As weak and corrupt as the Democrats may be, defeat for them is a victory for the GOP

[Ardent15]

I share the anger of those who are furious with Obama for his lack of support for progressive policies. But are we really going to punish the Democratic Party to make ourselves feel better in the short-term?

The Republican Party is still strong enough to make a comeback. They did not die. Far from it. And what's worse, they have moved further and further to the right.

Many who were angry with Clinton and Gore voted for Nader in 2000, or sat out the election. Look how that turned out.

The GOP base can be depended on to vote for the Republican nominee, for the most part. They don't have the same problem as the Democrats. As Will Rogers said, "I'm not a member of any organized political party. I'm a Democrat."

I can see the argument that someone like Nader would have been a better representation of progressive values than Gore. But do we really want to deny Democrats their votes? Because the end result is that Republicans win.

We have a two-party system in the U.S. government, and I don't see any changes to that any time soon. And for those who really think that the two parties aren't that different....just compare someone like John Kerry to someone like Jim DeMint.

I know this likely won't be a popular post, but I don't care.

[NRaleighLiberal]

1. Absolutely! K&R

[Hannah Bell]

2. i don't believe the democratic party is weak. the party is strong.

the legislators within it, its leadership, etc. -- a different matter.

[Ardent15]

4. That's what I meant. NT

[Hannah Bell]

12. yep, not aimed at you in particular. just wanted to say it.

when obama was elected he had a huge body of enthusiastic supporters, willing to volunteer for the party, just waiting to be organized to do something.

pissed it all away.

[baldguy]

3. I've always said that, yes Democrats are corrupt.

But while you can always count on a Dem to steal candy from a baby, you can expect a Republican to steal the baby.

[Toasterlad]

5. President Palin Thanks You

Yet more "Republicans! Boo!" shit from DLC types who have nothing better to offer then that Democrats might be slightly less awful than Republicans.

Until the Democrats start working for the people, they will deserve every loss they get, and America will be absolutely no worse off with a Republican in charge. Witness how absolutely nothing has changed from Bush's America since Obama took office.

"It's only been a year!" I know. I remember when it had only been three months, then six, then nine. And I've seen absolutely nothing to make me believe that you people won't be saying, "He's only had one term!" in November, 2011.

But you'll be right, regardless.

[Ardent15]

6. "Witness how absolutely nothing has changed from Bush's America since Obama took office."

Are you fucking serious?

[redqueen]

10. LOL

Yep!

Things will get *better* after we hand control back to the GOP, don'tchaknow?

Not sure how long it's supposed to take before things start getting better... but... yeah.

[Name removed]

26. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[redqueen]

28. So you honestly think things wouldn't be any worse if the GOP was in charge again.

Riiiiiiiiiiight.

[Atticus]

19. "America will be absolutely no worse off with a Republican in charge."

WHO will Sarah be thanking?

You know, it is definitely possible to disagree with the OP without resorting to this divisive snarky name-calling---"DLC types", etc.

You mischaracterized what the OP said and then piled on your own exaggerations. Your statement(quoted in the title of this response) is so extreme that, if you mean it, I wonder about your purpose in continuing to post here.

I'm not sure I agree with the OP's ultimate conclusion, but it does raise some valid points and much of what it said should be considered by any responsible Democrat.

[Toasterlad]

27. I Am An Independent

I post here because there are enough true Progressives to make it worthwhile. But even as a registered Independent, I am still far more of a Democrat than Barack Obama, not to mention many of the posters on this site.

DLC types in only name-calling if you believe it to be an insult to follow the DLC. Since you appear to be insulted, there might be hope for you. But the first thing you have to do is to stop sticking up for sheep who'll baa their lines mindlessly as part of the corporate plan to keep this country firmly under the thumb of the ONE true political party we have.

[Zoeisright]

29. Tell that to people benefiting from stem cell research.

God, how unbelievably stupid.

[Toasterlad]

33. Wow, I Guess That Means Obama's The Most Progressive President EVER!

He reversed one policy that that bible-thumping idiot had implemented! That totally makes up for escalating the war in Afghanistan, keeping our troops in Iraq, giving billions to corporate execs, maintaining torture facilities around the world, leaving Guantanamo Bay open, firing GLBT servicemen, caving ballessly on health care, and making secret deals with pharmaceutical companies to deny us cheap drugs!

Stupid's the word, alright.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

7. That worked on me in 2004 -

and 2008.

Not anymore, though. :(

[MindandSoul]

8. I think you make a lot of sense!

And your comparison to the 2000 election is a great reminder not to throw out the baby with the bathwater!

[DJ13]

9. Accept our shortcomings because the other side could be worse?

That will make a really long bumper sticker.

[Atticus]

20. How about: "Warts and all, we're better." nt.

[TheWatcher]

34. It's like a choice between two Abusive Spouses.

You have to decide if it's better to get punched in the face or beaten with a Baseball Bat.

The United States Of Stockholm.

[hulka38]

11. Doing the right thing (passing a PO, a CFPA for financial reform...) for Americans

and America was within their power. They chose not to enact real reform. They've taken the money of the special interests and they are acting accordingly. At some point, as difficult as it was, I had to acknowledge this truth. The Dems are playing the same game as the Republicans. Winning that game does not mean that Americans win. It means the corporations that are undermining America win. We don't win until we shut off the lights, take the ball and break this game up.

[MadHound]

13. It's a heads they win, tails we lose situation.

We vote in Democrats, we continue these abysmal policies, albeit with a kinder, gentler face. If the GOP gets voted in, we continue these abysmal policies, albeit in a more harsh, in your face manner.

The thing is, these abysmal policies will continue. We need to break that pattern, establish a new paradigm, and to do that we need to look outside this same old corporately corrupt two party system.

[customerserviceguy]

25. You could say that about passing this abysmal excuse for HCR

Either way, it's lose-lose. Rethugs will spend from the day of passage to Election Day with the "jammed it through" meme, and if it loses, they will spout the "ineffective" line.

While it seems to some that it would be better to do something than nothing, is this giveaway to the health insurance companies worth it? Wouldn't it be better to have been seen as right back in 2009 and 2010, when it comes time to replace the reich-wingers in 2012?

[asdjrocky]

14. I will no longer chose the lesser of too evils or vote from a position of fear.

Period. I can always find something better to do on election day.

If they refuse to represent the People, I refuse to support them.

[Wardoc]

15. We are going to punish the Democratic Party because they lied and failed us. And it is long term...

benefit to do so now, rather than to set the standard that everything can be compromised over and over just to win elections so that the SOS can start up once again.

No more lesser of two evils. No more hold the nose and vote. No more sell out after sell out and then we come vote for them anyway. No, if we vote for them we endorse what they did and I will not be part of that and there are damn many out there that agree.

The only way to change the party is to draw a line in the sand and say if you don't hold it then we will not vote for you and there will be a direct retribution. We MUST establish consequences or we will always be the first ones sold out.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

16. We will always have a 2 party (sort of) system as long as we keep voting for it.

As for me, I owe no fealty to any party and will vote for who will represent my principles best. Like these guys suggested:

"I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever, in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else, where I was capable of thinking for myself. Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent. If I could not go to heaven but with a party, I would not go there at all." Thomas Jefferson to Francis Hopkinson, 1789.

"Were parties here divided merely by a greediness for office,...to take a part with either would be unworthy of a reasonable or moral man." Thomas Jefferson to William Branch Giles, 1795.

“Always vote for principle, though you may vote alone, you may cherish the sweetest reflection that your vote is never lost." John Quincy Adams

[Q3JR4]

17. That excuse is why nothing will change.

When you vote for a political party not because they represent your interests but because they're "better" than the other guys, you give them license to ignore whatever you want from them.

After all why should they care what you want if your vote is a given?

Q3JR4.

[mikehiggins]

18. Fine. Now compare someone like this President and the last one

I know it is heresy but IMHO the major improvement has been the replacement of Dick Cheney.

Wars? Still on.

Renditions? Still going on.

Guantanamo? Still operating.

Health care? Emasculated, disemboweled and carrying an unbeleiveable mandate.

And that's just a few.

Change we can beleive in? Not any more.

[subterranean]

21. I think we should ask ourselves this question:

Has my Congressperson or Senator done enough to earn my vote? Do I agree with their positions and actions on MOST of the issues that are important to me? If the answer is yes, work to get them re-elected. If not, support a more progressive challenger, if there is one, in the primaries.

I think that's a more constructive approach than painting all Democrats with the same brush because a few have stood in the way of progressive reforms, or because the President hasn't lived up to our expectations.

[Atticus]

22. Well, that certainly makes sense. Is that allowed? nt

[Edweird]

23. Here's the catch. The Dem party has also moved to the right. Supporting them

gives this rightward march our tacit approval. Our Dem party is somewhere to the right of Nixon right now. Something has to change.

[TexasObserver]

24. I'll vote Democrat in the general if the nominee is a yellow dog.

I've held my nose to vote Democratic many times.

[cliffordu]

30. K&R

[mmonk]

31. No Blue Dogs for me.

Hopefully the "centrists" will get the message and retire. I really don't see why those should stay. If someone is going to block change or won't help us, it doesn't matter what their affiliation is.

[frustrated_lefty]

32. Posts like this pop up all the time, and they're old.

I loathe the republican agenda, and will not vote for any of its representatives. That does NOT mean I will categorically vote for any shmuck who hangs a "D" by their name. Quite a few of those "D's" are indistinguishable from their supposed opponents.

Not voting for a representative who fails to represent your ideals is not some childish form of punishment. It's a simple statement that your ideals are not being represented.

Rather than chastising the constituents for having beliefs, you might chastise the representatives who fail to do their job and ignore the people they represent.

[old mark]

35. rec. You are right - the Dems will need our support in November. If you hate it now,

you would hate it worse it the GOP came back. I don't know how many more republican regimes our country can survive, especially with the current know-nothing assholes running the GOP.
It goes way, way beyond our feelings or ego problems.

Remember, these people consider McCain a Liberal!!!!

mark

[deacon]

37. Absolutely. The alternative is terrifying. If people can't see the clear distinction

between the Dems and the GOP by now they have been assimilated by the MSM propaganda.

[deacon]

36. I think we see a GOP party headed for extinction. Between the palin tea party thing, thier eye

opening, jaw dropping failure at the health care summit, voting no on everything, bunning gone wild - if they wanted a new image after the last election, they've certainly achieved it. They're insane.

[Bluenorthwest]

38. Deny them 'their votes'? Just how many votes do they have,

each? What sort of American thinks of the people's votes as belonging to others? Conservative, DLC and GOP types, that is who. Deny them their votes? Their votes?!?!?!?
Let us compare Obama to Cheney. Obama has now done or covered up for all of Cheney's crimes, so he owns them all. In addition, Obama is an anti gay bigot, pounding the pavement with evangelicals and calling Americans families 'sinners' and unworthy of rights. Because of his superstitions. So you know what? Cheney wins that ethics race, hands down. Cheney. Obama comes our behind him, ethically challenged and dripping with bigotry. But of course, you probably dig the anti minority stands. All conservative and all.

Deny them their votes indeed. You have the mind of a serf.