The Grampy McBush Straight Talk Express RIPS through MTP like a mad bull that's lost its way! USA!

[Amerigo Vespucci]

:eyes:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35624901/ns/meet_the_press/ns/meet_the_press

MR. DAVID GREGORY: This Sunday: the healthcare divide.

(Videotape)

SEN. LAMAR ALEXANDER (R-TN): We ought to start over.
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(End videotape)

(Videotape)

SEN. MAX BAUCUS (D-MT): We are actually quite close.

(End videotape)

MR. GREGORY: Is there room for compromise or will the made-for-TV summit result in stalemate?

(Videotape)

PRES. BARACK OBAMA: We're not campaigning anymore. The election's over.

SEN. JOHN McCAIN (R-AZ): I, I, I--I'm reminded of that every day.

PRES. OBAMA: The--oh--well, I...

(End videotape)

MR. GREGORY: We'll ask our exclusive guests this morning, Arizona senator, Republican John McCain, and then White House healthcare czar, Nancy-Ann DeParle.

Plus, the politics of reform. As the president makes one final push, what does the public really want from Washington? And will success or failure on health care tip the scales in the 2010 midterm race? Insights and analysis from our roundtable, three political insiders, House Republican Whip Congressman Eric Cantor of Virginia; president and CEO of the National Urban League Marc Morial; and House Democratic Chief Deputy Whip Congresswoman Debbie Wasserman Schultz of Florida. Plus, two Washington journalists, the National Journal's Ron Brownstein and "BBC World News America"'s Katty Kay.

But first, Senator John McCain, welcome back to MEET THE PRESS.

SEN. McCAIN: Thanks for having me back, David.

MR. GREGORY: The healthcare summit on TV, much anticipated, it happened, many hours worth. What's changed?

SEN. McCAIN: Well, I think the American people are much better informed, and I think it was a good thing because I think there was an in-depth discussion with a lot of--about a lot of issues, and I'm glad that it happened. And it gave--I think a lot of Americans watched. I'm not sure not all seven hours, but I think that it was a good forum. I think that the American people learned something. And I hope that it could be the basis for us to have some serious negotiations. But we still have the fundamental problem: Do we go on the partisan plan that was ran through the Senate and the House or do we start over from the beginning? And we obviously--the--apparently the president may be intent, along with the speaker and the majority leader, to go the 51-vote route, which I'm sure we'll get into in our conversation.

MR. GREGORY: And, and that's called budget reconciliation where they could pass it with a simple majority. How would you react if, indeed, that's what will happen?

SEN. McCAIN: Throughout history, recent history anyway, the majority has always been frustrated by the 40-vote or the 60-vote threshold in the United States Senate. And when Republicans are in the majority, they're frustrated by the Democrats and vice versa. I did object strongly when, during the Bush administration, when we couldn't get any judges confirmed that there was the advocacy of the "nuclear option." I objected to that because I believed, as Robert Byrd does, that, that we should not be addressing these issues through 51 votes.

MR. GREGORY: But, Senator, you have voted for bills through reconciliation nine times since 1989.

SEN. McCAIN: Yes. Yes, I have voted for them, but I objected strenuously to us changing the rules so the Senate--so that 51 votes would prevail. And let me also say that Robert Byrd also in the '70s exempted Social Security. Social Security cannot be considered in reconciliation. We should do the same thing with Medicare. Lindsay Graham and I will be introducing legislation. Entitlements should not be part of a reconciliation process, i.e., 51 votes. It's too important.

MR. GREGORY: You...

SEN. McCAIN: One-sixth of our gross national product.

MR. GREGORY: You were critical of how this bill came to be.

SEN. McCAIN: Yes.

MR. GREGORY: Some of the deals that were made. You talked about that during your--the speech during this summit. And you had this notable exchange that we played a portion of during the open to the program. Let me show it to you.

SEN. McCAIN: Mm-hmm.

(Videotape)

PRES. OBAMA: Let me just make this point, John, because we're not campaigning anymore. The election's over.

SEN. McCAIN: I, I, I--I'm reminded of that every day.

PRES. OBAMA: The--oh--well, I...

(End videotape)

MR. GREGORY: What was your reaction to that moment?

SEN. McCAIN: Well, look, the president said that the, the campaign is over. What I was saying to the president is that you--the mistake that has been made is assuming that with 60 votes in the Senate and overwhelming majority in the House, you can move legislation through which has to be bipartisan in nature. It has to be. Every major reform has had bipartisan support. And so what they ended up with is, in order to buy votes, they did these unsavory deals. They are unsavory. To say that 800,000 people in Florida will be carved out from any reduction in a Medicare Advantage program--330,000 of my citizens in Arizona are Medicare Advantage enrollees. To, to say that you're going to put $100 million in for a hospital in Connecticut? Look, these are unsavory deals. They were done behind closed doors, and it has been--look, I'd have town hall meetings all over the place in my state of Arizona. People object to the process as much as they do to the product.

MR. GREGORY: But, you know, Senator, the president...

SEN. McCAIN: And policy cannot be made through an unsavory vote-buying process.

MR. GREGORY: But the president has said that there were negotiations with Republicans. For months ground was lost through a negotiation on the Finance Committee with Republicans that didn't come to pass. And you say this is not a bipartisan bill, and yet Ron Brownstein, who will be on the program, the columnist makes clear in a column on Friday, this has all the similarities of the Dole proposal in 1993 to Romney's proposal...

SEN. McCAIN: Mm-hmm.

MR. GREGORY: ...that was passed for healthcare reform in Massachusetts. How is this a partisan bill?

SEN. McCAIN: I have been part of bipartisan negotiations for many, many years, and I have a record of bipartisan results. This was not bipartisan. The way you have bipartisan negotiations, you sit down across the table, as we did with Ted Kennedy, as I've done with many other members, and you say, "OK, here's what I want, here's what you want. We'll adhere to your principles, but we'll make concessions." This bill was written by Democrats, for Democrats, and then they tried--and I understand power--what they tried to do was peel off a couple of Republicans, as he did with the stimulus bill, and call it bipartisan. It's not bipartisan. I know bipartisanship, and with all due respect to any of our other observer, let's start over, then. It's not too late.

MR. GREGORY: Is there one thing...

SEN. McCAIN: It's not too late. Why don't we sit down together and say, "OK, let's start with medical malpractice reform"? We agree, I think, fundamentally on that. Why don't we address going across state lines? Why don't we go across many of the positive proposals that we Republicans have had, too, and maybe we can find common ground?

MR. GREGORY: Final point on health care.

SEN. McCAIN: Sure

MR. GREGORY: The politics of this is something that will be much discussed in this election year.

SEN. McCAIN: Yes.

MR. GREGORY: Whether success or failure, hurts or helps, Democrats and Republicans for the midterm race. Well, we've been here before, back in 1994 when President Clinton tried this. And you've been here before talking about this very issue. Back in 1994, Tim Russert asked you about the political implications. I want to play that for you.

MR. TIM RUSSERT: Politically, is it better for the Republicans in the congressional elections to have healthcare reform bill or not to have that bill?

SEN. McCAIN: If the Republicans can convince the American people they are doing it to prevent something like the catastrophic health insurance bill of the late '80s, then yes. But if we are viewed, as the Democrats will attempt to portray us, as just obstructing people from getting the health which they need, then we do so at great risk.
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(End videotape)

MR. GREGORY: So same question now.

SEN. McCAIN: I was certainly better-looking in those days. Let...

MR. GREGORY: Same question now: Better for Republicans to have a bill or have no bill?

SEN. McCAIN: I don't know, but I know what's happened with American public opinion, and that is also--seems to be missing in the, the calculations of the president and the Democrats. Overwhelmingly, the American people, depending on which poll you look at, but overwhelmingly, American people are saying stop and start over. We realize you can't do nothing. That, that's just a straw man. We know that Medicare's going broke in seven years, but we need to start over. That's what the American people want us to do. And, again, I get back--they don't like these cynical deals. They are cynical about us. They don't trust us. When you have these deals, these unsavory deals. Look to the pharmaceutical companies. David, how can we say to the pharmaceutical companies, "We'll let you have breaks such as not competing for Medicare pay--enrollees, such as banning the import--reimportation of drugs from Canada in return for which you'll run $100 million or such touting the administration's healthcare reform plan." That's not right. Americans see through it.

MR. GREGORY: More on the politics of 2010.

SEN. McCAIN: All right.

MR. GREGORY: You are in a, a primary battle for re-election against former Republican Congress J.D. Hayworth of Arizona. And on the issue of health care, this is what he says on his Web site, on the issues, "Nowhere is the Obama administration's socialist agenda more evident than in their attempts to grab control over 17 percent of our nation's economy." Socialist agenda, do you think that goes too far?

SEN. McCAIN: Look, you'll have to have Mr. Hayworth on to explain the things he says.

MR. GREGORY: All right.

SEN. McCAIN: I'm, I'm not ready to do that.

MR. GREGORY: Do you think that goes too far?

SEN. McCAIN: Oh, well...

MR. GREGORY: That this is a socialist agenda from the president?

SEN. McCAIN: Look, look, there is no doubt in my mind America's a right-of-center nation and this administration is governing from the left. That's why the president's approval rating's continued to, to decline. And I know you want to get off health care, and I will. But I want to say again--and Eric Cantor who's coming on later will affirm this--we want to sit down and have negotiations, and we have a positive agenda, and we would love to see that agenda...

MR. GREGORY: But--OK, but...

SEN. McCAIN: Yes.

MR. GREGORY: ...my question is do you think that kind of--because you've heard that description before, not just from J.D. Hayworth but others. Does it go too far to say the president's agenda is a socialist agenda?

SEN. McCAIN: I, I think I gave my description. I think they're governing from the left on a broad variety of issues, but I'll let others speak for themselves. I, I have enough time taking care of my own misstatements.

MR. GREGORY: Well, let's talk about, you--you've been criticized by some who say because you're in a primary battle that you've changed a little bit, that you've taken more conservative positions. And they go through some particular issues. Let me bring up a couple. One has to do with the...

SEN. McCAIN: Good.

MR. GREGORY: ...issue of "don't ask, don't tell," the prohibition against gays to serve in the military. Back in 2006...

SEN. McCAIN: Mm-hmm.

MR. GREGORY: ...on MSNBC, this is what you said about your view. "The day that the leadership of the military comes to me and says Senator, we ought to change the policy, then I think we ought to consider seriously changing it because those leaders in the military are the ones we give the responsibility to." Chairman of the Joint Chiefs Mike Mullen testified earlier this month, this is what he said:

(Videotape, February 2, 2010)

ADM. MIKE MULLEN: It is my personal belief that allowing gays and lesbians to serve openly would be the right thing to do.

(End videotape)

MR. GREGORY: And the head of CENTCOM, General David Petraeus, who was on MEET THE PRESS just this past Sunday, said this.

(Videotape, last Sunday)

MR. GREGORY: Do you think soldiers on the ground in the field care one way or the other if their comrade in arms are gay or lesbian?

GEN. DAVID PETRAEUS: I'm not sure that they do.

(End videotape)

MR. GREGORY: Why doesn't that meet your standard of 2006 for you to say, "OK, it's time to change views"?

SEN. McCAIN: Because, as I said back then, that we need to have a careful examination, and Admiral Mullen was, as quote, "speaking personally." Just this week, commandant of the Marine Corps said that he did not want "don't ask, don't tell" repealed. There are many in the military who do not want to. We are going to go through, hopefully, a yearlong study that will hopefully also have the feelings of the men and women who are serving. But, David, what--also the chief of staff of the Air Force and the chief of staff of the Army pointed out we're in two wars. We have the highest trained, most professional, best military in history. We have the highest retention, highest recruitment in history. And they're all saying, "Wait a minute. Before we change this, let's make sure we go through a careful examination, ranging from what you heard Admiral Mullen say, his "personal opinion," to what the commandant of the Marine Corps said, he doesn't want it changed. So it's clear that we need to do be very careful as to how we move forward on whether we change this policy or not.

MR. GREGORY: But if the result of that study is that we should move beyond it...

SEN. McCAIN: I believe that it's working.

MR. GREGORY: ...you would, you would side with that?

SEN. McCAIN: If the result of that study is, is one that I can trust and believe in and is supported by our military leaders, obviously, I would have that--give that the most serious consideration.

MR. GREGORY: One question about the bailout, the TARP.

SEN. McCAIN: Oh, yeah.

MR. GREGORY: You voted for it, but you've said that you were misled by former Treasury Secretary Paulson. How so?

SEN. McCAIN: We were all misled. We were all misled. I mean, he said that they were going after the toxic assets. The toxic asset--his word--was the housing market. He testified to that. I mean, we were all misled. So what did he do then? They started pumping money into the financial institutions. Now the financial institutions are fine. Wall Street's doing great. Main Street is in deep trouble. In my home state of Arizona, 48 percent of the homes are under water. In other words, they're worth less than the mortgage payments people are making. The...

MR. GREGORY: But he says without TARP, you'd have 25 percent unemployment. You would have had that.

SEN. McCAIN: He can--he said that, that they would be going after the toxic assets, which were the housing market. And that's what his testimony was, that's what he pledged to do, and--to the American people and to the Congress. And they turned around--I mean, it's a matter of record, it's been reported in all the media. They turned around and switched from trying to address the housing market to bailing out the financial institutions on Wall Street. Who ever thought that we would, when we passed that, we would own General Motors and Chrysler, GMAC? I mean, it's, it's, it's beyond what anyone had anticipated.

MR. GREGORY: Final moment on foreign policy...

SEN. McCAIN: Yeah.

MR. GREGORY: ...and I'll conflate Iraq and Afghanistan in one question. Here's the cover of Newsweek magazine this week. "Victory At Last: The Emergence of a Democratic Iraq." And as you follow the offensive that's taking place in southern Afghanistan to make strides toward shoring up the government in Afghanistan, do you think success along the lines of Iraq, if you believe it's a success...

SEN. McCAIN: Mm-hmm.

MR. GREGORY: ...is possible in Afghanistan?

SEN. McCAIN: Oh, of course. In fact, the Afghans do not want the Taliban back. When the surge started in Iraq, things were in total chaos. It--I think we have significant advantages in Afghanistan. But, look, Iraq is not over. I have--I appreciate that cover, but it's two steps forward and one step back. These elections coming up are very important. In Afghanistan, it's two steps forward and one step back. It's a long, hard process and...

MR. GREGORY: Can it be achieved in that 18-month time frame that the administration has put forward in Afghanistan.

SEN. McCAIN: Well, the thing that worries me the most is the president's statement about leaving in the middle of 2011. I would appreciate it if the president told these, all the way down to Afghan tribal leaders who have questioned me about it, to say we're going to do what's necessary to succeed, period. I would love to see that. That's of great concern. They have to stay in the neighborhood. And if we leave, they have to adjust. But I am--I have great confidence in our leadership and the men and the women who are serving. I have never been more proud.

MR. GREGORY: We will leave it there. Senator McCain, thank you, as always.

SEN. McCAIN: Thank you for having me on, David.

MR. GREGORY: Appreciate it.

Up next, the president's blueprint for healthcare reform. What will we see in a final bill and how does the plan get there? We'll speak with his healthcare czar, Nancy-Ann DeParle. Plus, our roundtable weighs in on the politics of reform and the 2010 landscape, only here on MEET THE PRESS.

[Enrique]

1. Gregory lets McCain conflate reconciliation to the nuclear option

Rachel Maddow will scream when she sees this. Didn't Gregory see her excellent piece on this GOP trick, which they're doing over and over again?

[spanone]

2. "How would you react if, indeed, that's what will happen?"

hey david, who gives a shit how john mccain reacts?'

is this important in any way?

'made-for-tv summit' your bias is showing mr gregory

[Amerigo Vespucci]

3. I permanently wrote Gregory off the minute he did the "M.C. Karl Rove Dance."

The guy turned...he actually TURNED. You can see a progression in his reporting, and all of a sudden, he became the M.C. Karl Rove Dance Partner, and has remained so ever since.

:patriot: