don't like the idea of a "budget"? Ok, call it a "spending plan."

The good news is that once you do this you see places where it will be blindingly clear that you can cut, such as interest on credit cards. Put the letter D next to anything discretionary so you know that's where you can cut if need be. Put an F on anything Fixed.

Keep updating as things change.

I will guarantee you that you will feel wonderful about having a budget, not bad at all. You will feel in control because you can actually SEE where your money goes. If you use a pie chart format, which I like, you can graphically see if your spending is out of whack -- e.g. the money you spend on eating out or clothes -- and it gives you incentive to get it back into line. It also helps you prioritize what you REALLY want! Besides, if you are going to buy a house, figuring in your monthly payments really helps you going forward.

When I did this many years ago I wrote down everything I spent money on. Something from the office vending machine, magazine subs, having drinks with friends, movies.

This is SO SIMPLE and anyone can do it. Software helps but I started out with a yellow lined legal pad! I drew a line down the middle, one side for income, the other for expenses. You don't need software unless you want to see the percentages (but I used to do that with a pencil and paper which is pretty easy if you can divide one number into another! And I was a Fine Arts Major!).

That's all I can add. Good job, MineralMan!

[MineralMan]

84. Very good point. I guess I took that for granted, since the kind

of saving and planning pretty much requires having and keeping a tight budget. My first wife and I lived in really crappy surroundings as we saved for our first house, which needed an incredible amount of work. The first thing I had to do was replace the roofing. I had never done anything like that, but the instructions were right on the packages of asphalt shingles. So, I did it, and saved a lot on the job. The same thing applied to every repair and improvement on that house. There wasn't a weekend for two years that I was not working 12 hours a day fixing that house and improving it. It all paid off in significant sweat equity. After those two years, it was worth twice what we paid for it. When my current wife and I sold it, we bought a house in St. Paul, MN that was twice as big for half what that house in California sold for. It was one of the reasons we decided to move, along with a desire to help her parents, who were in their late 70s and early 80s.

The same thing still works today. The foreclosed house that needs lots of work is the first step toward building that sweat equity. Anyone can learn the skill needed to do home repairs and the like. There are dozens of books and DVDs to teach you.

[CTyankee]

93. Great advice for people who have this ability. Unfortunately, my husband and I did not.

We were both liberal arts majors! So we have to budget and save and watch expenses. It all works out in the end. I'm doing well on my investment income and so is husband. So far so good but we'll see...

[MineralMan]

100. Both I and my first and second wife are all English Majors.

I spent much of my working life writing magazine articles on everything from home repair and choosing tennis shoes to science reporting and computer topics., and that's what my wife still does. I've also been a computer programmer and owned a tiny software company, a mineralogist who sold mineral specimens to collectors, and now a website content specialist. I learned all those things myself, without additional education at schools.

Being a Liberal Arts major is a great foundation from which to expand your learning. Never stop learning and you'll never be limited in what you can do.

If you are capable of getting a degree in the Liberal Arts, you are capable of learning anything you want to learn.

[CTyankee]

103. Both of us have two left thumbs or whatever the saying is.

We can't figure out our DVD player consistently. It's a problem.

Some people are handy. Some people are not. It is just the way it is, I guess. I can't figure out lots of things but I can deconstruct a poem by Emily Dickinson for you and lots of people don't get through reading her poetry's first line!

[etherealtruth]

64. Not just good advice for the young

This is good advice for everyone.

[DemoTex]

70. DemoTex's (a 61 year-old whipper-snapper) Living Advice:

1. Copy MineralMan's 16-item list.

2. Paste into document and save.

3. Print document.

4. Frame.

5. Place in very conspicuous place and read every day.

[HughMoran]

71. Good advice for all

I've lived by most of these principals my entire adult life too.

[Bonobo]

75. Excellent advice. k/r n/t

[MissDeeds]

78. Wonderful goals

Thanks for sharing them, MineralMan.

:hug:

[slipslidingaway]

79. Some great advice - knr nt

[EmeraldCityGrl]

85. If every young person followed

this advice, how sweet life would be.

[cornermouse]

90. Flip side otherwise known as reality.

1. Employers may say they want excellence, but reality is that speed with or without mistakes is what they actually reward.
2. Being in business requires a major amount of money in the bank in addition to money for starting the business. Most people don't have that and never will no matter how hard they try.
3. Median cost of a home is, what, $150,000? $30,000 for a down payment is going to be out of reach for most 20 to early 30 year olds. If they have children, even more out of their reach.
4. 42" HDTV? Must be nice...
5. Buy a used car? That only works if you are a mechanic or can afford a mechanic. Otherwise, you could find yourself walking down the highway carrying an infant and trying to hang on to a toddler while trying to make sure none of you get hit by the cars flying past you. A boat? rofl. Yeah. Right.
6. What the heck do you call an expensive toy? I'm not sure what that is.
7. Where on the employment application do they want you to put broad knowledge? And if the broad knowledge entails going to school, how will the student loans affect #3?
8. Think exhaustion and depression combined with children. "Nuff said".

I could continue but I'll stop here. I'm glad you made it in life. You appear to be luckier than a lot of people. I hope you realize that.

[MineralMan]

97. I'll take these point-by-point.

1. Employers may say they want excellence, but reality is that speed with or without mistakes is what they actually reward.

Not all employers are the same. Not by a long shot. When you're young and starting out, move if your employer doesn't reward excellence. You must start this before you take on the big responsibilities.

2. Being in business requires a major amount of money in the bank in addition to money for starting the business. Most people don't have that and never will no matter how hard they try.

I've started three businesses, each of which I engaged in for over 3 years. All of them were bootstrapped. I never borrowed a penny for any of them. Each was started while I worked at my primary business of writing articles for publications. That one, too, never cost me a penny. Just lots of hours and building relationships. Every business earned good money for me, and most operated out of my home, until my wife, also a writer, and I moved into a suite of offices to do our writing and run our other businesses.

3. Median cost of a home is, what, $150,000? $30,000 for a down payment is going to be out of reach for most 20 to early 30 year olds. If they have children, even more out of their reach.

$5,000/year for six years. Piece of cake for anyone with a decent job. You can do it or not do it. It just takes discipline.

4. 42" HDTV? Must be nice...

$499 this week. Next month, probably $399. The 60" TV, Three times that much.

5. Buy a used car? That only works if you are a mechanic or can afford a mechanic. Otherwise, you could find yourself walking down the highway carrying an infant and trying to hang on to a toddler while trying to make sure none of you get hit by the cars flying past you. A boat? rofl. Yeah. Right.

Buy a 2 year old car, perhaps a lease return. Still under warranty. Way cheaper than a new one. As for me, I drive a 1991 Volvo 740 wagon that has not cost me a penny since I bought it four years ago. My wife drives a 1999 GMC Jimmy. It's cost a little more for repairs. Way, way cheaper than any new car would have cost. I have a boat. It's a 12' aluminum boat, with a 6 hp outboard, and a trailer. I have about $600 in it, and I fish four days a month in it. I tow it with the Volvo. It's great, and I've had it for 5 years, without spending another penny on it. If the outboard goes out, I have the skills to repair it.

6. What the heck do you call an expensive toy? I'm not sure what that is.

Snowmobile, jetski, fancy boat, motorhome, whatever. Rent 'em when you want to use them.

7. Where on the employment application do they want you to put broad knowledge? And if the broad knowledge entails going to school, how will the student loans affect #3?

It's nowhere on the application. The interview is where you insert this. Everyone goes to school. Education only begins at school. I've learned three new disciplines since I graduated from college, without going to school any further.

8. Think exhaustion and depression combined with children. "Nuff said".

Children are for after you've achieved some of the things you planned for. Me? I never had any. That was a conscious decision between my wife and I. Don't have children until you can afford them. It is that simple.

[cornermouse]

104. Reality that you apparently never had to face.

1. Employers are the same. Around here it is who you know, not what you know and there is a sizable population in the vicinity. And again, you're not looking at the reality of the current jobless recovery and associated economy.
2. Good for you. Your businesses didn't require a lot of overhead. Few of us have the writing skills it would take to be successful in the area you state you work in. Do you even realize how lucky you've been?
3. Not everyone has a decent job. What are they supposed to do or are they just there to be ignored?
4. What part of "I can't afford to buy a 42" HDTV" do you not understand?
5. Again. Not everyone can afford a 2 year old car and not everyone can afford a boat. Period.
6. I've never been in or on any of them. They are not part of my reality.
7. Again. Your reality, which I'm sure is a very nice reality, is not everyone else's.
8. Biting my tongue on the words that want to spill out all over you on this one.

You are clearly in a different socio-economic group than a lot of us. That's nice for you. Apparently not that nice for the rest of us.

[cornermouse]

136. Now that I've put a little time between me and last night.

Children. Don't have one that is going to require medicine that costs the insurance company $75,000 a year. Insurance companies don't like that and tend to do something to free themselves from the burden. Clarification before you go there as well: The $75,000 illness was not hereditary. Its that simple.

[Lars39]

157. Regarding #3: you're not factoring in student loans.

Repayment of student loans really needs to #1 priority before a house. And there aren't really a lot of jobs out there that you can get without a degree that pay anything. :(

[ProgressOnTheMove]

91. Very good advice, looks like I may just be Ok in my old age. With some great extra tips.

[BuelahWitch]

92. Number one should be changed to

"Kiss up to all the important people at work. Make sure you're one of the crowd that's invited out for drinks with the boss after work." Sorry, doing good work gets you nowhere, except cleaning up other people's messes. It's not what you know or how good you are, it's who you know.

[MineralMan]

98. If that's the case where you work, start shopping your resume.

You are incorrect. It may be as you say at some places, but certainly not at all. Do not work long at a place that is like that. You were looking for work when you found that bad job. Go find another one, then quit the bad one.

Or, do nothing and grow bitter. It's your choice.

[hunter]

99. I just unreccomended this Lake Wobegone Fantasy. It's been pissing me off all day.

Americans are trained to blame themselves when they get thrown under the bus. They certainly blame others who've been thrown under the bus.

But for every irresponsible twit who doesn't follow MineralMan's advice and ends up in the gutter there are dozens of unfortunate people who ended up bruised and broken and skidding across the pavement because they were never in any position to follow his sort of "advice." We are not all born to upper middle class or wealthy parents, we are not all born of good mental or physical health, and some of us seem to exist under the curse of sadistic fairy godmothers who will turn even the best choices we make into horrible nightmares of endurance and poisonous misfortune raining out of the sky.

Personally I've never had it too bad, even in my darkest hours. Sure I'm always just $400 a month at the pharmacy from becoming a semi-homeless sofa surfing Emergency Room Hopper, running nearly naked with bleeding bare feet, but I've got thirty years accepting that and I'm not afraid of it.

And you know what? Even the irresponsible twits among us deserve our compassion. They too are victims of a cruel heartless profit driven society as much as anyone else.

You can look at anyone, anytime, and say to yourself "There for the grace of God go I."

If you can follow MineralMan's advice, fine, you are a very fortunate person. If not, don't let it drag you down, and don't allow others to drag you down with it.

[MineralMan]

101. Well, on that note, I'm calling it a day.

[Gregorian]

109. I think you bring up a perfectly valid point.

I always read posts like yours with a sense of seriousness.

I don't think we can blame those who have for those who do not have. That is what we're fighting for on this forum. Most of us are here because we care. We want to share through the collective resources of our society. Unlike Republicans, we want to help those who weren't lucky. Or healthy. I have, today. But as I was discussing with my father today, it could be gone tomorrow. I come from a family that lost it all. Lost wealth, lost life. I could happen to anyone. I think that being selfish is a form of defense that keeps people from seeing their frailty and vulnerability. There is nothing inherently wrong with wealth. But as long as there are those without, we have a responsibility for more than just ourselves.

I don't know. Words.

[RaleighNCDUer]

134. Well said. Thank you. nt

[MineralMan]

172. I'm aware that not everyone can do all the things I listed, but

the goals are there. It's a list of ideas that make sense and that have worked for many people. Some, I haven't been able to follow, either. I did not save as I should have, to my current regret. That does not make it bad advice. I wish I had followed it better.

It is not an all or nothing list. It's a list. I'm not telling anyone what to do. I'm just offering suggestions that seem to have worked for many people. Nor am I looking down on anyone who doesn't follow my suggestions. Everyone's different and has different opportunities and hardships.

I'm not rich. Far from it. I knew from the start I wouldn't be and made the choices I made. I am, however, still happy with my choices, and am glad to have restarted my earnings again. My original plans didn't work out, due to what has happened in the economy. There it is.

I'm sorry you found reason for anger in my post. I certainly did not intend that.

[nightrain]

102. so, we'll see better behavior on your part here?

[Autonomy]

105. K&R

one of the few actually meaningful posts I've seen in a long time, on any forum.

[Retrograde]

110. Hope for the best, prepare for the worst

A good list. I'd add:

Don't expect your employer to look out for you. In addition to your own retirement account - which you should plan not to touch until you absolutely have to - as soon as you can start setting aside additional savings. Try to get six month's worth of living expenses where you can get at them in case you lose your job.

Make a realistic budget and review it regularly. Know what you need to live in the style you'd like to become accustomed to. Back in the boom days I started keeping track of everything I spent and what I spent it on. When the layoffs hit we had enough resources.

Get a good investment advisor, and/or learn enough to manage your resources. This takes time, but you'll know what you have.

Budget for the non-tangibles - both in time and money. Travel is important for me, so that gets a big piece; clothing, furniture and new toys not so much. Take some time everyday to do something for yourself, be it a walk around the neighborhood, an artistic endeavor, or just watching the world go by, if that relaxes you.

Off for my evening walk now...

[ElsewheresDaughter]

111. Things you do for yourself die with you, things you do for others...

and the world are immortal.

[earcandle]

113. Thanks for sharing your wisdom. Peace.

[customerserviceguy]

118. I'd add to that:

You can learn from mistakes, and it's always cheaper to learn from others' mistakes, rather than your own!

[pitohui]

119. one advice i'd modify: if possible NEVER be in business for yrself

if you own yr own business, you give up all benefits including paid vacation and health care, as a self employed person you MAY be able to buy private health insurance (although i, a slim nonsmoker, was refused for 15 yrs for reasons that are obscure to me) but once you are age 45 as a woman or age 50 as a man, no, in most states, you will not be able to provide health care for yrself or your family

unless something really changes in this country, it is stupid and irresponsible to work for yourself if there's any possible way you can work for a corporation and get a guaranteed paycheck, health care, vacation time, etc.

the american dream/fantasy of being self-employed is a nightmare, i would never ever advise anyone who ever had another choice to take this path

most small businesses either go bankrupt with/in five years or they provide a bare, miserable living, you are NOT going to be the one person in 1000 who beats the odds and becomes a bazillionaire -- and if you think you're going to beat the odds by owning a restaurant just buy a gunb and shoot yourself now and save yourself and everyone who knows you a lot of hell and misery

most of the advice in the OP is, to be honest, just truisms with no practical value -- when things go wrong, learn from them and do not repeat the same mistakes, thank you, captain obvious

however, my advice is hardwon in the school of hard knocks

DO NOT FALL FOR THE BULLSHIT PROPAGANDA that owning a small business is the key to wealth, it's the key to hell and most small business people that i know become ever more angry and self-hating and of course anger and self-hating makes them more fascist and conservative-- don't do that to yourself, it's pretty fucking ugly

get an education and get a REAL job w. benefits, then you can actually save $$$ and follow the rest of the advice, if you are self employed you will go thru months and at a time, years, where you're actually LOSING money to the business, so being able to save and have a retirement is something that is just not ever going to happen for you

listen to obama's advice, go to college, get educated, get a JOB...getting a small business is for those of us who have some tragedy in our lives that makes it impossible for us to get a real job

[Manifestor_of_Light]

161. May I add to that rant?

Okay, I went to college, got three degrees that were supposedly good on the job market.

I have a BA in biology and a Juris Doctor (law degree). I got a few interviews when I finished college, I heard about how they needed science teachers in the schools -- they didn't hire me, I decided that was BULL. BA never helped me get a job.

Decided to improve myself, went to law school at night for FIVE LONG YEARS while working at the courthouse as a court reporter, and typing transcripts. Unbelieveable stress due to nasty judges, nasty lawyers, jealous court reporters, and generally people with anger problems, taking it out on me when I did not do anything wrong.

Employers are intimidated by excellence. I never got a paralegal job with a law degree, a biology degree and all my court room experience. In two years of looking, with help from my law school's employment office, I got ONE interview to be a paralegal. ONE.

I got the education, but the jobs are not out there. My court reporting career died in 1994 and I was sick and tired of it and burned out completely. I hated being at work. I would go home and cry at night just from the stress, even though nobody got on my case. And that was in the 1980s, long before I got burned out.

Education does not get you anywhere anymore. I'm glad I did it for the knowledge, but the financial reward from 5 years at a private law school, and four years at a private university with very high standards, has been ZERO.

And all my millionaire lawyer "friends" who I went to law school with, who are partners in big firms and pulling down over a million a year in partnership shares, before their salary, what happened to them? Not a one of them could do anything to find me a job, just absolutely powerless. I was nice to everyone in law school and it got me nowhere.

:wtf:

Pardon my bad attitude.

[Canuckistanian]

120. Know what to kiss, when to kiss it...

And when to not kiss at all.

[Greyhound]

125. Be careful whose advice you buy, but, be patient with those who supply it.

Advice is a form of nostalgia, dispensing it is a way of fishing the past from the disposal, wiping it off, painting over the ugly parts and recycling it for more than it’s worth.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfq_A8nXMsQ

[tavalon]

126. You forgot about the sunscreen,

but overall, those are good guidelines for all of us, even us middle agers. I thought of yet another one, when it comes your time to get a colonoscopy, take all the versed they'll give you.

[Missy Vixen]

130. IMHO. Set a goal and work towards it.

MineralMan and others on this thread may disagree, but people like Susan Boyle learn that one of the things that make it worth getting out of bed in the morning is to set a goal, and go after something you desire.

Not everyone is going to end up a multi-platinum recording artist, or #1 NYT bestselling author, or Oscar-winning actress. There are people all over this country who follow a pursuit they enjoy, no matter how humble. It's up to you how much time and money you want to invest.

I am an author. I am published in non-fiction, and am actively working towards the goal of publication in fiction. I spent the first 45 years of my life doing things I was good at, but didn't necessarily enjoy. I dreamed of seeing my books for sale in the local bookstore. I still do. I work towards that goal daily, and I will achieve it.

Again, it is up to you, but I don't want to look back on my life and kick myself because I didn't have the courage to go after the things I most desired.

[OneBlueSky]

131. I'll be turning 64 this year, and I pretty much agree with your advice . . .

just a couple of things I might add . . .

- understand that what you know is dwarfed by what you don't know . . .

- laugh every day -- long and hard . . .

- don't let the bastards grind you down ("Illigitimi non carborundum") . . .

[DailyGrind51]

137. Very wise advice, indeed!

[bluecoat_fan]

138. Excellent post

[icee]

140. Best post ever, imo, mineral man. Sure beats reading all the

oohs and ahs about JLo calling Sarah Palin a name...as important as I'm sure that is. As things drift into horror in this country, you'll see more of helping, nourturing posts like yours, and less of the JLo type. Good day to you.

[cleveramerican]

144. forgive others

all I can add

[robinlynne]

145. beautiful!

[MineralMan]

171. Thanks. You're very kind to say that.

[WilmywoodNCparalegal]

146. I have a different take

I didn't grow up privileged and my parents were in their early 20s when I was born. Many times, I had pasta with butter (what Italians think of as 'poor people food') because my dad was working for an employer that didn't pay him and eventually went bankrupt.

Now that my parents are in a much better financial shape and I am a grown adult, my advice is a bit different. I agree in principle with always excelling at whatever job -whether it's McDonald's or Microsoft. I want to add the following:

-don't be afraid to take a job 'beneath you' because that will teach you that (1) there's no such thing and (2) it's a job, something other people would love to have in your place.

For me, I'm 37, nearly 38, and childless. I have no intention of buying a home. I like to enjoy life in the present, not save for a day when I may be incapacitated to do so. I encourage everyone to travel, travel and then travel some more. Live abroad (as was mentioned), if possible, for some time.

I like renting because I am flexible to move anywhere in the world without having to worry about resale value or dealing with realtors. I also like that I can afford to live in places (such as by the beach) where I could never live if I had to buy.

If I will ever have a child, obviously I will curtail my travel ambitions. But for now, I enjoy having the ability to plan a trip somewhere and paying for it little by little.

Carpe Diem is my best advice - seize the day. I've met too many people who lived miserly and saved every little penny and then, by the time they retired or could enjoy their savings, they were too ill or incapacitated or deceased.

I don't believe there is life after death; this is all we get in this world. And I'd like to savor it as if each day will be my last. This also means being kind to other people and showing love to people I hold dear, to indulge in my passions of college basketball and reading and, of course, DU.

To each his/her own. I know this is not advice that most people would or should follow. It's just what works for me.

[Sal Minella]

163. The ant and the grasshopper -- each looking askance at the other

for his foolishness.

I think any set of thought-through principles that doesn't hurt anyone else is the set to live by.

i.e. I have NO TV and wouldn't have one of the pesky things in my house.

What a great thread.

[Cetacea]

151. 17. Don 't vote for moderate democrats.

Sorry. Great post.

[AtheistCrusader]

154. Sunday is Chore day.

My sunday consisted of:

1. Taking the recycling and garbage to the dump. I don't pay for home garbage service (though that may not be an option for some of you, since in some cities, garbage and sewer are required and on the same bill. Move) I spend about $15 every two months on garbage doing this.
2. Taking all the used motor oil to Shucks for recycling. I maintain my own vehicles.
3. Spent about 2 hours working on my bikes. Charge up the lights.
4. Turned in mulch in the garden patch. Get it all nice and mixed in well before spring. (Ground is thawed)

[madmax]

156. Most EXcellent!

At 60 I agree with all that MineralMan wrote. For you youngin's this is a 'Handbook for Living'.

Last year I developed some serious health issues so I'd like to add - don't put off doing something you'd like do to for 'someday' or 'when I have time'. You never know...

Love you MineralMan - this post brought tears to my eyes, happy tears. :hug:

[MineralMan]

168. Thanks so much.

I hope your health issues resolve well for you. You're right. We never know what we will encounter. The best laid plans, etc...

[FarLeftFist]

164. Quite possibly greater than the bible. Thanks.

recced.

[h9socialist]

165. Well, I'm 55 and . . .

. . . I am amazed that there was nothing said about "brushing after every meal" or "washing behind your ears."

[MineralMan]

169. I don't know about washing behind your ears, but I can

tell you that caring for your teeth is a really big deal. I'm missing three of mine now, and wish I had them back.

[hunter]

174. Hunter's addendum to MineralMan's post...

1. Strive for excellence in whatever work you do. Excellence rises, while mere adequacy sinks.

2. If possible, take the initiative and be in business for yourself.

(1. & 2.) Pursue your dreams. Pay for your own dinner.

3. Buy a modest home in your 20s or early 30s with at least 20% down and pay it off as soon as you possibly can. Do not borrow on this home. Ever. If you need to move, sell it and put the entire equity in the new home. Pay that one off as well, as soon as you can. It is your home, not an investment opportunity.

Cultivate friendships and family relationships. You'll always have a place to sleep in times of misfortune. In times of good fortune be hospitable to those down on their luck.

4. Be moderate in your acquisitions of material goods. The 42" HDTV may well be more than adequate. The 60" TV is probably overkill.

Don't buy stuff. It's bad for the earth. Stuff will keep accumulating until it makes you unhappy. Live lighltly, make good memories. You can carry these good memories wherever you may go and they will make the burdens and obligations you carry much lighter.

5. Consider buying good, used automobiles, boats, and other such transportation items. Let someone else absorb the early depreciation.

Try to live without a car. Walking is good for your body and mind. Cars are smelly, dangerous, expensive, and bad for the earth. Cars will shorten your life. Walking will lengthen it.

6. Beware of buying expensive toys you will end up not using. Rent them when you need them, instead.

Don't buy expensive toys. You don't need them. Maybe travel instead.


7. Continue learning throughout your life. Broad knowledge in several areas will benefit you in many ways. Read widely.

This one I agree with wholeheartedly. Exercise your mind and it will become stronger and last longer.

8. If possible, do things yourself. You can learn to do almost anything and save large sums by doing many things for yourself, rather than paying someone else to do them.

There is great satisfaction in doing things yourself. You will also achieve greater respect for people who do those things as their employment.

9. Save as much money as you possibly can without becoming Scrooge-like. Do not put these savings into high-risk investments, but opt for secure growth and the safety of your capital.

It's never about the money, it's what you do with the money. If your goal is to make money you have no goal.

10. Eat a healthy diet and avoid habits that are harmful to your health.

If you are addicted to junk food, drugs, alcohol, etc., seek the help and encouragement of others who understand and share your own experience. It's not easy to quit on your own.

11. Be generous with your contributions to charitable organizations, whether they are money or time. This will feed your soul.

Be generous and share your blessings with others. That's really all you need to say.

12. In business and in your personal life, treat every person you encounter with honesty, courtesy, kindness, forbearance, and respect. If you have enemies, avoid them as much as possible, and maintain your principles in all dealings with them.

Love your enemies and maintain your own integrity. It probably won't make your enemy your friend, but it will certainly bring you to a better understanding of your enemy.

13. Be slow with anger and dissatisfaction in your life. Roll with the punches and maintain your balance at all times. Accept what you have no power to alter, but work to improve the society around you as far as is possible.

Your angers and dissatisfactions are your own, you make them, you feed them. If you are angry and dissatisfied move to a place or make a place where you are not angry and dissatisfied.

14. Consider carefully before giving your word to do something, since you must fulfill what you have committed yourself to do. Be faithful to your word always, since you are the one most damaged when you fail to keep your word.

Conversely, don't demand commitments from others that you wouldn't demand of yourself or you don't expect they will be able to keep. Don't demand commitment for inconsequential or impossible tasks. Our expectations of others must always be reasonable and rational.

15. In important relationships, like family, do not put your desires above the needs of others, but treat them as no more than equal to others' needs.

However, do put your own needs first, with the understanding there is a very significant difference between need and desire. Our needs are few, our desires many. If we don't provide for our own needs, we can't provide for the needs of others.

16. When things go wrong, learn from them and do not repeat the same mistakes that led to the failure.

Every choice we humans make seems to be the best choice when we make it. Even that homeless alcoholic with esophageal varices bleeding out in the Emergency Room got to that place following a path of what he thought were "the best" choices, even if it was an endless string of bad choices only visible to him in hindsight. Start with the moment and move forward, you can't change the past. This is why we must forgive ourselves, forgive others, and have compassion for all.