Tweety just tried to mop up after his "I forgot he was black" statement.

[Berry Cool]

Essentially said, without reiterating what he was referring to, that he thinks Obama has transcended racialized politics, and that he really felt that coming through tonight.

So it's like I said. What he meant to say, in essence, wasn't bad; he just failed to think through the wording and of course what came out of his mouth sounded stupid and racist as hell.

[hlthe2b]

1. He means well... but faux pas sort of bubble out of him...

like corks from the shaken champagne bottle... It was a good explanation, however, I agree.

[KonaKane]

2. "He almost sounded white!"

Fucking dumbass should have just cut to the chase and said something like that.

[Berry Cool]

6. Nah, that would've been just as bad.

I mean, I truly believe him when he says what he meant was that he thinks nobody in the room gave a damn anymore or thought it was an issue what race Obama was anymore...including him...and he can easily recall a day when it would have been paramount. And that was what he was trying to say. But of course, when you're like him and you just say whatever comes to mind without thinking first of how to phrase it so you won't sound like a fool, you end up sounding like "I almost thought he was white" is what you DID mean.

[KonaKane]

55. Hence my point.

To be particular, think before you speak.

[gateley]

3. Just typical Tweety. I didn't judge him on it at all. nt

[Canuckistanian]

4. I ALWAYS forget that Tweety has any credibility

In fact, I can't remember when he had any at all.

[Vinnie From Indy]

5. Matthews is insane

He seems to have a unique form of Tourettes Syndrome. His tendency is to blurt out the most idiotic, off topic, dumbass remarks of anyone on a major network. And, he has been this way for years. It is a true wonder that this man has a job in television.

[Berry Cool]

7. I think he has it only because he's been around for so long

And because it also means that he's bound to say controversial stuff, and that gets ratings. But really, he's a living example of a person who fails to follow that old rule "Be sure brain is engaged before setting mouth in motion."

[EFerrari]

8. He's not insane but he is missing some kind of filter that most people have.

That's probably why he has a job, it must be exciting to one of his bosses to know at any moment he can tank their whole enterprise. lol

[freddie mertz]

31. HA! I always say that too. He has "Political Tourettes Syndrome."

He is driven by what he imagines to be "inspiration" into making some of the most ridiculous, self-defeating statements.

In the process, he also reveals the fundamental backwardness of his thinking on "social" issues.

For Tweety, at the semi-conscious level, the "normal" people in America (and in politics) are white, male, middle-aged, middle-class, and (preferably) Catholic.

He is forever trapped in a blue-collar, Catholic-centered, "east-midwestern", 1950s-60s world view.

Tim Russert was the same in many ways, but not borderline insane, like Tweety is.

[ibegurpard]

9. I believe him

He's just a loudmouth idiot in general though and he really shouldn't be on television.

[jobycom]

10. I don't see how that's better. That's what I thought he meant anyway.

:shrug: Why would he have expected Obama to use "racialized politics?" Why would he have thought of Obama as "black" as opposed to just president in the first place?

There's a great line in "A Time to Kill," where Carl tells his white lawyer Jake, "You don't see me as a man. You see me as a black man." Matthews's reset of his quote still doesn't lose that element, and that was the problem in the first place.

[AllenVanAllen]

11. Tweet gets kinda' punchy when he's up past his bedtime. n/t

[NOLALady]

12. Has any other President

transcended racialized politics?

[Raineyb]

14. Apparently only black people have to transcend racialized politics

and white people by default are above such petty things. :sarcasm:

I got real tired of hearing that shit in 2008. It hasn't become any less tired in 2010.

[Berry Cool]

40. I wish that wasn't true. Just as I wish a woman president wouldn't have the task

of having to get past being thought of as a "woman president"...but I know damn well she would.

As a woman, I really wish it were not the case. But it is.

The first woman president will have to put up with all kinds of crap before ever being regarded as "just a president"...if EVER.

Men, by default, are above such petty things, because they have been president forever.

I am tired of hearing that shit in 2010...but I know it is true, and it will be just as true in 2012, and for as long as it takes until some woman becomes president and makes it happen.

[RevCheesehead]

43. Exactly - look at what's happening to Nancy Pelosi.

I saw this in churches all the time, where more often than not, I was their "first woman pastor." I learned by watching the women bishops. The first ones took incredible crap for "not being effective enough" or "lazy, figure-head with no new ideas," etc. Once the second and third female bishops came along, it finally became "The Bishop."

As much as we wish otherwise, it's still a white man's world out there, until we prove them wrong.

[Raineyb]

54. Do you get that the implication when one talks of "transcending race" that

not being white is so sub par, so inherently wrong that one has to work to be seen as competent, decent, in other words white. It's offensive and as tired as I am of hearing this shit I'm even more tired of people making excuses for it. I don't give a bloody damn what the "default" setting is. The "default" needs to drop and people need to stop making excuses when things like what Tweety said pops out of their mouths.

[Raineyb]

13. What exactly do you think he meant to say that wasn't "so bad?"

Because I can't really come up with a permutation where what Tweety was saying isn't racist as hell.

[Berry Cool]

41. If I can't explain it to you, it probably can't be explained. n/t

[Raineyb]

51. The reason why you can't explain it is because it WAS racist as hell.

So the next question is: Why are you downplaying it?

[ginnyinWI]

15. Obama has been "trancendent" from the get-go.

It's just that Tweety has finally stopped seeing a him as a black President. Should have kept his mouth shut.

[Berry Cool]

42. You're right that the transformation is at least as much, if not more, in Tweety's head

as in anything else. And that's part of Tweety's problem. He tends to assume that everyone else out there is like him and thinks like him and shares his worldview. So that when he expresses his personal feelings, he's really speaking for everyone. Well, not quite.

[immoderate]

16. Tweety is provincial. He doesn't understand rock & roll.

Propriety and its consequent sneakiness dominates his world view.

--imm

[change_notfinetuning]

17. I forget Matthews is a paid, professional broadcaster and political expert

every time I see and hear him.

[Raine]

18. Tweety's brain and his mouth have a disconnect

he drives me up the wall but I don't think he's malicious.

[RoyGBiv]

19. Sorry, no, doesn't work ...

I know what he meant. What he meant is the bad part.

It is an indication that black people are expected to act and speak in a certain way that, given the context, is inferior to how a person of another race would act or speak. When they don't act or speak in that certain way, that is remarkable. Remarkable to whom? Well, obviously, it is remarkable to people who expect black people to act and speak in a certain way that, again in context, is inferior.

There's no other reason even to say it.

Does a white person say it about a white person ... ever?

This is nothing but variation of these similarly odious comments: "You don't sound like an Indian on the phone." "You'd never know he was gay just by looking at him."
"He's not like other immigrants."

Behind all these seemingly innocuous statements lies a prejudice that people of certain groups have a homogeneous identity. Whenever you hear someone say this, the context will almost always provide for a positive comparison to a negative expectation. Mr. Matthews remarks specifically suggest that the color of a person's skin should cause a person to expect that individual to speak or act in a way that clearly identifies him as a black person. But, as Mr. Matthews statement indicated, Obama didn't do that and so the former was able to forget, for an hour, that he was black.

Here's a thought experiment. Why are black individuals singled out for "transcending" racial politics? Try to find a white person in the United States speaking on any subject other than race specifically about whom it has been said has transcended racial politics. I'll wait here while you look.

I won't call the statement stupid. I am sure many people who make such statements genuinely believe they're saying something positive. I won't even say it is unexpected nor that it's not what other people were "thinking already." I will say, as I've said before, that people who think that way hold within them a racial prejudice and that they spend more energy trying to deny or rationalize it than rid themselves of it.

OnEdit: clarity

[Number23]

20. +5 bazillion. I am amazed (even though I know I shouldn't be) that so many are trying

to rationalize and even excuse what Matthews said. It's absolutely astounding.

[Blue_Tires]

25. my thoughts exactly...

[mikeytherat]

27. Chris Rock on Colin Powell:

"When people say, 'He's so well-spoken' or 'He speaks so well.' Of course he is! He's an educated, intelligent man: what the f**k did you expect him to sound like?"

mikey_the_rat

[dem629]

28. You get the sensitive award for the day.

Despite a few points deduction for over-reaching.

Still, good job.

[JTFrog]

32. ^^^this n/t

[SallyMander]

35. You said this SO well

Thanks, RGB.

[RevCheesehead]

45. I wish you'd post this as an original post, just so everyone can see it.

I wish I could K & R what you just nailed, so I'll rec. this thread. :thumbsup:

[Berry Cool]

46. No, a white person never DOES say it about a white person...and that's the point.

Because white people never think about other people's whiteness...just as black people never think about another person's blackness, and women never think about the fact that the other person they're talking to is a woman.

Unless that black person or woman or whatever is in a place the person didn't quite expect to find him or her--despite everything his or her brain intellectually tells him or her about the world.

"Well, I went to the doctor today for a checkup."

"So, what did he have to say?"

"Well, SHE said..."

Same thing happens when discussing nurses. We expect nurses to be female until told they are male. Oh, wouldn't it be great if we lived in such a post-sexist society that we didn't! But we don't.

White man wants to tell a fellow white man to keep an eye out for the white man's girlfriend he's never before met so they can all go to lunch. The girlfriend is black. The white companion asks what the girlfriend looks like so he will recognize her. "Well, she has black hair, brown eyes..." Will that person be looking for a white or a black or an Indian woman? Will he be surprised to see the girlfriend is black or Indian?

Black woman wants to tell a black friend to keep an eye out for a white friend of hers who happens to have black hair and brown eyes. No mention of race? Does she just say when asked "What does she look like?" "Well, she's got long black hair, brown eyes..."?

Oh, would that we never make assumptions based on race or gender! But we still do! Even us post-racist, post-sexist people! And when we do, we feel like idiots!

Most of us are past "You don't sound like an Indian on the phone" or "He's not like other immigrants." But I'd wager a whole lot of people really are not past "You'd never know he was gay just by looking at him." And that's just one.

Tweety, in his awkward, clumsy, open-mouth-insert-foot way, was trying to say that he's just realized he no longer really thinks of Obama as black (even past an hour, really). That's a big step for him. He's also assuming he's not alone--and he's probably right--even if we wish lots more white people were past needing to reach that milestone.

Of course black individuals are singled out for "transcending" racial politics. And women are singled out for "transcending" sexist politics. Depressing, but true. Of course, they're not doing all the work--a lot of it is going on within the heads of their beholders. But sadly, they still have to prove themselves more than white men ever will to get to that point.

It will truly be a great day when this form of transcending is no longer needed because no one is even thinking about this stuff anymore at all. But we're not there as a society yet.

And if we were...well then, explain to me why so many otherwise enlightened people who never think about race themselves seemed to be so convinced that Obama couldn't even get elected because of his race. Because OTHER white people somehow couldn't bring themselves to vote for a black man.

We don't yet live in a world in which no one ever regards someone's race as a thing that distinguishes him or her, or sets him or her apart, or makes assumptions about anyone or anything about a person based on race. Or sex. Or sexual orientation. Would that we did!

[RoyGBiv]

47. Answer ...

My answer to your question is simple and self-evident. We live in a racist, sexist, etc. society in which many, many people continue to rationalize or deny their behavior because it is a norm.

What Mr. Matthews or any of your examples said is not made better because they meant it as a compliment.

[fishwax]

57. well said, RoyGBiv

:thumbsup:

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

21. "I forgot his racial handicap of being a 300 lb Samoan attorney."

They're doing a lot of adrenochrome over at MSNBC.

[mikeytherat]

26. They forgot: only a TINY little taste (off the end of a matchstick).

mikey_the_rat

[FrenchieCat]

22. Don't forget , he only forgot for one hour....then soon after, he remembered.

[uponit7771]

23. lofl

[groundloop]

24. Dumb remark, didn't accomplish anything

My wife, who doesn't watch him that much, mentioned that she thought he talks too much. YUP, can't argue with that.

[Brewman_Jax]

29. Says a lot about Tweety

I'll bet he's never said that he forgot that Bush*/Clinton/Bush Sr./Reagan/Carter was white. :eyes:

When will they stop? :banghead:

[gratuitous]

30. Yeah, whatever Chris

Was there ever a State of the Whatever speech by President Obama's predecessor when you forgot for an hour that he's an imbecile? If so, why didn't you say it at the time? If not, why do you think that was?

[annabanana]

33. He looked dismayed at the way it came out first....

I think he was honestly trying to square his own background, and the neighborhood he grew up in with, well, the advances in perception that have been made.

[proud2BlibKansan]

34. What he meant to say does not matter

What he said - that's what matters. It's about perception, not intent.

[Dappleganger]

36. Apology fail.

[ecstatic]

37. He's been rooting for Obama from the start

so i don't think he meant any harm with his statement.

[Raineyb]

52. His intention doesn't make the comment less offensive.

I have no idea why so many people are under the impression that just because someone says something offensive but it was meant to be complimentary that it's not offensive. I don't give a damn what his intention was what he said was fucking stupid and bloody bigoted. He should just apologize and keep it moving. Instead he tries to clean up what he said. Does he really think black people buy that shit? (I won't ask about white people since the responses on this board shows that many white people DO buy that shit.)

[Peacetrain]

38. He put his foot in his mouth and took a walk..

[Half and Half]

39. He said something that probably didn't need to be said but...

most of you here are being silly about the racism stuff.

For the last year and a half the fact that B.O. is BLACK has been made a big issue, but lately it seems like people have gotten over it for the most part.

That was his point. That in 2 years we went from everyone freaking out over skin color to not really caring anymore. Thats what he thought was profound, that a year ago B.O. giving the SOTU address was a remarkable event, but now its "normal".

[burning rain]

44. I don't give people much credit for "what they mean."

People aren't entitled to their own terms. Words have a predictable meaning in a given time and place, whatever one personally "means" for them to mean. What Chris Matthews said, he may as well have said, "I can't picture a black guy being credible as president, so since Obama seemed credible, I didn't see him as black."

[Catherine Vincent]

48. Oh lord, what has Matthews done now? nt

[AlinPA]

49. Ok try this: "I watched Kobe Bryant the whole game, he was so good that I forgot that he

is black". How does that sound?

[Fire1]

50. Too late, mother fucker, too late! It's already registered. n/t

[GreenTea]

53. Na, Matthews was being sincere. However, republicans & racist didn't get past Obama's color that

Matthews obviously has and mentioned last night, and they never will.....They only saw a black man whom they hate and want to destroy and who think a black man has a no right to be president or any other leader in our country (as we see so clearly who makes up the republican party decade after decade, besides a token here & there).

Matthews clearly likes Obama and has said wonderful things about him and he was trying in to say it didn't matter once Obama started speaking (it should NEVER matter)...Matthews was just fumbling, awkward, and clumsy at saying it...tired, late who knows, still extremely clumsy.

But what Matthews wasn't taking into consideration is that most racist, republicans & Fox news idiots & sheep would never watch an Obama speech, ever. Their hate ideology & bigotry is far too great for them to overcome an African-American speaking for the nation and his vision and plans to make it certainly better than it is now.

No, my complaint with Tweety is his usual republican kiss-ass ways and his talking over people who are very progressives, liberals who are making excellent points on his show that Matthews doesn't agree with.

Again, there was no way Matthews was being a racist, a Limbaugh, a Buchanan, or all the rest, Matthews is in no way like them....it's just his politics & machine-gun talking over people that I usually can't stand and that drives me crazy!!

[fascisthunter]

56. and he wants to run for office

no thanks