Here's the thing about illegal tapings.

[The Backlash Cometh]

I support civil disobedience if there is an overriding public interest. If you work in a chemical plant and you know they're dumping chemicals that are poisoning the aquifer which is a source of drinking water, that's a good reason to gather information even if you have to gather that information in a way that will surely land you in jail. You have to accept that there will be a cost for your activism, and you have to be prepared to pay that cost.

The question is, what, exactly, did O'Keefe think he was going to get from Mary Landrieu's office? Was this just an attempt to gather information that would embarrass her like the Acorn stunt? Was it to gather intelligence in order to undermine her re-election?

As an act of civil disobedience, what did he hope to gain versus the penalty of getting caught?

That's the part that I can't fathom. I don't see what was in Landrieu's office that warranted his actions. The gain was purely for political advantage, and that is just not enough to justify an act of civil disobedience.

[Vincardog]

1. Let me get this straight. You are looking for a rational reason for a wingnut do do something?

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
They are not rational dude. IF they were they would be liberals not wingnuts.

[The Backlash Cometh]

3. This will be tried in court. (Hopefully)

And the lawyers will be coming with rational reasoning. I'm just proactively trying to figure out how they're going to justify it.

[CoffeeCat]

2. Blackmailing/wiretapping has to be pervasive...

The wingnut neocons has slowly amassed power in this country. They've been working on this for
decades and finally reached the pinnacle of power during the Bush years.

I think it's obvious that part of their long-term plan involves wiretapping, spying on and
blackmailing those who won't play.

It would shock me if there were politicians--at nearly every level--who weren't being
wiretapped or blackmailed.

The corruption and corporatism began with the neocons. Today we see that it's infiltrated
both parties. It's taken a while to engulf the Democrats. Strong arming, blackmailing and
corrupting an entire party takes time.

Anyone really think these Fascists haven't killed people to get their way? Wiretapping
and blackmailing is a walk in the park for these criminals.

[The Backlash Cometh]

4. All that Patriot Act nonsense and that snooping from the telecoms,

maybe they're all linked to this very act? Is that farfetched?

[sinkingfeeling]

5. Why would you even consider attempting to place a wire tape in a federal building an act of civil

disobedience?

[The Backlash Cometh]

6. Good catch.

Criminal offense vs. civil. The term "civil disobedience" has its own meaning, suggesting personal self-sacrifice to protect the common good. It does not involve an act of violence and generally involves breaking a civil code. That's the way I would loosely define it. But, what would you call it if your intentions are the same, but it involves breaking a criminal code?

Good question. One must cogitate.

[sinkingfeeling]

7. I'd call it a crime. Intention doesn't play a part in the federal criminal code.

[The Backlash Cometh]

8. Hold that thought.

Someday you might be arguing it from another perspective. In the same way that someone had to make a leap of faith in order to give us the Pentagon Papers.

Personally, I don't believe that O'Keefe's situation warrants that benchmark.

[sinkingfeeling]

9. I see no difference. Those who obtained the Pentagon Papers were in fact charged with crimes.

The Justice Dept. obtained a court injunction against further publication on national security grounds, but the Supreme Court ruled (June 30) that constitutional guarantees of a free press overrode other considerations, and allowed further publication. The government indicted (1971) Daniel Ellsberg, a former government employee who made the Pentagon Papers available to the New York Times, and Anthony J. Russo on charges of espionage, theft, and conspiracy. On May 11, 1973, a federal court judge dismissed all charges against them because of improper government conduct.


http://www.infoplease.com/ce6/history/A0838198.html

[gratuitous]

11. Ellsberg was charged with a crime

But he knew a larger crime had been committed, namely the actions of the Executive and the military. He was also willing to be charged with a lesser crime in service of the greater good for the country. Think of speeding through a red light at an empty intersection to prevent a murder. Both are crimes, but if you're successful and you stop the murder, the chances that a cop is going to write you a citation for running a red light are pretty slim.

I don't see where O'Keefe had any knowledge of any crime by Sen. Landrieu, and indeed he hasn't (yet) alleged that she has committed a crime. The usual method of going about that is to expose the evidence that a crime was committed, not lie one's way into a federal office in hopes of gathering some damning evidence.

[sabrina 1]

10. They've already told the FBI that they were just trying to see

how her staff would react to having their phone service interrupted. Doesn't sound much like an act of 'civil' or 'criminal' disobedience. It sounds like what they were charged with. People don't get to play 'tricks' especially 'dirty tricks' on US Senators just for the hell of it, especially when they are motivated by politics. There is nothing in their excuse to the FBI that even claims they were doing some kind of public service.

Otoh, if they lied to the FBI, then there will be charges for that also. You can't lie to a Federal Agent.

They should have taken the fifth if they were smart, but then noone, except for a few dozen Republican members of Congress and Fox news ever said they were smart.

[gkhouston]

12. If this were the truth (and I don't think it is), then why was Dai charged?

Suddenly it's a crime to be sitting in a parked car outside a Federal building while your yahoo friends jack with the phones? Supposedly Dai didn't have a "listening device" but merely a cell phone or walkie-talkie. Has he admitted to actively talking them through this? :shrug:

[sabrina 1]

13. Good question ~ I think they were all charged under the same

statute, so far anyhow. It does seem strange that he would be charged if he was just minding his own business, sitting in a car.