Well how's about that.... New Orleans, is now all right....

[WCGreen]

Never mind that there are still thousands of displaced people, miles of destroyed neighborhoods lurking right beyond the boundaries of the stadium parking lot...

As long as rich folk can feel good about themselves, well, then there really is nothing to worry about anymore...

Look I am a football fan and realize that the games are important to the psyche of those who otherwise feel horrible about their pitiful lives, that people love to live vicariously through the gestations of highly toned bodies, that everything else goes out the door in the delirium of the moment...

But that really only goes so far.

To say that a city that was pretty close to being wiped off the map is back because of a football game is, well, hyperbole to the nth degree...

The comparisons to Rome have always been made with Pax Americana.

Today in New Orleans that comparison came right at us live and direct from ground zero Katrina.

Just remember that 5 1/2 years or so ago, people were wallowing literally in their own shit, right there where they kicked the winning field goal.

Excuse me if my jubilation is somewhat muted.

[Captain Hilts]

1. They love football and this will redirect the nation's attention on what needs to be done. nt

[RB TexLa]

2. No, no, no, poor people don't care about football. It's only discussed at country clubs

and executive board rooms. You'd never hear it mentioned in any working class bar or in any poor person's home. :crazy:

[WCGreen]

4. You missed the point...

The owner of the franchise was proclaiming that New Orleans was back now that they were going to the Super Bowl...

How hard was that to grasp?

[RB TexLa]

7. The owner of the Saints is from San Antonio, nothing he says has anything to do with New

Orleans. Are you being serious? Really?

[WCGreen]

13. He owns the team...

I have no idea nor do I care where he lives, to stand up there and say that New Orleans is back because of a football game is, to me, and I am being very serious, ludicrous.

[RB TexLa]

16. And no one in Louisiana or New Orleans even hears Tom Benson speak. He's so ignored you don't

even have to ignore him. If you hadn't mentioned him I would not have known that he spoke. I saw him but nothing he says means anything.

[WCGreen]

31. But the rest of the country saw him....

[RB TexLa]

36. The rest of the country couldn't care if Louisianians live or die.

[WCGreen]

45. I don't believe that is true...

All though it is not always apparent.

[TxRider]

8. Idiots will be idiots

But if it gets any media at all to come in and put a spotlight on just how much of N.O. is not back it can only help.

[Rick Myers]

28. Agreed, WCGreen!!!

[WCGreen]

5. Yea, sure....

Taht'll happen.

[Captain Hilts]

10. I've already seen some stories on this issue. nt

[Wickerman]

3. Ironically, my local PBS played Jezabel (1938) this afternoon

"Have you any idea what would happen in New Orleans now if folks got to thinkin' there was one law for the rich and another for the poor?"

[bobbolink]

29. Wow... that quote is a keeper... Thanks!

:yourock: Thanks for typing that in for us!

[WCGreen]

30. I missed that on my first trip through the thread....

Great quote...

[Johonny]

6. How did Mrs things are working out ok for them Bush

get an invite to the game? Talk about a disgrace.

[Captain Hilts]

12. I was disgusted too. nt

[KamaAina]

66. Benson probably invited them

he's a big-time repuke (as are most pro sports owners).

[LuvNewcastle]

9. The Saints' performance this year is

one of the few positive things New Orleans has had to talk about in years. They needed this.

[Captain Hilts]

11. Yes, they did. nt

[WCGreen]

15. I live in depressing, dreary Cleveland and sure to win a big game

is great for the moment, but reality sinks in real quick.

My point is that the owner of the team yammering on that New Orleans is back because of this win is disingenuous at best.

[pitohui]

14. you have no idea what this game means to new orleans

football is not abt tom benson or a few rich dudes, in new orleans it is truly a story of how after decades of being crapped on by god, no matter how hard we tried and no matter how good our players were (think archie manning and the dynasty he started, we have always had GOOD players but somehow we always got fucked by fate)...this means soo much

not just financially for the city altho of course it's good financially but emotionally

it is not abt rich and poor, it is about having a TEAM

it is abt "this guy can't kick, this guy had problems w. drugs and got suspended" and now "this guy" comes back and kicks and puts us in the superbowl

it's about redemption, it's about america, it's about how ANYONE can make a comeback

don't shit on this

my jubilation is not muted

[tammywammy]

18. +1 Great Post. n/t

[WCGreen]

20. I do know how good winning feels when every thing else is going wrong...

the Cleveland Indians fantastic run in the mid to late 90's, going to the World Series twice really put s zing in the steps of most Clevelanders...

But the cold hard fact is that sustained winning, those huge crowds did little to revitalize my city...

[emilyg]

37. This Falcon fan understands.

[musette_sf]

55. + 1

[Terra Alta]

17. This is good for New Orleans.

Saints fans are very loyal and passionate. Look how hard they fought when the owner toyed with the idea of permanently moving the team to San Antonio after Katrina.

New Orleans deserves this win, hopefully they will go on to win the Super Bowl in two weeks.

Why rain on their parade? :shrug:

[tammywammy]

19. "Why rain on their parade?"

Cause this is DU and someone has to always shit on anything considered good news.

[WCGreen]

21. If you can't make a point when such a stark dichotomy presents itself...

what's the point of rhetoric7

I'm happy for the folks down there, glad they have a diversion, but to have the owner declare that New Orleans is back just strikes me as wrong...

[WolverineDG]

69. +1 nt

[midnight]

22. K&R.

[darkstar]

23. and my ignore list grows

[WCGreen]

24. funny, I have not one person on ignore....

[FarCenter]

25. The NFL couldn't pass up the "feel good" story, so they fixed the officiating

Inside the pylon, my ass.

[WCGreen]

32. That was shaky...

I really enjoyed the game...

I was pulling for Bret, he is the last player that is even close to my age...

[Foo Fighter]

26. Apparently you didn't get the memo because, as everybody knows

if the the team wins, EVERYBODY wins. Well, except for those that don't.

I live in MN and I have to admit I'm REALLY glad the Saints won but my reasons are mostly selfish. I'm happy to see the Saints win after all their city has been through and am hoping their victory can somehow bring about some economic revitalization to their city. However, I doubt that will happen in the scale it needs to happen. In the meantime (here comes the selfish part), a Saints Victory might hopefully be a nail in the coffin to the public handout for funding of a new Vikes Stadium. They might get it anyway because hey, funneling money from the poor to the rich is pretty much SOP for America these days but it's not something I agree with and/or will suppport. If a Saints victory can somehow prevent the rich bastard Vikes owner Zygi from raiding the pockets of the poor in MN, more power to them! Go Saints!

[EFerrari]

27. That's about the best user name I've seen in five years.

On the other hand, nobody has shown up as Floaty.

lol

Welcome to DU!

[Foo Fighter]

68. Thanks! n/t

[FarCenter]

33. Does the proposed Viking stadium have a dome?

Or is it going to be open air, like the baseball stadium? And the U of M stadium?

[Foo Fighter]

72. I'm not really sure.

There have been a number of proposals batted around over the past 10 years or so so I'm not sure what the current proposal(s) look like. My guess is it would have a retractable roof though because that's generally been one of the big selling points.

The open air Twins Stadium located next to the county garbage incinerator was a real swell idea. ;) As for TCF stadium (yes, the u stadium is named after a bank), the Regents at the U voted to ban beer sales at the new stadium, thereby pissing off people that had already purchased season tickets. Well, some of them anyway. The original plan for beer sales was limited to those that had season tickets for the premium seats. Then the MN legislature passed a law prohibiting the sale of alcohol at the stadium unless all ticket holders 21 and over could buy it.
Apparently that was just too much to ask, letting the "commoners" have the same rights as the elites, so the Regents voted to ban alcohol.

It seems MN doesn't have a such a great track record of getting things right when it comes to blowing public money on stadiums.

[Name removed]

34. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[WCGreen]

35. It's a great story...

But that's what it is, a story, nothing more and nothing less...

[coti]

38. Well, I have to say that there's a difference between a story and

a fact.

To any extent there's embellishment in the above statement, I don't see all that much of it.

[WCGreen]

40. It the framework we all complain about here when the MSM

picks up something we see as totally false and continue to run with it...

That's all I am talking about here.

Here's this billionaire who isn't even from, which I didn't know until today, New Orleans talking about a winning a football game signals that a physically destroyed city is now back.

I take nothing away from the pride of the fans of the Saints, I too was proud when the Cleveland Indians were on that amazing streak in the mid to late 90's when they were one of the winningest teams in all of baseball. But that's as far as it goes. Winning a big game is fun but the next morning reality has a nasty way of showing up at the front door. Well for all of us who aren't billionaires.

[coti]

48. I think that, mostly, it's a football game, not a political one.

There may be opinions from one side or another influenced by large amounts of money but for the most part this is just football. It's not political- but it is geographical.

And, geographically, the Saints are quite the team to support. There's really not a whole lot to be said in argument against that. It's amazing that they got there and a lot of people are going to want them to win.

[jobycom]

39. First Taylor Swift, now the New Orleans Saints?

I'll bet you didn't even cry when Old Yellar died!

I normally like you, but this is a low blow. A lot of people in New Orleans and from New Orleans are feeling really good about this right now. People fought to keep the team in the city when there weren't enough people to fill the stadium there anymore. People fought hard and worked hard to keep the stadium from being torn down, and then to have it rebuilt. People in New Orleans have had enough crap thrown at them from outsiders, usually in the guise of the outsiders knowing what's best for New Orleans. They were supposed to throw out their mayor. They were supposed to blame one politician or another or throw out one politician or another. People keep telling them they should shut down the whole city, that it's sinking and beneath sea level and too expensive and a bunch of other pop-myth nonsense, that they don't even deserve to have their home rebuilt.

People are goddamned happy about this. The Saints have a bond to that city like no other team has to theirs, and this is something they can feel good about. Give them the goddamned chance to feel good for a change. They know a lot better than you what else needs to be done.

[waiting for hope]

41. +1 zillion ...

My husband was born and raised there .. talked to some of his family and friends earlier and the excitement for this win is beyond belief. The city needed this, the fans needed this and by God, if it shines a spotlight on all that is good about New Orleans, that would be lagniappe.

[WCGreen]

43. To be truthful, I doubt if too many New Orleans fans are going to

be reading this...

I like taking stuff from the news to make a point. And my point was that winning a football game is not going to signal that New Orleans is back no matter how we spin it.

Here in Cleveland we fought long and hard to get the Browns back, even putting other dire public needs on hold just to get a football team back on the Lake Front. I thought that was a huge mistake when it was going on since precious public funds would be diverted from dire needs elsewhere in the community. I would bring that up at community discussion and was usually roundly booed.

Fifteen years later the city is in far worse condition. But every Sunday, people gather together for a couple of hours and are focused on one goal. Unfortunately, in my mind at least, focusing on the goal line deters us from focusing on the suffering that goes on everyday right down the street from the Cleveland Browns Stadium. I find little satisfaction in knowing that I was right

I'm glad you like some of the stuff I write, but I always will write about what I see, what I feel...

I gave my Mae cupa for that Taylor Swift fiasco, I discovered later that I was mixing Ms. Swift up with Carrie Underwood. It's really hard to keep up with teen idols when you are on the other side of fifty.

Anyway, it's just how I feel. And I respect the fact that you don't agree how I felt or how I presented myself.

But I guess if we all agree with each other all the time it would get to be pretty boring around here.

[jobycom]

46. There are a lot Saints fans around here.

A whole lot. New Orleans is a Democratic city.

I understand posting what you believe, but this comes too close to attacking a lot of good people, and telling them that the source of a great amount of pride and happiness at this moment is really a bad thing.

[HeeBGBz]

59. Saints fan here. Reading this.

Let the town and the area have their moment. They've supported this team in the worst of seasons and have stuck with them for decades. This is their first Superbowl. Yes, there is a shitload of work to still be done, but we don't need any D.Downer posts to spoil the celebration.

[coti]

49. Amazing. nt

[proteus_lives]

42. So you're an officer in the DU "Debbie Downer" brigade?

[Feron]

44. You know nothing about the ppl of New Orleans.

The Saints are more than just an NFL team to us. They are part of us.

And yes we have problems and right now there is a mayoral election going on. Nagin's on his way out.

We don't expect a Saints game to change the world or the city and it's not. But it's so motherfucking great to see the Saints go to the Super Bowl. Something I never thought I'd see in my lifetime.

I'm a Katrina survivor and I've been crying from happiness. This win means more to the city than an outsider can understand. We need this.

I guess some people find their purpose in life as a Debbie Downer.

[Behind the Aegis]

47. +1

[coti]

50. Congratulations.

I'm happy for you.

[Bluebear]

51. Truthfully, I am happy for the Saints and NO *because* of Katrina.

I think the area can use some good news and something for which to root and look forward to.

[coti]

52. They could use a morale-builder-

more than anywhere in our country.

:)

The people of New Orleans have been knocked-down like no other here in the States, and I love them for anything and everything they've done getting back up. They are strong.

[Bluebear]

53. Laissez les bons temps rouler!

[coti]

56. Amusez-vous, mes amis.

;)

[WCGreen]

57. My beef is with what the owner said and that that will be played out

over across the country...

By no means did I mean that the people should not enjoy the victory.

Look, Cleveland hasn't been devastated by a Hurricane, but within 20 years, it went from a vibrant, diverse city of about 850k down to a depleted shell of a city with about 430k.

There are areas of my city that are so blighted that you would think tornado's whipped through again and again.

When the Browns left for Baltimore back in 1994, the whole place seemed to cave in. Even when the Indians were winning and drawing thousands of people downtown 80 days a year, not having the Browns here left a hole in the hearts of many.

People banded together like I have never seen before. No other issue pulled the area together than getting the Browns back. So blinded were the people that they agreed to throw vast amounts of public money at the new owners, a family that owned and operated one of the biggest Master Card outfit in the world. They all lined up and jumped through every hoop he put in the way just to get a team back in Cleveland.

In the end, all that money to rebuild the stadium on prime lake front real estate mind you, accelerated the decline of Cleveland because all the energy and treasure wasted on a football team could have been used to do something constructive for the area.

That was why I brought up Rome.

Bread and circus.

I understand it. I realize people use these sporting events to forget about stuff they have to bear on a daily basis. I root for my teams and hope they win.

But in the end, it's just a football game.

And the way sports are set up in most American cities it is that the owners who grab most all the profit, a little bit trickles out to ancillary establishments and the people, the very people who were suppose to be uplifted by the great economic boom sports teams bring to a city, almost always end up paying for all of the cost of operating the team except the salaries of the players. (By the way, that's one of the reasons players salaries are so high.)

On this board I have heard time and time again that the rich love to privatize the benefits of their business while socializing as much of the costs as they possibly can. It's classic us vs them.

Until it comes to sports. Then all bets are off. Anything goes. The people must have their diversions.

I'm far too cynical to not think of these things. And if that makes me a Debbie Downer, well so be it.

Although I like to think, when I do think in rhythmic tags, I would be more of a Rickie Realistic.

[jobycom]

60. You should know the economics better than that.

Teams bring in revenues in a multitude of ways, from raising a city's image to outsiders who will then consider the city for conventions or even relocation, to the draw of people from outer areas to regional businesses during the game. The team also employs hundreds of people year round, and during games thousands of people. Lawyers, accountants, doctors and other medical health trainers, as well as coaches, athletes, equipment people, and all the obvious sports-related jobs. And they are large consumers, buying local supplies and equipment like any business.

Not to mention, a major building project like a stadium makes local businesses salivate. Construction workers, electricians, designers, engineers, office supply stores, equipment sales and rentals, people who repair the equipment... all wind up with some of that money in their pockets. That does put people to work, it does bring in money.

If I told you a company worth hundreds of millions of dollars was moving to Cleveland and would create thousands of jobs from skilled professionals to temporary and seasonal workers, and that would have a strong loyalty to the city (old Browns notwithstanding) so that they would buy local products when possible, and would continually sponsor events around the city that would aid charity, especially towards children, you'd say that was a great investment. Cities always make large investments to bring new business to their region. Somehow, though, when it's a sports team, people ignore the business side and go straight for the petty insults and the pop-misunderstandings about economics. It's one of those popular things that people who believe they are iconoclasts love to do--lampoon something that the masses enjoy, whether it's fair or not.

People in New Orleans are thrilled by this. It's bringing pride and hope and a shared pleasure that this city has needed for years now, and it's doing more than that to people who have followed this team for decades. All of that may center around a team and a game, but it's about a lot more than the team or the game. It's about the city and it's about the soul of the city. Let it ride.

[WCGreen]

65. It's all elusive unless you can sustain the cash flow to the community.

Here are a few links...


http://dontmesswithtaxes.typepad.com/No_Public_Money_for_Stadia.pdf

http://www.akdart.com/sports.html

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/story/7204546

http://dcfpi.org/?p=81


I do know that New Orleans has other attractions and that their economy is not driven by sports teams so the comparison is a lot different for other cities.

I sat on the committee here in Cuyahoga County to decide how to build the new stadium for the new browns. Such bull shit I heard. I am always skeptical when guys in thousand dollar suits are talking about helping out "the people." It's just my nature.

Anyway, the investment here in Cleveland and a ton of other northern cities has not paid off. Well, it has paid off for people like GW Bush when he was included in the ownership cabal down their in Arlington Texas. I'm sure you know how that deal went down. If not, read this...

http://www.angelfire.com/ok5/pearly/htmls/bush-sec5.html

I actually think my economics are right. But then again, you probably believe what you are saying with all your heart. I question the efficacy of spending public money for the private good. It always, always smacks of that scene in Animal House when Kevin Bacon is saying after getting his ass swatted, Thank you sir, can I have another.

[pipi_k]

62. Once it was apparent my own team wouldn't be going to the SB

I sort of lost interest in the whole thing, but then I decided that New Orleans, out of all the ones that were left, really deserved it.

I got all choked up last night when they won.


For one thing, I was glad to see them beat Brett "I want to retire, no I don't, yes I do, no I don't" Favre.

And that win...well, I think it went a long way toward putting to rest some of the ghosts of the aftermath of Katrina in the stadium. I do understand about "ghosts".


Anyway, a huge congratulations on your Saints winning the NFC title, and all I can say now is Go Saints!!! Beat those Colts!!! Do it for the City of New Orleans.

:)

[Name removed]

54. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

58. I doubt Tom Benson really thought too much about his speech while celebrating

It wasn't like he was making the State of the Union speech. Besides, it's well known he was looking to get out of town after Katrina, who really cares what he says?

If it's brought some sort of joy to people there, let them have it. You aren't there, you aren't a Saints fan, so don't speak for them.

[pipi_k]

61. Well I guess all those New Orleanians I saw celebrating after the game last night

are too stupid to know that they should really be feeling like shit right now.


Granted, winning the NFC Conference title and going to the Superbowl aren't going to fix anything

But geez...why piss on the first happy moment many of them have probably had in nearly five years?

[Rebubula]

63. Stupid People...

...being happy and all.

Sometimes, I will never understand how some of you even get out of bed in the morning.

[ChoppinBroccoli]

64. Did Anyone Else Have A REAL Problem.............

.............with the fact that George H.W. and Barbara Bush were present watching a game in the owner's box of the Superdome? I mean, after the horrible things Barbara said about the Superdome and the people forced to live inside it a few years ago (and her son's treatment of the entire town), I would think the entire Bush Family would be personas non grata inside the Superdome.

[KamaAina]

67. Until the Federal Flood, the only things Lakeview and the Lower Ninth Ward had in common

were the same worthless mayor, zip codes starting with 701 -- and the Saints.

[cherokeeprogressive]

70. Who cares if your jubilation is muted? You're not in Nawlins.

Their jubilation isn't muted, it's out there for everyone to see and take heart from. For my money, it's their jubilation that counts, not yours.

They deserve to feel good about themselves for whatever reason they see fit. They're STILL partying in the French Quarter... Good for You New Orleans!

[WCGreen]

73. Damn, and I thought ever Jubilation must be counted...

[merh]

71. The Saints did bring relief, joy and pride to the city after the storm.

They came back stronger than ever and the majority of the team gives to the city, works to help the people and pulls for the city.

Their winning season has brought more into the city, a city that relies on tourism, than anything else that has come along since Katrina.

What is wrong with being proud and elated that after 43 years the Saints are going to the Super Bowl?

[alarimer]

74. A distraction while the Halliburtons of this world whitewash New Orleans

but, hey, as long as they play that damn football game, everything is all right.

Never mind the deliberate destruction public housing there, even though it did not suffer the damage other places. No, we have to turn New Orleans into just another Disneyfied showplace.

While the fans are distracted, all kinds of evil can be done behind their backs.

Football, of course, ultimately only benefits a few rich people. Every franchise ultimately brings less to a city (any city) than a major department store, mostly because the revenue goes to the owners and a select few. Oh there are a few shitty jobs as janitorial staff or peanut vendors, but that's about it. The impact of a major league sports franchise is much less than the boosters say it is.

Many, many things are still wrong in New Orleans, that no Super Bowl victory could ever fix. Anyone who thinks it will is deluding themselves.

[Swamp Rat]

75. WHO DAT?!?

http://videos.nola.com/times-picayune/2010/01/saints_video_bourbon_street.html