The "compton cookout" only further solidifies my belief many people do NOT belong in college

[TwixVoy]

The myth that "everyone" should go to college is one of the biggest scams of the past 30 years.

It allows millions of immature ass clowns like these "compton cookout" fools to pollute the higher education system. Make no mistake - this and worse goes on every day at schools all across the country. This one just happened to get media attention.

We are sending 18 year olds on a 4 year all expenses paid vacation. That's literally what it has become. Many schools even offer such luxury items as indoor beaches, indoor rock climbing, room service, etc to satisfy this demographic thus raising costs for everyone else.

Of course these suckers who have no business at a university are are being taken by the banks.... and that's why I call it a scam. Many of these morons will graduate 50-100K+ in student loan debt. Debt that can NEVER be bankrupted. The most toxic debt that exists which even allows your social security to be taken away as payment. Debt that can skyrocket rapidly with fees and default rates should they fall behind in payments.

Once these people "graduate" (after partying and having mom and dad hound professors for 4 years for not passing their little darlings) employers quickly discover these "college grads" bring nothing to the table, and many are lucky to land jobs paying 25K annually. Thus they will be in debt for decades.

A lot of them end up in retail management. I used to work with a lot of right wing 22 year old morons when I worked at Target who went straight to entry level retail management after graduating. They had sorority/fraternity garbage plastered to the wall in their closet sized offices in the back of the store. Some of them frequently complained to me that they couldn't party as much now that they were working 40 hours a week. They were some of the most inept and incompetent people I had ever worked with. Many times having difficulty taking care of tasks high school drop outs easily handled. They also regularly depended on other managers such as my self to handle most of the work. I even had one who I had to help read simple spreadsheets on a weekly basis for over 2 years. (and she had a bachelors degree....)

I really really really believe that MUCH stricter entry requirements should exist at colleges. I also think it may be worth considering a requirement that the student has demonstrated at least some level of maturity prior to being admitted.... such as being able to hold down a job for a year or two.

This "everyone gets in" BS leads to situations like this, and GREATLY disrupts the ability of the students who are actually there to learn to do so successfully. It saddens me to learn that only ONE of these people has been suspended so far. (only because she was stupid enough to break an actual law with her noose) None of these people should have even been admitted in the first place, and should have been screened out as part of the application process. Perhaps after spending a few years at McDonalds (where they insist those "colored" people belong) they might mature enough to belong at a university and appreciate it a little more.

[liberal N proud]

1. No details on what happened at the compton cookout that has you all upset?

Sounds like a rant against Fraternities and Sororities but not sure what the trigger was here.

We had a great time in college partied hard and passed with good graded while in a Fraternity. I am still connected to most of those I went to school with. I aways say I knew all the characters in Animal House. But in reality, the Fraternity saved me from dropping out.

I am in management but not in retail. So much for that stereotype.

It is a BS they get if they finish.LOL

Give us some information that triggered your rant.

[TwixVoy]

4. Another white fraternity college grad mystified as to why

Another white fraternity college grad mystified as to why those of us who are not as white as your self may be upset about this kind of crap going on at universities.

What a surprise.

[realisticphish]

6. to me

sounds like someone asking for a link

[liberal N proud]

28. Thank you

[redqueen]

77. "compton cookout"? seemed ridiculously obvious to me what it was. (nt)

[realisticphish]

81. perhaps, yes

I gathered what was implied; but I hadn't heard about it either, as I don't read the main boards very often.

[Raineyb]

83. To me it sounds like someone who has NOT been paying attention as there have been numerous OPs about

this group of nitwits and their "Compton cookout". Typing the phrase in search could have just as easily gotten the job done without helping to prove the OP's point. Or is the search function too difficult to manage?

[Nikki Stone1]

9. Have you been under a ROCK? See this thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=4286603&mesg_id=4286603

All the back story here.

[liberal N proud]

29. See, now a simple link to the story clears things up

It is despicable that any one fraternal or otherwise would do such acts. It is inexcusable.

[provis99]

2. we need a two-track system like they employ in Britain

they test all 14 year olds comprehensively, and look at their past behavior and future promise, and track them either into pre-university upper level schools, or ship them off to trade schools to learn a job. Frankly, all of us have sat in high school with tons of morons complaining, why do they have to be in school. I agree with the morons; keep them out of high school, and put them into vocational training, so they can enter the job field and earn money, which suits their aptitude and desires more.

This "Everybody has to go to college" lie that Clinton promulgated is hurting us, rather than helping us.

[Donnachaidh]

7. however -- the classical *trade schools* in this country are sort of worthless now

As most of the manufacturing jobs the graduates would work at have been shipped to other countries!

Thanks Bill Clinton! Nafta - the gift that keeps on giving....

[patrice]

22. Agreed! Stop taking attendance. Give the schools enough money to do what needs to be

done and teach those who show up. Don't concern yourself with the others, but keep the schools open to them if/when they return.

Plenty of craft and trade schools in addition to academic schools.

Everything open from 8a to 8p, rough groupings by age, but no age limits on who can take classes.

[ThomWV]

49. sounds good to me - I'll be the decider - now, where will I send your kid?

Don't worry, I'll take into consideration what I consider to be his "future promise" as I see it.

[MattBaggins]

53. Can I as politely as possible give a good fearty FU to a two track system.

[Caliman73]

82. We had that in California for some time...

Seems that all the Black and Brown kids would always be tracked for the trade programs regardless of actual participation. Plus, as another poster said, trade education would be great if there were trades to get into after completion.

At the risk of broad brushing this, fraternities and those not in fraternities have been doing really stupid and offensive things since way before Clinton's "everyone to college" campaign. It is more a result of brains not being fully developed, the use of substances, and a mob mentality that causes these problems. They should be dealt with quickly and harshly, but an entire system should not be changed just because some idiots act like idiots.

[Skittles]

3. most of the college grads I have worked with have been worthless

[MUAD_DIB]

13. What line of work are you in?

An anecdote. An age and a half ago, when I was in high school, students would be called down individually to their councilor's office to pick up their SATs. When I picked up mine I opened it up on the way back to class and nearly had a heart attack. 290 math. 280 verbal. I remember it to this day. How the fuck could I have fucked up so badly??!!

I saw my future stretching away at dead end jobs for the rest of my life: the flunkie of the family. Then I realized that they had given me the wrong SAT. It had another student's name on it...a coveted athlete..a football player...pride of the school and all that...most certainly to be allowed to walk through all of his HS classes without bother.

I realized that if he was able to get into a college it would be for football and not for anything cerebral.

So I, who had to bust my ass double-hard to get the grades I needed, would probably see this guy waltzing through college just like he waltzed through HS.

Worthless...

[ProgressiveProfessor]

17. Many are in most part to less than useful/functional degrees

[Cirque du So-What]

5. You've struck a nerve with the unRec brigade

After I recced your post, it's still 'underwater.'

[Donnachaidh]

8. must be all those frat boys that are pissed off

:rofl:

[msongs]

10. many high schools have killed off their trades programs - for many reasons like

some were used for racist/ethnic/socio-economic status tracking, some were obsolete, some were deemed useless by the college at any cost administrators.

Msongs

[ProgressiveProfessor]

18. I don't see it as racial or class thing. These days its all about funding.

There was a good VoTech and Tech Ed program in MD while we were there. In California, nada.

[Dappleganger]

79. Our high school used to have shop class, cosmetology

groundskeeping (we have hundreds of golf courses around), childcare, etc.

All of that is gone now, the only thing they have is business and college pre-requisites. It's a real shame.

[Lyric]

11. Your standards and other peoples' standards might not be the same thing.

So who gets to decide what the "line in the sand" is? Do you make accommodations for low-income students who didn't have the same kind of access to well-funded schools, technology, support resources, and educated parents that the better-off kids did, and whose grades suffered accordingly? What kind of work "counts" for your 1-2 year job requirement--and what kind of exceptions will there be for students who live in economically depressed communities where jobs are incredibly scarce? If you have a student who has a 4.0 GPA from a rural high school with an easy curriculum, how do you weigh that (for admission purposes) compared to a student who has a 3.0 from a challenging, difficult high school? What about extra-curricular activities--and what about students whose parents couldn't *afford* extra-curricular activities? What about students who drop out of high school, get a GED, and then apply to college? Are they counted equally with students who graduated from a traditional high school path? What about home-schooled students? Do the kids who had a Jesusified education count the same as a the kids who were too gifted for high school and whose parents chose to educate them more thoroughly at home? Other than hiring an enormous and completely subjective panel of people to pore over student applications and decide each admission on a case-by-case basis (both an expensive endeavor and a lawsuit magnet), how do you propose choosing who gets in and who doesn't? How can you be SURE that you're not overlooking a terrific prospective student who had a series of life crises and whose grades suffered terribly, but who would do wonderfully in college?

I think the system we have right now works just fine, insofar as anyone who meets a basic set of standard admissions criteria can get in. I would make some changes, of course--mostly to increase access to higher education for the low-income students who need it most--but your proposal that would limit access to higher education to a set of "deserving" students (whose deservingness would be determined by...you?) seems like either a very effective satire or a very poor genuine argument.

I do agree that too many people are going to college, but I disagree about WHY, and also about what we should do about it. In my view, the "why" has more to do with a lack of available blue-collar jobs that can support a middle-class lifestyle. I think that if we still had decent, working-class jobs available for many of these kids to aspire to, we wouldn't have this problem. Perhaps that is where we should be focusing attention--on blue-collar, middle-class job creation--rather than wasting energy on building walls between "undeserving" students and college. We stifle educational opportunities at our own peril. We cannot dictate from on high that SOME students get to have comfortable, middle-class lives, while others are officially doomed to minimum-wage hell forever. That's incredibly wrong.

[TwixVoy]

15. Are you for real?

How does ANY organization decide who it will accept? How does an employer? How does the military? How does DU decide who gets to be a member? You make it sound like it is some impossible task.

It should be up to each college. Not me. What kind of lame BS argument is that?

The colleges should beef up their standards. Professors need to expect higher standards, and then the university needs to screen applicants based on rather or not they have demonstrated whatever criteria the school feels is necessary to be successful, contribute to the academic environment, and generally bring something to the table.

If they haven't done that then they need to join the workforce for a few years. DO something to contribute to society. Then make an application again. Maybe these racist fu**s would have benefited from working at a soup kitchen for a year prior to attending college.

If these candy asses that want school to be about hanging nooses at the university can't make the cut to get in - too damn bad. They don't belong there. They bring nothing to the table for the university or other students. They just want to screw around for 4 years (while disrupting the school and other students learning) and then get a paper telling employers they are supposedly fit for certain jobs.

This also creates a great disservice for employers and those in the workforce. What if one of these racists bastards now goes on to get a degree in human resources and starts as a human resources manager at a major corporation? I can bet you money a LOT of minority applicants which otherwise would be qualified will be rejected because they happen to be non-white. (of course they will never be told that)

These activities should be grounds for expulsion, yet most of them will likely be given degrees after a few more years of partying at others expense.

[liberal_at_heart]

12. The students invloved in this should be expelled and perhaps arrested for a hate crime as well

[Nikki Stone1]

14. Yes: and I rec'd you Twix Voy

:D

[anonymous171]

16. I came to the same conclusion after watching Transformers 2.

In the movie, the main character decides to go to college for the "college experience." I don't even think they mention his major or anything. It's all about the parties and the campus life. Meanwhile I have a 3.7 GPA and I am having trouble getting in anywhere (transfer.)

[ProgressiveProfessor]

19. I agree, but it has nothing to do with this incident

College is the wrong path for many. Also the salaries are in many fields just not there.

[Warpy]

20. The operative words are "entry level management"

which means they'll escape the fate of kids who started work right out of high school on the floor, all the shit they can eat. While good retail people might be able to move into store management, they'll never get to corporate, a big mistake on the part of the corporation, IMO. In addition, jobs I held right out of high school in the mid 60s now require a baccalaureate degree, companies thinking that anyone who managed to stick to it for four (or more) years and get a degree will probably be ahead of the ones who went right out and started working.

A college education still opens a lot of doors, but only talent and work will allow anyone who gets through them to stay there. Feckless 22 year olds will likely end up glued to that bottom rung, but, as you've seen yourself, that rung is above the floor.

I tell kids with anything at all on the ball mentally plus a decent work ethic to skip the liberal arts degree and the eventual middle management job and try for a skilled trade, instead. Once they get into a skilled trade, a smart kid can take night business courses at any community college with a view toward opening his/her own shop, and that's where money is to be made.

Even things like hairdressing can pay better than lower or middle management if the talented kid gets into a good job and starts making decent tips from happy customers.

My grandfather was a professor of English, mathematics and music (at various times) a century ago. He once told my parents that he was afraid most of his students graduated with a degree of A.S.S., so the problems you've identified are nothing new.

People who go into trades and still thirst for knowledge can take advantage of adult education, online and off. Education doesn't stop for those of us with curiosity. It does stop for the dunderheads with the 4 year degrees who never open anything heavier than People Magazine once they're out.

The dunderheads in college have always been with us and will always be with us as long as colleges admit them on the basis of ability to pay rather than academic interest and aptitude. However, it's not the only way a kid can go on to have a fulfilling life and a good income and I do suggest parents start helping them explore the alternatives.

[Fumesucker]

59. My brother and I are both skilled tradesmen.

We both know a great many skilled tradespeople who are in a real economic jam right now, in fact I can't think of anyone I know that's doing really well.

Once you get beyond a certain age and physical capacity skilled trades are a major dead end.

Skilled trades wear out your body and that's assuming you don't just get outright injured or incapacitated on the job from an accident.

My income now is basically zero, I live with my daughter and son in law.. My brother has had his own company for over thirty years and his income is now less than a third of what it was ten years ago and he is desperately looking for something, anything to make a buck.

[Warpy]

60. That's why I restrict the advice to people with enough on the ball

to go through those business classes and open their own shops by their late 40s when the physical toll is starting to appear.

I hear you about the stress on your body, 25 years as an RN wrecked mine.

However, skilled tradesmen aren't the only ones out of work and searching for every small repair job they can get right now. A lot of white collar people have also been shoved out onto the street and there is even less for them as office jobs keep getting sent offshore.

The country sucks for everybody who depends on a paycheck, and the older they are, the harder it sucks.

[Fumesucker]

61. There's a huge amount you need to know that business classes aren't going to teach you..

For one thing, finding good employees is about as hard as finding a good employer and in the trades a bad employee can lose you your business virtually overnight.

I had my own business for a long time, moving up the ladder of business is really more about politics and connections than it is about how good a job you do. A lot of people get into the trades because they aren't naturals at politics, that really screws them when it comes time to expand and move on up the business ladder.

The the skill and aptitude set for managing a business is entirely different than doing the work yourself.

Not to mention that the skill and aptitude set for starting a business is considerably different than running an existing business.

[Quantess]

21. I took college seriously and I studied, a lot.

What a concept!

[smoogatz]

23. Don't worry.

Most states are rapidly de-funding public higher ed, and the distinction between public and private universities is eroding faster than a Chi Omega can suck off the president of the Campus Republicans. In another generation (or less), the only people going to college in this country will be those whose parents are wealthy enough to afford the colossal tuition bills universities will be forced to send out. Right now, we take everybody because, frankly, we need the tuition money. But in the near future, colleges and universities will be exclusive, if not selective.

[tammywammy]

25. Which is what I hope doesn't happen

University level education shouldn't be only available to those with the big bucks. While I do think there needs to be more vocational training available, and college isn't right for everyone. But everyone should be able to afford and attend college if they want to.

I'm not sure what the OP is specifically wanting. I'm sure these students didn't say "I'm a racist fucker" in their admission essays. They should be expelled from school.

[smoogatz]

37. It's happening.

In the generation-or-so since the advent of Reaganism, a lot of states (see Gullyfawnya, Illinois, Wisconsin, et al) have pretty much abandoned the quaint notion of higher ed as a public good, and have determined that "public" universities should adopt the essentially corporate business models of private schools. Here in Wisconsin, the UW system got 40% of its funding from the state as recently as 1979; that number is hovering under 20% and dwindling fast. It's so bad here that UW-Madison appointed a high-powered committee to study the possibility of seceeding from the system a few years ago--they're fed up by the idea that the state gives them something like 17% of their budget these days, but wants to exert 100% control. If you contrast the current situation with the era just following WWII, that saw a rapid expansion of the UW system into a model of public service with which other states tried to compete, it's almost unrecognizable. What made the difference? Reaganism--the notion that it's all about you, and the worst thing you can do as a private citizen is to foot the bill for the public good. People vote these Republican fucks into office based on their low tax platforms and then complain because their kids are graduating from college with these huge debt-loads, and somehow the lightbulb never flickers on for them. Which I think means that Democrats have done a supremely shitty job of framing the message over the years.

[tammywammy]

75. Agreed about the democrats and the framing

I just hope that (somehow) it reverses course.

[Odin2005]

24. This is how the corporate elites keep us in bondage.

Keep us broke and in debt.

[Tabasco_Dave]

26. Vocational Training is not taken seriously in this country

When i attended community college as a regular student, i was considered a member of the campus community. I decided to switch to a culinary arts major and i noticed that we and the other vocational students where treated differently. We where not notified of any student union activities or parties, the students and academic professors treated us as workers instead of students when we served food on the line. The welding and mechanic majors where treated pretty much the same.

[Dappleganger]

76. In agreement.

Our daughter will begin cosmetology school in the fall and her teachers have been deriding her ever since she told them. The guidance counselor wouldn't even help her find a good program, she told us that we could do that on our own.

Working with your hands is an honorable profession and for now many of those jobs cannot be sent overseas, so I see nothing wrong with encouraging our kids to do something that they love that doesn't involve traditional college. My daughter is very artistic but has wanted to do hair ever since she was little--her art just makes her more creative.

[Juche]

27. Yes, and all of us are above those people

Nobody is saying everyone should go to college. That is why only about 25% of people have a 4 year degree. Something like another 25% have some tertiary education (certificate, associates degree, etc) but no 4 year degree. So this idea that 'everyone' should go to college isn't true and never has been.

What are people supposed to do? Cut that down to 15% from 25%? Why would that be good for anyone? Back in the 1930s only about 25% of people had high school diplomas. Back then a HS diploma meant something. Now everyone has them. Should we go back to a time when most people dropped out of junior high and high school because it made a HS diploma seem more prestigious? No.

Also, a lot of what you get out of college has nothing to do with your grades. I would hate to have an East Asian education system. One based on rote memorization, endless testing and intense competition.

Most people who graduate college are 20k in debt, not 50-100k. And I don't know of any parents hounding the professors to pass their kids.

Suffice it to say, I disagree on various levels. There is nothing wrong with trade school or associate degrees. However the concept that 'everyone' should go to college isn't true and never has been. That is just a statement born out of superciliousness.

Some of the benefits of college have nothing to do with the grades. The chance to socialize and meet a wide variety of people, the chance to participate in a culture that is heavily skewed towards intellectualism, introspection and creativity, the chance to be in the middle ground between a child and adult and make the transition, etc.

College was nice. However I'd like to see different kinds of tertiary education. If you want to be an engineer who goes to MIT, great. However for those who want to get a liberal arts education because maybe 10 years down the road those critical thinking skills will come in handy, that is great too.

Also, Bob Altemeyer found that 4 years of college substantially reduced people's scores on tests for authoritarianism. Being exposed to different people and cultures made people less intolerant. I believe Altemeyer found a 10-20% drop in authoritarianism scores. Exposing people to a liberal arts education, diversity, critical thinking, etc. generally makes them less dogmatic and intolerant.

All in all, creativity, learning, socialization and diversity are generally good. And that is what college offers. And any attempt to eliminate those things and turn US college into Asian cram schools (which is what would likely happen if you tried to impose far higher and exclusive academic standards) would be a huge mistake.

http://www.collegeboard.com/press/releases/185478.html

But the US has the world's best tertiary education system anyway. And that isn't US exceptionalism either. Our public and private schools are the best in the world. Berkeley, CalTech, MIT, Princeton, Yale, Harvard, etc.

So my view is we should keep college the way it is. The more people that can be exposed to a liberal arts education, scientific education, socialization, etc. the better off we are going to be. Trying to turn US colleges into Asian cram schools (with exclusionary testing, dramatically higher academic standards, etc) would be a step backwards. I'm fine with MIT being like that, but the in state public college should not.

Either way, there need to be more opportunities for everyone to be exposed to science, culture, individuals with different personalities, responsibility, important skills, etc. Doesn't matter if it is in college or out of college, but right now college is one of the best avenues for gaining those abilities.

I think a big appeal of making college more exclusionary is most of the people who support that sincerely think they'd still be smart and hard working enough to make the cut. But what if the standards were high enough to exclude you too?

[surrealAmerican]

30. Maturity and scholastic ability are two different things.

Yes, there are people in college who don't belong there for lack of aptitude, but I have no idea whether these bigots are in that category. What is obvious is their lack of maturity, and sensitivity.

[SidDithers]

39. They'd be immature bigots whether they were in College...

or trade school, or working on the floor of Target. It's only at College, where there's the possibility for a higher concentration of immature bigots, who will feed off of each other, that results in incidents like this.

Sid

[lunatica]

31. Once again someone wants to rewrite the rules so the lowest common

denominator makes up the rules.

[Obamanaut]

32. Agree and 'rec'

[HughBeaumont]

33. Eliminating that "everyone gets in BS" would have cancelled me out.

Believe it or not, not everyone with a ridiculoulsy low grade point average is "stupid" or "lazy". Try "bullied relentlesly", "had bad teachers who were way past their expiration date", "didn't know he had ADHD until he was 30 because there was no name for it back then" or "just plain disillusioned with the routine and the uselessness of it all".

I studied my ass off and did 3 hours of homework a night and received nothing but average to below average grades for my efforts. My mailbox was loaded every mid-term with "Poor Work Reports". From First Grade going forward, minimum 1, usually 3 to 4 teachers made my school experience miserable. You cannot learn in an environment where adults do nothing but blame you for your failings while turning a blind eye to the bullying.

If it wasn't for SAT and ACT scores, I would have no doubt been closed out of college and, subsequently, any chance of advancement in life.

[dionysus]

42. FWIW, the OP has a pretty big beef with college and ppl who have graduated from it.

[HughBeaumont]

44. Yes. Also, it seems, with humanity in general.

If I had a nickel for every doom-mongering "There is No Hope"-type post from this one, I'd have gas money for a month.

[dionysus]

45. did you miss the thread where she was pimping the book "college is for suckers" ?

that was a good one...

[HughBeaumont]

50. Oh, I saw that one.

:)

[DefenseLawyer]

34. Good grief

College is a place to have stupid ideas and make stupid mistakes. Some people actually learn from them. You need to get over yourself.

[Jennicut]

35. I graduated college in 1999 from a state university in CT. The kids there were hardworking

and most worked a job to pay for their education. Depends on what college you go to. The school had tons of minorities and I remember there was a lot of mingling between different races, not many problems. Of course, it was in New Britain. The area around it was a city like atmosphere anyway. Not too many rich kids at Central CT State U.

[Obamanaut]

52. In the thread where the school is gonna report underage drinking

to the parents, one poster insists the students are adults.

In 1999 the state university in CT had hardworking kids.

Who really goes to upper level schools - kids or adults?

[Jennicut]

56. Well, I am 34 now. LOL. That seems like a kid to me but we were adults

at 18 and wanted to be treated like an adult.

[SidDithers]

36. How can it be an "all expenses paid vacation"...

if the students graduate with "50-100K+ in student loan debt"?

:shrug:

Sid

[BakedAtAMileHigh]

38. I taught undergrads for many years

and I agree with you completely. The meme that "everyone needs/deserves a college education" has created a market-based system where private universities enroll students who have absolutely no chance of passing and no business at all in "higher" education. Of course, most private colleges are ridiculously expensive; this insures an unhealthy mix of the spoiled, rich and arrogant and the poor, under-prepared and desperate. The small percentage of dedicated, capable students (perhaps 7-10%?) seems to dwindle every year. In the meantime poor students go into crushing debt to experience a year or less of humiliation and struggle in a system that will ignore them once it is assured it has received payment.

What is even worse is that admission standards have eroded under pressure from "market forces" and it is now entirely possible for large numbers of people to receive a "college degree" without any kind of real education. The grade curve has been adjusted until a "B+" is an average grade! Hell, the university where I taught did not even use "minus" scores! It was "D/D+,C/C+", etc, etc.

The collapse of Empire is a terrible thing to witness, no?

[MineralMan]

40. This somewhat overstates the problem, I think.

For every beer-swilling, townie boinking, frat boy, there are two students who are at college to learn. Nobody notices them. They're up in the front rows in class, and in the library studying while the frat boys are partying down. They populate the dorms, not the bars and clubs. They use their computers to write their papers, not to play the latest game.

Nobody notices them. They study. They learn. They go out into the workplace and get good jobs and advance over the years. Still, nobody notices them.

That's how they like it.

[Taitertots]

63. True that!

Go by the computer labs and they are filled with students learning. Go by the library and it is filled with students grouped up studying.

People do notice them when they want a lawyer, doctor, teacher, or an engineer. Basically any time they want something done which is too advanced for an idiot to do it.

[dionysus]

41. indoor beaches and room service? where the hell were these at my college?

:rofl:

[slackmaster]

47. UCSD has an indoor swimming pool, but no indoor beaches or room service in the dorms

You have to walk about a mile to get to the beach.

[slackmaster]

48. Double-tap

:hi:

[dionysus]

55. yep

:hi:

[Coventina]

43. My answer: Community College

I do believe that every US citizen should be guaranteed 2 years at a community college, unless they have a mental or health disability that would preclude them for whatever reason.

I'm not saying that the 4 year schools should go away or that many students shouldn't go straight from HS to University, but I think that a more robust community college system would be the answer to many issues raised in this thread.

I am fortunate enough to live in one of the best community college districts in the US, and to list its benefits would take longer than I have time for right now.

The academic standards are top notch. As a student, I was given better instruction there than I was at the university. As a teacher there now, I can tell you that my standards are rigorous, and my students routinely tell me how I have enriched and bettered their lives.

Plus, we do teach the trades as well. Here's an incomplete list of some of our programs:

HVAC
EMT
Nursing
Printing
Cosmetology
Plumbing
Graphic design
Fire Science
Real Estate
Personal Training
Web Design
Automotive

There are many, many more.

There really is something for everyone at the community college.

[rox63]

51. I agree that Community Colleges really work well for a lot of students

Because you can either go a vocational route or a transfer route. I got my first Associates Degree from a CC back in the mid-80's, and worked for over 20 years in IT based on that education. I'm doing a mid-life career change to health care now, and I'm back in CC for a 2nd degree. If I wanted a 4-yr degree, many of the 4-year colleges in my area accept transfer students from CC programs as long as they have decent grades.

[Dappleganger]

78. +1000

[slackmaster]

46. I attended UCSD before Greek organizations were allowed - We had Fungus Festivals

Sit-ins, and smoke-ins.

Young adults make mistakes. The best response to the Compton Cookout fiasco is to turn it into a learning experience for the ones who screwed up.

[Obamanaut]

54. A post in another thread re 'compton cookout' sums it up nicely, I think:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=7814785


“…is 25, a fifth-year senior. He swears he just wants to drink beer and have fun…”

[ZombieHorde]

57. Wait, your post does not make any sense.

We are sending 18 year olds on a 4 year all expenses paid vacation. That's literally what it has become.

Versus...

Of course these suckers who have no business at a university are are being taken by the banks.... and that's why I call it a scam. Many of these morons will graduate 50-100K+ in student loan debt. and Thus they will be in debt for decades.

[cecilfirefox]

58. As a young person attending the University of Kansas,

I get what you're saying- I really do. In fact, I can think of some worthless snots that have been in this school. Douchebag Dave was a frat boy(I have friends that would call them fraggits, which although I am gay I still think is a funny word) that lived on the floor of my dorm. He and his friends were loud, he would get drunk and act crazy violent towards people(scaring the hell out of the girls on the other wing), and I'm pretty sure he and his friends defaced my door with anti-gay words(Including FAG carved into wood), and probably was amongst the game that put seminal fluid on my door knob... Really, I get what you're saying, honestly. But quit making rash generalizations about people, not all frat boys and sorority girls are the same.(FYI, funny Sorority girl put down is Sorowhore, it makes me giggle) In fact, I am a member of the Student Senate here(Student Government) and a lot of its members are in fraternities and sororities, even the ones I don't like, and essentially all of them are hard working students. You're kinda brushing us all, man.

Also, douchebag Dave was eventually to loud and kicked out of the dorm. And screwed up University Housing policy just moves him to another dorm on campus- although he lived with his sister and opted not to go. See, he was punished! The truly worthless do in fact get whats due to them.

Now to go worry about that Math test Thursday...

- Cecilfirefox

[Ikonoklast]

62. Glad it isn't up to you to decide.

Real right-wing stance taken there, you know.


Don't want those stupid kids messing up the grade curve.


Like that slow learner Einstein.

[Tailormyst]

64. So who should be prevented from a higher education?

What would you base the criteria on?

[Name removed]

65. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

66. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

68. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Hello_Kitty]

70. Oh, you must be "important" too.

You know, like those highly educated Wall Street bankers.

:puke:

[Taitertots]

74. There are very few Wall Street Bankers and a great deal of

Main street bankers. Do you think you know how to run bank? Are you going to manage your retirement by yourself?

Did you ever get a home loan? Car loan? Credit Card?
There are highly educated people who make sure you can get a house, a car, and an education if you want it.

[Hello_Kitty]

80. And without "unimportant" people doing their "unimportant" jobs there'd be no money for the banks

[Taitertots]

84. Who said they were unimportant?

The importance of your work doesn't transfer to the quality of the person doing it. You are NOT your job. There is a great deal of unimportant work done by awesome people.

The work done by doctors, nurses, or teachers is very important. The work done by wall street elites, lobbyists, and speculation investors is not. A most all jobs fall somewhere in between.

[xultar]

67. [phone] miilion trillion gazillion brazillion billion...ROFL

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

69. Agreed

[Taitertots]

73. Seems like not everyone agrees n/t

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

71. Curious logic you've got there....

So because a pack of white frat boys did something despicable, you're arguing that we should RAMP UP the requirements to get into college. Do you understand that the principle beneficiaries of open enrollment programs have been poor and minority students who had been shut out of college for generations?

The result of your solution would be to do the one thing that the idiots at the Compton Cookout would like to see.

How about we just throw the miscreants out of school and let it go at that?

[Taitertots]

72. College graduates have dramatically higher average incomes

They end up with little more in debt than if they bought a car. The much higher wages cover the expense in a few years.

Have you ever been to college? If you don't do the work and pass the tests, you will fail. Why block disproportionately low income and minority students when the evidence shows they succeed just as well once at college? Expanding education opportunities to everyone willing to try should be a goal, not a problem.