The O'Keefe Wiretapping Operation May Be More Serious Than We First Imagined...

[Blackhatjack]

It would stand to reason that if a criminal operation had been planned using O'Keefe and friends, and it blew up, that those responsible for backing and planning it would try to portray it as a 'youthful indiscretion' and characterize it as 'not intending to commit a crime.'

However, on review there likely were more sinister purposes at play here. And I reach that conclusion by looking at 'who' was likely to be the target of the information that would have been illegally obtained, and looking at 'how' that information likely would have been used if the caper had gone off as planned.

Democratic Senator Landrieu was involved in negotiation of additional $$ for medicaid reimbursement for her state during the Healthcare Reform Bill vote in the US Senate. Such is not the rare case among members of Congress where the vote will be razor thin, and every vote is needed. In fact Sen Ben Nelson did the same thing.

But think for a minute -- sure it would be embarrassing if Landrieu was wiretapped and a tape emerged which revealed that she sounded like she was 'selling her vote.'

But that had already happened before this incident.

With Sen Ben Nelson asking that the funding for his state be stripped out of the bill, it would be reasonable to expect that the Obama Administration might contact Sen Landrieu about stripping out her state's funding as well(but which had not yet happened). In that event, the taped voices could have been top Obama Admin Officials--or President Obama himself.

It would not be that far fetched to think that the real target was President Obama and his top officials.

Next, Sen Vitter steps up and puts a hold on President Obama's choice to replace US Attorney Flanagan(who's son was one of the perpetrators) UNLESS Obama promises to rehire the Assistant US Attorney Lettner who was appointed by Bush and in charge of prosecuting O'Keefe, Flanagan and others. This would keep the prosecution in the hands of a Bush appointee, and would amount to manipulation of a pending criminal investigation by a US Senator.

There are other people and organizations involved with the O'Keefe gang, and the decision whether to investigate these others will rest with the US Attorney assigned to prosecute O'Keefe and friends.

There were technology issues here. Who helped them plan it and obtain the technology to tap and surveil the telephone system? And who would have the inside knowledge of how the telephone system was configured, and how to subvert it without being discovered?

Sure O'Keefe and friends appear to be buffoons caught in a prank gone wrong. But until we get more answers, and cooperation, from them, this matter needs to be handled carefully and comprehensively by law enforcement investigators.

[snagglepuss]

1. A very interesting analysis. nt

[Skink]

2. Doesn't everybody use cell phones now?

[npk]

112. Cell phones are even easier to tap than land line phones

In fact much easier. You can actually buy the tools necessary to trace cell phone calls and even copy them from generic websites on the Internet.

[customerserviceguy]

116. I'm sure O'Keefe found his tapping equipment from those places, as well

He's just a puke who is completely full of himself, and if he had consulted anyone with a living memory of the word "Watergate", they would have refused to help him.

Got too damned big for his britches, as my Granny used to say. His silly ACORN stunt convinced him that he was hot shit, and he figured all the reich wingers would come to his rescue if he had the goods on Landrieu. They're likely to stay at least a mile away from him now.

[PatrynXX]

143. which is how Miley Cyrus found her pix on the network

gotta keep an eye on your Bluetooth...

think Paris Hilton got nailed that way too. o_O
Rich Famous & dumb ir Rich Famous and Naive

[Bluenorthwest]

155. No, everybody does not use cell phones now

and those in power of any kind certainly do not use them all the time. You'd have to be nuts.

[Maraya1969]

176. In an office people use land lines at their desks!

[FBaggins]

3. It's only "more serious" if there is any "there" there.

His assumption that something crooked (or seemingly crookoed) could be caught on tape is not the same thing as something crooked actually going on.

Sure... he caught ACORN with their pants down, but that doesn't mean he has some magical ability to identify corruption. It's most likely that he suspects corruption all across the left. No reason to believe that it was there to catch in this case.

It's also quite possible that this one office wasn't his only target. He may have been trying (or perhaps already he already tried) to tap a number of Democrats.

[MattBaggins]

15. People are bieng way to kind to him

He was trying to get goods to blackmail her as far as i know. I haven't yet heard him deny this yet, which leaves so many more unanswered questions.

We need to get Glenn Beck on this.

[DL in SoCal]

16. Wiretap sweep

It's a good bet that House and Senate Dems are having their phones and offices swept today for bugs.

[livetohike]

93. Welcome to DU!

:hi:

[sabrina 1]

21. Actually he didn't 'catch ACORN with their pants down.

Clearly you have not followed the facts that emerged almost as soon as people had a chance to study those videos. There was no wrong-doing on ACORN's part. The Media and Congress were the ones caught with their pants down and anyone who didn't take the time to take a closer look at that little stunt.

ACORN has been vindicated and are currently suing O'Keefe, Giles and Breitbart and hopefully they will be charged criminally in the three states where they violated the law in the process of getting the film for their heavily doctored tapes.

A second Federal lawsuit has been filed against O'Keefe and Giles this past week and it's possible that there will be several others by the workers who were smeared in those doctored tapes.

A court has ruled against Congress' decision to defund ACORN and a Congressional investigation into alleged corruption has found that there was none, as well as another internal investigation.

Any corruption that occurred was engaged in by O'Keefe/Giles and whoever is funding their illegal activiities.

I really wish that at least on a Democratic board the false, rightwing smears against ACORN, especially now that they have been debunked pretty thoroughly would not be repeated.

The reason they go after ACORN is no mystery. ACORN registers poor people and minorities to vote. The hero of the O'Keefe element in this society is Paul Wycliffe, a man who believed that 'we do not want' ordinary Americans to vote.

There was no need for 'corruption' or any suspicion of it, that is why they tried to manufacture it. There is no mystery surrounding their hatred for ACORN, they get out the vote and ensure that people are not discriminated against because they are minorities and/or poor. That's all it takes to get these political thugs after you. They do not believe in Democracy and they undermine it every way they can. Let's stop shifting the blame to their targets.

As far as Landrieu is concerned, they probably just want her seat for a rabidly rightwing, 'Christian' Republican Senator. And finding or manufacturing 'corruption' is what they do. Not very well of course, and only if people choose to remain blind which is what happened with ACORN.

[FBaggins]

31. Sorry... no...

I don't buy it.

There's no question that HIS actions in those films were questionable at best... that tapes were edited and/or shown in the most unfavorable light.

But ACORN was most definitely caught with their pants down and they weren't "vindicated" (except perhaps by this current story) by anyone other than their own internal "investigation" (something they have a terrible track record of). The incidents shown on the tapes were also far from the only problems that organization has had.

[defendandprotect]

38. That's not true at all . . . EVEN DOWN to the fact that in the office, O'Keefe was

wearing normal clothing -- but edited in film of him in Pimp's clothing -- !!!

We have no idea how else the films may have been "edited" --

ACORN has been proven to have done nothing wrong --

This is right-wing spin you're throwing here --

[alstephenson]

50. I couldn't agree more.

[madokie]

54. It shouldn't be repeated here

this right wing bullshit as you say

[FBaggins]

55. Oh please...

where were they "proven to have done nothing wrong"?

Though I'm not sure where your "not true at all" part is coming from. I said that the tapes were a problem and that he was nto to be trusted.

Doesn't change the fact that a number of their employees acted WAY beyond the acceptable range. Did one of the women from that first tape come forward and say "I never said any of that!" ???

[defendandprotect]

66. Evidently, you've only been watching Fox news . ..

try to catch up --

The films are fake --

[FBaggins]

73. So ACORN fired those people for no reason at all?

The films weren't "fake"... (implying that none of it ever happened)... they were "doctored" (making things look worse than they were). The actual events were still bad enough to question both their hiring practices and training policies.

[defendandprotect]

86. Nonsense . . . lawyers don't take chances with their licenses . . . this was a sleazy frame up ...

Would you?

I suppose you would have also believed any faked eavesdroppping they

might have released re Sen. Landrieu, as well?

[csziggy]

131. Try this about ACORN - read the report from an independent investigator

ACORN employees caught in those undercover videos advising a couple posing as a pimp and a prostitute on how to break the law acted unprofessionally and inappropriately, but did nothing illegal, a report commissioned by ACORN and conducted by an independent investigator has found.

The report, by former Massachusetts Attorney General Scott Harshbarger, recommends nine steps for ACORN to take in order to regain public trust in the wake of the scandal, including that it return to its "core competency - community organizing and citizen engagement empowerment, with related services."

On the key question of potential illegal conduct, it finds:

While some of the advice and counsel given by ACORN employees and volunteers was clearly inappropriate and unprofessional, we did not find a pattern of intentional, illegal conduct by ACORN staff; in fact, there is no evidence that action, illegal or otherwise, was taken by any ACORN employee on behalf of the videographers.

<SNIP>

You can read the full report here (pdf): http://www.proskauer.com/files/uploads/report2.pdf

http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/12/acorn_report_finds_no_illegal_conduct.php

[FBaggins]

151. I'll be happy to wait for that independent report when you get around to posting it.

What you've posted was their INTERNAL "investigation" that supposedly cleared them. There was no independent investigation. And the LAST team they brought in to do an investigation (of the embezzelment) was fired and then publicly belittled (to this day)... you think that doesn't impact the next guy's findings when they are the ones paying him?

We were talking up-thread about GE and other corporations who have been given a pass on corruption... would you accept it if THEY said they brought in an investigator to look in to all this and he cleared them?

[Jefferson23]

174. The Nation: ACORN's Vindication: Too Little, Too Late

January 6, 2010

On Christmas Eve, buried on page A24 of my edition of the New York Times, was this story: "The controversial community organizing group Acorn has not broken any laws in the last five years, according to a Congressional Research Service report released Tuesday evening."

Indeed, the CRS report—requested in September by House Judiciary Committee Chairman John Conyers and House Financial Services Committee Chairman Barney Frank—finds no instances in which ACORN "violated the terms of federal funding in the last five years," and no instances of individuals allegedly registered to vote improperly by ACORN "attempting to vote at the polls."

Good to see that the New York Times ran the story. But the placement and the timing — after 18 months of screaming headlines and attacks vilifying the anti-poverty group — is reminiscent of the McCarthy era when individuals and organizations were ruined by allegations that ran as front page news, while later evidence that vindicated them was relegated to the back pages. There was little accountability for the false accusations, little redemption for those whose lives had been shattered.

A "new McCarthyism" is seen in the manner in which guilt by association has been pursued by the likes of Glenn Beck and "mainstream" GOP leadership (if there is such a thing). A report by People for the American Way describes, for example, how "attacks on widely respected judicial nominee David Hamilton treated his one-month job as a canvasser for ACORN thirty years ago when he was 22 years old as if it had constituted a major portion of his career."

In the case of ACORN, not only does the CRS Report refute recent charges of financial impropriety and voter fraud against it, but so does a report by Scott Harshbarger, former Attorney General of Massachusetts and former president of Common Cause, whom ACORN quickly turned to for an independent audit when the damaging video tapes surfaced.

more here:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=122275494

[Cherchez la Femme]

111. & you're somehow surprised?

This guy is a joke, a touch nicer OMC

[Raster]

163. I wouldn't be that charitable. I think it's obvious what purpose it serves here...

[alstephenson]

49. Looks like the MSM has you pretty well convinced...

The EVIL ACORN!!! Oh, and do you have any links about those other "problems" the organization has had? Thanks.

[FBaggins]

61. Are you saying that you never heard of any of their troubles before O'Keefe?

They brought in supposedly independent investigators to look at embezelment case (multiple millions of dollars that could have gone to community needs). When they weren't happy with the fact that the investigation made them look bad, they fired the investigators. More than one employee was convicted of fraud.

The list could go on and on. Suffice to say that it was well beyond anything that a few doctored videos could explain away.

[alstephenson]

71. Links?

Sounds like regurgitated MSM propaganda to me.

[FBaggins]

72. You can't be bothered to even look?

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/09/us/09embezzle.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/06/us/06acorn.html

[FBaggins]

74. Some more: "Ousted ACORN members seek federal criminal investigation"

Note that the source is not Fox or Britebart... but former ACORN board members and that all of these links are from events that occured before the "pimp" was out of diapers (oh alright... before he was "filming").

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news/s_606173.html

[alstephenson]

77. That's proof?

"being investigated", "alleged", "disgruntled"

[FBaggins]

82. Yes

Those aren't recent stories. And they aren't really challenged by the organization either (except in the amount that was stolen).

The former founder was (sorta) fired.

[defendandprotect]

87. That was also settled -- and ALL of the funds returned to ACORN . . .

[FBaggins]

89. That means that they're clean to you?

Take a look at how it was "settled".

BOTH parties to the "Settlement" have things to hide. Should they be judged to have "clean hands" again when the guy who steals the funds (it should be pointed out - FROM the people ACORN helps) comes to a "settlement" with the guys who covered up the theft? And what about when the funds are "returned" to ACORN by anonymous parties that had nothing to do with the theft?

IOW... the founder's brother now gets to keep the stolen money and the "fired" founder still has a paying job... while party(ies) unknown supply the cash.

[defendandprotect]

92. Current ACORN leader -- female -- explained this on C-span . . .

ALL funds returned -- AGAIN . . . ALL THE FUNDS WERE RETURNED.

Try the C-span interview with her --

[FBaggins]

96. I've seen it... you're ignoring the facts.

The guy who STOLE the money did NOT return it.

Someone else (who remains nameless) made a contribution.

So the founder's brother steals money from the poor... the founder hides this from the board (around here we call that an acomplice)... then the board finds out and THEY hide it from the rest of us (including firing anyone who thought that was improper)... then when they're caught they "fire" the founder (except he still has a job) and "settle" with a payment plan for brother. He pays a TINY percentage of what he stole (again, not from the profits of a corporation, but directly from the poor that ACORN is SUPPOSED to serve) and they LAUNDER some other guy's contributions and call that "paying back" what was stolen. (Which, BTW is NOT the same thing as "ALL THE FUNDS WERE RETURNED")

Then they try to spin that nothing bad really happened and... here's the best part... despite the fact that the Democratic AG is still investigating the crime and says that the current leader is LYING... you actually BUY her spin???

That's fine and all... I could use the free entertainment when I expect tonight's SOTU to be painfull... but please don't expect me to fall for it.

[defendandprotect]

101. I'm ignorning your facts . . .

PLUS at the moment I can't do searches --

Was there a government investigation of this?

If so, what was the disposition?

Someone else will have to supply the info on it because I can't right now.

Keep in mind that we've had GE defrauding the government on government contracts for

decades ... they've never been barred from further participation!

Same with pharmaceutical companies -- no one prosecuted --- huge scams on public --

they still do business with government.

[FBaggins]

103. Head in the sand always works, eh?

I've always found that nothing changes. But whatever floatrs your boat. :)

Was there a government investigation of this?

If so, what was the disposition?


Yes. The (democratic) AG of LA is investigating and subpoenas have been issued. He has already said that Lewis is lying when she claims that the amount of the theft is less than the originally reported $1mil (closer to five).

It's also worth noting that nobody outside the organization has verified that anything they have said is true.

Keep in mind that we've had GE defrauding the government on government contracts for

decades ... they've never been barred from further participation!

Which to any rational person would be a reason to go after GE... NOT give someone else a pass for corrupt behavior.

[defendandprotect]

105. No -- questioning Fox facts, however, is wise . ..

Was there a government investigation of this?

If so, what was the disposition?


Yes. The (democratic) AG of LA is investigating and subpoenas have been issued. He has already said that Lewis is lying when she claims that the amount of the theft is less than the originally reported $1mil (closer to five).

So Democrats are investigating this --
Subpoenas have been issued --
And a Democratic AG has announced that a defendant is a "liar" --
Let us know what the final disposition is when it arrives!


Further ...


Keep in mind that we've had GE defrauding the government on government contracts for

decades ... they've never been barred from further participation!

Which to any rational person would be a reason to go after GE... NOT give someone else a pass for corrupt behavior.

What I am pointing out to you has been the LONG DECADES of government inaction vs GE and

pharma -- and other large corporations ripping off government.

AND IN THIS CASE, AS YOU YOURSELF HAVE REPORTED, ACORN IS BEING INVESTIGAGED BY GOVERNMENT!!!

WHICH IS THE WAY IT SHOULD BE FOR ALL --

AND RESTRICTIONS HAVE BEEN PLACED UPON THEM COLLECTING GOVERNMENT FUNDS.

WHERE ARE THOSE SAME RESTRICTIONS ON GE OR PHARMA?

[FBaggins]

109. I'm missing where the response is.

Who is defending big pharma or GE?

I'm being consistent here. Corruption on the right or in a corporation (or?) doesn't mean that I give corruption on the left a pass.

And again... these aren't "fox facts"... it's Democrats investigating them (as they should when corruption is being paid for by those most in need) They're getting credit for registering thousands of democratic voters when they're taking the money and scamming US.

[defendandprotect]

110. Neither does anyone else give corruption a pass . . . you're having a debate with

yourself --

WHEN there is a decision by the Democrats on this case, let us know --

ACORN is getting credit for registering voters because they are effective community

organizers -- something that the Democratic Party dropped doing.

And something which the GOP/Fox hates --

[Name removed]

115. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Techn0Girl]

145. And YOU are simply being reactionary and arguing but not listening...

The poster presented facts backed up by New York Times Articles. At one point one of the family members of an ACORN founder EMBEZZLED one MILLION dollars from the organization. That appears to be a fact that the poster substantiated. ACORN covered it up to protect the embezzler. That appears to be an admitted fact as well.

The poster made his point - YOU are just yelling without substantiating anything at all.

[donquijoterocket]

171. ACORN's true crime

When you start to read through the list of spurious charges alleged by most wingnut commentators you soon see that ACORN's one true crime, in their eyes, is that they effectively advocate for the middle class, the poor, and people of color. Remember to the plutocrats it's not class warfare until the under classes starts firing back.

[kooljerk666]

140. ACORN has been vindicated.........

........and you're trying to compare one lone embezzler to what may hopefully blow up into something bigger than Watergate.

You know I see companies every week that have been looted by accountants, what are these companies guilty of?

The only wrongdoing ACORN employees have been caught in is "voter registration fraud", which was used to pad pockets of those being paid on commission.

Here are a dozen drug dealing GOP county bosses who rigged elections for decades http://www.bradblog.com/?p=7001


GOP voter fraud guy http://www.bradblog.com/?p=7237

[FBaggins]

154. Not even close.

Certainly not by the DEMOCRATS who were on their BOARD and were fired for exposing their corruption. Certainly not by the DEMOCRAT who is still investigating and pointing out their lies as supoenaed documents prove them wrong.

trying to compare one lone embezzler

Oh BS! The "lone embezzler" is the brother of the founder and the founder (and later the board) covered it up and let him get away with it! The entire BOARD (except those who lost their jobs when they reported the crime) is complicit.

Here are a dozen drug dealing GOP county bosses

That's nice. Throw them in jail too.

Why would you imagine that illegal activity by the opposition should give someone who SAYS he's on our side a pass?

[defendandprotect]

168. And, yes, the money was returned . . .. we should be so lucky

with corporate crime!

Meanwhile, I think it's best to let the record stand and eventually we'll see where

this goes -- if anywhere.

Meanwhile, wondering if "Dad" Flanagan was involved?

And another CIA criminal! Starting young!

:evilgrin:


Probably should go for "ignore" --

has a certainly familiarity to a "Merry-go-Round" or gum stuck on your shoe!

[FBaggins]

177. You have an odd notion of the meaning of the word "returned"

Doesn't that NORMALLY imply that the person who TOOK the money has given it back?

Let's try it this way. If someone steals your car and your insurance company cuts you a check for it... has your car been returned? How do you feel about the thief? If reporters were to ask you about it later, would you say that you had come to a "settlement" with the thief and the car had been returned?

[kooljerk666]

180. how can u compare 2 or 5 or even 100 crooks.........

in an organization with probably 10's of thousands of employees, with an entire political party of liars and psychos?

Remember Ohio, Florida, supreme court 2000, phone jam in NH, look buddy you are fighting the wrong people here.

I am a real lefty, and even if you are a Conservative, them we should agree that we must stop corporations & foreign nations from running our country.

Anything else we disagree on we can fight about later.

Most of this is a circus designed to fracture the people & enrich the elites. (if ya make less than $100,000k u ain't one).

[FBaggins]

181. How? I haven't even tried to.

I compare them to non-corrupt democrats... Not to republicans. And "we let corruption slide until we get everyone on the other side" is itself corrupt. No thanks.

And 2,5, or 100 is more that enough when they are the very top people at the organization

[kooljerk666]

183. u forget Rove, Cheney, Bush, Armitage..........

Wolfowitz, Feith, Woo.....

Dude I am trying to play nice, the corporat shills have to go. If u want to focus on ACORN , where no one went to jail or was indicted, hey how about Iran-Contra, or Reagans deals with Iran to keep the hostages.

Your are throwing shit & it ain't sticking.

Go hang with Micheal Steele.

[FBaggins]

184. I haven't forgotten anybody.

Can you point to one place where I've given them a pass? One?

Trying to play nice? Dude... You can't even hold an honest conversation. You have to falsify opposition because you know that the facts are inexcusable if you can't paint the source as biased. The problem with that lame strategy (which has been made perfectly clear to you) is that the ORIGINAL source is unquestionably Democratic... as is the AG who tells us that they CONTINUE to lie.

Must suck to be stuck with that position... go ahead... Call me names again, I'm sure that SOMEONE will
kiss the fact that you still can't respond to the facts.

And what makes you think that you can respond to the fact that you think that illegal actions by one person means that others should be able to get away with it... By continuing to make the claim?

On edit - My apologies... I didn't realize that you weren't the same posted I had been talking to earlier. My mistake.

[JoeyT]

142. Um. Kinda.

So if someone breaks into my house and steals stuff from me and I want my stuff back, clearly I have something to hide?
Virtually any organization that size is going to have problems. I don't doubt a bit that they have issues. I don't think I could name a major long running charity or large scale group that doesn't.

That doesn't mean pimp training is one of them.
It's far more likely that the employees figured it was a joke. These aren't A list actors here. It's a dumbass neocon and his dumbass friend that made the stupidest looking pimp and hooker ever. If that pair walked up to me, I'd automatically assume I was being fucked with. Of course, if I decided to joke around with them without knowing I was being recorded, and they doctored the hell out of the videos later, I'm sure it could be made to look absolutely terrible. The people probably thought it was Candid Camera and were waiting for Allen Funt to run in yelling.

[FBaggins]

149. Not the same thing.

If the "someone" who "breaks into your house" is your wife and the "stuff" she steals is NOT "your stuff" but is stuff that has been donated to aide the poor... then when you catch her you don't turn her in but cover it up instead... then when THAT becomes public you cover it up by agreeing to let her "repay" it (except that SHE never does - you just label the next stuff that someone ELSE donates as a "repayment" from HER)... and try to go on being trusted to handle more "stuff" that is donated for the poor"...

...then yeah... clearly you have something to hids.

[Enthusiast]

150. You are strongly focused on

the "wrong doings" of ACORN, for a Democrat, that is. Seems to me that Democrats don't need to aid in the efforts by the Right Wing smear machine. Apparently that never occurred to you. Hmmm.....

[FBaggins]

161. Nope. That's flat wrong.

Real Democrats oppose corruption wherever they find it. We don't give a pass to people who claim they're on our side. It's Republicans who only go after it when the other side is guilty.

As has been pointed out more than once... there are LOTS of Democrats who find ACORN's corruption to be unacceptable.

Being on the left politically should not give you a get-out-of-jail-free card when your corruption harms the poor you are supposed to be helping. Apparently that never occured to you. Hmmm.....??

[Enthusiast]

165. Nope. That's flat wrong.

In a country awash in the corruption you choose to aid the efforts of the right wing smear machine by fighting to validate their allegations against ACORN?

There are countless instances of GOP wrong doing, even REAL election fraud, election fraud that changed the results of at least one, and maybe two presidential elections.

In light of this, your jumping into the 'do anything to discredit ACORN' effort by GOP operatives seems suspicious to the readers of this thread. And rightly so.

ACORN wrong doing was limited to mostly some low level employees. It was certainly not institutionalized and it was no vast left wing conspiracy to change the results of an election.

[FBaggins]

166. Lol!

So now you say there's a whole bunch of corruption going on out there and we have to let SOME of it slide... so why not for people who root for out team?

Thanks for your honesty there... but you should reconsider your position.

you choose to aid the efforts of the right wing

I do nothing of the sort. The reason they have any "efforts" at ALL is because too many on our side were willing to sweep it under the rug. Corruption doesn't do lasting damage to the party when the party deals with it quickly.

There are countless instances of GOP wrong doing, even REAL election fraud

And I'd just LOVE for someone to man up and show me where I've ever defended that?


ACORN wrong doing was limited to mostly some low level employees

Nope. The wrongdoing that I've been posting about here (over and over and over) was committed by the very TOP of the organization. It was as "institutionalized" as you can get.

[Enthusiast]

178. Laugh if you want but

you did not pull the wool over my/our eyes. We recognize you as the right wing advocate you are. Head on back to freeperville you ass.

[FBaggins]

182. I guess those ACORN board members are freepers too, right?

You're like one of those fans who can't see where the ball actually SHOULD be spotted because he's so busy rooting for his team that he's blind to reality.

Better put, it's like we both root for the same basketball team and watch our point guard kicks the ref in the groin. When I say that the guy should be suspended, you say that until every foul the other team commited is properly punished, our guy should get a pass. In fact, for me to even HINT otherwise is proof that I'm a lifelong fan of the other team.

In short. You can shove it.

[lib_wit_it]

189. The analogy doesn't hold. In the b-ball game, the case "our" team's groin-kicking guy is the only .

one on the table. The other cases are closed. The resources needed to "prosecute" our guy can not be used to prosecute the other, past groin kickers, even if any of those cases resulted in more serious damage to ref groin, or were, for some other reason, more damaging to the game itself.

I don't believe I need to explain how the circumstances in the issue at hand differ from the b-ball example.

[FBaggins]

75. "ACORN fires 2 who were probing embezzlement allegations"

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/11/13/acorn.investigation/

[alstephenson]

79. No, the links with the indictments and convictions...

[FBaggins]

85. That isn't enough?

You have a very high threshold for corruption don't you?

Their own board members blowing the whistle (and getting fired for it)... their founder's brother stealing millions and he doesn't report it... the board covers it up when they find out... and then fires the board members who are unwilling to cover it up. The board then "fires" the founder (except that he keeps a different job and continues to make money).

None of this invented or doctored... and the whistle blowers are all senior ACORN members who are FAR from the right.

http://www.dailyherald.com/story/?id=287799&src=3

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124182750646102435.html

On Monday, Nevada officials charged Acorn, its regional director and its Las Vegas field director with submitting thousands of fraudulent voter registration forms last year. Larry Lomax, the registrar of voters in Las Vegas, says he believes 48% of Acorn's forms "are clearly fraudulent." On Thursday, prosecutors in Pittsburgh, Pa., also charged seven Acorn employees with filing hundreds of fraudulent voter registrations before last year's general election.

Yes... the article in from the WSJ... but NV's AG is a Democrat.

The stink is bad enough that some congressional Democrats have taken notice. At a March 19 hearing on election problems, Michigan Rep. John Conyers, chairman of the House Judiciary Committee, pressed New York Rep. Gerald Nadler, chairman of the Subcommittee on the Constitution, Civil Rights and Civil Liberties, to hold a hearing on Acorn. He called the charges against it "serious." Mr. Nadler agreed to consider the request.

Note that the date on the article is May 9th. Months before O'Keefe released any videos

[Selena Harris]

134. Setting the record straight on ACORN-----MUSTREAD

Times Online ACORN Is Back in the News, but News Still Gets It Wrong‎ - 13 hours ago

The conservatives sought to discredit ACORN and, by linking the group to President Obama, undermine Obama and his liberal agenda. Now ACORN is back in the ...
Huffington Post (blog) - 1679 related articles »


A first rate piece that everyone shouldread.

[Kalun D]

188. How Big?

How big is Acorn? Are these problems you mention individuals? Or is it widespread due to a culture of corruption? I think if you look closely it's isolated incidents.

[sabrina 1]

90. It doesn't matter whether you buy it or not, the fact is that they most definitetly

have been vindicated. Of course that wasn't all over the media and if you weren't looking for it, you could have missed it since it was buried in the NYT ~

John Conyers requested the Judiciary Committee to investigate any wrongdoing on the part of ACORN. And that committee found none ~

Additionally as I said, after ACORN sued Congress for their unconstitutional bill defunding BECAUSE of O'Keefe's little stunt, the judge ruled that Congress must re-instate ACORN's funding as there was no evidence of wrong-doing, and what they did was to try to punish ACORN without an investigation. Clearly the judge was not as impressed as you were, with O'Keefe's bungled efforts to find something to slam ACORN with.

ACORN's Vindication: Too Little Too Late

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=122275494

On Christmas Eve, buried on page A24 of my edition of the New York Times, was this story: "The controversial community organizing group Acorn has not broken any laws in the last five years, according to a Congressional Research Service report released Tuesday evening."

Indeed, the CRS report—requested in September by House Judiciary Committee Chairman John Conyers and House Financial Services Committee Chairman Barney Frank—finds no instances in which ACORN "violated the terms of federal funding in the last five years," and no instances of individuals allegedly registered to vote improperly by ACORN "attempting to vote at the polls."

No election fraud as touted even still, by Fox et al. And further down in the article you will references to the O'Keefe scam where it was found that ACORN had done nothing illegal.

This report went back five years which certainly included O'Keefe's illegal and heavily doctored taping.

As I said he is being sued by ACORN for that and sued again by the Philadelphia office for lying.

In the San Diego tape, it was clear that Juan Carlos Vera never went along with their scam and we now know they were most likely dressed as ordinary people when they spoke to him. Contrary to the lies they told about him, he DID contact the police and in the video itself, told them 'I work with law enforcement'. It was THEY who said 'that's not good'.

I won't waste any more time debunking the other two tapes, the Philly tape and the one where they ACORN worker just played with them as she thought they were just 'crazy'.


O'Keefe destroyed the life of a very decent man by lying about him, even after Juan Carlos produced evidence that he had called the police on them. Juan Carlos Vera didn't really believe them, but wasn't sure if there really were young girls in trouble. When they refused to recontact him, HE called the police.

Stop buying these anti-democratic smear campaigns unless of course, you WANT to, which won't change the facts, ACORN called the police on them, they doctored tapes, lied, used voice-overs and have refused to produce the un-edited tapes.

I expect the media to thoroughly expose that stunt now that it is clear we were dealing with law-breakers from the beginning. And I expect more lawsuits and at least three criminal charges for violating the laws in CA, MD and PA. The media in this country is a disgrace, and so is Congress and your continued believe in the scame is proof of that.

[Name removed]

98. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Enthusiast]

148. Why would a "Democrat" take

your position? Especially when your position has Reich Wing spin written all over it.

[FBaggins]

153. Do you find that that kind of attack EVER makes corruption go away?

How does it help "democrats" when they cover up corruption in their supposed "friends" and how effective is that cover up their best defense is to accuse anyone who looks into it of being a political opponent?

I get why you fall for it... but that spin simply won't work.

Let's make this clear. The people who are making the accusations that are the most serious (and have nothing to do with the "pimp") are NOT republicans... they are several senior ACORN executives, including people who were on the board. You can't (honestly) spin that as a republican smear.

They're all Democrats.... why not ask THEM why they take their position? Why not as the investigating AG (also a Democrat) why HE takes that position?

[Scruffy1]

158. My BS meter just pegged out

Sixty seven investigations finding no wrongdoing. There was no illegal act committed on these spurious videos. They never even finished step one of a ten step process. O'Keefe's act was a felony in Maryland, but either his political connections came into play or the whole thing was turned over to the Feds to investigate deeper. We know they were on the right wing payroll' so they are not independent.

[arcadian]

52. Here is his last post on his Facebook page

James O'Keefe Lawsuit filed Thusday in Federal Court against O'Keefe and Giles

[crazyjoe]

162. how do you like living in "fantasy land" ? just because you

say it don't make it true.

[me b zola]

81. This is where you are making your mistake

Pimpy McPlummer did not catch ACORN "with their pants down". Those videos were manipulated to make it seem like it was not, and that is exactly what he would do with any recordings from the Senator's office.

[Name removed]

97. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[FBaggins]

100. Lol! Where did I defend anything?

Not that facts would stop you...

For the record... it's possible for both to be complete slime. I have no desire to "defend" the pimp and I'm exstatic to be able to watch his comupance...

...that doesn't make ACORN fine, upstanding OR innocent. As they are none of the above.

They're an organization with a wonderful mission filled with LOTS of good people who are getting smeared by association... but the organization is rotten from the top and has no sense of quality control, no intent/ability to catch corruption... and no skills re: training people to do the job they're hired for.

[Techn0Girl]

114. Maybe you should calm down and listen to the poster....

Because the poster is making sense and YOU are just being reactionary.

If indeed ACORN has had embezzlement issues at the very top only an idiot would ignore that fact just to cheerlead for his own side. Me, I'm going to read the NYT articles the poster linked to .

I suggest that you open your mind and stop being reactionary. If the poster has made an error in his links or the facts are in error YOU need to debate him with facts - not silly yelling and pompom waving.

[Bluenorthwest]

156. He did not catch ACORN

those tapes were heavily edited, and I doubt you have any concept of what that means. What they did to ACORN was criminal, just as what they did to the Senator is criminal.
The only one caught with pants down is you, buying into the lies of these people, even as they are indicted for federal crimes. That is really pretty daft.

[Ian David]

4. CBS has a source that says they were just looking for juicy gossip.

CBS News: source says O'Keefe was trying to catch Landrieu talking negatively about her constituents
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7581805

[CJCRANE]

6. Could be an attempt at damage limitation. nt

[katandmoon]

12. I totally don't believe that.

[proud2BlibKansan]

19. Because she has nothing better to do than gossip about her constituents?

Wow. O'Keefe is even dumber than I thought he was.

[lame54]

28. complete horseshit...

he doesn't work for the enquirer

[Ian David]

70. No, he works for Fox "News" which is worse. n/t

[lame54]

78. actually - he works for this guy...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7582480

[gkhouston]

33. Dick Cheney can say that, but I still don't believe him. n/t

[defendandprotect]

39. Ah .... just "boys being boys" . . . . what are we all worried about, then???

[alstephenson]

51. That fits in with the "just a harmless prank" meme.

[Ian David]

69. No, it doesn't.

A "harmless prank" would be putting a whoopie cushion on her chair.

Wiretapping her phone for ANY purpose-- in this case, political sabotage or blackmail-- is not a "harmless prank."

It just means they didn't have any reason to believe they were being vigilantes in pursuit of Justice against some kind of crime.

[alstephenson]

76. Um, I guess I forgot my "sarcasm" thingie.

[Ian David]

84. Okay, thanks. You had me worried. n/t

[spanone]

57. or highly sensitive homeland security terrorism information...depends on how you frame it

[Enthusiast]

152. I believe everything CBS reports. nt

[The_Casual_Observer]

5. My guess is that they are going to claim they were only trying to

show how lax the security is at her office. I know it's lame, but none of those idiots had the expertise or background to place wiretaps, so what were they really going to do?

[DL in SoCal]

20. The state of the wiretapping art

You might find a trip to a "spy shop" surprising. The technology is stunning and easy to use. It truly doesn't require a lot of tech savvy to use electronic eavesdropping tools these days.

But the good stuff is pricey. Which makes me wonder how these fools bankrolled their "prank."

There are still a LOT of unanswered questions here.

[lame54]

29. I guess they were wrong

[defendandprotect]

40. Good point . . . filming was O'Keefe's centerpiece ... and distortion . . .

previous to this --

[Last Stand]

80. They were set up by the people who had a more sinister agenda perhaps.

Reminds me of The Bank Job where blackmailed pols hoodwinked petty crooks by giving them a means to rob a bank to steal things out of safety deposit boxes. The pols kept just wanted incriminating notebooks and the thieves never knew what was going on. They thought they pulled off a brilliant heist but didn't know the real purpose of the job.

[MineralMan]

7. And I was thinking it could be more comical than we imagined.

But...what do I know?

[dmr]

25. CNN last night explained it was more like a SNL sketch

like it was no big deal except the charges are serious.

:crazy:

it was a yell at the TV moment
:grr:

[Blackhatjack]

32. They would have characterized the Watergate Breakin the same way I am sure. n/t

[defendandprotect]

41. That's fairly active cover-up by CNN by the way!!

[librechik]

8. Since the CIA was involved (at least, arrested) Obama must be the boss, right?

I'm just sayin--the real danger here is that the President is NOT in control of the CIA. Some anti-Obama element was obviously behind it, maybe even someone or friends of someone who wants various things to be "his Waterloo--we will break him") Can we use this to put a leash on those ratfuckers? If only...

As I was writing this I realized that someone in the White House might be very interested in who Landrieu was talking to and what she was saying. (I'm talking to you, Rahm--not that I believe that's what was happening for a second) Our politics today are very dark and troubling indeed...

[defendandprotect]

42. "Today" . . . ???

That's been the case since '63 -- at least it's been fairly in the open

since then.

[librechik]

63. yes, I know--

http://www.amazon.com/Farewell-America-Plot-Kill-JFK/dp/1883955327/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1264626632&sr=8-1#reader_1883955327

I was just being current for the whippersnappers who weren't there...

[MattBaggins]

9. Not about health care. She sits on the homeland security commitee

As far as I know he was after information to give to for'un terr'ists. He must be declared an unlawful enemy combatant and treated as such. We risk way too many American lives if we give him silly constitutional rights. We must waterboard him asap and find out who he was working for.

[defendandprotect]

43. Is that Lieberman's committee?

[TlalocW]

10. This is what needs to be done

Since Landrieu is part of various committees related to Homeland Security, this is essentially a foiled terrorist plot, and these guys need to be dealt with under the provisions of the Patriot Act that conservatives love so much - put them in Gitmo for a few years with no trial. If other Americans having their constitutional rights taken away was good enough for them under Bush, it's good enough for them under Obama.

TlalocW

[DL in SoCal]

11. Fox News is full of ideologically-fueled and unethical producers

Perhaps one of them commissioned this "prank" thinking it would result in a scoop. If this proves to be the case, just watch how fast Murdoch and Ailes throw them to the wolves (while finding someone to secretly pay O'Keefe's legal expenses.)

This reminds me. I live near Yorba Linda. And I'm way overdue for my visit to piss on Nixon's grave.

[zappaman]

34. Not easy to do

I had the same thought years ago and checked it out. The grave is not exactly close and would require a super-powerful, long stream. Bummer.

[ThomWV]

13. Technology? My god, a 10-year-old could tap an office these days

Look, if I can get into your office all I have to do is drop a cell phone turned to speakerphone and already dialed and connected to any number on earth I want in between the cushions on the couch. Presto, instant wiretap that will last as long as the batteries. Oh, and I can dial a number in China if I want to, just before I set it down.

[Blackhatjack]

22. The telephone system installed in a US Senate Office is more secure ...

... than the telephone system installed in the offices of most businesses.

They are always a target for espionage, and surveillance systems are likely integrated for the Senator's protection.

Analyze the type of wiretapping devices and surveillance devices they tried to use and you will have a clue as to the sophistication of the attempted wiretapping.

[northzax]

35. You'd hope, right?

But you'd probably be wrong. The phone systems at your average federal building were installed by the lowest bidder. Probably not that complicated.

And if you want to find out who's behind it all, assuming anyone is, throw the book at O'Keefe and co. Offering a fully paid thirty, forty year vacation in Florence has a way of loosening people's tongues.

[Blackhatjack]

36. IF none of these guys agree to cooperate, you KNOW there are higher ups being protected

Arrest 4 young guys presumably with no prior criminal record, and NONE of them agrees to cop to a plea bargain and cooperate against the others? It literally screams that there are others out there being protected.

I agree that the punishments hanging over them need to be substantial to get to the bottom of this operation. However, as first offenders, they likely won't do much time. So it may be hard to get to the planners and backers.

[defendandprotect]

44. I agree that there will be a blocking of info rather than opening the floodgates!

[Bragi]

14. If Watergate happened now, would anyone care?

If it happened today, the Nixon White House would call the burglars "confused office cleaners", Fox news would find that to indeed be the case, Keith and Rachel would be all over it, polls would later show that democratic voters thought a crime had been committed, while republican voters believed the original event was a hoax and never happened.

I wonder if that's what will happen with this O'Keefe matter. It will divide the nation, everyone will believe their own set of "facts", no-one will be shocked by idea of such an act occurring, and the media will move on when balloon boy's dad gets released from jail.

[troubledamerican]

141. No -- and this story will vanish, forgotten, because

Obama & Congressional Democrats have shown an aversion to confrontation of criminals.

[Blackhatjack]

17. It is a fact that they KNEW what they were doing was a CRIME ...

So the characterization that it was a prank is ridiculous.

Now weigh the consequences against what they were looking for. Do think they would risk criminal prosecution for just some 'juicy gossip'?????

I don't think so.

[katandmoon]

18. I think you're on to something. These guys considered themselves serious operatives. They were full

of themselves after the ACORN incident, and they were out to land a BIG fish this time.

[Kingofalldems]

23. How many other phones have they tapped?

I suspect this is not the only one.

[OnyxCollie]

24. K&R

Bookmarking for later.

[Ganja Ninja]

26. Yup. Just because the criminals are ass clowns doesn't mean it's less

of a crime. Who furnished the equipment is going to be the burning question.

[MineralMan]

27. Most criminals who get caught are ass clowns.

It's a job requirement, I think.

[Blackhatjack]

30. Another point... A lawyer shows up to defend them and says he doesn't know who is paying him

Now that does not happen.

You have to know who is paying the tab in order to establish there is not potential or actual conflict of interest. To go forward with representation(unless you are doing it pro bono --for free) without knowing who is paying you could subject you as an attorney to sanctions.

And he shows up and appears on their behalf. Who called him and asked him to appear on their behalf?

There is more to be mined here.

[defendandprotect]

45. Did that actually happen????

There's no article with this OP -- so I don't know???

[Ellipsis]

48. Can't give you the link but I saw the defense attorney in a youtube video say just that.

Maybe Gawker had it.

[defendandprotect]

58. I don't need a link . . . thank you -- I missed that . . . amazing!!

yes -- we need to know who's paying these guys --

O'Keefe hasn't been self-financed -- turns out that in the original ACORN

film he was wearing a regular shirt -- he spliced in/"edited" himself wearing

the pimp outfit!!

We need to see those original videos!!

But -- getting back to this one . . . I'm wondering that Flanagan, the Dad, might

have been involved? How do 25 year olds decide to do this without his knowning?

Not likely?

[Scruffy1]

159. I don't think its likely that daddy had anything t do with it.

No lawyer going to tell his son to commit a felony. But we know he waw on the payroll of Breitbart
whose defense is that he didin't know about and wasn't responsible for things his employees do. Kind of blows the shit out of the way he attacked ACORN. What goes around comes around.

[Enthusiast]

179. This might not be true.

You had better consult FBaggins. See, he is the only one on DU that has the TRUE dope on ACORN. He only wants to be fair.

[Ellipsis]

56. Link

...about a minute in.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-li_6Z_vRjI&feature=player_embedded

[defendandprotect]

59. Thank you!!

[defendandprotect]

60. Fantastic!! Just a lawyer working for nothing . . !!! How about that!!

:evilgrin:


Thanks to you both for tracking this down --

Eddie Castaing??? hmmm....

[Ellipsis]

62. I'd guess the gossip from the courthouse produced a "family friend" of the US attorney.

I wouldn't read too much into it.

[defendandprotect]

65. Nice spin . ..

I'd believe that when pigs fly!

[Ellipsis]

68. A courthouse, has it's own community... like any other. No spin, just an opinion.

I hope they throw the book at um
take care.

[defendandprotect]

88. Was the comment I replied to ...

sarcasm?

Did I misunderstand?

I hope they throw the book at um
take care

Me, too --

[alstephenson]

53. You're right!

The attorney definitely knows who's paying him. What a crock.

[robertpaulsen]

83. WOW! This really is a Watergate sequel!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BycKBJiAVjQ

[Wizard777]

106. Wait a minute! I have an idea.

:think: Maybe Mr. O'Keefe can use his Investigative Journalism skills to help him solve the mystery of who's paying his legal bills? Now there's an expose' people would like to see. :popcorn:

[Vinnie From Indy]

37. As any committed right-winger knows

you simply cannot take the chance that these young men are not part of a bigger plan to attack the USA. The ONLY safe course of action is to give these guys a few rides on "Ol' Dunky" the waterboard at GITMO as well as subjecting them to prolonged periods of intense discomfort including forced "stress positions", extremes of heat and cold and a constant barrage of loud music. That is the way you deal terrorist scum. For all we know these guys are in league with Jose Padilla and the shoe bomber. I suspect Rush Limbaugh is reminding his listeners that these AMERICANS committed an act of terrorism and must be locked up indefinitely and subjected to torture to secure Der Fatherland. Maybe Rush can sell a few more "Club Gitmo" shirts to his conservative listeners now that some may actually visit as inmates.

[Blackhatjack]

46. The Senator Vitter Angle NEEDS to be Fully Investigated....

.... and he was awful quick on the draw here. Who called him and suggested that he put and keep that hold in place on Obama's nomination for the new US Attorney to take present US Attorney Flanagan's place?

[Emit]

91. Vitter has been holding up Obama's nominations since mid-January or before

Here's a related story dated 1/12/10:

Sen. David Vitter is speaking out about why he's holding up two of President Barack Obama's nominations for the state.

Vitter has refused to sign off on the nominations for a judgeship in Baton Rouge and U.S. Marshal in New Orleans. Vitter said he's holding up the nominations for assurances that U.S. Attorney Jim Letten won't be removed from his position.

~snip~

http://www.wwltv.com/news/Vitter-holding-up-Obama-nomination-to-make-sure-Letten-is-retained-81292002.html

And here's a press release from Landrieu dated 1/20/2010

...
Finley is now the third of Senator Landrieu's recommendations to be nominated by President Obama. Lt. Col. Genny May has been nominated as U.S. Marshal in the Eastern District and Brian Jackson has been nominated as federal judge in the Middle District. However, Louisiana Senator David Vitter continues to hold up each of these nominations citing concerns over the re-nomination of U.S. Attorney Jim Letten of the Eastern District. On numerous occasions Sen. Landrieu has noted that U.S. Attorneys do not need to be re-nominated by the President or re-confirmed by the Senate to continue serving in their current capacity.

"All U.S. Attorneys serve at the pleasure of the President and do not need to be re-nominated by the President or re-confirmed by the Senate to continue their service. This includes Jim Letten, who continues to serve with my strong support," Sen. Landrieu said. "Eight other well-qualified individuals are pending for important available federal posts. Senator Vitter's partisan antics will do nothing but hurt the people of Louisiana who need these positions filled."

http://landrieu.senate.gov/releases/09/2010121503.html

[Selena Harris]

125. Tony Perkins and David Vitter

Check out the ties between Vitter and Perkins. Perkins has the Focus on the Family and is organizing health reform workshops at churches . Vitter has attended these religious oriented gatherings that are creationist,prolife and antigay.

Perkins is a pal of Ralph Reed and the usual Evangelical suspects.

[WillyT]

47. Now Where Have I Heard This Before ???

<snip>

On June 17, 1972, Frank Wills, a security guard at the Watergate Complex, noticed tape covering the latch on locks on several doors in the complex (leaving the doors unlocked). He took the tape off, and thought nothing of it. An hour later, he discovered that someone had retaped the locks. Willis called the police and five men were arrested inside the Democratic National Committee's (DNC) office.<8> The five men were Virgilio González, Bernard Barker, James W. McCord, Jr., Eugenio Martínez, and Frank Sturgis. The five were charged with attempted burglary and attempted interception of telephone and other communications. On September 15, a grand jury indicted them and two other men (E. Howard Hunt, Jr. and G. Gordon Liddy<1>) for conspiracy, burglary, and violation of federal wiretapping laws.

The men who broke into the office were tried and convicted on January 30, 1973. After much investigation, all five men were directly or indirectly tied to the 1972 Committee to Re-elect the President (CRP, or sometimes pejoratively referred to as CREEP) and the trial judge, John J. Sirica, suspected a conspiracy involving higher-echelon government officials.<9> In March 1973, James McCord wrote a letter to Sirica, claiming that he was under political pressure to plead guilty and he implicated high-ranking government officials, including former Attorney General John Mitchell.<10> His letter helped to elevate the affair into a more prominent political scandal.<11>

<snip>

Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watergate_scandal

Hmmm...

:shrug:

[defendandprotect]

64. Right ... overlapping GOP "dirty tricks" . . . crimes . . on and on . . . on and on .. . .

[Gruenemann]

67. Of course it's serious.

See who he's the spitting image of: http://www.flickr.com/photos/gruenemann/4309356883/

[Scurrilous]

94. K & R

:thumbsup:

[Caretha]

95. Basically

they sent "boys" to do a "man's job".

Think about this. These lowlifes who don't even qualify to bag groceries, and don't even have the first clue about subverting a telephone system in a federal building, are trying such a dumb trick that even the janitor of the building would be suspicious. Something strange is definitely going on. Either our enemies are really that fucking stupid or this was meant to out these 20 year old something thugs.

I personally think that all republican thugs are stupid, hence Watergate, but on the other hand, who is recruiting these dweebs who couldn't bag groceries competently, or for god's sake even get laid.

My personal opinion ....our enemies are that stupid and lazy, just like the Nixon admin proved to be.

[Downwinder]

99. How did they get by security downstairs at the front desk carrying tools

without proper credentials?

[RayStar]

102. Hang them high

It really seems unreal that these four idiots did not know nor care that they were committing a federal offense. Lock them up and charge them as terrorists.

[Wizard777]

104. maybe Obama should retain him as a US Attorney.......for Guam.

[DallasNE]

107. O'Keefe's Full Time Job

Appears to be black bag jobs. One assumes he is being paid handsomely for these high risk black bag jobs, just as G. Gordon Liddy was being paid handsomely. So, not only follow the contacts and black bag equipment but also the money and who will pay the 6-figure defense bill that will follow. There are some fairly deep pockets involved with this whole operation.

[Selena Harris]

129. He's on Breitbart's payroll

[zeemike]

108. I would rather have a tap on ANY senator phone

Than own a gold mine with a rich vein of gold.
Every day there would be nuggets as big as your fist that could be sold for as much.
And then there is the informaton....you would know every time she took a leak and where she would be tomorrow and who she was going to be with....all of that valuable information to someone.
O'Keeffe could have made the big bucks.

It is about power and how you keep it.

[greatscott15]

113. Move on folks - more important issues to be worried about

Lets not lower ourselves to the level of our opponents.

[Quantess]

118. Nice try.

:party:

[Marr]

117. Hmm. It certainly fits together nicely.

I've been skeptical that this was anything larger than a group of young morons seeking another few minutes in the limelight, but if there's more to it, it'll be interesting.

[Selena Harris]

119. Louisiana misspent millions in Medicare-made deal with Feds

This week, Louisiana reached a tentative settlement to repay hundreds of millions of dollars in Medicaid money that the Feds say the state improperly used to pay for hazardous road claims and for Medicaid payments to certain government run nursing homes.

These claims have lingered for years,posing a threat to OTHER federal Medicaid dollars to the state.

The amount owed is $266 million plus interest.

CENTRAL La. POLITICS: LOUISIANA SETTLES MILLIONS OF DOLLARS ...Jan 26, 2010 ... LOUISIANA SETTLES MILLIONS OF DOLLARS MISSPENT IN MEDICAID CLAIMS ... dollars in Medicaid money the federal government says was misspent years ago, Gov. ... "The U.S. Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services, or CMS, ...
centrallapolitics.blogspot.com/.../louisiana-settles-millions-of-dollars.html - Cached


» Louisiana reaches agreement to repay Medicaid moneyJan 26, 2010 ... dollars in Medicaid money the federal government says was misspent years ago, Gov. ... The U.S. Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services, or CMS, ... money to pay for hazardous road claims against Louisiana in the ...
neworleanscitybusiness.com/.../louisiana-reaches-agreement-to-repay-medicaid-money/ - Cached

La. reaches agreement to repay Medicaid money - AP - NOLA.comJan 25, 2010 ... The U.S. Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services, or CMS, ... Medicaid money to pay for hazardous road claims against Louisiana in the ...
www.nola.com/newsflash/index.ssf?/base/national...louisiana - Cached

[Blackhatjack]

120. And now with press releases tonight from O'Keefe's Atty 'Watch The Magic Begin'....

KO just reported, He says that there was no attempt to wiretap or interfere with the phone system in Landrieu's office. Hmmmm... how about those electronic devices?

And he clarified that NONE of the 4 has entered a plea in their cases.

Sounds like they appear just for the purpose of having bond and conditions of release set.

Arraignment would be where a formal plea to the charges is entered.

The way the statements are being crafted and released to the media, it sounds like there may be forces at work behind the scenes to turn this into a 'non-event' and possibly a dismissal of all charges.

Taking into account that one has direct ties with the CIA, it would not surprise me if that is where we are headed.

[Selena Harris]

122. Maybe they will say

that they are Blackwater contractors working for CIA,like Erik Prince said-and are impervious to prosecution? /s

[Jefferson23]

121. Media Matters reports that Rush Limpbaugh did not mention this

story at all on his show today. I guess it was not news worthy for him, lol.

[Selena Harris]

123. Well, maybe Rush is

CIA,himself. Who knows?

NBC News with Brian Williams did not say one word on the evening news tonight.

Not one word!

[Jefferson23]

132. Brian Williams is too busy being outraged about sports figures

ruining the world via steroid use.

"Because this is a family broadcast, we probably can't saw what we'd like to about the news today that Mark McGwire ... stopped lying," Brian Williams began. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/01/12/brian-williams-mark-mcgwire_n_419687.html


Bush/Cheney years...no problem. Steroids....BIG Problem.

[Canuckistanian]

127. He'll be FORCED to comment on THIS

This is HUGE. CNN in particular ain't letting this one go.

And the trial WILL be big. Maybe as big as O.J. Simpson. It'll be EVERYWHERE.

[Canuckistanian]

124. What were they hoping to DO with any information?

Unless it was some kind of blackmail, Landrieu wouldn't have to admit to ANYTHING, because it was illegally obtained.

If a congressional inquiry was the goal, then the "evidence" would have to be disclosed.

And no matter HOW that evidence was obtained, it would tip off Landrieu's security that they had been compromised.

So, there are two choices as I see it. Either they had a very dark purpose - or.... they were absolute dumbasses.

I tend to believe the latter.

[Selena Harris]

128. Landrieu's brother Mitch is Lt. Governor and is

running for Mayor of New Orleans. The election is about a week away.

If he wins, Jindal can appoint a replacement.

[Canuckistanian]

133. I can't believe this is about LA state politics

O'Keefe is now a big player in NATIONAL politics. Why would he stick his neck out to defeat Landrieu's brother for a Lt. Gov. gig?

[Blackhatjack]

135. I agree... I believe the O'Keefe Gang had bigger targets in their sights.

IF the truth be known, O'Keefe and friends likely could care less about what happens to Louisiana.

[dmr]

146. Unless it's a tit for tat. O'Keefe does something for them, & they promise him something.

just speculating ...

[jmowreader]

126. "Inside knowledge" of how the phone system is configured? ROFLMAO

Never seen a frame, I take it.

When they install telephone switchgear, they label each wire pair going into the frame with its phone number, and sometimes with the name of the desk the phone's sitting on. (That's how they'd label this one--"Landrieu's office" for instance.) It's done to make troubleshooting easier. All they'd have to do is call Cheney or whoever, get the names of the lines they wanted tapped, and plug in.

As to where they'd get the technology to make the bug...just go to the music store and buy a wireless-mic transmitter.

[Blackhatjack]

130. You would do well to read up on technology necessary to create secure telephone systems...

While I have no specific knowledge of how the technology is implemented, I know that we learned a lot from constructing new US Embassies in countries like Russia and China, where the US based telephone systems were easily compromised during the constructions process, and in fact many had to be completely dismantled and reinstalled in order to avoid the surveillance system 'holes' that were being exploited by the host countries.

Members of Congress are always targets of espionage, and it stands to reason that their communication systems would include secure technology that goes far beyond the telephone systems install in the small businesses around the corner.

And if you believe the wireless-mic transmitter sold by a music store would survive a 'sweep' for electronic eavesdropping technology, you are mistaken.

[jmowreader]

160. I know it wouldn't survive it, and that's part of the side benefit of using it

The technology needed to create a secure telephone system is an STE--Secure Terminal Equipment--phone. This is what one looks like:



It's a phone with a scrambler in it. They cost a iittle over $3000, and you can use one on either an ISDN line (preferred) or just a regular phone line. If you're a government worker who travels a lot and needs a secure phone anywhere you go, you can take one of these and plug it into the hotel's phone system. People have these in their homes. This is very slick technology. It has basically eliminated the need for a "secure phone system."

In the bad old days, the "secure phone system" was a device called the KY-3. It looks like this (actually, this is a picture of two of them...):



Notice how big it is--and how ugly. (This is one of the few pieces of equipment you were allowed to modify the appearance of; you could paint it a different color, wallpaper it, glue paneling to the outside or whatever else you want to do. Fort Meade knew a lot of the people who had these wouldn't want to look at them, and they understood--if you were the Secretary of the Treasury, which means you'd have one in your house, would you want a gray safe in the living room?) They were also expensive enough you'd only have a handful in an embassy...and you wouldn't dedicate one to any one user. (Also figure: the guy who paid half a million in soft-money campaign contributions to President Whoever's campaign does NOT want to walk from his desk to the comm center to make a quick call.) So...you put phones on the desks of people who would need to make phone calls, and the KY-3 boxes in the phone closet handle the encryption. Now here's the thing: all the wiring between the user's phone and this massive piece of equipment is considered "red"--unsecure--wiring. Stick a tap on the red side of the box, and it's just like tapping an unsecure line. This box is the reason we've had to reinstall so many embassy phone systems.

The STU series (especially the STU-III) and the new STE change all that. In the modern era, your voice leaves your desk scrambled, so they can just buy an off-the-shelf PBX from Avaya or someone and use that.

Now as to the (correct) allegation that a wireless microphone transmitter would be picked up in a sweep: well, you're right about that--and that's one of the side benefits, from O'Keefe's perspective, of using it. I know about guys like this. He's not a spy, he's a shit stirrer. Think back to the ACORN "investigation" he did. I wouldn't have done it that way. I would have found the most anti-ACORN Republican Member of Congress (either representative or senator) in Washington and worked with him. O'Keefe dumped his heavily edited product onto YouTube. O'Keefe WANTED this to be found--and so did his handlers. He wanted every Democratic MOC to think "OMG am I next?" The correct technical term for what O'Keefe did is terrorism, but since he's a Repuke Hero you'll never hear that word and James O'Keefe's name mentioned in the same sentence. The most important tipoff to me that they wanted this to be found, is the number of people they sent in. I've had office phone systems repaired before. They sent one guy, not three. If they wanted actual information from the intrusion, do you really think they would have sent the plumbers to Landrieu's office during the work day? And do you think they would have used plumbers (plumbers in the Watergate sense, not the Roto Rooter sense) at all? There are ways to bug an office that don't even require going there. They would have gotten some of their Blackwater buddies to deal with the problem.

[Blackhatjack]

167. Thanks for taking the time to post this... very thorough explanation of the technology

I have to agree that whoever sent in these guys obviously wanted them caught or was dumb as a tree stump. However, that does not mean O'Keefe and friends were not intentionally trying to interfere with and obtain information from the telephone system in Sen Landrieu's Office.

There are lots of sources online that supposedly will sell the public all the technology they need to eavesdrop on telephone systems, but I agree with your assessment that the sophisticated equipment needed would be prohibitive costwise.

Of course, never underestimate the lack of intelligence of the Republican Party that brought us the Watergate Plumbers.

[Blackhatjack]

136. NOW Shuster on MSNBC's Rachel Maddow Show is about to give the latest report after the commercial...

... should be interesting to see how this story has morphed.

[Blackhatjack]

138. If Shuster is correct, it sounds like the equipment was hidden cameras and cellphones...

... and the story being floated was to try and film Landrieu's Office Staff responding to the telephones not working, to try and demonstrate the Staff was not concerned about missing the calls of the Senator's constituents calling in.

Even so, the entry on government property and interference with the phone system is sufficient to support the charges already brought against them.

[gkhouston]

157. That makes no sense. How long were the "repairmen" supposed to hang

around, filming without fixing things? If you were a staffer, how concerned would you be if the phones were out but you had someone already in the office working the problem? Yes, you wouldn't be happy you had no phones, but if someone's already there and working the problem, is freaking out and riding their ass going to help their diagnostic skills? How's the guy with the camera in his helmet supposed to film if his role is to fix things? How is O'Keefe supposed to surreptitiously film with his cell phone camera for any period of time? How long did O'Keefe, in the role of visitor, think he was going to be able to hang around the office?

We're supposed to believe these guys did something that could net them 10 years in prison and a hefty fine for the possibility of a quick video of a staffer saying, "Take your time fixing it, I could use a break from the whining"? :shrug: I don't think so.

At the very least, I think they wanted some raw footage they could doctor into something more damaging, a la ACORN. I'm wondering, though, whether it was some sort of recon mission to get footage to help them plant a wiretap on a subsequent visit.

[Major Hogwash]

137. How many other Senators' phones are bugged?

I think they should do a delousing for all of the 100 Senators today, if not sooner.

[sce56]

139. Maybe the op went they wanted to do in the world of black ops up is down and down is up

Look at all that comes out with a grain of salt you never know what is really happening in the shell games the intel types play! Want to find out who really was behind Nixon's fall and the Quote "intervention in Dallas" from Sen McCain in one of the Presidential debates! Read Family of Secrets available from amazon go to familyofsecrets.com to read the reviews on this book Russ Baker connects the dots of how the rich bankers and oil men run the country.

[elleng]

144. Surely a Repug exercise. Follow the money.

[Hubert Flottz]

147. K&R

Dumplin' Dave Vitter in Deep Sh!t...I don't think he'd mind.

[femrap]

164. Please remember Vitter....whenever his

named in mentioned....please write that he is the one who likes to be diapered like a baby by a woman to whom he pays a large sum of money. Then he shits himself and gets off on it. Yes, Senator Vitter...a real prevert and who received a standing ovation from his Repugnant peers when he returned to the Senate.

Vitter....a slimy critter.

[Blackhatjack]

169. I can't get that image out of my mind every time Vitter appears in public...

And yet he is loved and embraced by Republicans.

ANother is Ensign, who pursued and had an affair with the wife of a friend even after the friend became aware and demanded he stop.

The 'Party of Family Values' subscribes to values with which I am unfamiliar.

[femrap]

173. They have

perverted family values.

[Blackhatjack]

186. Interesting... dressed as phone repairmen they just wanted to see if the phones were working...LOL

LOL.

[defendandprotect]

170. Bet FOX News is covering this non-stop today . . . right?

:evilgrin:

[Oldtimeralso]

172. NOT,

They are more concerned about "someone" dissen the Fantastic Five (Roberts, Alito,etal)!

[Jefferson23]

175. I found this to be pretty hilarious, looks as though Beck is

referring to the incident as a Watergate, lol




Louisiana 'Watergate:' Glenn Beck is out


Posted January 27, 2010 2:25 PM
by Mark Silva

James O'Keefe has lost Glenn Beck.

O'Keefe, the young video warrior who surreptitiously taped employees of ACORN offering advice to him, dressed as a pimp, and his friend, dressed as a prostitute, had the backing of FOX News Channel's Beck all the way. Beck pursued the ACORN story with a vengeance, and it led to congressional calls to cut off the group's federal funding.

But O'Keefe, now accused with three others of posing as telephone repairmen in the New Orleans office of Democratic Louisiana Sen. Mary Landrieu, won't find any comfort from Beck's corner. O'Keefe and friends face federal charges for the incursion in the senator's office.

"If they were doing that, it's Watergate,'' Beck said on the radio today. "That's insanely stupid, and illegal - if it's true.

"You don't do anything illegal. That's Watergate territory,'' Beck suggested. "You just don't do that. Besides that, I don't think you even go dressed up. It's a senator, for the love of Pete, it's a senator.''

"Watergate'' -- that's what Louisiana Democrats are calling it, too. For his part, O'Keefe has said the truth shall come out -- "veritas,'' as he put it.


http://www.swamppolitics.com/news/politics/blog/2010/01/louisiana_watergate_glenn_beck.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%253A+chicagotribune%252Ftheswamp+%2528Chicago+Tribune-+The+Swamp%2529

[Blackhatjack]

185. How many hats does O'Keefe wear? Journalist-wannabe? Misguided youth? ....

The spin doctors are furiously spinning this as a non-story because O'Keefe and company were not really intending to commit a crime.

Last time I checked, a 25 yr old was not a minor.

[go west young man]

187. Your on the money.

The fact that the MSM is so rapidly accepting and spinning this as a non story means there is obviously something much more there.

[peacetalksforall]

190. jmowreader - your image of the big box is being redirected - are there any others?

Post 160. Second image.