I'm growing very weary of politics

[DainBramaged]

I'm close to retirement age, it's impossible to switch jobs now because of my age and the economic situation out there, and I am simply tired of arguing about whether WE are right and they are wrong. Up until 2006, we've been under Republican control since 1980 (Clinton was an anomaly) things ave gotten worse everywhere, I should have been at a point where I was looking forward to retiring and comfortably at that, and yet here we are in a depression and the only people secure are the super-rich who picked my pocket over the last decade. The decision by the Supreme Court to give personage to corporations has just about sealed it for me. Yeah yeah, don't give up you say. What is our purpose then? And how do we balance that sledgehammer? We can't. We struggle here on DU for a week to get enough contributions to survive, yet now we too must compete against corporate America? How do we know that some of us in the future won't just be paid shills to undermine the premise of DU? We don't, but I don't know if I'm up for that fight either.


After a year of watching the rookie team in Washington bungle just about everything, backtrack on virtually every promise, wilt under the pressure of an atomic-clock precise noise machine, and generally forget how they got there, I am losing hope that we won't once again be overtaken by thugs and corporate front men in the next two elections. And I am tired of arguing with plants and hit men on this site whose only purpose is to tombstone valued members. I am sick of it all. Imports are gods, domestic autos should fail, foreign workers need OUR jobs, Unions simply drain the workforce. What kind of convoluted thinking is that? We outsource simple help desk jobs to India and keep increasing the unemployment benefits to the jobless here. What the hell happened to us? Too many people on this site think it's fun to jab at the heart of America. And too many people don't see the forest for the trees. What's next, outsourcing web design to China? That should put a knot in a few people's knickers. But I digress.

I am sick of arguing about politics. I've gained noting, convinced no one that my position is better, and the politicians in Washington don't listen to me anyway.


What's the point?

[ixion]

1. I agree... personally I've never liked it

I've always been largely apolitical. Bush's coup d'tat in 2000 forced me to be more political, in an effort to confront the police state staring us down just a bit further down the path.

Now were, there the police state is in full rage, and we're screwed: entirely, wholly and deeply. And all the time and energy I've spent writing and ranting about civil liberties has pretty much been a wasted effort.

[Gman2]

2. The point is: the rethugs make you sick, you disengage, they dont, they win

[Libertas1776]

6. or the rethugs make you sick,

you engage, they don't, you win...then your party does jack squat, makes you sick, you disengage, they don't, they win, again.

[peace frog]

17. [phone]

"Never give up, never surrender" becomes "I'm too damn sick to engage when my own party is deaf to my voice".

[emsimon33]

53. But the only way to get the Party's attention may be to disengage

and then, perhaps, they will see that they need the base.

[Th1onein]

113. Yeah, right.

Sure, uh huh.

Computer says, "Nah."

[RaleighNCDUer]

123. Would it were so - but the corporate party would only take disengagement

as proof that the country is more 'right' than it is, and that the so-called centrists have it right because, after all, they are hearing nothing from the left. They win.

[Pharaoh]

86. Lol.........n/t

[Mithreal]

36. As long as you include conservatives control both parties

I agree with the rest of your sentiment.

[old mark]

3. Dupe-delete

[old mark]

4. I have been sick of politics -especially politicians- since the late 1970's.

Sadly, they NEVER get tired of US and will fuck with us all for our entire lives and after.

mark

[lunatica]

5. I think you're in one of the stages of grief (don't despair)

http://www.recover-from-grief.com/7-stages-of-grief.html

7 Stages of Grief...

1. SHOCK & DENIAL-
You will probably react to learning of the loss with numbed disbelief. You may deny the reality of the loss at some level, in order to avoid the pain. Shock provides emotional protection from being overwhelmed all at once. This may last for weeks.

2. PAIN & GUILT-
As the shock wears off, it is replaced with the suffering of unbelievable pain. Although excruciating and almost unbearable, it is important that you experience the pain fully, and not hide it, avoid it or escape from it with alcohol or drugs.

You may have guilty feelings or remorse over things you did or didn't do with your loved one. Life feels chaotic and scary during this phase.

3. ANGER & BARGAINING-
Frustration gives way to anger, and you may lash out and lay unwarranted blame for the death on someone else. Please try to control this, as permanent damage to your relationships may result. This is a time for the release of bottled up emotion.

You may rail against fate, questioning "Why me?" You may also try to bargain in vain with the powers that be for a way out of your despair ("I will never drink again if you just bring him back")

4. "DEPRESSION", REFLECTION, LONELINESS-
Just when your friends may think you should be getting on with your life, a long period of sad reflection will likely overtake you. This is a normal stage of grief, so do not be "talked out of it" by well-meaning outsiders. Encouragement from others is not helpful to you during this stage of grieving.

During this time, you finally realize the true magnitude of your loss, and it depresses you. You may isolate yourself on purpose, reflect on things you did with your lost one, and focus on memories of the past. You may sense feelings of emptiness or despair.

7 Stages of Grief...

5. THE UPWARD TURN-
As you start to adjust to life without your dear one, your life becomes a little calmer and more organized. Your physical symptoms lessen, and your "depression" begins to lift slightly.

6. RECONSTRUCTION & WORKING THROUGH-
As you become more functional, your mind starts working again, and you will find yourself seeking realistic solutions to problems posed by life without your loved one. You will start to work on practical and financial problems and reconstructing yourself and your life without him or her.

7. ACCEPTANCE & HOPE-
During this, the last of the seven stages in this grief model, you learn to accept and deal with the reality of your situation. Acceptance does not necessarily mean instant happiness. Given the pain and turmoil you have experienced, you can never return to the carefree, untroubled YOU that existed before this tragedy. But you will find a way forward.

7 stages of grief...

You will start to look forward and actually plan things for the future. Eventually, you will be able to think about your lost loved one without pain; sadness, yes, but the wrenching pain will be gone. You will once again anticipate some good times to come, and yes, even find joy again in the experience of living.

[freddie mertz]

115. I think I just transition from stage 3 to stage 4: Depression, Isolation.

I can't keep fighting it anymore.

We have lost, and the game looks to be up for the foreseeable future,

Knifed in the face by the Pubs, stabbed in the back by the Dems.

Politics is over.

[Kokonoe]

7. Well don't forget your words are appreciated around here.

Thanks for taking the time and effort to stand up for others around here.

Although the supreme court ruling was wrong, anything helps that opens Americans eyes that the system is rigged.

[Mithreal]

37. +1

[BigBearJohn]

109. +1

[BigBearJohn]

110. +1

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

8. Mission Accomplished.

The more the vote is depressed, the more TPTB wins.

[FailureToCommunicate]

32. "Depressed" or not depressed, we all hope he/she will still VOTE. The only "message"

when one doesn't vote is that you are a lazy bum and can't be bothered to take a few minutes out of your Tuesday for you civic duty that others (or even you) have fought and died to secure.
Just sayin'

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

59. Thank you for confirming my point.

:applause:

[raccoon]

9. Alert is your friend! I'm going to start a thread on the subject.

"And I am tired of arguing with plants and hit men on this site whose only purpose is to tombstone valued members."

[graywarrior]

10. Same here, and I start a course in Government today.

Wish I had never signed up for it.

[NYC_SKP]

25. Maybe you'll enjoy parts of it.

I hope you like it, and if you don't you can bring some knitting or crossword puzzles to class.

:donut:

[graywarrior]

26. It's an online class.

I'm happier hiding in my dark house right now...lol.

[NYC_SKP]

27. Right on! Now you can go to school...

...nekkid!

Geeze, nobody else interesting to reply to.

I should get to work.

:hi:

[graywarrior]

29. I have to leave the house in a few to go to work, too.

[ShortnFiery]

11. Yes, sadly, I agree. eom

[OwnedByFerrets]

12. Reached that conclusion before you.

In all honesty, its been a nicer place around my psyche for the past 2 months.

[TheCowsCameHome]

13. It seems one side is as bad as the other. I expect to be screwed

by my enemies, not by my "friends"

[peace frog]

19. At least, not without dinner and drinks first

maybe a movie, a little stepping-out would be nice before the screwing commences.

[TheCowsCameHome]

21. Yeah, but the economy's tough. Save a buck wherever you can....

[peace frog]

28. Cheap date

If they can't take me out and treat me like a lady, they should expect nothing in return. ;)

[TheCowsCameHome]

34. Well, OK. But if I fall asleep during dinner

it's because I usually turn in early, nothing you did.
:hi:

[peace frog]

35. Shucks, let's do lunch instead

Wouldn't want to interfere with your beauty sleep. :)

[sandnsea]

14. Web design is outsourced to India

My local Democratic county commissioner uses an Indian company for his business web site.

Countrywide mortgage servicing is in India too.

[dixiegrrrrl]

18. This just in: White House Decides to Outsource NASA Work

JANUARY 24, 2010, 10:50 P.M. ET

The White House has decided to begin funding private companies to carry NASA astronauts into space, but the proposal faces major political and budget hurdles, according to people familiar with the matter.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=228x62072

No idea if the private companies are USA or foreign.
I would expect foreign, all that cost cutting, profit making crap.

[kickysnana]

24. For 2 years computer security for many investment houses is outsourced to ...China. n/t

[Kahuna]

15. I hear you, Dain. I'm at the same point. The people who have the most to lose..

constantly go all out to make sure that repukes are elected. They don't even realize that they are their own worst enemies. In their zeal to "punish" Dems who are just going with the flow that they (the punishers) themselves created, they assure that the "progressive" ideals they espouse will never ever be achieved. WTF is wrong with this picture?

I also, am nearing retirement age, and I have seen this scenario played out again and again. I've had it. I'll continue to vote Democratic. But as far as trying to convince the purists that their actions are counter-productive, I give up. Let them have at it. They will be hurt in the process much more than Kahuna.

[KharmaTrain]

16. Disengage And The Bastards Win...

I've detached from a lot of the bullshit...the rhetoric...the "idealism" that never related to the world I live in or the people I care about. I've tuned out a lot of the crap from the teevee and away from the talking point...taking a step back and getting a clearer picture of how things are.

I'm "semi-retired" these days...by choice...as the economy makes it toxic to try to get involved with any new business...tight credit has made it nearly impossible to properly fund and the power of the large corporates adds to the complications. There's a real systemic problem that is hampering any chance of a sustainable recovery...we've offshored, downsized and "gloabal economized" much of our industry, our corporates are bankrupt, government is broke and I don't see this turning around soon. The "recovery" has been a shell game where TARP and bailout money to the banks went to prop up their existing accounts...so if you have investments you've gotten some back of what you lost, but the market has stagnated over the past three months. It's easy to blame this administration for "not doing enough"...but they have little to work with...including obstructionists in both parties.

My DU rule is not to argue but to discuss...I'm grateful to those who understand this and we're able to look at all aspects of an issue. To those who have thrown up their hands and thing all is useless...either going to "punish" Democrats or taking their ball and going home...then if things get worse (rushpublicans returning to some form of power) they'll be the first to blame the rest of us for not doing enough. You can't win.

The options are to keep fighting...working to get more Progressives funded and elected...a bigger seat at the table in Washington. Anyone who thought we'd be able to reverse 30 years of destructive corporate/rushpublican plundering in two years or less deserves to feel they way they do. You can sit and curse the darkness or get out and work to bring true change. This doesn't happen with just one person, it requires 535 legislators as well...the job to take back our country has only just begun.

[truedelphi]

108. yes you are very right. Disengaging from the scene will only hurt us, as the work of "politics" will

Continue to eat away the surviving middle incomed.

Yet it is easy to feel a real sense of loss. The Supreme Court says Corporate control of elections is okay?

It is as though we woke up in some unreal Pottersville of a landscape, and it isn't an angel but a devil guiding the Jimmy Stewart character.

[azul]

20. The point is extinctions.

I'm bout in the same place as you, but what keeps me kicking against this apathy and selfishness and mindlessness is the unity and beauty of all life. It is worth standing up for and defending.

Mankind has a pretty brutal and bloodthirsty history in getting to be at this top spot in life's web, and now must figure out how to live in balance with all life if it is to survive in its present forms.

The corporate master thing is stunning. That, I think, is part of its intention: to discourage real people of conscience. Just direct all your actions to end any destructions and needless sufferings, the intention and example are contagious and get the rocks rolling toward self-respect and survival.

[bigtree]

22. tha alternative (turning away) is worse

No one said this was easy.

[Phoonzang]

23. I'm growing weary of democracy

People have more access to information than any point in human history, but they're still manipulated by simplistic, jinogistic, xenophobic propaganda. If they can't make decisions that are in their best interests, maybe someone else should. Morons.

[Mithreal]

40. -1

[Phoonzang]

43. I'll have to -1 myself on that as well.

Didn't have my coffee this morning. Tends to make me dictatorial.

[Mithreal]

44. Ha. Ok, good morning to you and enjoy your coffee.

[raccoon]

51. Where have you been living, that you've experienced democracy? nt

[Mithreal]

81. Unions are democracy in the workplace. There are other examples.

But I do think I may know what you mean.

[dkf]

30. Isn't it ironic how much of a high we were on when Obama won?

I really thought he would lead us to great things. Now I'm just depressed.

[Silent3]

31. "tired of arguing with plants and hit men"

Perhaps that kind of paranoia is part of what's wearing you out?

Yes, there are incognito freepers, and maybe even a few paid political hacks now and then, who come here and stir up trouble, but if you're starting to imagine them everywhere, any time anyone disagrees with you, you're letting this place drive you crazy.

I am sick of arguing about politics. I've gained noting, convinced no one that my position is better...

People seldom every change their minds about anything right before your eyes, unless it's a pretty minor point about which a person feels little conviction. How often do you ever hear anyone anywhere say, in response to a particularly well-fashioned argument made by anyone, "You know. You're right and I was wrong. I've changed my mind."?

The most any of us ever usually manage is to plant the seeds for future thought, ideas that might later influence a person when they are quietly thinking to themselves, after enough cumulative influences begin to reshape their opinions.

[tavalon]

38. Yeah, slowly, over time, my politcal point of view has changed

from Democratic to Democratic Socialism and it's pretty much wholly because of this place and the discussions I have been party to. But yeah, there was no pivotal moment where someone changed my mind. It's been a slow and steady process.

[Mithreal]

41. Well said.

[Romulox]

33. It's not possible for regular people to make a change within this system. Fact. nt

[Mithreal]

42. Could not disagree more. If you are talking about moving the mountain

today then you have a point.

Look for smaller rocks.

[butterfly77]

39. I agree but..

I refuse to give up. Everytime I say I am through with politics I see one of these nuts somewhere on television or something in my everyday life reminds me of them and how it got that way and I realize, I can't give up because everything in the world is politics..

[The Wielding Truth]

99. I/m with you. I used to think I could tolerate a republican business world. But I can't.

I have to fight it. I have to reason that change can happen if I get hot against it. I know I can make a difference if I don't give up or give in. I hope that Barry hears us and he doesn't give up or give in.

I believe that he is our voice, our head,and he has our power. He must use it, and move the mountain that many on this thread see as immovable.

[ourbluenation]

45. The rookie team bungle and break promises? HORSESHIT!

Obama has had unprecedented success on the hill. UNPRECEDENTED.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=122436116

And as for promises, I would direct you to this DU thread...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=7565101&mesg_id=7565101

[Mithreal]

47. The truth is somewhere in the middle.

Unprecedented theme has become pretty popular. I will keep an open mind to the argument, but NPR is no longer a reliable source of news. For years I listened to NPR and was wildly supportive until it was corrupted some time during the last administration. Your article represents SPIN.

"His success was 96.7 percent on all the votes where we said he had a clear position in both the House and the Senate. That's an extraordinary number," Cranford says.

We are talking about President Triangulation, for gawd sakes. I think I used that term properly, someone tell me if I didn't. It always helps to ignore past promises and make new ones, then claim you never promised the people anything differently FTW.

So I hope you composted that horseshit first. Anyone who has the perception of the Obama admin that you seem to be calling out, has it for a reason. I will say that President Obama is foolish to not realize that many of his promises can be relived on YOUTUBE and others are remembered as well. I have told the White House comment takers that very statement several times and you know how they responded, with interest, and the words, "Good point."

[ourbluenation]

49. Congressional Quarterly was the source, as reported by NPR. n/t

[Mithreal]

50. I stand by the rest of my argument despite my mini-rant on NPR.

My fault for not reading more closely. I have done that more than once.

[freddie mertz]

117. If everything is as rosy as you want to convince to believe, then why are we in free fall?

The alarm bell has sounded, and the administration's idea of a response is to put a freeze on domestic spending, a la Hoover?

I don't remember voting for that.

The arguments we had last year are moot.

The only issue now is how deep and how lasting the fall will be.

[Ghost of Tom Joad]

46. me too

I'm so sick of the pundits on tv as well. I keep thinking when I retire I want to leave this country. My daughter is still in college and I want her to leave when she graduates. But who knows where to go?

I don't understand people supporting the repubs, they offer nothing.

[madmax]

48. Tell me about it... so tired. n/t

[w8liftinglady]

52. me,too...since I worked my fucking ass off the last 4 election cycles

sticking my neck out in RED America,suffering many insults and threats...only to have the very things we campaigned for...jobs,healthcare,glbt rights,end to the wars...ignored,distorted,neutered beyond recognition....Oh,we were useful when they needed our work and money for their campaigns...now-I guess I am bitter.

[amborin]

54. many are reaching the same conclusion!

[DesertFlower]

55. i agree. nt

[Scruffy1]

56. I know how you feel

Being 61 years old and having worked since I was 16 I have watched the insanity of this nation grow and grow until the insane is the norm. I too am depressed by how little headway we as a nation have made in my lifetime.
Just to get the fifteenth amendment enforced after 90 years required martyrs.
To fix an obvious problem like health insurance you would think was a task beyond comprehension.
But I think that the belief that change come from the ballot box is largely responsible for the malaise of the left wing of the Democratic Party.
After all, virtualy all democrats profess to believe in capitalism so why would one believe that they would do anything but defend the status quo. Our elected officials will do just enough to get reelected just as we would do if in office. After all, if your out of office you have no power. This is not meant to disparage politicians. I've known some fine men and women who have been elected officials.
American history shows us that all change came after long and often violent struggle, whether it was the labor movement or the civil rights movement. So if you believe walking into the voting booth every two years is going to do it you are going to be disappointed.
I really like Obama, but the Presidents main power is the bully pulpit and he has know power over the most undemocratic of our institutions-the US senate. Even FDR couldn't get anything through it after 1937.
The democratic party is not the issue-the issue is are we willing to fight against long odds and stand up for our beliefs or simply slink away into the night of oblivion.

[WillyT]

57. Gettin There Too...

:kick:

[treestar]

58. You're the reason Republicans win

republicans never get tired. They know it's a big picture thing, so they keep at it, even if they don't see immediate results.

I know some who've marched every Jan. 26 on D.C. to protest Roe v. Wade. They are no closer to a repeal of that decision than they were when they started. but they keep going.

When you retire you have time. Do it for the kids and grandkids and their kids.

[DainBramaged]

63. And you should decide what's best for you not for me

I have two words, and they aren't Merry Christmas.

[saracat]

64. Many of us have volunteered, campaigned, run for office and contributed to

the Democratic Party years and are now watching everything we worked for be destroyed and we have no recourse because our own are doing it.There is no longer any answer. Politics has triumphed over people.We,the real Democrats, the workwers , volunteers and people are not the reason the Republicans win. The "New" Democratic party itself has become the reason the GOP wins.

[Butch350]

60. Whoa..is that red backround a metaphor for something?

[Butch350]

61. The scary part is that it ain't gonna get better. "Turn the Page"!

[newtothegame]

62. Wow I wish I could rec this a million times. Too many people pin their happiness..

on the political process.

[Goldstein1984]

65. Politics is like unplugging a toilet...

Unpleasant but necessary. It hardly matters whether your dealing with a Democrat or Republican turd.

I've simplified my politics:
-Principles (democratic) before party.
-My vote isn't guaranteed, even to the lesser of two turds.
-Come election day, a candidate either delivered or failed to deliver.
-Choosing the lesser of two evils is like choosing the tumor that's killing you slowly over the tumor that's killing you quickly.


And I don't buy into the argument that not voting is lazy and apathetic. The act of withholding a vote is an aggressive, engaged, and purposeful act of defiance against a party that is not representing you.

Consider this scenario involving doing nothing: You're visiting Washington, D.C. and circumstances have you standing next to Dick Cheney as he begins to step in front of a speeding truck. Even though it's completely within your power to save him, you intentionally say and do nothing, and you tell authorities after-the-fact that you were distracted by a flock of beautiful cedar waxwings eating berries in the trees. Now tell me that doing nothing is not doing something.

[marions ghost]

66. advocating passivity

probably isn't going to get you anywhere. Nobody cares about a non-voter's opinion in a nation of winner-take-all elections.

The Dem party is not listening to threats of non-support because we Leftwingers don't have enough clout. We should, in a fairer system, but we don't. We can't apply any leverage. It was all we could do to get Obama elected, and there were many miracles along the way in doing that. Whoever thought the Rethugs weren't going to come back with pistols blazing doesn't understand Rethuggery. Or the weak Dems who help them.

It is hard to keep fighting when you feel you never really win, that the deck is always stacked against you. Some of us have been fighting for a long time and are understandably tired. But I take heart that STILL we are on the right side of history. We must continue to criticize, to speak truth, to bear witness. Even though we may feel powerless, we have a responsibility to EACH OTHER, and to anyone who comes here, to be a safe haven for the discussion of what is real, and for the projection of what is possible.

Brick by brick.

[Goldstein1984]

67. Not advocating passivity at all

Withholding a vote is not passivity, except from the perspective of people who rely on but don't earn that vote.

A vote that isn't guaranteed is a vote that has to be earned. A guaranteed vote requires no effort.

I absolutely reject the lesser-of-two-terminal-diseases model of voting. I would never advocate that a woman has no choice but to choose between the less abusive of two abusive boyfriends, and I wouldn't expect a voter to choose between the less compromised of two parties.

There is an alternative to two unrepresentative parties for democratically minded citizens.

Voting a party ticket is the ultimate in passivity. It doesn't even require the tossing of a coin.

[marions ghost]

69. Like I said

withholding a vote means nothing in this society. We (left of center) are not a voting bloc that has any real power. We are always in the position of "lesser of 2 evils." That is the ONLY choice available to us. And the Dems know they can count on our votes because we have no place else to turn. So FORGET voting as a way to "say" anything.

It's not about votes so much as having a voice. We still have a voice, but we have to be heard in other ways.

Voting or not voting? :shrug: This means nothing in America. Not voting as a strategy is :rofl: naive, romantic, stupid.

Vote The Party and then work in OTHER ways.

[Goldstein1984]

71. We're going to have to disagree

This nation war born in an act of rejecting the status quo. It can be reborn the same way.

Ed Schultz was on the radio the Friday before the MA special election, apologizing to Progressives and literally begging them to vote. They ignored him. That sent a message.

That message was, "Don't assume that Progressives are naive, romantic, stupid, or sheep."

[marions ghost]

74. Oh yeah

big message. And so how does that help? You tell me.

So you get "progressives" not to vote? Hey good luck electing Rethuglicans.

[Goldstein1984]

76. The standard lesser-of-two-tumors argument

Not being held hostage to it anymore.

If things have to get worse so that people rise up, then fine.

With few progressive exceptions, Congress is nothing but a bordello for Wall Street's entertainment.

[marions ghost]

79. You & I have the same degree of cynicism

but you don't understand how powerless you really are. "Rise up" --don't make me laugh.
That's kinda dangerous.

You seem to think something's going to change if you don't vote. So what changed in Massachusetts eh? I mean, for the better? I'd say the jury's out on that.

[Goldstein1984]

87. I am cynical, no doubt about it.

But I always say that a cynic is just a skeptic keeping good notes.

I don't believe we are powerless, I believe voting is meaningless if the elected officials prostitute themselves out to Wall Street as soon as they are elected.

You are correct about the "kinda dangerous" part. I'm in favor of a full revolt, stopping short of violence, and I fully expect that the result will be violence directed against citizens (see Pittsburgh G20 Summit).

And I definitely agree that the jury is out on MA. The jury being those who will be voting in 2010 and 2012, and those on trial being any Democratic politician who gets the message of MA wrong.

When I look at that graph you sent--the one that so many Conservadems like to use to show how powerless progressives/liberals--I see about 20% of the electorate voting liberal, in a country where most races are decided by percentages of much less than 10%. We are not powerless.

I have no idea where were are really going, but I'd like to see a future with the Conservadems just go ahead and join the Republican party, where they belong, and give the Democratic Party back to democratic thinkers more worried about human progress than about capitalism and militarism and imperialism.

[marions ghost]

70. Check this

Go to this link and look at the graph. THEN you might get it:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=7562663&mesg_id=7562663

[Goldstein1984]

72. I've seen it

It looks to me like moderates have some changing to do if they want to be players.

What are moderate Democrats, anyway, beside Republican Lite?

[marions ghost]

77. If you think

moderates are going to become liberals anytime soon, you're crazy. They have more chance of going conservative--y'know being essentially R-lite.

We are at the bottom of the pack. America is a very conservative place at heart but more people would be liberals if they could see positive results, I'm sure.

[Goldstein1984]

78. Then voting status quo isn't going to change things

We need to try something else.

I'm already doing the something else. I'm just waiting for someone with the public's ear, a progressive agenda, and a willingness to defy the system to call for the public to take the necessary actions--boycotts, civil disobedience, divesting.

The sheep need to grow fangs.

Good luck with the going along to get along tactic.

[marions ghost]

80. OK

you go do "something else" with you non-vote and your Messianic hopes. I don't see another MLK on the horizon, do you?

It's going to take other strategies.

[Goldstein1984]

88. Maybe with people like you doing that, and people like me

doing what I do, we can create a little change.

Only time will tell.

As I write this, my granddaughter's voice is coming from the other room. I don't think our current two-party system and the party faithful are going to contribute in any fashion to a future for her. I see them selling it off. My son is about to deploy to southern Iraq as part of our 'withdrawal," and I'm sick of a bunch of militaristic warmongers in both parties sending the children of the poor to die for the futures of the children of the rich.

My fangs are grown fully. I'm just waiting for the flock to turn into a pack. We don't need anything approaching violence to create change. Imagine what would happen to the economy if 20% of the electorate just stopped all discretionary spending--no new cars; no durable goods; no video games; no theater; no dining out; no vacations.

[marions ghost]

122. Now at least

you're getting more creative than just not voting. Stop all discretionary spending...well that's happening now whether people choose it or not. And how long are people supposed to do this kind of extreme self-denial so that it will make a difference? And how do you separate necessities from luxuries? Most people in the US see a car, a washing machine, a TV, as necessities. And how well do people do when they have no entertainment, no distractions from misery? Entertainment can be seen as a luxury or a necessity.

I can tell you've never been poor. When I was growing up, my family was poor. We'd go to a movie or dinner out even when we had to sacrifice a "necessity" to do it. Just to get out, just to feel normal, if only for a little while.

Only the fairly well off would consider this no spending idea. People have tried pushing this notion many times. Americans don't seem to go for non-consumption. For one thing, they have been made into consumers who depend on Things. Searching for things is a hobby, even to the level of the current "retail therapy" addiction. You can't take it away without having something to replace it with.

Our corporate masters have thought of all this. They have strategies too.:-(

[Goldstein1984]

73. Duplicate

Deleted

[madokie]

68. That american dream promise we all lived

or thought we were was all a lie, well maybe it wasn't intended to be a lie to begin with but it damn sure turned out that way. And its all fixing to change for the worst with this new 'person' in our midst with unlimited power to control who our government is.

+1

[B Calm]

75. 59 yrs old here and we have a lot in common!

[SlingBlade]

82. Yep. It's getting pretty sicking isn't it :(

[crispini]

83. Stop arguing and get out there and join an organization.

Apologies in advance if you already do this but...

Arguing about politics on the web accomplishes nothing. Arguing about politics with people in person, only a little bit. However, working in a small group in your community to try to get SOMETHING concrete done will get you endless amounts of friends and personal satisfaction. Even if it doesn't work. Adopt a local candidate and work for them, fight a zoning issue, join a local non-profit -- anything, anything that will get you out of the house and connected with likeminded people in your area.

Arguing about politics is for academics. Activism is for people who really want to connect and try to accomplish something.

[DainBramaged]

84. Did all of that. Do you honestly think I'd be throwing stones if I lived in a glass house?

Thanks for your advice, but I started doing that back in the 80's working to get Bill Clinton elected when I was young and naive, so I have more than clue.

[crispini]

85. Just checking. :)

Ya never know who you're talking to on here.

As frustrating as the climate is lately I will always treasure my friends I've made through my local activism.

Take a break. I don't always pay attention to the news in detail. Sometimes I need that for my sanity. I always feel better in a few months.

[akforme]

89. The answer is usually what most can't understand

Follow the money. When you have a corrupt money system that produces nothing but debt, it will only get worse because the debt will always get bigger and require more resources to maintain.

[Name removed]

90. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. 
[link:www.democraticunderground.com/forums/rules.html|Click
here] to review the message board rules.

[shellgame26]

91. General strike-National boycott

Works in Europe everytime. We are both the consumers and the producers. We have the power but we don't use it.

[roody]

92. The point may be to live well and be happy.

Change will come from the bottom up.

[valerief]

96. Well, I guess you don't have to worry about paying your bills. nt

[MissDeeds]

93. Excellent post

K&R

And bookmarked.

[left of center]

94. Feel your pain there!

I exercised my right to vote at age 18 and voted a straight Republican ticket. Within a year I started voting Democratic and have been voting more Democratic with every election. I have more than voted, having even gone out and knocked on doors for Democratic candidates. I am now deeply disturbed with the paralysis that has occurred within the party and may very well sit out 2010 if the party does not get a spine and actually start getting things done!!!

[valerief]

95. It looks like The Family has won. I hope they give us good suicide pills when they

take away our Social Security and Medicare.

No, they're not that compassionate. They'll just use some kind of bombing device to create a "natural" disaster in three major cities every year.

[scentopine]

97. I hear you loud and clear - things are getting worse, the demise is accelerating

torture, wall street bailout, wall street bonuses, health care, corporate influence,

to be honest it is fucking hopeless. There are probably less than 6 people in congress (house and senate) who really give a fuck.

If this last presidential election didn't send a mandate for change, nothing will.

I'm only voting 3rd party from now on. I used to laugh at 3rd party voters. No more. I finally get it. They really were right all along.

Here in Texas we have Kay Baily Hutchinson and Rick Perry - two of the slimiest creatures to ever crawl out of an oil well.

Short of grabbbing an axe and a torch, and laying siege in washington or wall street, nothing will change.

They people in power know we don't have the strength for protest let alone violence - so the politicians and CEOs will continue to enrich themselves at our expense.

I get really depressed when I think about the disaster we are laying at the our children's feet.

[bc3000]

98. Too much focus on politics and not enough focus on governing.

[OldAthena]

100. Complete agreement

I have been thinking about how I felt and what I did after the 68 Democratic convention. For those of you too young ... that was a horror beyond horror. I hid in grad school and then got all hopeful that Watergate would change things. There was huge social unrest all over the world in '68.

Carter just couldn't fight the mess. It was too big and he had no weapons. And the Fascists got better at what they did. Look at the myth of Ronnie Raygun! Look at the insanity of Bush II. Look no draft for the stupid, inane wars. Now I believe it is too late. I think all 3 Democratic candidates are/were empty suits. It was just a game. And the game was to keep people watching and engaged and thinking something was actually going on. It wasn't. We know that now.

Now we are all exhausted and discouraged. Teabaggers also. The great unwashed of the country are being bulldozed. Same thing is happening in Britain and Italy.

[dysfunctional press]

101. clinton wasn't an 'anomaly', he was an accomplice. a dlc-dino.

but i agree with your main point-

what's the point?

all it does is adversely affect my blood pressure.

and NOTHING any of us says or does is going to change ANYTHING.

it's time to sit back and try to enjoy what's left of the ride.
i hear the 'interesting times' part is just around the next bend...

:wheeeee:

[Mopar151]

102. I'm with ya, bud.

Part of the reason I'm here is that, apparently, truth and fact are inordinately important to me. Some of this is due to the trade I hope to return to (machining and inspection), and a lot has to do with my upbringing, by intelligent and determined parents.
Frankly, I feel obligated to shovel up bullshit when I see it here, and encourage those that I see on the right path. I may have convinced a few that my position is better, and I hope some here at least appreciate my point of view. As I do yours. We;ve both had paths through life, I think, that have permitted us some unusual glimpses at our culture. And those glimpses leave us to be dismayed and appaled at some of the things we hear and see - particularly things that people convince themselves of because they lack information, or get their cultural predujices tied in a knot.
We elected a nice guy last time around, and some good people with him. He's gotten some bad advice along the way (!), and he's gettin' no protection from his offensive line, and I think some of his receivers are takin' a few plays off, a la Randy Moss.
I'll keep after the idiots on here, at least for a while longer, and I hope some of the discouraged return (Love ya, Nance!).
And I hope to see you around here, even if it's just to BS in the lounge occcasionally.

[ProgressOnTheMove]

103. I hear you, if pulling away helps things that's good. The only thing is what might be

coming is so big there has to be those ready to ride the storm. It'll hurt before it gets better, but eventually it will get better.

[JohnnyHardhat]

104. We Shall Never Surrender

While it may seem slightly out of touch to quote Churchill's famous speech when discussing American politics it is important to remember that even though our goals have not been met, nor in some cases even heard, we must not allow those of less moral and ethical character and with dubious intent succeed in extinguishing the very thing that separates us from them: Our Spirit.

Stay engaged Dain, and everyone else who looks out for his brothers and sisters, we need you.

[secondwind]

105. You got me 100%....especially the part about plants and hit men whose only

purpose is to tombstone other DUers.

My daughter was tombstoned by the Lounge after several years there. There was a frenzy of tombstoning at the Lounge about a year or so ago.

[1]

106. mee too...

[zeos3]

107. I know the feeling, maybe this will help...

One of my favorite sayings is "No matter how cynical I get, I just can't keep up." It makes me laugh so I said it to a friend of mine so he might be amused as well.

A few days later, he bought me a book by the Roman emperor Marcus Aurelius. (You might recognize him from such movies as Gladiator, with Russel Crowe) My friend pointed out the first passage in book two:

"Begin each day by saying to yourself: Today I am going to encounter people who are ungrateful, arrogant, deceitful, envious, and hostile. People have these characteristics because they do not understand what is good and what is bad. But insofar as I have comprehended the true nature of what is good, namely that it is fine and noble, and the true nature of what is bad, that it is shameful, and the true nature of the person who has gone astray: that he is just like me, not only in the physical sense but also with respect to Intelligence and having a portion of the divine - insofar as I have comprehended all this, I can neither be harmed by any of them, for no one else can involve me in what is shameful and debasing, nor can I be angry with my fellow man or hate him, for we have been made for cooperation, just like the feet, the hands, the eyelids, and the upper and lower teeth. To hinder one another, then, is contrary to Nature, and this is exactly what happens when we are angry and turn away from each other."

Sometimes it makes me feel better and I try to get other people to think about things that way.

Other times, I wake up late and only have time to tell myself "Today I am going to encounter people who are ungrateful, arrogant, deceitful, envious, and hostile" and then I'm out the door to face them.

:toast:

[spicegal]

111. Boy, do I hear you, and share your frustration.

It makes me want to stick my head in the sand and just say screw it. It feels like a losing battle. How do we stand a chance against big money who also control the media, and a Party that despite a sizable majority still doesn't have the will to fight? What a strategy for the Republicans. They waltz in and muck the country up so badly that the next guy can't possibly fix it, and then place the blame on the guy trying to fix the problems they created, which ends up being their path back to power. I don't know what the answer is, but unless progressives can do a better job of educating and/or winning hearts and minds, we don't have much of a chance. And I don't think we can do it unless we have the propaganda equivalent of a Fox News to churn out the propaganda 24/7.

[Th1onein]

112. THE POINT: Your fellow man

Whatever you do might seem insignificant, but it is very important that you do it. I think Ghandi said that. And he was right. As you are not apart from the main, your actions, however insignificant, affect the whole. At the point where you can honestly say that you don't give a shit about your fellow man, you can quit caring and quit trying. We'd hope you would because, at that point, you'd be a Republican.

[Hubert Flottz]

114. When the going gets tough, the tough goes fishin'

But when you go out there on the creek bank and wait for the fish to bite, you'll start thinking about how the GOP has ruined your country and you will be back.

You can run, but you can't hide.

[rosesaylavee]

116. Take a break.

You are needed here and with whatever other outside activities you engage in. Discouragement also means you are thinking, feeling human being and is a normal reaction to this past year. You need to restore yourself and take some time to do so. Take some B vitamin, walk your neighborhood, talk to your 3D friends and family. I am betting that after a break and perhaps after you converse with family and friends who are struggling too, the fire in your belly will return.

Peace to you.

[barbtries]

118. i'm burnt out.

i try to tell myself to stay engaged but it doesn't seem worth it. and i work 10 hours a day - i'm just tired. k n r

[wial]

119. ever since the kids started wearing those stupid preppy

alligator shirts in the mid-late 70s it's been a downhill slide. Moms naming their sons after Alex B Keaton because they wanted a capitalist in the family. Reagan's gutting of the educational system especially the higher humanities.

Still, I don't mind globalization so long as it's us doing the globalizing. Tt isn't, but it could be. High tech capitals in Asia have short lifetimes like atolls in the Pacific. At first they provide cheap high quality services to firms that betray their workers in America, then firms rise up that specialize in headhunting the best among them and hire them away at increasingly high wages until the outsourcing firms cannot be trusted and skilled high tech workers are getting paid a globally competitive wage. Enough to educate their own children, spread a middle class, along with the need for an expanded power base to service it, which means stable, more relatively just social institutions. So it's not the end of the world that some of the happiness we knew is getting exported.

Yes yes I know any country that modernizes experiences a population explosion leading to extreme poverty and malnutrition among children where it was never known before. Thailand in the last half century is a case in point. Modernization is a crime against humanity that is unforgiveable, but it's also fairly inevitable when it happens and we have to make what we can of it.

As for our corrupt and decaying old country, the infrastructure problem is due to the decades of neoliberal hallucinatory incompetence that peaked with Bush. We'll have better bridges again. Education will improve again, as the bard said, it couldn't get much worse.

If you check out reddit, you'll find a massive surge of interest, especially after Tuesday, in forming a new Pirate Party to represent the views of the educated online community. They are abandoning the democrats in droves.

As for me, I feel it too, believe me, but I happen to live in a state where one of our very few great Democratic senators is up for re-election, and I'm heading down to the campaign office tonight to lend a hand.

[lonestarnot]

120. too late to recommend.

[snappyturtle]

121. Kick. nt