Yes for Oregon: "It took Courage"

[depakid]

Facing a budget crunch that threatened to close schools early, lay off teachers and slash healthcare benefits, Oregon voters ended two decades of tax scrimping Tuesday by approving higher taxes on corporations and the wealthy.

The two ballot measures passed handily in a referendum watched closely around the country as a signal of whether voters are ready to approve targeted tax hikes to bail out cash-starved state treasuries.

...The two measures would raise more than $700 million to help close a gap in the state budget that at one point reached $4 billion.

Kevin Looper, who ran the campaign to pass the measures, said the vote was a signal that predictions of a general conservative retrenchment following the Republican victory in this month's Senate race in Massachusetts were premature.

"I think this is firmly a progressive, populist moment. It just takes leaders to stand up and say what we're about, and make sure things are clear to voters," he said. "Because when the choice gets made clear like that, voters will almost always make the right decision."

Looper said the credit goes to Democratic leaders in the Legislature, who passed the tax increases against nearly unanimous Republican opposition.

More from the Sam Zell's bewildered LA Times: http://www.latimes.com/news/nation-and-world/la-na-oregon-tax27-2010jan27,0,3341290.story

[cali]

1. that is good news. yep, kudos to Oregon.

[roguevalley]

12. they fund schools with property taxes. this is a win. I love you, Oregon!

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

35. That's how most communities fund schools.

[Political Heretic]

2. Credit actually goes to the people, not Democratic leaders

The people are the ones that demanded the Democratic legislature act, and threatened to demand their seats of they didn't.

The people are the one who formed grassroots movements to work their asses off when measures 66 and 67 came to be.

The people are the ones pounding the pavement, and the people are the ones who turn out at something like 60% to soundly approve these measures.

Had the people not been "out there" on this one at all steps in the process, politicians would not have done anything as far as risking raising taxes is concerned. It's not "safe."

That's my opinion, as someone who has deep roots here, and now lives here in Oregon once again.

I was proud to vote yes on 66 and 67

[sandnsea]

3. The legislature passed the taxes in the first place

So they did lead on this issue, and most of the information I've seen on it has been television or mail. Glad it passed, the schools really need the money.

[Political Heretic]

26. They didn't "lead" on the issue. They were pushed against the wall by US

You don't live here. I do.

The television or mail you've seen on it have been by activists grassroots campaigns and non-partisan social justice orgs raising lots and lots of money in less than 100$ contributions from the PEOPLE.

[lame54]

30. My daughter lives west of portland, she didn't mention this when we last talked.

but she has a lot going on right now.
I'm sure she voted, do you vote by mail for everything?
How fare is Eugene from Beaverton?
I will be there next month.

on edit sorry didn't check to see who was logged on should have posted this under my name ..unapatriciated, hubby is lame54

[Political Heretic]

31. Eugene is roughly 2 hours from Beaverton

We vote by mail, or you can take your ballot to drop boxes that are located all over the place - but the ballots do get mailed to you, yes.

I think its such a forward-thinking way to do things. "Turnout" in even this special election was about 60%

[hfojvt]

4. I would not exactly say they passed 'handily'

over 45% of voters voted against both measures

http://ballotpedia.org/wiki/index.php/Oregon_Tax_Hike_Vote,_Ballot_Measures_66_and_67_(2010)

Kinda sad that so many are willing to stand up for the top 10%.

[depakid]

7. A spread of close to 10% with an election called within a half an hour-

when the media, pundits, and conventional "wisdom" touted "narrowing polls" and "it'll go down to the wire" seems pretty handily.

That aside, though- I think we can all agree that the percentages are rather sad, especially in rural areas that suffer most- and yet still vote to impoverish themselves, their children and their communities even further.

[LWolf]

19. The robo calls coming in

to my rural area all warned about job losses.

"We need jobs, not more taxes," was the mantra. It's an effective message for those in rural areas, who are less literate, poorer, and suffering from the loss of jobs and homes.

It was also bullshit, of course, but with the local paper staunchly trumpeting the same message EVERY DAY in the last weeks, the population definitely got the message.

Our teacher's union worked hard to get the message out, but we used live calls, not robo calls, and the local paper spent time attacking us as well.

[Political Heretic]

33. The main rason the job loss meme didn't work is because we already have 3rd highest unemployment

in the nation.

Even when our State had ridiculous tax laws like the 10$ corporate minimum, and the lowest taxes of California, and Washington (and still do in most cases) "jobs" were not not being created by the benevolent small businesses or big corporations.

In fact, despite all that our unemployment was at the top of the entire country.

Marginal increases in revenue generation are not "epic" for anyone. They're not going to causes businesses to fail or leave in large numbers. They are not going to solve all of our state's financial problems either.

[LWolf]

36. What 66 and 67 do

for my little district is cut the budget deficit in half.

Next year's budget will still be 3.4 million less than this year, which is 5 million less than last year. We still face cuts, and possible job losses.

66 and 67 saves about 25 jobs for the '10-'11 school year.

We are grateful for those jobs.

[Political Heretic]

37. You don't have to convince me :)

I'm not disagreeing with you.

[Political Heretic]

27. Um, that's handily.

[1]

5. if jobs stay? yep, courageous. if not? ummm... stupid. we'll see...

[depakid]

6. The usual Republican talking point- which has been spread far and wide

Two ways to look at it really:

1. Someone's been listening to propaganda ala Fox "news" and has limited understanding of economics, based on facts and evidence; or

2. Cowardice and skittishness- fear of standing up for one's values and beliefs (if in fact, they really are one's values and beliefs).

Then again- it may well be both.

[Name removed]

9. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[depakid]

10. Reality- as you say requires evidence- and the evidence is tax changes don't bear out your assertion

Recognizing Republican talking points on the other hand, only requires observation- and a search engine.

And- once again, your post is replete with them.

Right down to the deceptive name opponents of the measures chose for their front group.

[1]

11. heh. i have no idea what you are talking about. but let's watch and learn, eh? einstein?

[depakid]

13. Some of us have already watched and learned about Republican talking points and failed ideology

For example, the last time Oregon look the lead- with a minimum wage increase indexed to the rate of inflation, we heard the same sky is falling hogwash from the usual suspects- including the Chamber of Commerce.

What happened?

Unemployment fell, businesses didn't flee- but rather opened up across the state.

You see- macroeconomics is a much broader deal, and people look for all sorts of things when considering where to locate- some of the important ones (which any realtor will tell you) are the quality of schools (and the quality of life in general).

Moreover- an educated workforce, backed by quality universities is a bigger draw and a greater incentive for new, sustainable growth industries in the 21st Century than the race to the bottom "let's be like third world" states might every provide.

And here's the kicker (so to speak)- Oregonians have the courage to foresee this and act -just as they have in the past, even though their current economic conditions are rough- and the current mix of industries has left the state more vulnerable than most over the years to downturns in the business cycle.

[1]

14. heh, ok, then cool. you have this all figured out. science and foreseeing. i hope you are right.

just back the fuck up accusing anyone that questions your "absolute" logic as being about republican talking points.

you are probably more wrong than right.

and you know that...

[depakid]

15. The talking points are what they are-

They've been all over the media and comment sections of the papers for months. Same way they have been before on taxation, minimum wage, health care issues, school, parks & library funding and then some.

Every election cycle the same tired old saws get drug out of the closet, no matter how many times they've been proven wrong.

Sometimes, in some places, they succeed in scaring people into voting against their and their communities' own best interest. Other times, in other places, people wise up.

This is an instance of the latter- and one that, in the face of adversity- took courage.

A little something that all Americans- and our representatives in Congress could use quite a bit more of.

[1]

16. that as may be... but you, buddy, accusing me of being a republican. i just spoke my mind...

i don't live in oregon. i don't know all of your "talking points." or of all of the media comments.

i just spoke my mind... you could apologize. to me. here on this forum. for that attack.

or not.

[hfojvt]

23. and your mind was filled with Republican talking points

Often those two go together. That is, when somebody posts Republican talking points it's because they are a Republican, or very, very conservative, or maybe just rich.

Not always though, because Republican talking points are everywhere and lots of people drink them up, just like a dog lapping at a puddle of anti-freeze without knowing that it is a deadly poison.

But I am sure that I have done the same thing on other issues, like abortion (where sometimes I am only trying to clarify what the other side does think, instead of stating what I think). I also do not think that something is automatically proven to be untrue just because it is a Republican talking point.

However, in your case you were predicting the future and being pessimistic about it, based on an apparent belief that higher taxes on rich people are bad for an economy. But some economists do not agree with that, and here's their reasoning
http://www.cbpp.org/cms/?fa=view&id=1032

[tavalon]

17. You are arguing with a ghost

Well, to me, it's a ghost. It's one of the seven people I've placed on ignore. Based on your side of the argument, I'm quite sure I should keep this one on ignore.

[LWolf]

20. We're already at work today

in my school district, moving forward thankful that our budget cuts for next year will be half what we thought they would. We hope to avoid more losses.

[cascadiance]

21. So what business is going to leave to save $140?

Most businesses will not do this.

And the more other states that start doing this, then businesses at some point will have to just suck it up with added costs of taxation, and stop paying too much to their CEOs!

[HuckleB]

24. Jobs are not the issue here.

Oregon actually does not have restrictive taxes. That is a perception that does not match reality.

In the '90s, I worked for a business publication company, and I had to read most of the nation's business magazines. For several years, Oregon's businesses rated it as being very business friendly, especially for small businesses, and Portland was singled out as being a great for a small business. Then the PBA decided they wanted an even better deal, and they began pushing propaganda about how Portland was not business friendly. Despite no tax increases and no policy changes, suddenly those magazines were no longer rating Portland and Oregon as business friendly, largely because the businesses had motive to change perception. Propaganda is successful, but, at least in this case, it's BS.

Some actual data can be found here where Oregon is rated as the 14th "best" state for business tax climate:... See More

http://www.taxfoundation.org/research/topic/52.html

This five-year-old study also shows Oregon's business tax burden as being very low:

http://www.ocpp.org/cgi-bin/display.cgi?page=issue040123

And another piece on the matter:

http://www.blueoregon.com/2009/03/oregon-business-taxes-were-number-2-lowest.html

And one more:

http://blog.oregonlive.com/mapesonpolitics/2008/08/oregon_state_and_local_tax_bur.html

I say it's time to drop the propaganda of the campaign, and look at the reality of the situation. The following piece does a mildly fair job of doing just that.

http://www.oregonlive.com/opinion/index.ssf/2010/01/measures_66_and_67_weighing_th.html

[HuckleB]

25. Little storm forecast in business climate if issues pass

http://www.registerguard.com/csp/cms/sites/web/news/cityregion/24367821-41/oregon-business-tax-state-measures.csp

[Political Heretic]

28. God the stupidity never, ever, ends.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

8. Excellent news...

I'd hoped this would be the outcome.

Maybe it can happen here.

[LWolf]

18. Yes, in spite of the relentless efforts of the opposition.

My local paper had an anti-measures editorial almost every day, along with many anti-teacher's union pieces to go with it, and a front-page "news" article based on one republican economists "opinion" about the measures.

This weekend, my phone logged 9 robo calls from anti-measure groups; Monday I got home from work to find 7 new calls, 5 last night.

Of course, I voted two weeks ago.

I am relieved. Now my school district will only have to cut another 3 million from the budget, after 5 million, 43 jobs, many services, and 21 school days cut last year. We were looking at about 7 million in more cuts.

We still may lose jobs, but it will hopefully not be as devastating. We will probably vote to cut our pay again to save as many of those jobs as possible.

[RT Atlanta]

22. Bold move conceptually

And I hope that the move is sucessful for the state.

My state (Georgia) has been taken over by republicans and with their "war on education" the populace seems to have no tolerance for truly making the "tough decisions" that will benefit our state in the long run.

Congratulations to the people of Oregon... man, do I miss living in the Pacific Northwest! :)

[TheKentuckian]

29. A little courage but even more so horsesense.

[gratuitous]

32. Yeah, not terribly courageous of us Oregonians

But for once to see that we the people could enact some taxes on the state's biggest winners. It's time for them to help pull the wagon, instead of riding for free. The nonsense about "job killing taxes" was so much hoo-ha. We've already killed plenty of jobs in our "business friendly" climate.

I clearly remember back in the early 1980s a ballot measure to repeal Oregon's unitary tax on business. It was supposed to make Delaware and South Dakota look like Marxist havens of Bolshevism, and business would flock (flock, I tell you!) to Oregon. Well, nobody really "flocked" to Oregon, and our schools and roads went to hell for 20 years. Capital told us that Oregon was a nice place, but gee, those lousy schools and service infrastructure? Not so very attractive. We're going to go to California, or Washington, or North Carolina, or Alabama.

Maybe Oregon can start climbing out of the hole it's dug for itself.

[Political Heretic]

34. 3rd highest unemployment in the country - that's what our pro-business everything attitude got us