There are several ways in which Michael Moore benefits the right-wingers.

[LoZoccolo]

1. He supported Nader in 2000.
2. He peppers long stretches of his cinematic essays which expose important things and make important points with a few out-on-a-limb misleading tactics which are tangential to his main purpose. This serves to discredit the entire idea or exposé in the mind of the public.
3. HAS BEEN REDACTED.
4. And yet he's rich, which simultaneously reinforces the "limosine liberal" charicature.



Who benefits?

[GMA]

1. Michael benefits.

That's always been the point. It's all about Michael.

[chollybocker]

2. 5. He's no James O'Keefe, political filmmaker extrordinaire.

[Xipe Totec]

4. +1 & ROFL!

:rofl:

[uppityperson]

12. MM NEVER took on Lucky Charms. eom

[proud2BlibKansan]

38. !

:rofl:

[Skittles]

3. so now Michael Moore is gonna be under the bus?

WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[unapatriciated]

52. He's been thrown under the bus so many times

They asked him to co-star in Speed 3 'Highway to Hell'

[marmar]

5. Michael Moore can't insert spines in the backs of Democratic amoebas.....

He's done more to put the most pivotal issues into the public square and expose the truth than all of the elected Dems over the last couple of decades combined.

[flvegan]

13. Uh oh.

DLC apologist isn't gonna like that one bit.

Well said!

[LoZoccolo]

16. The best parts of /Farenheit 9/11/ seemed to have been sourced from Greg Palast.

And much of it was a rushed treatment; film really isn't the best medium for what he was going after. Now I'm pretty sure I didn't see any reference to Greg Palast in the movie but if there wasn't, he flubbed an opportunity to get people to a written account that was much more suitable for such detail-oriented arguments.

[EFerrari]

43. People don't go to the talkies to read. n/t

[LoZoccolo]

53. I never said they do. n/t

[EFerrari]

60. Not outright you didn't.

:)

It's all good. I've translated for Palast and appreciate, support his work. And as someone who scoops up info better in text, I think I know what you mean. The thing is, everybody doesn't acquire info most easily that way. Some people get it visually or aurally much more easily.

[leftstreet]

6. IBT...something

I don't know if it's more shocking that you referred to Moore's size, or that you correctly used the word 'tangential.'

:popcorn:

[LoZoccolo]

9. I got rid of it.

I realized it was tangential.

[leftstreet]

11. ...

:spray:

[Name removed]

7. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[sandnsea]

8. Same could be said about you

Michael does a better job than most and exposes topics most won't touch.

You're reinforcing the notion that liberals can't be rich and are fat and lazy, not Michael. He's defying stereotypes, working hard, and I don't think gives too much of a crap about his money.

I do agree if he'd just stick to the absolute truth, we'd be 1,000 times further down the road.

[w4rma]

10. Can't do anything good for anyone without "benefiting the right-wingers" according to some.

Best to be a corrput DLCer taking bribes, then you won't be benefiting the right-wingers. Right?

[Marr]

14. I can see how you'd feel comfortable offering that critique.

:eyes:

[bemildred]

15. Clearly, he's a corporate mole. nt

[David Zephyr]

17. You should be wiser to know who your friends are, the ones you will need.

Clearly, you don't.

You and the usual suspects here who now attack Michael Moore, Keith Olbermann, Rachel Maddow, The Nation Magazine, MoveOn.Org, the Daily Kos, The Huffington Post, and the widely disappointed GLBT community in your continuous drumbeat of rah, rah, rah for President Obama are truly misguided.

You should know who his friends are. Your adulation of a single man over principles is hurting that man.

Our criticism is to make him a better President, one who will keep his promises. Something apparently you can not understand. Ponder that if you possibly can.

[Luminous Animal]

18. Several ways that Moore benefits America.

1. He has supported Nader. A person who has spent his career rallying and organizing citizen participation in opposition to the corporatists and banksters.
2. The fact that corporate media and well-funded wingnuts distort his movies in order to discredit him in the mind of the public does not stop him from plugging along in defense of the American people.
3. He is larger than life with a sense of humor, to boot.
4. He is rich. Who the fuck cares except grasping for straws wingnuts.
5. He is an excellent chronicler of the public record which, in the future, will enhance the public record.
6. He introduced the world to the amazing Ben Hamper.
7. He takes educated well-healed liberals to task for the patronization of the working class.

[The Gunslinger]

23. +1

[bertman]

39. Luminous Animal, YESSSS!!!

[havocmom]

44. Re #5: It is puzzling, the chorus always insisting on utter support for the admin,

and administration that touts transparency, is suddenly rather un-fond of the voices from the left who have long been ripping veils off secrecy. Suddenly, Moore, Maddow and others are trashed by vigorous administration cheerleaders who would shout out any critical voices. It is a sad, sad comment on the insecurity of many.

Transparent are those who keep trying to distract from the long dedicated veil lifters. Their constant denigration of people who speak truth to power, regardless of the letter after their name is a neo-con tactic that is most unbecoming. It does not serve constructive discourse when people try to shoot the mesenger rather than deal with the message.

Thank you for your item by item debunking of OP's false premises. :yourock:

[alarimer]

57. "You're either with us or against us".

We've heard this tune before.

And those who sing it are exactly alike, whether Democrat or Republican. Dissent is patriotic, especially when pointing out the failures of even people we voted for. It is necessary, in fact, to hold Obama's feet to the fire and make him keep those promises.
We are not doing a good enough job of that, obviously, because he has reversed himself far too many times.

[laughingliberal]

63. +1 nt

[QC]

19. Who benefits from your having spent seven years posting right wing flame bait here? n/t

[Lydia Leftcoast]

42. Good question!

n/t

[bullwinkle428]

20. Oh noes! All self-respecting liberals should be living in caves!

:rofl:

[asdjrocky]

21. The same could be said about President Obama.

Only it would be true.

[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Fumesucker]

24. Have you ever made an OP that didn't get instantly unrecced into oblivion?

I'm genuinely interested..

[Luminous Animal]

25. To propagandists, it's not the unrecs that matter...

it's hammering home the narrative.

[Fumesucker]

28. True, but LZ is spectacularly bad at it..

I'm not sure if I've ever seen a propagandist who screws up the narrative as badly as LZ on such an amazingly consistent basis.

[havocmom]

45. It's a class the newt used to teach

and the nation is in bad shape because so many pols took up the method. Used to be the tactic of the right. Now, seems the contagion has spread, doesn't it? Happens here all the time.

[Luminous Animal]

50. Yep.

Create a narrative no matter how clumsy or untrue.

DLOLC Zocolo and others are doing their duty to discredit the liberal left: attention whore... egomaniac... propagandist... poutrage... pony... hypocrite... what have they done... hater... will hurt poor people... will hurt children... rich... fat... old... clown... republican enablers...

Feel free to add your own.

Gringrich's key mechanisms of control:
http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=1276

For liberals...

Often we search hard for words to help us define our opponents. Sometimes we are hesitant to use contrast. Remember that creating a difference helps you. These are powerful words that can create a clear and easily understood contrast. Apply these to the opponent, their record, proposals and their party.

decay... failure (fail)... collapse(ing)... deeper... crisis... urgent(cy)... destructive... destroy... sick... pathetic... lie... liberal... they/them... unionized bureaucracy... "compassion" is not enough... betray... consequences... limit(s)... shallow... traitors... sensationalists...

endanger... coercion... hypocrisy... radical... threaten... devour... waste... corruption... incompetent... permissive attitudes... destructive... impose... self-serving... greed... ideological... insecure... anti-(issue): flag, family, child, jobs... pessimistic... excuses... intolerant...

stagnation... welfare... corrupt... selfish... insensitive... status quo... mandate(s)... taxes... spend(ing)... shame... disgrace... punish (poor...)... bizarre... cynicism... cheat... steal... abuse of power... machine... bosses... obsolete... criminal rights... red tape... patronage

[Bluebear]

66. +1

[Electric Monk]

32. Every once in awhile he posts a "K&R this thread if you support Democrats" thread

just for variety.

Equally useful?

ymmv

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

55. Those have me laughing my ass off...I guess there is so much rejection one can take!

:rofl:

[howaboutme]

26. Moore has been consistent

He is for average Americans and not just for politicians. Politicians have always been about more power for themselves and for their friends and not necessarily for improvements for you and I. Support America first and politicians second. Nador has consistently hammered on those who are against average Americans.

[omega minimo]

27. And what has your body of work contributed to the betterment of society?

Your accusation is absurd. So easy being a critic.

[apocalypsehow]

29. I agree with you only on #1, can kinda see #4. Still giving a rec because at least you try to engage

an issue - unlike your serial UnReccers, who must just wait with baited breath for your every new OP to hit that UnRec button.

[athenasatanjesus]

30. The establishment rulers control what few liberals we are allowed to see

So of course the ones we get to see are going to have flaws that help the the establishment in the long run,that does not however mean people like Michael Moore or Ralph Nader are corrupt,or that they should stop fighting,they take their opportunity and use it as best as they can to inform people as well as they are allowed to.

[tabbycat31]

31. he also deserves credit for benefiting the left

I woke up politically (I always had politics in the back of my mind in every election year before 2000, and I could care less then-- the first one I voted in)

I saw Fahrenheit 9/11 and went home to donate $20 to the Kerry campaign. I've been involved politically in one way or another since.

In fact I just came home from my county's Democratic party meeting.

[20score]

33. I normally don't comment on posts I don't agree with, and try to be polite when I do.

But this post pisses me off.

1. A lot of people supported Nader in 2000 and were under the impression that voting your conscience wasn't a bad thing. Moore also asked people in swing states to vote for Gore. And in 2004 he begged Nader not to run. Plus, Gore still won the popular vote. Quit blaming Nader for what the Supreme Court and he Republicans did.
2. He tries and in my opinion, succeeds at making entertaining documentaries. If you have proof of any lies - then point them out.
3.?
4. What the hell is that? Only poor people are supposed to be able to see or speak out against injustice? All rich people have to be self-serving, greedy bastards or they're hypocrites? Who wrote that asinine rule, Hannity? And if he did, thinking people aren't obligated to follow it. The right wing will attack him, or anyone else who speaks out against unjust wars and harmful greed. (Or anyone who stands in the way of their power, for that matter.) Decent people should be defending those who risk ridicule to better the lives of others, not cowering before oppressors and their ludicrous talking points.

[bertman]

40. Thank you, 20score. Excellent.

[Luminous Animal]

46. #3 was... He's fat.

[omega minimo]

47. Excellent post. Thank you

"Decent people should be defending those who risk ridicule to better the lives of others, not cowering before oppressors and their ludicrous talking points."

[laughingliberal]

64. We should certainly attack rich people who stick up for those less fortunate

And leave all those working class and poor folks to speak for themselves since everyone listens to them. :sarcasm:

[MadHound]

34. If nothing else, I must say that you are both dependable and predictable

Soon as somebody, anybody dares to criticize Obama, you trot right out to smear and slam them with baseless bullshit.

[TankLV]

37. hear hear...

very sad...

we need MORE MMs!!!

[Canuckistanian]

35. MM hates America....

Or at least what it's rapidly becoming

[Iggo]

36. Look over here, people!

Michael Moore!
Ralph Nader!
Limousine Liberals!

Pay no attention to the O'keefe behind the curtain!

[Bluebear]

65. interesting aint it

[Lydia Leftcoast]

41. Oh my God, how dare a leftist grow up poor and make money through his own initiative!

Gee, Hoof, do you have any more Republican talking points to spout at us this evening?

[havocmom]

48. Yeah, there is lots of talk about bootstrap pulling on the other side of the aisle

but there is sure a lot of attacks when somebody actually DOES it ;)

[omega minimo]

49. it's so easy for some to forget the courage, conviction and vision it took to do what he did.

:hi:

[donheld]

51. Blind Follower to the max

[LanternWaste]

54. Those who enjoy his films.

"Who benefits?"
Those who enjoy his films. :shrug:



I can see number one as an absolute. Numbers two and four are merely conjecture and opinion though.

[whatchamacallit]

56. Utter Bullshit!

"STFU everybody, the right could use it against us!!!"

[Ignis]

58. Nice to see that some DUers are still bullet-proof.

No matter how much wank they post.

"He's fat" was one of your amazing, insightful reasons to hate Moore? Really?

:dunce:

[H2O Man]

59. I like him.

And I respect him, too. He's not perfect, just like the rest of us. But, I think the good that he does far outweighs any negatives associated with him.

[Bluebear]

61. Same to you, I'm sure. ("limosine charicature", sic sic hoo boy)

[Electric Monk]

62. Michael Moore's a pretty cool guy. Eh speaks truth to power and doesn't afraid of anything.

:think: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=7302654&mesg_id=7302667