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Bunning is faux filibustering, getting away with it, and the Dems aren't forcing a REAL filibuster?

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DainBramaged Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-01-10 10:20 PM
Original message
Bunning is faux filibustering, getting away with it, and the Dems aren't forcing a REAL filibuster?
We should just be ashamed of our gutless leadership, ashamed. Harry Reid should be thrown out of leadership NOW.
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Ozymanithrax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-01-10 10:31 PM
Response to Original message
1. What Harry should do is actually force them to take a vote...
But it is still a real fillibuster. because a vote is necessary to uphold it or ignore it.
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alfredo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-01-10 10:37 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. I think Reid is letting the Reps twist in the wind for a day
or two. There will be a vote soon. I don't think the Reps want to be seen shutting down government again.
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Better Believe It Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-01-10 10:39 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. It's letting the unemployed twist in the wind while the Democrats diddle around and

permit a pretend filibuster to proceed.
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alfredo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-01-10 11:03 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. I think the workers know that they will be brought back
with back pay. The Republicans started to crumble Sunday. Today they seemed to be backing away from Bunning. The vote will happen this week.
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Oregone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-01-10 11:19 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. "But it is still a real fillibuster"
Can you find any applicable definition of the term "filibuster" that would indicate that the threat of its use is in itself an actual "filibuster".

I can threaten to kill you, but that doesn't make me a murderer, correct?

What I see is:

–verb (used without object)
.U.S. Politics. to impede legislation by irregular or obstructive tactics, esp. by making long speeches.

Nothing is impeded through any process here, because nothing is attempted.
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Better Believe It Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-01-10 11:30 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. And I can claim to be shooting you by handing you a note saying that I'm shooting you!

That would be just like the pretend "procedural" filibusters where some Republican Senator gives Senator Reid a note saying he/she is filibustering on their way out of the Senate chamber.
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Roselma Donating Member (297 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-01-10 11:49 PM
Response to Original message
7. There are politics
at play here.

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2010/03/again-with-the-cots.html#more

Again with the Cots?

by Jonathan Bernstein

Joe Klein wants to know why the Democrats didn't "bring out the cots" and force a "live" filibuster on Jim Bunning last week.

Asked and answered: because it wouldn't have done any good. In fact, this well-reported story by David Dayen (via one of Klein's commenters) explains exactly how this works...the Democrats could have defeated Bunning alone by attrition, but once other Republicans proved willing to support him, there was no longer any point to continuing except as a public relations maneuver.
(full article at the link above)
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upi402 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-02-10 04:00 AM
Response to Reply #7
10. public relations epic fail again
Yet again, our fearless leaders tuck nuts and cluck all the way back to the bank. They could've backed the Rethug down and had a media win for once.

We got some crazy dry powder by now.
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Newest Reality Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-02-10 02:01 AM
Response to Original message
8. My salient quesiton ...
and one that should be on the tip of many of our tongues -- especially those who dub themselves progressive and liberal -- is, "What in the heck are we educating our young for, now?" Oh heck, these days, you don't have to dub yourself anything and I take that back. You are you amongst the we who are we's and I can't find a damn thing that is normal anyway, so why pretend? But I digress, and so do you with me, but I think you know what I mean?

Really! What are we educating our kids to be, do, become, find? How many of you find yourselves as obsolete as myself and my peers, thanks to the new, improved butter churn of endless growth and change that is so much better than before if only you are not replaced by it somehow, you lucky dog?

I don't want, at all, to sound condescending, (or, you may argue, I might) but is anyone paying attention to the current, chaotic nature of our time-stream here? Most of us elders don't even know what the Bush we should retrain for when we have lost our sanctioned means for validity in this self-reformatting, elite-serving culture we find ourselves incarnated in.

We can harp on that cushy, seemingly valuable platform of education because it was something most of us grew-up within. You know, back then when we could kind of throw a dart at a map of where education might lead in the sense of self-esteem, sustenance, continuity and our place in this churning flux of emerging interactions.

Now, just what would you seriously prepare students for with a straight face, considering your good sense of things as they currently are? Oh, sure, they should be able to walk, communicate, calculate, interact, etc., but apart from the model of molding, (not truly educating, expanding and enlightening) children to fit into a corporately designed model of reality, what do we have to offer High School graduates at large, let alone College grads who may have had a great time while being exposed to some potentially mind-expanding eclectic ideas and knowledge while they managed to forestall entering the desertification of the workforce with their extra large burden of debt strapped to their financial ankle?

We have very little to offer them now factually and realistically on a massive scale. That's failure. It is failure especially when we are espousing the value of traditional, run-of-the-mill education in the middle of a global, artificially induced crises that is turning our collective World on it's ear.

I am not anti-education. I am certainly opposed to education that exists within the context of a larger, mass-produced ignorance that proves itself to be, ultimately, hypocritical and short-sighted, especially when it comes from a preceding generation that had access to both education and had a better chance of finding a viable application of it in terms of a vocation and livelihood ... though the deck has always been stacked in the numbers game agains the masses who are needed to serve the successful grads by working the "undesirable", less cushy or insecure positions. Might I add that education is not, was never, and will never be confined to classrooms and formal training programs and we might want to start fessing up to that soon. Our kids might start to love learning and see that life itself is the lecture hall. Learning is not restricted to formalized venues and trained teachers in any subject. Didn't somebody have to come up with the original ideas without a Professor or teacher to instruct? That's what we are looking for, here, or at least a combination of learning as life and instruction from experience.

So, sure, let's not just educate them, let's REALLY educate them. I mean, get back to something approximating the levels of education in America that we saw a generation or two ago. My only problem is that what we are calling education is half-assed, especially in relation to the high degree of technology and information we are swimming in today. Does anyone find that odd? The fact that we have more information and high technology at every turn should be a warning sing when we see that our progeny here are statistically coming in far behind kids in India and China in those classes, (underscore CLASSES). That's a major, academic WTF, to me!

The dumbing down is factual and continual. Our own legacy is dying, be it by our action or inaction, in a world that has obviously been going the other way. What? Well, we contribute to the idea that the institutions we entrust them to are: noble, uplifting, beneficial, altruistic, etc., etc. Or, does that sneaking suspicion prove true? They are being prepared in large numbers, for the role they are intended to play in the corporate mono-culture's wet dream come true.

Maybe it is now time to redefine just what education is, means, and accomplishes? There are many facets to it and you know, the old Scholastic view is, to me, myopic, centralized, and outdated, thought its remnants persist.

I can attest to the fact that a good, liberal education can literally open a young mind to a larger view of the world in a short time. That, in itself is valuable and worthwhile, though it does not necessarily equate with a capitalistic, directly pragmatic worth. And there is the rub! Rather than dumb our kids down or try to prepare them for what may not be, we could hope that giving them quality education for the very sake of expansion of their minds, their critical thinking, their width, breadth, and scope, would, rather than molding them into fitting automatons for business as complaint Serfs, (to make a buck and make no waves) we could empower them with knowledge that will make them non-compliant and revolutionary while it inspires them to break the bonds that have brought us to this delusional, false sense of freedom and capability that we all tend to share, just as we watch it engulf us in the darkness we have learned to deny.

Teach your children well! You may be the only one who can give them a key to their own tangible grasp on freedom and realization. Then, as you free yourself form the bondage of formalized, fit-in-the-bell-curve-mold and actually do what we can't seem to accomplish when it comes to identifying the bad guys, (we used to look for black hats) and giving them a run for their abstract concept of money. Sheesh! We are making it too easy for ourselves to be subjugated, so maybe we could unleash a vast flock of self-educated, learning beings, (our kids) on them and get better results? Or should we continue on this traditional path where they just kill time, build debt, and end-up as graduates waiting tables, doing telephone soliciting, landscaping, etc.? We do have a potential, but are we going to send them down the tube that our own, rather outdated ignorance compels us to? Yeah, we are the old fogies, but we can get with it and stop doing the program.

I am only saying this because I believe that, as entrenched in cultural realities as we may tend to get as we age we have the benefit that we have had to be more flexible than previous generations when it comes to adapting to whole-sale change in large and frequent doses. Let's use that to our advantage and apply it in our struggle to move this whole mess into something that approximates a movement of humanity for the sake of humans and not primarily as corporations and commodities for the sake of profit for a few who can only get off on owning us all as if that is what life is about in total.

Are we good to go on that?
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DainBramaged Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-02-10 03:50 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. What the hell has your diatribe to do with Jim Bunning and the Puke stains??
Or did you find this thread just appropriate to drop your stink bomb in?
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Newest Reality Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-02-10 04:19 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. Nothing personal, you know!
What ever it meant to you, it did not deliberately intend to offend your spectrum and perspective of what is sensible and non-offensive, but it did evoke you to respond, so it seems. I am not knowledgeable enough about neurochemistry, sociology and many other important and contributing factors that might have contributed to your response.

I assume that a stink-bomb diatribe that evokes a reply of that nature is telling and the nerve I hit was not the one one the chart intended when I saw it and proceeded to type.

My humble apologies for intentionally intervening in your conventional ideas behind the intent of the thread. I had no preconceived notion that offense would be taken and acted upon, but if I had, I would have censored my inane ramblings immediately, as is appropriate in the context of our current culture.

I may have had no business whatsoever dropping this here, but I assure you it was not intended for any other location and I hope there are not server penalties or any form of castigation that may follow upon my infringement of whatever values may have been broached here by my humble self.

Thanks for your input and feedback as it is most appreciated and honored in every way. So, you have my total agreement here and I offer no argument in response to your objection at all!

Thank you, and I will keep that in mind!

Would SORRY help? No, that would have to sound both trite and manipulative as well as serving to be a trite an ineffectual attempt to compensate for my departure from decorum and common sense. However, I can reasonably apologize for apologizing in such a manner and hope that it will be accepted in the spirit it was given. Your feedback is extremely valuable, you know.
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DainBramaged Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-02-10 02:50 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. WTF?
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