Superfast Bullet Trains Are Finally Coming to the U.S.

[kpete]

Source: Wired

Believe it: Bullet trains are coming. After decades of false starts, planners are finally beginning to make headway on what could become the largest, most complicated infrastructure project ever attempted in the US. The Obama administration got on board with an $8 billion infusion, and more cash is likely en route from Congress. It’s enough for Florida and Texas to dust off some previously abandoned plans and for urban clusters in the Northeast and Midwest to pursue some long-overdue upgrades. The nation’s test bed will almost certainly be California, which already has voter-approved funding and planning under way. But getting up to speed requires more than just seed money. For trains to beat planes and automobiles, the hardware needs to really fly. Officials are pushing to deploy state-of-the-art rail rockets. Next stop: the future.

Read more: http://www.wired.com/magazine/2010/01/ff_fasttrack/

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

1. They'll be Liebertiffic!

[avaistheone1]

126. Amazing bullet trains for manufacturing that is no longer here, and for people who can't

afford health insurance, much less take a vacation.

Who comes up with this stuff?

:rofl:

[BunkerHill24]

2. Money well spent elsewhere, imo

on edit: I think the VP is pushing this no-where-fast-train.....it's his pet project.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

4. Where?

[BunkerHill24]

10. I don't know where.....but this amount of money can be spent elsewhere

.....giving tax credits to low-income families....or tax exempt anyone making less than 30K.

...extending welfare benefits....or giving more tax credits of business' that hire ppl on welfare, or un-employed...or free prescription drugs for seniors who aren't able to pay their medication, etc, etc, etc...


But not a high-speed-train no one will benefit on the short-run-to-Delaware

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

11. A pimple on the ass of "Defense" spending.

:think:

[butterfly77]

19. This will create jobs.

and will make traveling more efficent and accessible for many who are hired..

[quiller4]

144. One identified location is Seattle-Portland where Amtrak ridership

is up more than 10% each year for the last 6 years and had increased 20% over 2008 by midway through 2009. In this corridor the track building alone will create more than 2500 family-wage jobs.

[TheWraith]

21. Suddenly DUers are against infrastructure spending.

What a shock that some people here are looking for any excuse to bash Obama.

Oh, and free expensive prescription drugs for seniors? So you support giveaways to big pharma? :eyes: :sarcasm:

[glowing]

164. You are wrong. They were in Tampa today. 10yrs ago the FL people decided to

fund a super train between Tampa and Orlando.. Bush stalled (take a look into his stealing from the toll booths).. anyway, he stalled, and then 2006 FL went under... no money. the plans are sitting there. People want a 30 min commute between the beach and Disney. I-4 sucks. It opens up so much opportunity for people commuting and for people on vacation. I can't wait until it is done. It was supposed to start years ago.

[Dappleganger]

178. +1

[WhiteTara]

6. I prefer train travel

but the rails are so slow...4 days across the country with endless delays for freight.

[Posteritatis]

8. I'm kinda bemused that we consider four days to cross the continent slow nowadays... (nt)

[DaveinJapan]

As opposed to what, a wagon train? n/t

[jdp349]

148. 4 hours vs 4 days...

are you sure bemused means what you think it means?

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

12. "Endless delays."

:cry:

[Hannah Bell]

36. why? gotta start somewhere. i'd prefere somewhere else but florida, however.

eastern corridor seems a better bet, population-wise, but maybe also more expensive.

[Juche]

3. Good

Despite our land mass we are mostly a collection of large metro areas.

Here in Indiana a connection between Chicago and Indianapolis, or Indy and the Columbus/Cincinnati area may come in handy.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

5. Aren't high speed rail and bullet trains two different things?

Yes, bullet trains travel at high speed, but that's not what I mean.

[gula]

100. They sure are

I've heard NO talk of bullet trains in the states, but high-speed trains only

[Hannah Bell]

120. wrong: "bullet train" is colloquially derived from japanese "shinkansen" which was the first

high-speed train.

they're interchangeable for most intents & purposes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shinkansen

Bullet train may refer to:

The Shinkansen high speed trains of Japan, so nicknamed for their appearance
Other high speed trains of a similar appearance to the original Japanese trains

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullet_train

[gula]

123. I stand corrected. There are still differences

between high-speed trains on dedicated versus conventional tracks.

I always thought bullet referred to the former. Never too old to learn.

[Hannah Bell]

124. it's my understanding that high-speed trains require track upgrades.

i walk the (still in use - amtrak & freight) tracks near my house almost daily & notice how many rotted ties & pulled pins there are --

but they've also got piles of new oiled ties beside the tracks in the area where i walk -- not sure what the plan is --

i'd love to see any upgrade to our rr's happen. i love trains.

thanks for your courtesy, btw.

[WriteDown]

7. You need LONG FLAT STRAIGHT runs for these trains...

I will be very interested how they plan on making this a reality.

[Froward69]

13. Denver to

Omaha, Kansas city, Dallas... 1000 miles of "Flat and straight" in all three directions.

[Romulox]

17. Well, that's lovely for those 3 cities...but why should all of America pay for it?

:shrug:

[Froward69]

91. Omaha to Des Moines, Chicago on to Detroit then NY

following I-80...

come to think of it with your logic why did all of America pay for an Interstate highway system?

or ANY infrastructure for that matter... hell we should all be on dirt unimproved roads because the rest of america should not have had to pay for it.

Right???

republican Bullshit logic that is.

[Name removed]

106. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

140. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Romulox]

138. That's not how Amtrack worked out, is it?

Amtrack= massive subsidy to th NE. :hi:

[Froward69]

183. All I was pointing out was

how cheap/less expensive it would be to those cities. across the great plains we could build miles per day, as their are hardly any obstructions.

[mopinko]

188. tons of old railroad right of way.

lots of small towns that have been slowly dying thanks to the end of train service to them.
i love this, because i am in chicago. first california, then us.

[LanternWaste]

186. And a great way to get from Ft Worth to Austin and back again...

"Amtrack= massive subsidy to th NE..."

And my favorite way to get from Ft Worth to Austin and back again...

[laughingliberal]

194. +1 nt

[Spider Jerusalem]

202. Because anything that reduces oil dependence and CO2 emissions is good for everyone?

Just for a start.

[SpiralHawk]

25. With a stop in Lincoln on the way to Omaha

would be commonsensical and cool...

[WriteDown]

26. The problems would be for the houses and property in the way of those routes. nt

[intheflow]

163. You could run the tracks in the interstate highway divides

for the long stretches. And they'll probably revise existing tracks into urban train stations.

[WriteDown]

81. I think San Fran to Denver would be cool and then maybe straight on to Vail. nt

[Froward69]

85. back to vail

as Denver is further away from San Fran. plus the mountains are in the way.

[WriteDown]

87. We can blast through them. nt

[Froward69]

182. I am a big fan of

tunnel boring machines. the first one I would like to see done would be a light rail tunnel bored from Morrison (suburb of Denver) to Keystone, looped around Dillon lake (serving Keystone, Breckenridge, Dillon) and back. alleviating winter traffic on I-70.

[BunkerHill24]

14. I say improve the AMTRAK...make it efficient...invest the logistics that are there already

Don't spend billions for un-known high-speed/fast-train no one has the capacity to understand.

[KonaKane]

37. HAHAHAH!!!

No seriously, ha hahahah!! AMTRAK is a decrepit joke. Scrap the SOB and lets get with the rest of the developed world on this.

High speed rail. NOW.

[terryg11]

46. unproven??

you realize europe and japan at least have used high speed rails for over a decade now right?
and if i remember correctly they are electric such the emt in france so they are environmentally friendly too

[DaveinJapan]

78. More like half a century for Japan. ;) n/t

[laughingliberal]

195. In order to halt progress it is necessary to keep Americans in the dark about the rest of the world

and it's working very well, huh?

Can't believe there are people who don't know these have been in use in other countries for a while, now. This kind of ignorance and obstinance could have something to do with how the rest of the world moved ahead of us on automobiles.

[Hannah Bell]

95. first bullet train went into service in 1964: 130 mph in 1964.

Japan was one of the first countries to realise the problems of the car. With very dense city centres such as tokyo and being such a densly populated country it was realised the motor car was not the way foreward. The Bullet train could be thought of as the worlds first high speed train. Services started in 1964 with speeds at 210km/h or 131mph, the fastest trains went at the time, and many countries (including the USA) still have no trains running at this speed. At the time the concept of "high speed" wasn’t really established as it is now. Indeed many say it was the success of the bullet train which lead to Europe taking interest in making trains go fast. Since then the trains have been going faster and faster..

http://www.o-keating.com/hsr/bullet.htm

[PacerLJ35]

185. A few points...

1. These trains aren't "un-known"...they have been in use in many parts of the world for some time.

2. AMTRAK...you've got to be kidding. Please, please, please...if we ever develop a high-speed rail system, please don't let it be run like AMTRAK.

[progressoid]

191. Problem with AMTRAK is that it uses privately owned freight rail

And freight gets priority. AMTRAK can't become efficient as long as it is always secondary to freight traffic.

[Greyhound]

200. Bingo! As is their usual practice, Congress turned AMTRAK into a corporate welfare program.

That seems to be the bottom line to most of what used to be all social programs.

[WritingIsMyReligion]

18. Ever been to the Midwest?

Ungodly flat out here--very scary. Granted, that's not where they're trying to put the trains, it seems, but it's absurdly flat.

[WriteDown]

28. Depends on which part, but there would still be a lot of property in the way...

of your train routes.

[Hannah Bell]

38. most of the real estate is already available, in old rail lines & right of ways.

[WriteDown]

47. I haven't seen anything indicating that...

Old rail lines are not nearly straight enough to handle these high speed trains.

[Hannah Bell]

52. having ridden japan's shinkansen: they don't have to be dead straight.

they have to be straight to achieve top speeds. the trains can & do slow down, & the shinkansen doesn't run on dead straight tracks.

same as with any rr.

plus, plenty of the us tracks & right of ways are straight for long distances.

i've also ridden high-speed trains in europe.

sure, europe & japan, with something like 100-300 people per square mile & economies smaller than the us - can lay high-speed track --

but the US can't. it's too hard for us.

hardy har har.

[WriteDown]

60. Still straighter than our existing tracks and still FLATTER...

Europe and Japan both started these projects after WWII flattened the countries. We can build them, but expect a lot of Kelo vs. New London to be used to make it happen. Of course just like in Kelo, people will be offered fair market value as determined by the US Govt for their property. :rofl:

[HeresyLives]

64. The countries were never flattened.

Neither in Europe, Japan, China or the UK...or for that matter, Argentina.

[WriteDown]

I was using it in place of "bombed to hell."

Not literally.

[HeresyLives]

68. Well, they weren't. n/t

[Hannah Bell]

72. ww2 flattened japan's ground surface? you don't know what you're talking about.

niigata:

http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&source=hp&q=niigata%20ski&aql=&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wi

japanese alps:

http://www.oxalis-adventures.com/japan/mountains_central_japan.php


"mountains cover about 80% of the islands of japan"

[WriteDown]

77. I was using a euphemism. nt

[Hannah Bell]

92. no, you weren't. because if you were just talking about bombing buildings, it would be irrelevant

to this discussion.

you were under the impression japan was mostly flat.

[WriteDown]

97. I've been to Japan genius.

:rofl: My friend is in fact a semi-famous mountain climber there which makes it even funnier. She's amer-asian, but I don't think she's ever coming back. I'll be back in Tokyo in April for a very special occasion.

[Hannah Bell]

101. sure, that's why you talk about japan being "flattened" in ww2. if you'd

been to japan you'd know most of the countryside wasn't bombed, you'd know the bullet trains aren't on absolutely straight, flat tracks, & you'd know japan is mostly mountains.

none of which you apparently know.

nihonwadokonisundeimashitaka?

[WriteDown]

102. Next time I'll say bombed to hell just so I can make it clear for the context challenged...

Everything is degrees. Relatively flat, relatively staight. If I knew how to type in kanji, hiragana or katakana then we could have an interesting conversation assuming your nihongo is up to snuff.

[Name removed]

109. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Hannah Bell]

116. btw: nihon wa doko ni sundeimashita ka? = "where did you live in japan?",

not, "do you speak japanese?"

uso o tsuku koto ga dame daro.

[Bonobo]

136. And much more polite than I would have asked too! nt

[Hannah Bell]

168. it wouldn't take much snuff to equal zero.

[27inCali]

54. the trains will be crossing through these regions eventually

the Sierra Nevada and Rockies will be a problem, but you can make up a lot of time in the flat places in between.

IMAGINE AN ENVIRONMENTALLY FRIENDLY ELECTRIC TRAIN THAT CAN TRAVEL FROM SAN FRANCISCO TO NEW YORK, HITTING LOT'S OF MAJOR CITIES IN BETWEEN THAT IS MORE CONVENIENT THAN FLYING!!!

[Bonobo]

51. Yup, no mountains here in Japan!

[Hannah Bell]

55. japanese alps, etc. japan is volcano country - edit: 80% = mountainous.

yes, japan can lay high-speed track, despite its mountains & high population density -- but here in the us, it's just toooooooo difficult.

[WriteDown]

62. I bet the ride over Fuji is awesome! nt

[Hannah Bell]

75. dupe

[WriteDown]

79. So?

It doesn't go over the mountains. I have no doubt that we could blast a nice route through the rockies and the appalachians.

[Hannah Bell]

76. Echigo-Yuzawa_Station

Echigo-Yuzawa Station (越後湯沢駅, Echigo-Yuzawa-eki?) is a train station operated by East Japan Railway Company (JR East), located in the (SKIING) resort town of Yuzawa in Niigata Prefecture, Japan. Facilities at the station include souvenir shopping and eating facilities, as well as a sake-themed attraction complete with an indoor onsen bath.

Echigo-Yuzawa Station is serviced by the following lines:

JR East
Jōetsu Shinkansen
Jōetsu Line
Hokuetsu Express
Hokuhoku Line

Gala-Yuzawa Station (ガーラ湯沢駅, Gāra-yuzawa-eki?) is a seasonal railway station located in Yuzawa, Niigata, Japan. The station is operated by East Japan Railway Company (JR East).

The station is served by the Gala-Yuzawa Line from Echigo-Yuzawa Station, and forms the only station on this 1.8 km branch line. Services are classed as "Limited express", although they are actually extensions of Jōetsu Shinkansen Tanigawa services. The station is open to passengers only during the winter ski season, usually from mid-December until April.

[WriteDown]

80. So?

It doesn't go over the mountains! I have no doubt we could blast a nice path through the rockies and appalachians. All we have to decide on is a spot to start blasting.

[Hannah Bell]

88. no train goes "over the mountains". they go through passes. we have them, japan has them,

& our trains went through them circa 1880s.

unless you're saying we don't know how to put trains through mountain passes (we have existing dedicated railbed & right of ways), i'm not sure what your point is.

Mine is: Bullet trains don't require totally straight, totally flat track. Nor is finding land to put bullet trains on the big obstacle you're making it out to be. The US has thousands of miles of existing railbed & railroad right of ways.

[WriteDown]

90. Like I said, I'm with you..

All we need is good old fashioned dynamite and some blasting caps. Its going to be awesome.

[Hannah Bell]

94. Railbeds already exist. But I guess somehow the japanese can do it,

and continue to do it, but we americans are too poor & stupid.

[WriteDown]

96. We are not going to be using existing railbeds and the ones we do..

will require modification. I want a rail that goes from San Fran to Chicago to NY and down to Miami. It can be done, but it'll require a lot of blasting, digging, and people getting out to the way.

[Hannah Bell]

105. the rail bed isn't the *rails,* genius. yes, existing rail *bed* is mostly perfectly useable.

tear out the old tracks, lay new ones.

the blasting was done long ago.

[WriteDown]

141. But if you look at the existing plans, we are not using existing railbeds...

why is that?

[Hannah Bell]

152. wakaranai, nihongo de itte kudasai.

[Bonobo]

156. "Ahokaomae*! LOL!!! nt

[Hannah Bell]

159. kansai?

[Bonobo]

160. yoku wakatta.

20 nenmae ni shite ha yoku oboeteiru na.

honma ni.

[Hannah Bell]

165. *me*?

if i'm understanding you correctly, totemo yasashii desu kedo....chigau....

[WriteDown]

177. Do you want me to say it or type it?

Let me know when you're done with that route from San Fran to Chicago.

[Hannah Bell]

198. wakarahen. sumahen,nihongokaitekudasai.

[Art_from_Ark]

201. In Japan, they did not use existing railbeds

but instead built new, dedicated tracks above the ground level so that the trains would not come into contact with road traffic.

[27inCali]

53. Los Angeles to Sacramento

is such a stretch if you subtract the grapevine.

train will have to travel slower through the grapevine (probably would add an hr to the trip), but once it is over has nothing but flat farm land all the way to Sacramento.

I can imagine a speed train connecting the major cities of the South West too.

[NYC_SKP]

103. May as well let her rip past LA to San Diego, no?

I'm sick of that drive from Stockton to SD or LA.

Flying isn't bad, but train travel is laid back.]]

[Hannah Bell]

67. here's a shinkansen route. gee, i wonder how they managed those curves?

joetsu line runs to the moutainous "snow country" of niigata, up to the ski resort towns.

[WriteDown]

70. A map without scale...

Didn't think you could even make one of those. :rofl:

[Hannah Bell]

82. ...through the mountains....

October 1997 marked the opening of the first 117.4-km section of the Hokuriku Shinkansen between Takasaki and Nagano....The most difficult part through steep mountains between Karuizawa and Nagano was completed under-budget in just 6 years with few construction accidents. Since the opening, passengers from Tokyo to Nagano can now now take the Series E2 Asama (name of local volcano) through service on the Joetsu Shinkansen from Tokyo Station that runs on to the Hokuriku Shinkansen at Takasaki to reach Nagano in just 1 hour and 23 minutes, cutting about 90 minutes off the previous journey.



I, like some others here, actually lived in japan, rode its trains, including on curves & through mountains.


you, who's never been there, insists the bullet trains require totally straight, totally flat ground, & won't accept information that says otherwise.

which means you're silly.

doesn't seem you've ever ridden a train in the us, either.

[WriteDown]

89. I'm with you...

blast through the rockies and appalachians like we did with our highways and roads. Where would you like to start?

[suffragette]

93. Lyria does fine in Switzerland and France

around curves and moutains.



http://www.raileurope.co.uk/Default.aspx?tabid=452

Fast, stylish travel between France and Switzerland

TGV Lyria trains, which run from Paris to Geneva, Lausanne, Zurich, Bern and Basel, will whisk you between France and Switzerland. Travelling at speeds of up to 320kmph (200mph), TGV Lyria trains serve major ski resorts and the Swiss lakes, as well as being an intercity service.

edited to add link

[WriteDown]

98. Flat and relatively straight.

If we can find the same here that goes where we want, then we'll have no problem.

[suffragette]

107. You see the curve the train just completed, don't you?

And Switzerland, flat?
Right.

[WriteDown]

112. Look up "relatively" in the dictionary...

Please outline the route you would like to take from San Fran to NY as well or at least to Chicago.

[suffragette]

115. That looks to me like a fairly sharp curve

I get the impression that you're enjoying yourself and that's fine. Go for it.

Others have already pointed out what would need to be done and that other countries have accomplished that.

They've built passes, tunnels, and bridges as appropriate.

Hell, they even created the Chunnel and got the highspeed Eurostar to connect France and England and if that engineering feat could be managed, I'm confident our engineers can find a way to build what is needed.

[WriteDown]

142. "Looks to me..."

Yeah, its about frequency and relativity. Outer space doesn't seem so far to me either.

[suffragette]

151. "What's the Frequency, Kenneth?"

Frequency, relativity, outer space?
Sounds like you're taking this conversation to some great beyond.

I'm just down here on earth thinking engineers will be innovative enough to build rail if they're finally given resources, especially since many of the major engineering problems have been worked on previously in other countries.

[spinbaby]

119. Japan isn't flat

And they managed to install bullet trains.

[donco6]

181. Lotsa long flat out here.

Denver to Dallas is flat as a pancake. Denver to KC or Omaha the same (except in the KS Flint Hills.) Up and down Front Range is pretty flat.

But how can they run in Japan? It's not a big flat expanse, either.

[flyarm]

9. what they are offering is only 1/2 of what Fla asked for just to get the project off the ground..

this state is in a depression and has been for alot longer than the rest of the nation..there is no money for the other 1/2 Fla was not offered.

And then of course what the bullet train will do..get tourists to Disney..you know very republican Disney Corp....owners of ABC TV and ESPN..

That is what your tax dollars will be going to..a feeder for Disney!

On our Tampa news just now..that won't even scratch the surface to build it..it will be way over what is estimated ..( which was done a long time ago..not at today's dollars) and the Fla tax payers will be stuck with the biggest part of the bill..which is expected to build much much higher In real $$$$$$$ ..

Not going to go over well with tax payers with a 11.8 % unemployment rate and an exploding foreclosure rate on homes and condo's. Counties around Tampa and Hillsboro County at 14% +...

Yes Obama got a town hall..but it spells bad news for taxpayers of Florida!

Oh and did I mention that our hotels are at low low occupancy..very low ..and it is Tourist season..and tourists that pay a big % of taxes in Fla..

[movonne]

15. I thought train transportation was very popular when he talked

about it in his campaign speeches...but no matter what he does it will not please others..

[Starbucks Anarchist]

40. You've finally unraveled the Mickey Mouse conspiracy!

:eyes:

[Alias Dictus Tyrant]

16. I'll believe it when I see it.

I've seen these announcements my entire life. It is like fusion power, always around the corner.

[harun]

23. I am glad they are trying but like you I am not hopeful. Would take many

years of Dem majorities for it to happen. Repug's get in power they will kill every one of these projects dead.

So if we have a strong Dem Congress for the next 30 years we will end up with an awesome transportation system like Spain. With Repug's at the reign's we will end up with SUV's getting 12 mpg driving on toll roads.

[scubadude]

20. For the midwest at least this is a bit of a joke.

Yeah, high speed rail being limited to 110mph throughout the corn fields of the Midwest. That makes sense. Frankly you could do that in a car... A trip to St. Louis would be around 4.5 hours or more including terminal time.

With no high speed rail it currently it takes about 6.5 hours between St. Louis and Chicago including a half hour on either end.

Right now you can take an airplane between St. Louis and Chicago for under $100 round trip with a flight time under 2 hours, add security screening and the time is still less than it is for high speed rail at 110mph. Sure, the cost is about $40 more than the current rail trip, but that isn't a big deal considering the time savings.

Now in Europe they do things right. 186mph for the Eurostar between London and Paris, including over 50 miles in a tunnel under the English Channel, all done in great comfort.

Why do we always think small?

[TheWraith]

22. Yeah, I'm sure everybody casually and safely drives 110 miles an hour in their car when commuting.

Are people thinking before they bash?

[scubadude]

108. So you suggest people commute between Chicago and St. Louis?

Calling it "high speed" when it's slower than what some Amtrak trains are already do, 150mph, is ridiculous. Isn't the Midwest the perfect place for bullet trains that could do 250mph or more? Lots of open space and virtually no hills.

Scuba

[flyarm]

171. well think of this : $30.00 each way ..$30.00 one way fare from Tampa to Orlando

that is what the projected fare will be as told on Tampa news tonight..the very night Obama was here..on our Tampa news tonight ..it will cost $60 bucks roundtrip at the prices today before constrution begins..with out all the over runs or the $$$$$$$$$$ taxes that will go up high to pay for it ..

tell me what "commuters" do you know could pay $60.00 a day to commute?????????..and for cheap Disney jobs..you are joking right?

This will be a Disney tourist train. A feeder train for Disney. It isn't even going to go to Downtown Orlando.

It was planned as a Disney train..and they threw in Lakeland and the Convention Center that sits empty most of the time..to make it "look Like" it wasn't a Disney train!

Oh and the $$ the feds will kick in isn't even half of what was asked for.

and the price tag..isn't close to what it will cost..the prices for the train planning were drawn up in 2000..not at todays$$$ price.

The taxpayers will bear the brunt of god knows how much!

Oh and we here in Fla have a high season..with lots of tourists..and a very low season with few tourists..the upkeep on these trains will be high..and have low occupancy in low season.

What a wonderful gift the txpayers will be gifting Disney..you know..the very Republican Disney!

Oh..and midway ..we have lots of sink holes..wonder how they will work out for the trains?

Glad to see you want your tax money going for a feeder train ..for Disney!

[SnakeEyes]

34. The 110mph limit.

The limit is only on trains that are adapted for many existing rail. Upgraded rail lines can accommodate faster speeds provided they have the stretches of land for it. Many of the HSR proposals do not use old rail.

[Cass]

45. There's no highway anywhere in this country that allows people to drive 110 mph.

People can't control their cars at 85 mph, can you imagine the carnage on a highway full of cars speeding along at 110 mph?

[scubadude]

110. I've driven in many cars that handle 110mph with ease.

Some a lot faster than that...

The point is the map with the plans shows has the train speeds in the Midwest after high speed rail changes at 110mph. That is a very low speed to be calling it High Speed Rail. Add about 70mph on it and it equals the Europeans slowest high speed rail...

Scuba

[Cass]

135. Oh sure, many cars can handle it but the drivers...not so much.

Anyway, I do get your larger point about rail speed but was just commenting about the bit in your post about doing 110 mph in a car. Its all good.

[liberalpragmatist]

113. Gotta start somewhere

Getting 110-mph trains back in service (we had them in the '40s) is a good first step. And speaking of the St. Louis - Chicago route, there's seed money in there to also study a true 220mph high speed route that would run through Springfield and Champagne.

[Zebedeo]

149. If it runs from Chicago through Champagne

that will be an engineering feat indeed, as it will have to go under (or over or through) the Atlantic Ocean to do so. Maybe you meant Champaign.

[WildEyedLiberal]

197. Haha

As someone who lives in central Illinois, I'd be absolutely thrilled to have a route that connected St. Louis, Springfield, Champaign, Chicago, and/or Indianapolis. As it is, I have to drive three hours in any direction if I need to go a major airport or city. Lots of people live in central IL and are completely dependent on cars to get anywhere. If done right, we could have a system similar to the extensive rail system in the UK, where you can go to virtually any decent-sized population center without a car from anywhere in the country.

[scubadude]

161. It's always cheaper to do it right the first time.

That is why you don't see many new expressways going in. They cost too much in today's labor. Hmmm, with what's going on though in government, perhaps labor will be cheaper in the future...

Scuba

[Hannah Bell]

154. where do you see 110mph in this article? or the midwest? my understanding is the

the project is in florida & includes new rail.

= ~200 mph.

[scubadude]

162. There are too many places for me to show you the limit.

It's in there, look for the "Fast or Super Fast" heading for the figure. Look further if you need verification.

Scuba

[Hannah Bell]

167. oh, i see. i didn't get to the back pages. plus i confused this article with another one.

my mistake, pardon.

[HeresyLives]

24. World's fastest train unveiled in China

Thursday, 10 December 2009

As China's economy and population expand, so do its transport needs. Although car ownership is on the increase, the Government is investing more in the railways.

China now has the fastest train in the world. It runs from the central city of Wuhan down to the south coast, at a speed of more than 380km/h.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/8406910.stm


Watch the video.

[Posteritatis]

29. And of course everyone knows China's flat as a pool table - oh, wait

I just love the excuses people keep tossing up to say that high speed rail is feasible everywhere on the planet except the United States, or if they're being honest parts of the United States they don't care about.

[HeresyLives]

30. Heh heh, yes indeed.

High-speed trains in Europe, Japan, China, even Argentina.

Amazing how many 'flat' countries there are isn't it?

[WriteDown]

50. We just need WWIII to completely flatten a good part of the country...

then building will be easy.

[Bonobo]

117. I know your type.

They come to Japan for a short time and profess admiration. Inside, their shrunken hearts are filled with envy and anger and resentment.

Yes, I have met many of your ilk here. But we don't hang out much.

I don't care for sour grapes.

[WriteDown]

143. Envy?

I love Japan. In fact the Japanese and I may be distantly related.

[Hannah Bell]

155. k/uso.

[WriteDown]

174. Still waiting for those plans from San Fran to Chicago....

Just let me know when you have a rough draft.

[Hannah Bell]

199. urusenyaro.

[LanternWaste]

187. He's found his talking point

He's found his talking point, and all will devolve to that or be dismissed. (Relatively speaking, that is...)

[WriteDown]

49. Wonder what China's eminent domain laws are like...

Do you think they offer fair market value?

:rofl:

[HeresyLives]

56. Europe has them, so does Japan.

[WriteDown]

57. Easy to build after your country in flattened in a World War....

All we need is WWIII to flatten the US and then we could build some amazing things.

[HeresyLives]

59. Doesn't need to be flat.

I don't know why you think it does. The trains can go up and down, and around curves and all.

[WriteDown]

63. Degrees...

There are specific limits to curves and grade change.

[HeresyLives]

66. Yes, and the train doesn't travel at top speed

the entire time.

Much of the world has them, dude. Why can't the US?

[WriteDown]

69. We can...

But we'll have to Kelo a lot of people. I'm all for it as long as I'm not one of the people Kelo'd.

[HeresyLives]

71. I think you're just trying to be difficult,

for the sake of being difficult.

[WriteDown]

73. No...

I do believe that any serious large-scale train route like from NY to San Fran is going to require a lot of Kelo. I'm just hoping that I'm not living along the route at the time.

[HeresyLives]

74. Well the routes are laid out,

so you'd already know.

[Heywood J]

130. Except that the Japanese built them fifteen years after the war was over

and things had been rebuilt...

[WriteDown]

145. Still easier to build at that point....

Feel free to map out some US routes you would like to install though.

[Hannah Bell]

158. tokyo, 1964, year tokyo-osaka shinkansen inaugurated

[WriteDown]

175. Im pretty sure that was after WWII...

You may want to read the interview with Michael Dukakis in Wired where he talks about bullet trains being viable in the Southeast where population distribution Is similar to Japan.

[Lerkfish]

27. high speed trains are the perennial boondogle

they say they're coming at city after city, they commission "studies" to test their feasibility, these studies cost millions, and then it falls by the wayside. Lather, rinse, repeat for the last 30 years in a rotating schedule at various cities. This is just the federal version of the scam.

[Name removed]

43. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Canuckistanian]

61. Monorail!!

[RB TexLa]

31. We have great plans here for the Trans Texas Corridor but local morons screamed about a NAFTA

superhighway so advancement was shelved for the time being.

[upi402]

32. Seattle's trains don't stop near people or parking

Just at good sites. People will still need expensive taxis to use the train, or impose on someone to drop them off. I hope bikes are used, but doesn't it rain in Seattle too much for that?


Anyhow, I sure hope to see more of this catching up with developing nations here in America!

[Hannah Bell]

39. ?? pioneer square area isn't near people or parking? which "seattle trains"

are you thinking of?

why would you need a taxi, you can take the bus direct to the station, works fine unless you're too old/handicapped to carry luggage. i've done it for 40 years.

better than driving downtown.

[suffragette]

65. Exactly

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_Street_Station_%28Seattle%29



That's one of the great parts about taking the train. You go from the center of one city to the center of another.
No need to travel out of town to the airport (though with having both buses and light rail, that's easier now as well).

Would be lovely to reduce the train travel time to Vancouver BC.

[NoFace]

169. whoops, nvmd.

[boppers]

114. "doesn't it rain in Seattle too much"?

Yes, because, you know, bicycles don't work in the rain.

http://blog.zenlinux.com/?cat=38

With love from Portland.

[quiller4]

147. Seattle's King Street Station is served by bus and light rail

and there is plenty of parking. I have taken Metro and Sounder to the King Street Station although I frequently begin my train journeys in Tacoma but I've made the Seattle to Portland run plenty of times without use of taxis.

[557188]

33. Waste of money, should be going towards urban mass transit

I don't see the appeal of long distance "fast" trains in this country. The plane has made train travel, in this country, something of a novelty for the select few who are afraid to fly. I've done the Amtrak thing, just to experience it, and can honestly say I never want to travel the country by train again. Flying is a much better, and more economical, experience all around. I doubt that will change.

These "fast" trains aren't even that fast by modern standards.

Where this money SHOULD be going is in a large scale investment into urban mass transit systems. The Los Angeles Metrorail system could use more funding to help their ambitious expansion plans. Many cities would benefit with a modern mass transit system. People don't want to use buses for mass transit and many cities across our country only have buses for public transportation. A public transit system is something people can use daily instead of an infrequent high speed train trips to another city.

Connecting LA to San Francisco will be neat, as a novelty, but I am much more interested in my daily travel in the city of Los Angeles than a luxury trip to San Francisco.

Improve the urban infrastructure first. It desperately needs it.

[miyazaki]

139. You got that right.

The Ca. High Speed Rail will probably end up costing upwards of a hundred billion dollars. The bungled
bureaucracy of the state is second to none.

[Owl]

35. Unfortunately we don't build any of this stuff. What country should we buy them from?

[w8liftinglady]

41. That's the drag-unless we can retool automotive plants..

[Selatius]

42. The French. Here's their promo video for their next generation high-speed rail.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CB6tgKT-u1Q

[HeresyLives]

44. A thing of beauty. Thank you. n/t

[quiller4]

150. We build and remanufacture some of the equipment here.

Roanoke VA is the center of remanufacture of rail equipment. American Motive Power in Dansville New York also remanufactures US and foreign power plants. Brookville Equipment in PA makes switches used around the world. Clifton Steel in Maple Heights, Ohio makes couplers that are used by manufacturers around the world. Enidine in Orchard Park New Yor makes hydraulic and motion control products for rail and aviation.

We export components all over the globe for companies that manufacture locomotives.

[Lord Helmet]

48. cool map from huffpost --

[WriteDown]

83. Seems like the mountains prevent any routes I would want to take...

Except maybe that one from LA to NC.

[Lord Helmet]

86. It's a modest start to hopefully some day cross-country.

[Canuckistanian]

58. Who wants teeny tiny trains the size of bullets?

You can't get people on them. Sure, they may go fast, but try putting your luggage on one. It'll tip over!

Oh...... never mind.

[NYC_SKP]

104. I know. And I'm allergic to gunpowder. n/t

[zoff]

84. The reasons given for opposing high-speed rail ...

demonstrate backward and non-progressive thinking. Curves, flats, grades are engineering issues more easily solved than people think (for an example, read up on tilting trains). Right-of-way, eminent domain are concepts designed to deliver a greater good; maybe not always in practice. Also, expect the airline and private transport sectors to lobby against this. Rail can, no, will, open up opportunities where present modes of transport cannot. Rail is so socialist, why would anyone at DU be against this?

[cherokeeprogressive]

122. Hypothetical: The environmental impact study commissioned for your pet high speed rail project

has found that the land confiscated from its rightful owners via eminent domain is home to a field mouse that lives nowhere else. In the next possible corridor lives an owl that cannot be found in any other place. What then? Underground rail?

Rail might be "so socialist", but it's not "so simple".

[zoff]

127. Any transport project would encounter the same environmental challenges.

Take the national highway system, how many habitats did it decimate before the habitat laws were written? While nothing is ever simple, there are solutions if there is the will, and a bit of good planning. High-speed rail is a viable mass transport system whose time has come.

[cherokeeprogressive]

128. You didn't really answer the question though.

What to do about the field mouse and the owl? The national highway system isn't relevent to this issue because those days are gone. Yes, habitats were decimated during their construction, BECAUSE environmental laws were not on the books. Now they are.

[zoff]

157. Protect them.

But go on with the rail project.

[Pithlet]

129. Oh noes! A spotted owl!!!

Those stupid liberals.... Always fucking everything up.

[Throd]

131. That is the reality in California.

[cherokeeprogressive]

153. Maybe you never heard of the Snail Darter and the Tellico Dam. n/t

[Geek_Girl]

99. I hope so

nt

[Dorian Gray]

111. Yeah!

Though I'll believe it when they are up and running and not bankrupt before starting operations.

[Throd]

118. It will never happen in California.

Too much red tape and litigation.

[cherokeeprogressive]

121. How long before the environmental impact studies are commissioned? Finished?

What if, in the run between L.A. and San Fran, some field mouse is found to inhabit the land confiscated via eminent domain?

Some here are acting like tickets for high speed Amtrak are going on sale next year. I'm thinking on the order of a decade or longer. A lot longer.

[The Midway Rebel]

125. Amtrak. America's Way to Travel...

with weed!


I'm for it. Although, 8 billion seems a little light of an investment in our crumbling infrastructure. They are are spreading that money around in a lot of places to do much good in one.

[varelse]

132. California is a good test bed for these

there is a lot of long-distance commuting going on here. I'm sure that most of the people stuck in traffic for 1-3 hours each way would appreciate having an alternative.

[joe_sixpack]

133. Cheap gas

will always be hard for rail to compete against, except in crowded urban areas where driving and parking are too big of a hassle. It would be nice if rail is accepted in this country, like it is in Europe, but we invest so much into the almighty automobile.

[kjones]

196. I know....

Seriously, what's with cars? Trains are so much cooler...and efficient.

[fishbulb703]

134. High-speed rail is impractical for America.

Rail is way too expensive to be a viable option for a geography like the United States. There are too many places to go (on business, pleasure, or family) with distances that are too great to make inflexible and extremely costly (to implement) railroads. Distributed availability (i.e. roads and carbon-neutral cars) is much more viable. As would be, say, distributed solar across all homes to geothermal, centralizedsolar, or nuclear power plants. We need lots of small efficient tools; not huge, immovable, immutable works that are barely solvent at their peak, a peak that takes time to achieve and invariably drops off quickly.

[agentS]

137. Everybody in the rail debate overlooks the Peak Oil spector

Today, airlines are cheap. 10 to 20 years down the road, when oil hits a bajillion dollars a gallon again, they won't be so cheap.
That's where high speed rail comes in.

It should be noted that some of the earlier mentioned lines (the ones in Europe) they are almost tourist attractions.

Another poster brought up subways. I think those were included in the stimulus package. I know some city bus lines got stimulus money. Again, it's something that should be done. If we got money for high speed we got money for subways.

I'd wish they'd do a high-speed line from L.A. to LA. There is already an Amtrak line on that route.

I've used high speed rail in Japan, Korea, France, and China. Their systems are subsidized and regulated which makes them somewhat cash-hoggy. But they do keep cars off the road and planes grounded in medium-distance situations and are more affordable than plane travel (though not as fast).

If they can do it (and public options) why can't we do better?

[democratus]

146. For the poor?

What ever happened to mass transit?

how many poor people are going to ride this bullet train?

[Forkboy]

189. I'm as broke as broke can get and will probably never ride it. I still think it's a great idea.

Waaaaay overdue in this country.

[krispos42]

166. I was thinking about this

On trips of less than a thousand miles, it would work very well, I think, if we're talking the trains that go like 140 mph. That's about a 7 hour trip (not counting stops), whereas for a similar plane ride you have to add in an hour or two for boarding, security, check-in, etc. You could be looking at almost 5 hours for the same trip by airplane.

And the train would be far more reliable because there would be almost no delays due to weather.


Train travel would help free up congenstion at the airports for longer-distance flights, and would improve our domestic security situation in that there would be fewer planes that could be hijacked and less baggage and passengers to screen.





Incidently, train travel might be more popular if you could bring your car. Often when people are travelling, their destination is in the suburbs or rural areas. So even if you took the train (or the plane, for that matter) it still leaves the problem of getting from the terminal to the destination. You're stuck begging relatives/friends for a ride, or renting a car.

If we could drive our cars onto the train car (sideways, like piece of a small parking lot), then get out and go upstairs to a passenger lounge for the trip. No baggage handling, no parking issues. That would be very popular, I think. The trip would be faster than driving, more family-friendly than flying.

[NoFace]

170. I love it... now how can we be sure the money is going to be spent wisely? I.E. not looted.

I should change my name to 'cautiously optimistic'...

[nc4bo]

172. Don't think I'm not all for this but shouldn't we be rebuilding train bridges and stuff first? nt

[Raine]

173. Spend the money on Amtrak

it's already here and could use the money.

[Adenoid_Hynkel]

176. to celebrate, NBC is bringing back "Supertrain"

another genius programming move by the network of "The Jay Leno Show"

[NuttyFluffers]

179. i think it's wonderful and overdue. yet i'll believe it when i see it.

it's a brilliant system for short to middle distance trips, roughly anything around 600 miles or less. now that does cover many metro areas in an interconnected way. it also helps get people off of the freeway and revitalize urban areas. furthermore, if any real fuel issues occurred we could easily switch the fuel source for these rails because they are electric -- no specialized coal or diesel combustion engine to worry about. actually, from what i've seen around the world, high speed rail also creates a boon to smaller cities because of the new relative availability to tourists and the like.

trains like these should be the main arterial routes for mid-distance metros, with rapid transit as the circulatory system for large metros, and finally manageable local transit for smaller local areas. planes would naturally fill the long distance trips, because they are just far faster for such trips. all in all, this would be a wonderful first step.

[DisgustedInMN]

180. Reality Check:

Exactly where will these "bullet trains" be built?

I don't know how to break this to you gently...

There is no builder of these in America. None. Zero.

Which means, yet again, NO JOBS for Americans. But one more time JOBS FOR OTHER NATIONS paid for by American Taxpayers. Great. Peachy.

FUCKING WONDERFUL

[PacerLJ35]

184. I'd be interested to see if this could develop into a high-speed rail system like the EU

[Orsino]

190. Well, if we're abandoning manned space flight...

...I would hope that we could accomplish something with the money saved--but this doesn't smell like mass transit for the bulk of commuters.

[Gregorian]

192. Why?

Do we need it? Are people commuting from San Francisco to LA?

Would it be for transporting freight? If it's just for people, then it's probably not the best spent money.

Medical research. Battery research and production.

[Vidar]

193. About time.